Contributors program/April 3, 2009


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   * Which projects would you enjoy Mentoring?

   * Fast review of a couple of the latest (greatest!) laptop/project proposals:

     #1 Austin Laptop Lending Library [Texas, USA]
     #2 OLPC UK / Regional XO Laptop Library Proposal
     #3 Tux Paint, wireless,, dogfooding... [AUSTRALIA]
     #4 PaintWeb, Romania w MLanghoff [ROMANIA]
     #5 Malaysian Primary School Text Book Reader
     #6 Open Learning Initiative with University of Kwazulu-Natal, Durban, South Africa
     #7 OLPC Learning Club DC: Lending library proposal (DRAFT)

   * How we can support our Library Entrepreneurs to ensure their success:

   * Your questions about FREE Hardware/Parts Returns shipping soon: (DEADLINE PASSED)


<CanoeBerry_> Meeting starts here in 5min!!
<CanoeBerry_> 6 Projects/Libraries we'll Review:
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<eightdot> .
<CanoeBerry_> Hi eightdot :)
<CanoeBerry_> How's G20 Europe?
<CanoeBerry_> Let's get started here in a couple minutes...
<CanoeBerry_> I will now paste in the 6 project titles we will review:
<CanoeBerry_> Austin Laptop Lending Library [Texas, USA]
<CanoeBerry_> #2 OLPC UK / Regional XO Laptop Library Proposal
<CanoeBerry_> #3 Tux Paint, wireless,, dogfooding... [AUSTRALIA]
<CanoeBerry_> #4 PaintWeb, Romania w MLanghoff [ROMANIA]
<CanoeBerry_> #5 Malaysian Primary School Text Book Reader
<CanoeBerry_> #6 Open Learning Initiative with University of Kwazulu-Natal, Durban, South Africa
<CanoeBerry_> Who else is here?  More hands plz!
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<lfaraone> CanoeBerry_: *raises*
<lfaraone> CanoeBerry_: I just finished my proposal *whew*.
<CanoeBerry_> Hiya lfaraone
<CanoeBerry_> Thanks! A bit late, but let's give this #7 an initial review :)
<CanoeBerry_> #7 OLPC Learning Club DC: Lending library proposal (DRAFT)
<lfaraone> CanoeBerry_: may dissapear suddenly, soon to be in class and with unstable wifi :)
<CanoeBerry_> NP lfaraone: can you help us review these 2 other libraries quick now?
<mtd> CanoeBerry_: hi, I'm here.
<CanoeBerry_> #1 Austin and #2 UK
<CanoeBerry_> mtd: welcome!
<CanoeBerry_> Let's start now.....................
<lfaraone> CanoeBerry_: possibly.


<CanoeBerry_> Who can provide reactions on #1
<CanoeBerry_> Application is for 40 laptops.
* _sj_  Quit (Connection timed out)
<CanoeBerry_> Applicant show several innovative idea, to reach out by mail and by marking
the laptops so they are colorfully associated with the library etc.
<CanoeBerry_> Keeping the laptops in circulation is an important idea/challenge here.
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<CanoeBerry_> Plz provide some reaction, so we have a quorum for approval and/or how many we should ship to Austin, TX to start what looks to be a new-kind of LLLLL (lovely local laptop-lending library!)
<Caryl_1> Having problems logging on. Had wrong link
<CanoeBerry_> Again applicant requests 40.
<Caryl_1> Re:TX  40 is too many . Start with 10 or 15
<CanoeBerry_> With Australia I proviced 25 of the 50 questinos, so I agree we should consider a lower number, perhaps 20.
<CanoeBerry_> Applicant has many educational connections in his favor.
<CanoeBerry_> More comments plz!
<CanoeBerry_> Applicant is working with a quite active community in techie Austin, TX, which should help circulation growth/experimentation.
<Caryl_1> Until a working library is happening with all the kinks worked out, 40 would be too great a risk
<CanoeBerry_> Shall i ship 20 refurbished "No Trouble Found" machines?  Plz concur/oppose.  More voices needed!
<Caryl_1> We will be starting in SoCal with 12 + any I can repair
<Caryl_1> 20  +1
<CanoeBerry_> NTF machines are very suitable for libraries in that they may get hit pretty hard.
<CanoeBerry_> Unfortunately not all NTF (No Trouble Found) machines in fact work, so I could ship a few extras, whatever number we settle ony.
<CanoeBerry_> mtd: opinion?
<Caryl_1> Who else is on the line?  Why so quiet?
<CanoeBerry_> lfaraone: opinion?
<CanoeBerry_> eightdot: opinion?
<Caryl_1> 20 is plenty
<mtd> CanoeBerry_: 20 is indeed a good number, if they're new
<Caryl_1> Maybe that will encourage a repair center if some don't work right away
<Caryl_1> Maybe include some stuff for repairs?
<mtd> CanoeBerry_: if they're refurb'd, what's the expected repair rate? if it's less than 1/5, then 40 isn't so much.
<CanoeBerry_> mtd: shall we consider 25 reburfished?
<CanoeBerry_> I would normally expect 80-90% of these to work fine.
<CanoeBerry_> *refurbished
<CanoeBerry_> Caryl_1: 25 NTF's seem reasonable?
<Caryl_1> Sounds like a good compromise.  But why wouldn't all refurbished ones be expected to work?
<CanoeBerry_> They just don't.
<CanoeBerry_> Refurbished is not reality.
<CanoeBerry_> Refurbished just means reflashed in ~7min and many fail if tested for even an hour.
<CanoeBerry_> But 80+% should (generally) work...
<Caryl_1> OK +1 to 25 refurbished
<mtd> CanoeBerry_: 25 seems good, if refurb'd and expectation is a 1/5 repair rate
<CanoeBerry_> Perfect.  Can we agree that the applicant should get 20 additional (or 25 NTF's) come summertime if he proves his model?
<CanoeBerry_> Similar to Australia.  Which coincidentally received exactly the same number (25 NTF's!)
<CanoeBerry_> OK, let's move on to #2!
<Caryl_1> Sounds like a good idea, but require really good documentation of what they are doing, problems, solutions, rate of borrowing, products etc.


<CanoeBerry_> #2 OLPC UK / Regional XO Laptop Library Proposal
<CanoeBerry_> mtd: please introduce your own initiative if you can...
<Caryl_1> I couldn't find where they said how many they were requesting
<mtd> CanoeBerry_: thanks.   We're trying to start an LLLL and Repair Centre.
<CanoeBerry_> mtd: please remind us the answer to Caryl's Q.
<mtd> This started as a refurb request, so in that section requested 10 D machines and 20 Ms.
<CanoeBerry_> How many XO Laptops are you requesting specifically for the Library?  (Not repair center right now)
<CanoeBerry_> And do you have a co-librarian to drive this forward in/around the UK?
<mtd> CanoeBerry_: for LLLL I'd like to get to 8 laptops - 4 pairs - so 4-6 laptops for now.
<CanoeBerry_> Are you considering mail shipments, and ho? Etc :)
<mtd> CanoeBerry_: we have 2 colibrarians.
<CanoeBerry_> 2 total? or 3 total?
<mtd> CanoeBerry_: 3 total
<CanoeBerry_> Great, then 8 laptops seems very reasonable.
<mtd> CanoeBerry_: their names are in the contrib proposal section.
<mtd> (I am one of them)
<Caryl_1> Again, if it goes well, we could add more in 6 mos or so?
<CanoeBerry_> Congrats on your meeting next week.  What library lending/renewal/returns/recirculation mechanics do you feel are most likely to pan out?
<mtd> Caryl_1: sorry, I missed that.  Yes, definitely.
<CanoeBerry_> I am in favor of starting with 8.
<mtd> CanoeBerry_: in terms of mechanics, the UK is small enough and the postal system good enough (still get two deliveries a day) that laptops can move safely in around 2-3 days.
<Caryl_1> who will pay the postage?
<CanoeBerry_> Applicant has shown lots of legit planning, community-organizing enthusiasm & documenting his work online/wiki for ease-of-access.
<mtd> CanoeBerry_: I will, failing OLPC UK sponsorship (which I can't promise, but think we could get consensus on)
<mtd> CanoeBerry_: at a proposed rate of circulation of 1-3 months per pair of laptops...
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<mtd> CanoeBerry_: should not be prohibitive.
<CanoeBerry_> Motion: to ship 10 NTF's (assuming 8 will actually work?)
<CanoeBerry_> Please offer your opinions on #2 here so we can move on!
<Caryl_1> +1
<CanoeBerry_> Yamaplos: opinions on UK Library?
<Yamaplos> I like it
<CanoeBerry_> They request 8 XO's and seem very well organized:
<Yamaplos> better than most :-)
<CanoeBerry_> Final voices please?
<Yamaplos> uh, thisthing transforms a smiley into words....
<CanoeBerry_> Motion approved to ship 10 NTF (No Trouble Found) to UK Laptop Library -- thx mtd for working with us here.


<CanoeBerry_> #3 Tux Paint, wireless,, dogfooding... [AUSTRALIA]
<mtd> CanoeBerry_: thanks
<mtd> thanks all
<CanoeBerry_> mtd: plz stick around for a few min to help, can you?
<Caryl_1> stick around and help with the rest?
<Yamaplos> soory got in late, was Austin matter dealt with?
<CanoeBerry_> #3 Applicant requests an MP (mass-produced) machine upgrading from his B4 prototype.
<CanoeBerry_> We should approve this by default.
<mtd> CanoeBerry_: of course
<CanoeBerry_> For #1, Applicant (who was it again ;) approved for 25 NTF's.
<Caryl_1> I suggest giving him two so he can try the mesh with the things he is working on
<Yamaplos> is there a policy to transfer the B4 to some pool?
<CanoeBerry_> With 20 new XO's (or 25 NTF's) to follow sometime summertime if followup looks great!
<CanoeBerry_> Back to #3 yes.
<Caryl_1> #3 2?
* unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
<CanoeBerry_> We should ask Australian applicant what he wants to do with his B4.  Pia's library might want it if the applicant no longer wants it.
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<CanoeBerry_> Let's approve #3 by default (standard policy) and move on to #4...
<Caryl_1> Wait!


<CanoeBerry_> #4 PaintWeb, Romania
<CanoeBerry_> Caryl_1: ?
<Caryl_1> I think we need to consider making a polocy of sendin at least 2
* Yamaplos  Quit ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
<Caryl_1> Tolks need to try the msh
<yamaplo1> Sorry, changed client IRC
<Caryl_1>  I can't type fast as you scn see
<CanoeBerry_> Caryl_1: sending at least 2 in what conditions?  Libraries or are you proposing a brand new CP policy?
<CanoeBerry_> Brand new policy discussions should follow later.
<Caryl_1> No...for indivuduals working on development of software, hardware, lessons etc
<mtd> Caryl_1: +1 to doing it pairwise
<yamaplo1> I like it that he has lined up a a mentor already.
<Caryl_1> pairwise is good
<CanoeBerry_> Please justify this (quite significant) policy change after we get thru today's proposals.
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<CanoeBerry_> We talked about this before (individuals are encouraged to connect to communities etc, but should not be penalized if they truly cannot..)
<Caryl_1> Meanwhile, can we do 2 fpr the Tuxpaint guy?
<CanoeBerry_> Caryl_1: we can't change policies with no warning and ship more than he asked for!
<Caryl_1> could we suggst he revise his request to 2?
<CanoeBerry_> Caryl_1: if you want to propose a new policy, and have others carefully consider it, and it is approved, then please also help rewrite CP web pages.
<pgf> can we ask him if he'd like another?
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<CanoeBerry_> We can ask him anything, but let's offer specific rational.
<Caryl_1> It would be a really small change.
<yamaplo1> Romania at some moment had a  bit of interest in OLPC ...  Remember having read about it a while ago
<CanoeBerry_> It's a huge change in policy.
<Caryl_1> I also thought this project ought to have 2 so they could do mesh   This will encourage the development of things that will utilize it. With one machine that is impossible.
<CanoeBerry_> If there's a specific need in this case, it needs to be rationalized.
<yamaplo1> that IS a good point, but I agree we do need to redefine policy
<yamaplo1> to the point that catual community building IS a main point
<yamaplo1> ... actual
<yamaplo1> should we go through that process (policy + ask the requestor) this week?
<yamaplo1> and go to te next case now
<yamaplo1> ?
<CanoeBerry_> Yes.  We had this argument before.  The language we ended up with is: "Teams of more than 1 person are not required, but favored!"
<CanoeBerry_> Let's argue later.
<CanoeBerry_> #3 and #4 should be approved but need mentors.
<CanoeBerry_> Do ask followup questions, and rationalize any needs for more than 1 laptop.
<Caryl_1> There's nobody here but us chickens?
<lfaraone> CanoeBerry_: sorry, i was taking a test.
<CanoeBerry_> Anybody volunteer to take #3 or #4?
<Caryl_1> OK.  If no one else wants then...I'll take them and suggest they up their requests to 2
<pgf> from my point of vew, currently working as a developer @home, having more than one laptop is a huge win.
* dwmw2 is now known as dwmw2_gone
<CanoeBerry_> Thanks Caryl_1: please provide documented explanation for how they need and will actually use 2.


<CanoeBerry_> #5: Malaysian Primary School Text Book Reader
<pgf> especially if you're doing your development on the laptop itself -- you can keep one machine relatively stable while you experiment on the other.
<Caryl_1> will do  :-)
<CanoeBerry_> Requested 1 XO Laptop for 6 months.
<yamaplo1> looks like a demo-to-others project
<yamaplo1> not that is bad per se, but, is it connected to dev?
<Caryl_1> In this case, mesh is not a factor so one would be ok.  It is not a "development" project, it is a sales pitch
<yamaplo1> I say let's make sure this guy is connected to other Malasia projects
<CanoeBerry_> For the record the (public, long) objectives are:
<CanoeBerry_> Malaysian primay schools students had to carry more than 5 text books as
<CanoeBerry_> well associated exercise books and water botles to school. Our students are
<CanoeBerry_> small in size and these text books are large for their size. These students
<CanoeBerry_> will find it a burden to carry all these school items. Many parents have
<CanoeBerry_> complained to the Education Ministry in order to find efforts to improve the
<CanoeBerry_> school time table in order to reduce the number of books to be taken to
<CanoeBerry_> school every day but the same problem remains.
<CanoeBerry_> ...
<CanoeBerry_> The main objective is therefore to use the OLPC as a primary source of all
<CanoeBerry_> the textbooks. Its light weight, large and readable screen and ruggedness
<CanoeBerry_> will make it suitable for Malaysian primary school students to use instead
<CanoeBerry_> of the heavy text books. It will be used as a demonstration model to show to
<CanoeBerry_> the Malaysian Ministry of Education to convince them to replace all text
<CanoeBerry_> books to the OLPC.
<yamaplo1> there was a lot of action recently re: Malasian Bahasa (language) in localization list
<yamaplo1> yep, it's a demoing project
<yamaplo1> current policy is to not support that, init?
<CanoeBerry_> Let's ask mythrage in Malaysia to refine this proposal, OK?
<yamaplo1> but it has possibilities if connected with actual dev, be it content or localization, right?
<yamaplo1> +1
<CanoeBerry_> (To act as a mentor, to refine this towards approval?)
<yamaplo1> I will, thoughI shouldn't
<CanoeBerry_> yamaplo1: do you want to mentor this one?
<yamaplo1> yes
<CanoeBerry_> Great!
<CanoeBerry_> mythrage (adminCC'd) will help you if you need Malaysian know-how.
<CanoeBerry_> Moving on to #6...


<CanoeBerry_> #6 Open Learning Initiative with University of Kwazulu-Natal, Durban, South Africa
<CanoeBerry_> Requests 2 XO Laptops for 12 months.
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<CanoeBerry_> Project Objectives:
<CanoeBerry_> This is part of a
<CanoeBerry_> larger project aimed at bringing ubiquitous WiFi access and Open Learning to
<CanoeBerry_> the people of eThekwini, South Africa. We are trying to set up a
<CanoeBerry_> metro-scale WiFi network for the municipality for AMR purposes. We will
<CanoeBerry_> leverage this network to allow for low cost access for lower/middle income
<CanoeBerry_> groups. This will include the development of a host of
<CanoeBerry_> services some of which are based on primary, secondary and tertiary
<CanoeBerry_> education. This includes course contect and delivery, video streaming, live
<CanoeBerry_> tutors (conferencing) etc. over WiFi The project requires hardware. We
<CanoeBerry_> are hoping to develop a local low-cost netbook and also test OLPC on the
<CanoeBerry_> network.
<Caryl_1> I read this one earlier.  I do not see a specific need for XOs in this one.  Any latop would work for what they want to do
<Caryl_1> There is another #37404 who wabts to do something similar.  I suggested he apply to the contrib program
<Caryl_1> Is theie wi-fi going to be any different than normal?  #37404 is
<lfaraone> Caryl_1: not afaic.
<lfaraone> t
<yamaplo1> looks also a bit flaky re: resources
<yamaplo1> They are also looking for funding
<Caryl_1> Ha!
<CanoeBerry_> They are ambitious but secretive about their 2010 plans..
<CanoeBerry_> For good reason possibly, but it makes it harder to judge.
<lfaraone> Looks like they are in the wrong nonprofit :)
<yamaplo1> they need to connect with something
<yamaplo1> +1
<Caryl_1> yes, I noticed that.  Secretive is not good
<yamaplo1> let's send them the way of other ZA initiatives,
<yamaplo1> especially OLPCorps
<Caryl_1> ZA?
<yamaplo1> South Africa
<CanoeBerry_> Caryl_1: can you possibly send then a quick note summarizing the above?  Saying their proposal needs to be revised/reconsidered?
* Retrieving #olpc-meeting modes...
<yamaplo1> CanoeBerry_: thanks!  real busyright now :-)
<Caryl_1> Rats!  I already took 2.  But if no one else did, I'll be the bearer of bad tidings
<CanoeBerry_> Anybody can help here. Wireless initiatives in Africa are critical.
<CanoeBerry_> Let's move onto #7 now.


<CanoeBerry_> #7 OLPC Learning Club DC: Lending library proposal (DRAFT)
<yamaplo1> OT BTW, good advance with the wifi guy in Canada I took a couple weeks back
<CanoeBerry_> lfaraone (in channel here) requests 40 XO Laptops
<yamaplo1> Beyond following procedure, I would pretty much support anything the DC Club comes with
<yamaplo1> probably the most trusty bunch of people within the community
<CanoeBerry_> The location is what?
<yamaplo1> with proven track record, etc
<lfaraone> yamaplo1: Thanks Yama.
<CanoeBerry_> 2 or 3 specific librarians needed.
<lfaraone> Ok, I listed a few names ib there.
<CanoeBerry_> Can I mention ACC?
<lfaraone> Sure.
<CanoeBerry_> Will this be the physical base?
<lfaraone> Most likely
<CanoeBerry_> Arlington Career Center is great.
<CanoeBerry_> Will people have access more than once per month?
<Caryl_1> How many machines do they already have in their library?
<lfaraone> Yes, every week at least, We have people there each day who can do the vending.
<CanoeBerry_> **
<lfaraone> Caryl_1: About 5.
<lfaraone> School is out, brb (switching to cellular)
<CanoeBerry_> lfaraone: i will mentor this.
<Caryl_1> Have they been lending those out?
<CanoeBerry_> if that's ok with you -- should we consider 25 NTF's similar to Australia & Austin?
<Caryl_1> Sounds reasonable.
<CanoeBerry_> With 20 new XO's or 25 NTF's to follow sometime summertime if progress if good?
<CanoeBerry_> (Additional units..)
<Caryl_1> Right!
<CanoeBerry_> *if progress is good
<Caryl_1> +1
<yamaplo1> +1
<CanoeBerry_> mtd: still there for some peer review?
<CanoeBerry_> Any dissenting opinions?
<mtd> CanoeBerry_: +1
<CanoeBerry_> OK, Motion Passes -- we now have 3 NEW LIBRARIES APPROVED
<CanoeBerry_> Thanks all for wrapping this up.
<yamaplo1> !!!!  :-)


<CanoeBerry_> Agenda Wrapup NOw..
<CanoeBerry_> How can we all support our respective libraries?
<CanoeBerry_> Starting here:
<Caryl_1> What are the ticket #s of the 3 I am working on?
<CanoeBerry_> But more important, keeping this conversation going offline/elsewhere.
<yamaplo1> certainly
<lfaraone> Caryl_1: yes, mike is currently lending those out at home.
<mtd> thanks all
<CanoeBerry_> Caryl_1: Start with 37145 (Tux Paint, Australia) & 37303 (PaintWeb, Romania)
<lfaraone> *his home
<Caryl_1> we are working with CUELA to set up the library here in SoCal until we get OSSIE-CUE or something like it going.  We need all the help as possible to make it painless for the librarians
<yamaplo1> I have the Malaysia, 37326
<CanoeBerry_> Caryl_1: if you can help with our 2 African wifi/ISP initiatives even better:
<lfaraone> Caryl_1: we'll be happy to share our experiences with you.
<yamaplo1> Sorry for insisting, but since I was late, did Austin Library pass?  O:-)
<CanoeBerry_> yamaplo1: yes, with 25 NTF's
<yamaplo1> !  great!
<Caryl_1> lfaraone: That would be great
<CanoeBerry_> And 20 new units (or 25 NTF's) to follow sometime summertime if Texas guns are blazin ;)
<yamaplo1> of course we'll be linking with UK and DC and AU, etc.
<CanoeBerry_> Awesome.
<yamaplo1> wonderful
<lfaraone> CanoeBerry_: thanks adam!
<CanoeBerry_> If you guys can help organically grow:
<CanoeBerry_> That would be best -- we can then give it its own page as our Inter-Library family matures?!


<CanoeBerry_> Let's Finish Now -- OK?  Meeting's gone on 75min!
<CanoeBerry_> Final Questions??
<Caryl_1> when should we discuss "pairing" for development projects
<CanoeBerry_> Proposal?
<CanoeBerry_> Spell it out please.
<Caryl_1> ???where?
<lfaraone> Caryl_1: Huh?
<CanoeBerry_> Here, email, wherever.
<CanoeBerry_> The old argument about lone cowboys is important.
<lfaraone> what do you mean by that, he said.
<Caryl_1> sg?  holt/sj?  ???
<yamaplo1> uh, it should be in the Contributors page, as a policy - or a s a policy draft, I guess
<CanoeBerry_> But we should not overly punish solitary individuals who just request 1 laptop doing great work out in their desert.
<yamaplo1> I support both sides :-)
<CanoeBerry_> For now the language remains:
<Caryl_1> I suggested all development proposals be for 2 machines to encourage encorporating the mesh in their projects
<CanoeBerry_> Teams of more than 1 person are not required, but favored!
<Caryl_1> they can run 2 XOs side by side and test mesh
<Caryl_1> in the desert
<yamaplo1> and build community....
<CanoeBerry_> If they choose.
<CanoeBerry_> We need to encourage community / meshing, but we cannot force it.
<Caryl_1> yep Invite a friend to come work with them!
<lfaraone> however some projects legitimately don't need that.
<yamaplo1> indio comido, indio ido (the indian ate, the indian left, a very non-PC expression in Bolivia)
<yamaplo1> gotta go back to my day job
<yamaplo1> thanks all!
<CanoeBerry_> Bye yamaplo1
* yamaplo1  has left #olpc-meeting
<Caryl_1> bye
<CanoeBerry_> Caryl: please propose language for the FAQ that makes clear which kind of people who consider applying for 2.
<pgf> perhaps the page could just remind developers/contributors that it's okay to ask for two -- the worst that will happen is they'll be turned down.
<CanoeBerry_> Email that to me and post to the talk page etc.
<Caryl_1> OK Will do!
<CanoeBerry_> ** Thanks pgf & all -- that's the wrap & see you next week 2PM EDT Friday **
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