Contributors program/February 5, 2010


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* New projects & libraries -- teaching them Community Outreach:

* Which projects might you enjoy Mentoring below?!

* Fast Review of the 5 latest (greatest!) HW/Project Proposals -- please
  join us advocating for, and/or reviewing shortcomings of these proposals:

  #1 Testing 1.5 - Greece
  #2 English for Everybody - Santa Cruz de la Sierra, Bolivia
  #3 Testing/constructing new Sugar on top of F11 - Munich, Germany / Massachusetts
  #4 GeoGebra, world-wide mathematics software - Linz, Austria
  #5 Promotional XO - The Netherlands / Nepal

<carolruthsilver> hello
<CanoeBerry> Hiya!
<CanoeBerry> Carol: did you receive Tim's email regarding his non-XO strategy?
<carolruthsilver> sorry we scared him off -- yes.
<CanoeBerry> No worries!
<CanoeBerry> How are you?
<CanoeBerry> Can you hang out 10min until others join?
<carolruthsilver> great.  Leaving for Af prob on 13th .  yes can wait.  I am doing Rosetta Stone Farsi on other box.
* sandrat  has joined #olpc-meeting
<CanoeBerry> Sandra, hi!
<CanoeBerry> How are you?
<CanoeBerry> sandrat: you there?
<sandrat> Yes I am here
<CanoeBerry> We have 5 proposals to review fast this week, from Greece, Bolivia, Germany/Massachusetts, Austria and the Netherlands.
<CanoeBerry> Please recruit jurors on other channels while wait a few min!
<sandrat> pl
<sandrat> ok
<carolruthsilver> I will call Jim Stockford to join us.
<sandrat> can you post the project list again
* sdziallas is now known as sdziallas_afk
<carolruthsilver> Jim cannot join us, says sorry.
<CanoeBerry> At last sorry.
<CanoeBerry> Agenda is now posted and we can begin:
<cjb> hi folks
<CanoeBerry> Shall we?

[ PROJECT #1 - Testing 1.5 - Greece ]

<CanoeBerry> Project #1 is here -- please all discuss:
<CanoeBerry> Testing 1.5 - Greece
<CanoeBerry> ] 
<CanoeBerry>    Requests 1 XO 1.5 "not prototype" over undetermined months
<CanoeBerry>    Project Objectives:
<CanoeBerry>    Alpha testing, debugging, developing and getting "playing" feedback 
<CanoeBerry> from an 11-year old
* bemasc  has joined #olpc-meeting
<CanoeBerry> Contributor is well-published in our community.
<CanoeBerry> His nick is "mavrothal" on etc
<sandrat> omg 11 years old.  pretty humble then lists all his accomplishments
<sandrat> he wasnt one xo 1.5?
<cjb> I don't think it's him that's 11 :)
<CanoeBerry> Mitch Bradley sent him our way.
<cjb> or is it?
<CanoeBerry> Seems we need a bit more detail, agreed?
<carolruthsilver> What's wrong with an 11 year old?  our target demographic is about 7!
<CanoeBerry> Also XO-1.5's are not available today yet, so we have time to clarify with this gentleman (or boy).
<CanoeBerry> Agreed, but his proposal needs beefing up, no?
* KChristophD  has joined #olpc-meeting
* Blaketh ( has joined #olpc-meeting
<CanoeBerry> Welcome All!
<KChristophD> CanoeBerry: hi
<cjb> carolruthsilver: there's nothing wrong, I just think he's an adult talking about how he'll get playtesting from a separate 11 y-o
<CanoeBerry> Should this 11-year get the very 1st production XO-1.5? :)
<KChristophD> CanoeBerry: just e-mailed the GeoGebra guy
<CanoeBerry> KChistophD: thx, that's project #4 and we're on #1 now, let's make it quick.
<sandrat> It's always good to get the proposer to set some specific goals. Is that likely for Yioryos CB?
<CanoeBerry> All: Conclusions/Votes Please
<sandrat> +1
* dristi  has joined #olpc-meeting
<cjb> +1, he's been a sustained contributor
<CanoeBerry> sandrat: Please don't use his name in public in case he's 11 years old.
<CanoeBerry> Use his nick only: mavrothal
<sandrat> oops
<bemasc> This is just a miscommunication.
<CanoeBerry> Objections?
* culseg_  has joined #olpc-meeting
<cjb> bemasc: I think so too
<tsakore> sorry to interupt but 11 years old is my son (alias for mavrothal)
<cjb> but it doesn't affect my +1
<carolruthsilver> no
<cjb> oh, ok :)
<carolruthsilver> vote 1+, no objection
<CanoeBerry> tsakore: we're voting on your project, can you provide a bit more detail before we finalize?
<CanoeBerry> Quickly?
<tsakore> what would you ke to now
<tsakore> ?
<CanoeBerry> What is your testing agenda and where will you provide feedback and how.
<tsakore> sorry typing on XO :)
<culseg_> +1 for number 1 for 2XOs if useful, appears to be a prolific tester
<carolruthsilver> agree, 2 XO-1.5
<tsakore> dev list, fedora list, puppy linux and mostly olpcnews
<CanoeBerry> tsakore: contact me later so we can harmonize your testing strategy with New Zealand's, including Tim McNamara helping me work with a professional testing team in 
Sri Lanka.
<CanoeBerry> CONCLUSION: Approved.
<tsakore> OK thx
<bemasc> tsakore is not really a tester; he's an OS developer
<CanoeBerry> Onto Project #2 now...
<CanoeBerry> bemasc: OK

[ PROJECT #2 - English for Everybody - Santa Cruz de la Sierra, Bolivia ]

<CanoeBerry> Please all mentor-or-critique Proj #2 here:
<CanoeBerry> English for Everybody - Santa Cruz de la Sierra, Bolivia
<CanoeBerry> ]
<CanoeBerry>    Requests 10 XOs over 12 months
<CanoeBerry>    Project Objectives:
<CanoeBerry>    Since we are teachers and not computer experts,
<CanoeBerry>    programming our courses will take at least a year. After that and if we
<CanoeBerry>    are successful, we will start courses on other subjects.
<CanoeBerry>    Why English? The Bolivian government announced two days ago, the new
<CanoeBerry>    teaching program for Bolivia. (This government is a Socialist-Indigenous
<CanoeBerry>    supporter and is very strong now).
<CanoeBerry>    All schools in Bolivia will have to change all history books as
<CanoeBerry>    “liberal” heroes will be eliminated, replacing them with indigenous
<CanoeBerry>    martyrs and every school will have to teach 3 languages: Spanish, an
<CanoeBerry>    indigenous “originary” language (guarani for this region) and another
<CanoeBerry>    foreign language, preferably English. Laptops will be of great help as
<CanoeBerry>    we can show many other things than through a conventional lesson. If in
<CanoeBerry>    the future we can buy a projector, it will close our idea of future
<CanoeBerry>    teaching by being able to show films, videos, etc.
<CanoeBerry>    We have been contacted by people who represent the future local
<CanoeBerry>    authorities in order to know more about our project and we have full
<CanoeBerry>    support from whoever wins.
<dristi> Hi sorry I'm late; here this Yama's?
<sandrat> not sure what the submitter means by programming courses.  Are they developing activities ?
<KChristophD> sandrat: my thoughts exactly
<CanoeBerry> Please read the full application here:
<sandrat> do they need programming skills for their goals
<CanoeBerry> The applicant is not named Yama.
<cjb> > Our plans are to program an English Course for Primary, Middle and High
<cjb> School students.
<carolruthsilver> This is like Tim in Tanzania, -- there is nothing constructivist, but maybe it is good anyway.
<KChristophD> CanoeBerry: have they been in touch with yama?
<sandrat> I love the project, but not sure why they can't start sooner with some curriculum
<culseg_> is Yama still active and is he playing a role in this project?
<CanoeBerry> KChristophD: no idea :)
<CanoeBerry> culseg_: No sure!
<cjb> haven't heard much from Yama lately
<bemasc> Curriculum development is one of the canonical purposes of the contributors' program.
<bemasc> no evidence of Yama in the ticket.
<sandrat> don't think they should restrict themselves to just english.  Other remakes of social history wud be good candidates
<CanoeBerry> Applicant has renamed us "OCPC", is that One Construct* Per Child?
<sandrat> they do mention XO work with other subjects .. good
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<cjb> shall we mail Yama to ask what he thinks and if he wants to work with them?
<bemasc> Frankly, the whole thing seems pretty hazy to me.
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<CanoeBerry> Becky: welcome!
<cjb> if we don't get a reply, then we could make a decision ourselves
<CanoeBerry> Orange-Sienna-92: welcome and please introduce yourself!
<cjb> we would need a mentor in any case
<KChristophD> cjb: +1 on that proposal
<carolruthsilver> If Curriculum deevelopment is a good purpose,  why not approve?
<bemasc> I have no evidence that they have any idea what they are doing.
<dristi> Yama has had big problems with customs in Bolivia
<CanoeBerry> Caryl has been very active mentoring Bolivia projects too.
<bemasc> It's not clear, for example, that the know what it means to program a computer.
<bemasc> they
<sandrat> I'd like a little more perspective on XO specifically articulated int the project
<CanoeBerry> I'd like to defer to Caryl or Yama, others opinion?
<dristi> How will the project leaders intend to get the contrib laptops in?
<CanoeBerry> Conclusions?
<sandrat> I'd like Carol or Yama to work with applicant and see it again
<KChristophD> postpone decision
<cjb> let's note dristi's question, too
<dristi> Agree!
<cjb> they should be prepared to pay customs fees for the laptops
<cjb> if they have to
<CanoeBerry> dristi has the magic touch putting XO's in her stockings..
* Orange-Sienna-92  Quit (Client Quit)
<dristi> Thanks
<CanoeBerry> OK
<cjb> for that reason alone, it may be a good idea to start less ambitious, with 3-5 laptops
<carolruthsilver> defer -- to another day. Onward.
<cjb> so that they find out what the story with customs is
<CanoeBerry> motion: Let's make these 2 recommendation to Bolivia experts like Caryl/Yama, OK
<CanoeBerry> Objections?
* rdyrussia  Quit (Client Quit)
<sandrat> no
<cjb> no
<CanoeBerry> Calling once..
<CanoeBerry> Calling twice..
<dristi> good plan
<CanoeBerry> Calling thrice..
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<carolruthsilver> no no obj, ok
<sandrat> sorry for my ignorance : what is F11
<CanoeBerry> CONCLUSION: Defered until Caryl/Yama or other XO/Bolivia expert refines.
<CanoeBerry> Onto Project #3.
<KChristophD> sandrat: Fedora 11
<sandrat> OK

[ PROJECT #3 - Testing/constructing new Sugar on top of F11 - Munich, Germany / Massachusetts ]

<KChristophD> project #3 is an easy yes IMO
<CanoeBerry> Please all help mentor/critique:
<CanoeBerry> Testing/constructing new Sugar on top of F11 - Munich, Germany / 
<CanoeBerry> Massachusetts
<CanoeBerry> ]
<CanoeBerry>    Requests 1 XO over 2 months
<CanoeBerry>    Project Objectives:
<CanoeBerry> ?
<sandrat> seems necessary; great project go ahead
<bemasc> ok, next
<cjb> what does.. oh
<CanoeBerry> But let's talk about what Dogi is working on if he's here?
<CanoeBerry> Dogi took the XO 2 days ago on Wedn.
<CanoeBerry> Any suggestions for Dogi quick here?
<cjb> I don't understand what the project means, but it's ok
<cjb> let's move on
<CanoeBerry> dogi: if you read this later please clarify for cjb & all of us.
<CanoeBerry> Onto Project #4.

[ PROJECT #4 - GeoGebra, world-wide mathematics software - Linz, Austria ]

<CanoeBerry> Please all help mentor/critique:
<CanoeBerry> GeoGebra, world-wide mathematics software - Linz, Austria
<CanoeBerry> ]
<CanoeBerry>    Requests 2 XOs over 6 months
<CanoeBerry>    Project Objectives:
<CanoeBerry>    Sugarize GeoGebra to run on the OLPC XO 1.5 laptops under SugarOS. We
<CanoeBerry>    already have contacts to SugarLabs (Walter Bender et al.) and they
<CanoeBerry>    will help us with Java support. This will involve adaptations of the
<CanoeBerry>    user interface of GeoGebra to work with the security system and
<CanoeBerry>    journal of SugarOS. Support of collaboration features could be a
<CanoeBerry>    follow-up project.
<cjb> this looks interesting, but it's the first time I've heard of proposed Java bindings to Sugar
<sandrat> this is an important project and needs support and approval -
<cjb> so either there are plans to make them that I've just never seen, or there has been a miscommunication about whether they're going to exist
<KChristophD> as mentioned earlier I e-mailed Markus, the GeoGebra project lead, and will try meet up with him in Linz next week
<KChristophD> cjb: good points
<bemasc> Their reason for wanting XOs is "to make sure that the
<bemasc> integration will work flawlessly and that (Java) performance is ok on
<cjb> getting Java to run gtk2/dbus/collaboration/journal is a massive project in itself
<bemasc> the real hardware."
<CanoeBerry> walterbender spent time (on the phone i think??) this morn with this group, and seems happy this is forcing the issue on Java support.
<bemasc> That's true, but as cjb says, they've got a lot of work to do before performance optimizations.
<cjb> bemasc: the claim is that they're sugarizing their activity
<cjb> as it stands, I think that claim is false or misunderstood
<jpritikin> we have java compilers like gcj and vmkit that make java pretty similar to C
<bemasc> cjb: possibly the tense is wrong.
* carolruthsilver  Quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout))
<cjb> jpritikin: sure, but then the proposal should be "I will write and test gtk2/dbus/telepathy/whatever bindings for Java"
<cjb> and it will take a year
<cjb> and it will be very impressive if it succeeds
<bemasc> well, you can make "loose bindings" pretty fast with a wrapper script, a la sugarize.c
<jpritikin> cjb: granted
<CanoeBerry> How much more time do we need here?
<cjb> bemasc: ok.  so maybe when they say sugarize, they don't mean journal or collaboration integration.
<bemasc> I think if we give them XOs, it's as encouragement, not out of necessity.
<bemasc> cjb: sugarize.c does permit journal integration.  My Wine activites are journal-integrated!
<cjb> ah, ok
<sandrat> seems worthwhile getting the information on their work whether it suceeds or fails
<CanoeBerry> 2 XO's is OK with me, even if their project direction later changes?
<sandrat> +1
<KChristophD> +1
<bemasc> collab via telepathy is a bit harder, but it can all be done through dbus, and there are dbus-java bindings.
<cjb> CanoeBerry: I think the question is whether it's valuable for us to have software that runs on an XO that is not really a Sugar activity
<dristi> +1
<cjb> or rather, whether it's valuable for OLPC to sponsor that
<CanoeBerry> O wait, they seem to want 2 XO-1.5's right?
<KChristophD> cjb: OLE Nepal
<CanoeBerry> That was the gist of the 1st email this morning I thought I received via Walter anyway.
<KChristophD> does Flash atm and I would say it is very valuable
<cjb> I'd be delighted if they said "we want our code to run on the XO, so we're going to port it to gtk2/python", like most people do
<CanoeBerry> In any case..
<cjb> KChristophD: I don't understand, sorry
<culseg_> +1 add up for me and I do remember another Java math program that was more XO age appropriate
<CanoeBerry> Let's give this 2 more min -- I have to go to NYC for Haiti events.
<KChristophD> cjb: saying that OLE Nepal has done almost all their stuff in Flash and I think it is very useful even though it's not a Sugar activity written in python
<cjb> well, I guess I'm -1, because I think they think they're applying to do something that they can't actually do
<bemasc> cjb: writing a java activity for Sugar really isn't as hard as you think, if you enjoy D-Bus.
<bemasc> all of the Sugar API is now accessibly through D-Bus
<bemasc> accessible
<CanoeBerry> Do we trust KChristophD as a co-mentor even though he works for OLPC News? ;)
<cjb> do they enjoy dbus?
<KChristophD> CanoeBerry: :P
<cjb> we don't know.  they probably don't know what dbus is, because they haven't thought very heard about what it means to sugarize something.
<bemasc> right
<culseg_> he can take dbus there to help them!
<cjb> culseg_: :)
<CanoeBerry> Let's get a rough consensus here.
<CanoeBerry> I say take the risk.
<CanoeBerry> bemasc: ?
<bemasc> CanoeBerry: It doesn't cost me anything to send them laptops.
<CanoeBerry> Calling once..
<CanoeBerry> Calling twice..
<culseg_> fine for me (and I will look for related geo-math Java program)
<CanoeBerry> Calling thrice..
<dristi> i'm lost too technical for me to weigh in but isn't much risk +1
* newnick  has joined #olpc-meeting
<CanoeBerry> Conclusion: Let these ambition folks run with 2 XO's, or even Xo-1.5's if we can must some such.

[ PROJECT #5 - Promotional XO - The Netherlands / Nepal ]

<CanoeBerry> Onto Project #5 -- please all mentor/critique:
<CanoeBerry> Promotional XO - The Netherlands / Nepal
<CanoeBerry> ]
<CanoeBerry>    Requests 1 XO over undetermined months
<CanoeBerry>    Project Objectives:
<CanoeBerry>    The objective of the project is: Computer supported education within the
<CanoeBerry>    primary school in Serachour, Nepal based on a sustainable model.
<CanoeBerry>    Deliverables:
<CanoeBerry>    The following deliverables are addressed:
<CanoeBerry>    • 40 XO´s used and working at the primary school of Serachour
<CanoeBerry>    • A working infrastructure (internet, school server, electricity)
<CanoeBerry>    • Trained teachers and children
<CanoeBerry>    • A self supporting and self learning school based on local parties (=
<CanoeBerry>    sustainable)
<CanoeBerry>    • Connection with the existing Nepali educational platform, OLE Nepal
<CanoeBerry>    and teachers of other schools
<CanoeBerry> Sorry that's 1 XO for 5 months.
<cjb> I can't tell whether they're buying XOs or getting CP ones, or how many CP ones they're asking for.
<CanoeBerry> 5+ months.
<KChristophD> do I understand that correctly and he wants to use that XO for fund raising?
<CanoeBerry> A bit confusing yeah.
<sandrat> This is a request for 1 XO for 5 months:  Objective doesn't say what the 1 XO will be used for - is it to get started on a 40 laptop project
<bemasc> "Promotional XO"
<sandrat> Sounds as if submitter has funding already for the 40
<bemasc> i.e. demo to drum up $
<newnick> sorry I got lost, am back -- If they already have 40 xo's ...  maybe they want one xo 1.5
<CanoeBerry> 200 children in school raises the saturation issue too - are plans for all 200 kids in the works later?
<bemasc> nope, XO-1.
<dristi> I couldn't find the proposal in the ticket
<sandrat> ticket just says XO
<newnick> suggest that is a good use, ie drum up $.  give 2, not one, so can demo mesh.
<CanoeBerry> dristi: proposal is pasted into ticket
<sandrat> if it is to jump start a project, 1 XO for someone with he experience is a good investment
<dristi> but i am wondering how they can demonstrate anything collaborative with just one XO and no mesh?
<CanoeBerry> newnick: disfunctional mesh aside, we generally recommend 2 XO's as a minimum for collaboration in-person yes.
<KChristophD> dristi, newnick: not convinced anymore that promising mesh and collaboration is a good idea...
<newnick> newnick is me carol ruth silver./  thjanks for clarification./
<bemasc> The members of this team include veterans of OLE Nepal
<dristi> I think it is important for anyone with any knowledge of using the XOs to see 2 or 3 working together.
<bemasc> (Rabi Karmacharya)
<CanoeBerry> Personally I agree -- it forces them to involve a school mate etc and build community in their area even if just a wee bit.
<culseg_> how does this CP project relate to current OLPC efforts in Nepal?
<newnick> vote: +1 for 2 xo's.  much to do.
<dristi> because how can teachers see this feature on the XO
<sandrat> Wud be good to know if he already has the funding for the 40 submitter plans to purchase
<CanoeBerry> KChristophD: can you provide any Nepal context for this project?
<newnick> pls forgive, must go.  Bye. CRS
<KChristophD> bemasc: but the laptop is going to the netherlands, so the fine OLE Nepal folks can only be involved so much in THIS actual project
<dristi> is the funder considering other notebooks too? and how will the XO be showcased...
<dristi> to compete?
<CanoeBerry> newnick: thanks for yr help!
<KChristophD> CanoeBerry: dont know anything about this project, but they must have at least talked to OLE Nepal because they're mentioning rabi and ties
<CanoeBerry> KChristophD: any hints if an effective mentor's possible?
<CanoeBerry> Or even a very parttime one :)
<KChristophD> CanoeBerry: honestly cant say
<sandrat> I'd say approval tentative.  Submitter needs to say what  the requested XO will be used for, rather than the bigger project.
<KChristophD> sandrat: good idea
<CanoeBerry> Martin Vijn in the Netherlands referred this project to us.
<dristi> that said,  i believe small deployments spread the mission. I have ?'s but no objection to 2 XOs. I don't think just 1 is enough to showcase it
<CanoeBerry> Is sandrat's our conclusion?
<bemasc> Well, they also want to buy 40 XOs, which is impossible.
<CanoeBerry> True
<sandrat> submitter can respond to why not 2, and that can be decided if we give tentative approval
<bemasc> (but maybe they'll buy in through OLE?)
<CanoeBerry> Unless they buy 40 on eBay
<CanoeBerry> Or work like crazy soliting XO's here:
<CanoeBerry> OLPC seems to have received 1000+ redonated XOs in Texas this past week for Haiti..
<dristi> why not suggest two pilots with 50 each then they can buy 100
<dristi> because there won't be any XOs left for the Give your G!
<CanoeBerry> Time!
<CanoeBerry> Conclusions Please!
<CanoeBerry> Vote :)
<KChristophD> see sandrat's suggestion from before
<CanoeBerry> +1
<sandrat> Tentative + 1 . gotta go sorry
<dristi> 2 XO-1's +1
<CanoeBerry> Agreed.
<CanoeBerry> Last Call...
<CanoeBerry> Calling twice..
<CanoeBerry> Calling thrice..
<culseg_> +1 , tentative, plus get some local support...eightdot?
<CanoeBerry> CONCLUSION: approved for up-to-2 XO's if use strongly clarified -- and usual Contributor Project requirements: publication quasimonthly off
<CanoeBerry> culseg: great idea -- would be lovely if you could cultivate eightdot


<tsakore> CanoeBerry:How do I contact you?  You have my e-mail. Drop me a line. IRC is not my thing :)
<CanoeBerry> tsakore: reply to keeping in the subject line: #56928
<tsakore> OK
<KChristophD> CanoeBerry: have fun in NYC!
<CanoeBerry> Or on unrelated matters, use: holt @
<dristi> CanoeBerry: I need to get you the PP today
<CanoeBerry> KChristophD: thanks for bankrolling this EuroCentric meeting.
<CanoeBerry> dristi: PowerPoint kills ;) PDF, eh?
<KChristophD> CanoeBerry: was a pleasure, as always
<CanoeBerry> irc's only slightly more fun than drinking, agreed :)
<dristi> I dont understand
<KChristophD> :-D
<CanoeBerry> dristi: everyone loves to bash PowerPoint, don't listen to me
<dristi> how to you want me to send it so you can put the link up before the 12:00PM sunday meeting?
* klouddy  has joined #olpc-meeting
<CanoeBerry> dristi: i can convert your PowerPoint to PDF for you, not a problem.
<Blaketh> CanoeBerry: How are you traveling to NYC?
<CanoeBerry> Bus
<CanoeBerry> You too?
<Blaketh> Very likely.  I'm worried about the snow.
<CanoeBerry> We're trying to get a jump on it dinnertime, but lots to do before then.
<dristi> good so I can just email the thing to you?
<CanoeBerry> Haiti can't wait for sissies scared of snowflakes.
<CanoeBerry> ;)
<dristi> i know u have to go
<dristi> what time will you be in on Sunday...don't get stuck in NYC!
* KChristophD  Quit
<CanoeBerry> dristi: let's meet 11:30am Sunday
<CanoeBerry> At 1 Cambridge Center, Kendall Square, Cambridge
<dristi> ok. I'll email you my cell ph #. I'll be in Boston early!
<CanoeBerry> Keep my number handy and also look for (or post!) a paper note on the door, for all latecomers!
<CanoeBerry> 11:30am, OK?
<CanoeBerry> Cosi across the street if nec.
<dristi> I have your #'s
<CanoeBerry> Great, bye!
<dristi> Yes. but call me if you are running late
* Tan-Red-85  Quit (Quit: CGI:IRC)
<dristi> ok. you have equipment for the PP live?
<dristi> i assume so. safe progductive trip to NYC. see you sunday. bye
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