Contributors program/August 21, 2009


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   * New projects & libraries -- teaching them Community Outreach:

   * Which projects might you enjoy Mentoring?!

   * Fast Review of the 2 latest (greatest!) HW/Project Proposals -- please
     join us advocating for and/or reviewing shortcomings of these proposals:

     #1 OOo4Kids project (Open Office) - France
     #2 UCSB's Cross-cultural learning activities - California, USA
     #3 New repair center in Innsbruck - Austria


<CanoeBerry> Hiya Caryl..
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<Caryl> Hi...anybody home?
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<CanoeBerry> Sorry we're starting in just a couple min..
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<CanoeBerry> :)
<ericb2> hello. Unfortunaly, I have guests at home, and I'm forced to stop, in say 10 min max
<ericb2> but I'll keep the window open :)
<dogi> hi all
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<ericb2> we are there if you have further questions, about the request for 2 XO, for students, workin on OOo4Kids sugarization
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<Caryl> Hello?  Is it working this time?
<Caryl> Yea! it is
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<CanoeBerry> Apologies we can finally start!
<CanoeBerry> Agenda should be in your inboxes now :)
<Caryl> I'm at 2 meetings at the same time! This one and the Vyew webinar
<CanoeBerry> Direct link is here..
<dogi> hi adam
<CanoeBerry> Ciao.
<CanoeBerry> Hola!
* dogi and my brother are in chinatown nyc
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<CanoeBerry> Hi Dogi's Brother!
<CanoeBerry> Shall we begin?
<dogi> +1
<CanoeBerry> eribb2: sorry for the delay, let's start with France now OK?
<CanoeBerry> ericb2: see above
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[ PROJECT #1 : OOo4Kids project (Open Office) - France ]

<CanoeBerry> Welcome sverma * neton.  OK, here is Project #1:
<CanoeBerry> Please help review this now:
<CanoeBerry> OOo4Kids project (Open Office) - France
<CanoeBerry>    Requests 2 XO's over 5 months
<CanoeBerry>    Project Objectives:
<CanoeBerry>    Our objectives are, in a first time make Ooo4Kids work well on the XO,
<CanoeBerry>    then discover Sugar in order to sugarize Ooo4Kids. After this, we will
<CanoeBerry>    work on some optimisations with some other goals: make two improvements
<CanoeBerry>    of performances for Ooo4Kids on sugar and two new features on the user
<CanoeBerry>    interface (one per student).
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<CanoeBerry> Bronze-Jade-59: welcome and please introduce yourself.
<CanoeBerry> We're now reviewing the 1st of this week's 3 project proposals here:
<nteon__> part of the reason they are requesting laptops is to learn sugar, apparently they haven't tried it out from their distro or jhbuild?
<CanoeBerry> ericb2: can you respond to the question?
<Twarz> If you allow me, I can - I am one of the two students concerned
<CanoeBerry> Merci!
<CanoeBerry> Twarz: go ahead
<nteon__> Twarz: please go on
<Twarz> So, I've already tried Sugar using the Sugar on a Stick distribution - it works well, I've become much more familiar with the environment, but it of course has it's limitations
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<Twarz> My main goal was to compile and try to run OOo4Kids on this distribution, using an external hard drive, and I've been having some troubles...
<CanoeBerry> Twarz: another question (after you're done answering nteon) is what I emailed to ericb2 -- should this project also consider XO-1.5 beta machines available in just a few weeks?
<nteon__> Twarz: interesting, what kind of troubles?
<Twarz> CanoeBerry - I think we could consider them, but to be honest I'm not familiar yet with the laptops themselves, maybe asking directcly ericb2 would be a good idea
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<CanoeBerry> Twarz: can you ask ericb2 to respond here before we wrap up in 5 min?
<CanoeBerry> His input would help us approve you.
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<nteon__> Twarz: I am not familiar with the OOo codebase, but my understanding is that it is mighty large.  You probably do not want to build it on a 400 Mhz XO1
<nteon__> sorry, 433 Mhz
<nteon__> :)
<nteon__> Twarz: I think the project has potential, I just want to make sure you're aware of some issues before jumping in
<Twarz> nteon__: I've been having some freezes or sudden terminal quitting when trying to compile a certain part of the code, and I couldn't really realize why. It only concerns some precise part of the compilation...
<CanoeBerry> Twarx: do you know why your link is currently now working?
<CanoeBerry> i meant "currently not working"
<Twarz> CanoeBerry: I think this is currently being fixed if I'm correct, but I couldn't tell you when it will be available
<CanoeBerry> Twarz: we need ericb2 to explain a bit more to the group here -- is he not available?
<nteon__> Twarz: what are you going to be targeting?  The existing 8.2.1 build that is being shipped on XO1s, Fedora 11 which is the base of SoaS and will be the base of the 1.5 image
<Twarz> nteon__: we are aware of the capacities of the XO, and indeed building OOo on it would take some time. But at the same time, it is the point of our project, to try our hardest to make OOo work well on a XO laptop
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<CanoeBerry> Caryl: back for good?
<Caryl> This is not working. Keeps stalling
<CanoeBerry> We're trying to wrap up Project #1 (open office for kids in France)
<nteon__> Twarz: building OOo on the XO is very different from having it work well on the XO
<Twarz> Unfortunately ericb2 has guests at his house now, I don't know when he will be available
<nteon__> Twarz: have you used any profiling tools like callgrind or oprofile before?
<Caryl> +1 for France
<dogi> +1 for ooo
<CanoeBerry> +1 for France, but we need clarification from ericb2 who is helping guide the project.
<Twarz> nteon__ : I've been working essentially with valgrind and gdb, and used callgrind at a lesser extent
<CanoeBerry> Let's Conclude Project #1: verdict and forward-going support path?
<CanoeBerry> Twarz: what is your Support strategy to gain adoption and feedback?
<CanoeBerry_> Oops I'm back, what did I miss?
<icarito> +1 for OOO france - one roadblock you will find Twarz, is that XOs dont have swap at all so they block when mem is full
<nteon__> Twarz: you might want to try to get a mock chroot setup in order to target 8.2.1, there is some information on the wiki about that, also Michael Stone (mstone on irc I believe) might be able to point you in the right direction
<nteon__> CanoeBerry: +1 from me as well
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<CanoeBerry_> Twarz: APPROVED, thanks -- plz stay in close touch via the and a blog or wiki site that you specify.  Post this to
<Twarz> all: thanks a lot :)
<CanoeBerry> BACK TO PROJECT #1 for a bit.
<CanoeBerry> nteon__: can you ask again if ericb2 has hopefully been patient?
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<Caryl> but I want to be sure they understand what open source and sharing with the community really mean
<ericb2> CanoeBerry: I got the question in my answer
<ericb2> Answer to 	nteon__ question (why ask for XO, while Sugar can directly be used) : we'd like to work in real situation because we have a part of the study who does concern performances issues. + the issues must be reproductible, and last, the students will have 1 UI improvement and 1 performance imrovement ( different for every student) to validate the project.
<CanoeBerry> nteon__: ask your other questions quick please!
<dgd> ericb2, that was my question
<ericb2> so they need to work with two machines. whenever possible
<ericb2> dgd: I forgot:  we try to contribute back to the Performance project
<CanoeBerry> ericb2: when will this site be back online?
<ericb2> dgd: and if the improvement are good enough, they will be proposed for integration upstream
<ericb2> CanoeBerry: we're setting up .. today
<CanoeBerry> ericb2: where will you blog regularly about your progress so that others can join in?
<dgd> ericb2, integration of openoffice into Sugar?
<ericb2> dgd: OOo4Kids. A light version
<ericb2> dgd: no Java, no Base, 265MB instead of 400 MB installed, and UI changes .. and so on
<nteon__> ericb2: That sounds good.  My concerns were that building (and rebuilding) OOo on the XO1 is unrealistic, which build you would be targeting (just because F9 and F11 are fairly different targets), and that you might want to spend a little time setting up chroots for building/testing, probably using mock
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<dgd> ericb2, with eventual integration into Sugar? OLPC is hardware. Sugar is the pretty stuff on the screen
<Caryl> I may have been disconnected again?
<icarito> sounds good to me
<nteon__> Caryl: I can hear you
<ericb2> CanoeBerry: we got several possibility, but the moist simple is to provide an account to the students at
<dgd> cloud computing then? is that the goal?
<CanoeBerry> ericb2: thx;... plz provide a link from to your most active blog
<ericb2> dgd: we'd like to learn Sugar, and what means Sugarization, and explain and share what we learnd
<ericb2> CanoeBerry: we'll setup that asap
<ericb2> CanoeBerry: noticed
<CanoeBerry> ericb2: and answer whether you want XO-1.5 beta machine(s) in September?
<ericb2> CanoeBerry: XO 1.5 is p erfect
<CanoeBerry> Instead of XO-1 or in addition?
<CanoeBerry> Understand that the HW internals are almosdt entirely different..
<ericb2> CanoeBerry: the 1.5 is great : we'd be able to provide you feedback in same time
<icarito> CanoeBerry: please let them have XO1 - OOO for ir would be neat
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<CanoeBerry> icarito: clarify plz?
<ericb2> CanoeBerry: Thomas and Abdelkader are really motivated, and curious :)
* ericb2 too 
<icarito> XO1.5 maybe extra but we'd love to have OOO for XO1 - do you think that is realistic?
<CanoeBerry> icarito: yes it seems they should have both.
<ericb2> icarito: not OOo, but OOo4Kids .
<icarito> we're talking about #1 right? OOO from france?
<CanoeBerry> ericb2: how about 2 XO-1's for now and 1 XO-1.5 beta?
<icarito> yes, that
<CanoeBerry> nteon__: final questions about speed / profiling / featuritis / support plan etc?
<ericb2> CanoeBerry: yes. So we'll resend one of them back, once we'll receive the 1.5, right ?
<icarito> only as far as I can tell XO1.5 could run full OOO just fine...
<ericb2> icarito: OOo4Kids, runs on Celeron 500 + 128 MB of RAM
<icarito> yes, so XO1.5 is 1.5 Ghz, 1GB RAM
<nteon__> ericb2, CanoeBerry: I am fairly satisfied, I suppose I just to express that I see the XOs in this case being used for testing and profiling/instrumentation, not general development
<CanoeBerry> ericb2: Probably not necessary -- better to try to find kids in your region who might provide personal feedback?
<ericb2> nteon__: I'd like to add, we'll do a conference in the school on eraly October, and have machines would be perfect
<CanoeBerry> Let's conclude.
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<icarito> CanoeBerry: I'd like a 1.5 beta in september (here at escuelab!)
<CanoeBerry> ericb2: Long term promotion and cultivation of bug reportage & feature requests will happen how?
<ericb2> CanoeBerry: that's the idea
<ericb2> CanoeBerry: we'll work on that. Do you have a trac, or IssueZilla like ?
<CanoeBerry> Any objections to 2 XO-1's and 1 XO-1.5 beta shipment to follow in Sept?
<CanoeBerry> +1
<nteon__> ericb2: yes, publicity is good too :)
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<CanoeBerry> ericb2: Use for HW and for SW
<ericb2> @all : will be on , later next week
<CanoeBerry> Roughly speaking :)
<ericb2> CanoeBerry: we'll use that, and if we have an idea, to improve, we'll suggest
you then
<CanoeBerry> ericb2: THANKS
<CanoeBerry> APPROVED
<ericb2> CanoeBerry: you're welcome :)

[ PROJECT #2 : UCSB's Cross-cultural learning activities - California, USA ]

<CanoeBerry_> Next, plz all comment on the merits of Project #2 here:
<Twarz> all: thanks a lot :)
<CanoeBerry_> UCSB's Cross-cultural learning activities - California  
<CanoeBerry_>    Requests 10 XO's over 24 months
<CanoeBerry_>    Project Objectives:
<CanoeBerry_>    1. We aim to create XO-based activities to integrate into the
<CanoeBerry_>    California 3rd-grade curriculum (particularly, science, math and
<CanoeBerry_>    language arts). The goal is to make the XO a continuous learning
<CanoeBerry_>    resource for use throughout the mid-elementary school curriculum (as
<CanoeBerry_>    opposed to the use of computers in a specific, time-restricted,
<CanoeBerry_>    computer lab period).
<CanoeBerry_>    2. We aim to use the XOs to establish and nurture an international
<CanoeBerry_>    peer-exchange program between a California elementary school and an
<CanoeBerry_>    African elementary school. The goal is to create awareness of the
<CanoeBerry_>    children’s commonalities and differences, for example, in family
<CanoeBerry_>    structure, school environment and curriculum, resources, recreational
<CanoeBerry_>    interests and future aspirations.
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<CanoeBerry_> (noting that UCSB in Univ California, Santa Barbara just NW of Los Angeles)
<Susannah> yes indeed, three from California connected: Susannah, Bill and Andrew
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<dgd> greetings
<CanoeBerry_> Susannah: welcome and please introduce your project very briefly now if possible!
<CanoeBerry_> dgd: welcome from California too?
<dgd> CanoeBerry, negative, New Orleans
<CanoeBerry_> Right!
<dgd> here's a wild idea... project approvals must have published products about OLPC / Sugar
<Susannah> Certainly! We have a group of very enthusiastic UCSB students from Education, Psychology, Computer Science, Chemical Engineering, Global Studies who are interested in creating partnerships between California elementary schools and schools in other countries. We are particularly interested in using the collaborative tools of the XO to facilitate exchange of information and working together, during which the kids learn about each other. We also wan
<CanoeBerry_> dgd: that's not a wild idea, that's the requirement :)  See the Contributors Program summary:
<CanoeBerry_> FAQ therein especially.
<CanoeBerry_> Susannah: please continue!
<CanoeBerry_> Susannah: u there?
<Susannah> OK - we have a grant from the Faculty Outreach Program at UCSB for this year's
work, and it is very likely renewable. We have teacher stipends, funds for school infrastructure, small stipends for student developers, website development, etc. I am putting together a proposal to the NSF Office of International Science and Technology where I spoke with the Acting Director, Mike Suskin. He is very excited about the prospect of creating links between 
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<CanoeBerry_> Susannah: that's fantastic, and your site is very welcoming to our OLPC/Sugar community:
<Caryl> Having problems with chat becoming inactive.  I'm leaving Safari and going to Firefox
<CanoeBerry_> Susannah: are you done introducing, and can we ask you questions now?
<Caryl> Now it is working,,,oh well
<CanoeBerry_> Or do you want another minute?
<Susannah> please do ask questions...
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<Caryl> Do they or Kellogg school already have XOs? If so how many?
<CanoeBerry_> Susannah: plz answer Caryl's questions about your existing experience with XO Laptops and the Sugar Learning Environment?
<Susannah> We have 10 XOs that were donated last December. Several more were purchased by parents and teachers through the G1G1 program. Wish we could still buy more!
<dgd> Susannah, have you done screencasts while students were working on the XOs?
<dgd> any recordings?
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<dgd> Have any of your group posted bugs or tips or anything about your existing use of XO?
<Susannah> We have made video recordings and the kids have enjoyed playing with them in the classroom. We haven't tried screencasting yet.
<CanoeBerry_> Susannah: you may be able to buy more; contact us at if you have a serious proposal to tender her.
<CanoeBerry_> *here
<CanoeBerry_> If the quantity of XO's is large, just specify your needs and it will be considered.
<CanoeBerry_> But let's continue with the meeting here first.
<dgd> Susannah, SB is wealthy, why OLPC and not off the shelf laptops?
<Susannah> At the moment, it isn't large. However, the California market is potentially large if the school boards get excited about this project. The international aspect is the one that the principal and teachers and our school board are most interested in.
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<CanoeBerry> Susannah: can you answer some of dgd's questions about particulars above?
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<Susannah> SB is bimodal. There is a wealthy population but also lots of kids, up to 95% in some public schools here, with free lunch eligibility. Many do not have any computer experience. I think our biggest interest though is being able to create a common link between the kids in the African elementary schools and the CA schools through the XO.
<Caryl> I got dumped again!
<WillGrant> Andrew any comments on bugs and communication on same with OLPC?
<CanoeBerry> Great to build a cross-cultural log-distance link if you have the facilitation resources to make that real!
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<ericb2> CanoeBerry: I'm there
<dgd> Susannah, that can be done through other means though... cross connections are available elsewhere
<Caryl>  going to firefox I missed Susannah's answer
<dgd> and cheaper as well
<icarito> Susannah: so you already have links with the african elementary schools then? Do you have counterparts there that are equally interested in exchanging?
<CanoeBerry> ericb2: hi, can you answer a couple of the questions above in just a min when we finish this California proposal?
<dgd> Is your school prepared to set up a jabber server?
<dgd> do you have jabber servers in mind from Africa?
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<ericb2> CanoeBerry: I'll try :)
<CanoeBerry> nteon__: the (impressive) project lead for OO4Kids is here (ericb2) so plz recapitulate your questions in 1 min
<AndrewM> Bugs and issues so far have been reported by other people previously.  But we are intent on reporting anything else that may occur (and are currently working on diagnosing an issue with the write program)
<Susannah> We have connections with the American International School in Lusaka, Zambia, and through them local African elementary schools in Lusaka, such a Balueni and Chibelo Schools. We also have a connection to the Esiteti school in Kenya who are eager to partner with us.
<dgd> Do you have someone to manage your jabber server?
<dgd> And, is Africa awake when your students are awake?
<dgd> I would think connection to SA will make more sense than Africa...
<CanoeBerry> Which community in Africa is likely, and have Internet/pricing nightmares been evaluated?
<dogi> maybe they want to have an offline link to africa
<CanoeBerry> dgd: SA = South Africa? South America??
<Susannah> I'm afraid our computer science students are not here today - they will return to campus in the fall . Sept 24 is the first day of school. Time zones are an issue, of course, and we had planned to start with communication that is not in real time.
<dgd> South America
<CanoeBerry> dgd: your point is very well taken.
<dgd> Susannah, will your students have email? Does OLPC / Sugar have an email component?
<Susannah> The American school has internet and can provide connections to nearby African
schools in Lusaka. In Kenya, there is a lodge near the Esiteti school with internet who is willing to let us use it.
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<CanoeBerry> OK, let's conclude now.
<Caryl> Wow
<Susannah> We would like to expand the connection to S. America. We need more participating classrooms. We have connections in Paraguay.
<Caryl> I have a lot cf concerns about this priject
<CanoeBerry> dgd: can you ask your final question and allow people to provide their votes?
<CanoeBerry> Caryl: plz ask right now so we can wrap up.
<Caryl> I have been having trouble with chat
<Caryl> Again do they hve XCOs?
<dgd> Susannah, have you been to any of the schools in Africa?
<WillGrant> We have estblished relations &we have children who need to learn and have free internet that will enable connections
<CanoeBerry> WillGrant: who is paying for the free internet?  (email later if nec!)
<WillGrant> we have fellow professors who have been on the gorund there within 60 days
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<Susannah> not personally, but my colleague Brad Chmelka has visited the school in Lusaka several times. He is also a PI. Local SB resident and teacher Teri Gabrielsen has visited the Kenyan school many times.
<Caryl> Are they still creating software or is it just a collab. project with School in Africa?
<nteon__> CanoeBerry: wnt AFK, generally back now
<CanoeBerry> chrowe: welcome! We are wrapping up our assessment of the 10-laptop request for Univ Calif Santa Barbara.
<CanoeBerry> nteon__: perfect.. we will be ready in 1min
* dgd thinks they could go with Sugar on regular laptops
<Susannah> yes, we absolutely want to create math, science, English activities for the XO that will help California teachers integrate the XO into other parts of the curriculum.
<CanoeBerry> dgd: will you mentor?
<icarito> good question Caryl
<Susannah> the laptops will also be used to demo the activities for school boards, PTAs, other classrooms etc
<CanoeBerry> We need to conlude now.
<dgd> -1 could use regular off the shelf laptops with Sugar installed and achieve same
<CanoeBerry> Susannah: would you consider a partial fulfillment of 2 XO's shipped immediately and the rest shipped later after working with a mentor in the coming month or so?
* ericb2 ready to answer to several questions 
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<CanoeBerry> Time to conclude Project #2 now.
<Susannah> yes, sounds fine, we are grateful for any input
<CanoeBerry> Cast your votes now so we can move on please.
<nteon__> +1
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<CanoeBerry> +1 conditioned on close mentoring, who will mentor?
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<CanoeBerry> The UCSB team has put a lot of preparation into this, certainly.
<dgd> mentoring could be done via constant screencasts
<dgd> record what is going on and post for all to see
<sverma> +1 with mentoring
<dgd> group mentoring
<CanoeBerry> Calling once.
<CanoeBerry> Calling twice..
<Caryl> I would like to be able to get my questions answers.  I have some serious concerns but RT isn't cooperating for me today
<Caryl> -1 for now.  I will contact them via their ticket and ask my questions there
<Susannah> can we get back to you by email
<CanoeBerry> CONDITIONALLY APPROVED -- with strong ongoing mentoring -- plz email contributors @ if you can help mentor
<Caryl> The ticket is better because the answers will be there for all to access
<CanoeBerry> I will ship a partial allotment of XO's next week as Mentors help me along the way.
<CanoeBerry> BACK TO PROJECT #1 for a bit.
<Caryl> I did want to help mentor.  Live close, retired educator etc.
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<CanoeBerry> BACK TO PROJECT #1 for a bit.

[ PROJECT #3 : New repair center in Innsbruck - Austria ]

<CanoeBerry> Onto Project #3:
<CanoeBerry> Please all review the following new proposal.........
<CanoeBerry> New repair center in Innsbruck - Austria
<CanoeBerry>    Requests 10 XO's (broken OK) over 10 months
<CanoeBerry>    Project Objectives:
<CanoeBerry>    Repair XOs by the rules set up in
<CanoeBerry>    The user will communicate to my new Austrian phonenumber which will
<CanoeBerry>    follow soon and to emailaddress: AlpXO at
<CanoeBerry>    Turnaround expectations:
<CanoeBerry>    I plan to be as fast as possible. The repairing part shouldn't be much
<CanoeBerry>    of a problem because I am experienced with computers (SW and HW). As for
<CanoeBerry>    the delivery I have no experience but hope to overcome that knowledge
<CanoeBerry>    really soon.
<CanoeBerry>    As a first step will start locally (eastern part of Austria) and if that
<CanoeBerry>    works I will take care of the region in which the Munich and Bolzano
<CanoeBerry>    libraries are situated.
<dgd> +1 if he documents /video his fix process... that way others can be trained to fix XOs as well
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<CanoeBerry> dogi: why does the proposal specify "eastern part of Austria" when Innsbruck is in Western Austria?
<dogi> hi all
<dgd> otherwise the knowledge will not spread
<CanoeBerry> hi!
<dogi> sorry my error
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<CanoeBerry> OK
<dogi> naturally western austria
<CanoeBerry> dogi: what countries will be serviced?
<CanoeBerry> will repairs be accepted from across Europe?
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<Caryl> I lost it again
<dogi> if all works as planed we will accept from austria germany and italy
<CanoeBerry> dogi: what about Switzerland?
<dogi> i m mailing already with urs
<dgd> Is the person making the proposition trying to carve a new economic niche for themselves?
<CanoeBerry> Great-- do they already have repair "capacity" in CH / Switzerlands?
* dirakx says hello
<dgd> why can't local computer repair people handle this?
<dogi> but there i don t know how to send the laptop for cheap
<dgd> is XO that hard to fix?
<CanoeBerry> dgd: you cannot get rick repairing XO's :)
<CanoeBerry> *rich
<Caryl> I will email UCSB with my concerns. Adam, I have lost the transcript so will need their address to cc. zplease  post it when we are done.
<CanoeBerry> But the question is a good one: what pricing will be charged?
<CanoeBerry> Caryl: this transcript will be posted within ~24hrs to:
<CanoeBerry> dogi: what pricing will likely be charged?
<dogi> interesting question for me money is not really the goal to earn
* dgd still wonders why local repair shops can't handle this...
<CanoeBerry> Many current volunteer-owned and volunteer-run repair centers charge a flat rate of $20
<dogi> but i m  more interested in the network
<dogi> of persons
<CanoeBerry> dgd: clarify your question
<CanoeBerry> dgd: your question needs precision
<dgd> Austria has lots of computer repair people. Why send one guy 10 broken XOs?
<CanoeBerry> dgd: specific parts and experience are required. see how well this has worked over the past year here:
<dgd> where is the benefit there if the person doing the repairs is building a curriculum for repairing XOs'
<dgd> s/is/isn't
<CanoeBerry> dgd: above link answers your question
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<CanoeBerry> Let us begin to wrap up now please.
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<CanoeBerry> +1
<dogi> no offical repair center in all that countries
<CanoeBerry> Netherlands has really great repair center.
<dgd> who is going to pay for shipping?
<dogi> :)
<CanoeBerry> Portugal has a small one, however they have no promoted themselves well to this day.
<dgd> and what of customs?
<dgd> Is that going to be a problem?
<CanoeBerry> dogi: please answer dgd's question above.
<dogi> which kind of costoms do u thinkof?
<CanoeBerry> import duties and taxation
<dogi> f11 debxo
<dgd> and is the price of shippping (return) going to cost more than the machine itself?
<CanoeBerry> and the necessary bureaucratic handholding when a shipment is (invetably) 
stuck in customs
<CanoeBerry> *inevitably
<CanoeBerry> dogi: what are shipping costs within DE/AT/IT -- not a theoretical questions and your page should make recommendations here.
<dogi> like i said we will try to do that as cheap as possible by
* dgd wonders who eats the blame for lost shipments/computers
<dogi> using the national post service
<CanoeBerry> OK, let's finalize our recommendation and conclude.
<CanoeBerry> +1 if the applicant clarifies shipping policies and specific low-hassle recommendations.
<dogi> what we are able to provide will be 3 addresses in 3 countries
<dgd> so three repair centers?
<dogi> no one ... :)
* dgd is now confused with 3 addresses/3 countries
<dogi> but i hope they will act as 3
<dogi> basically countries in europe are realy little if u want to have enough repairing u need to setup something like this
<CanoeBerry> Calling once for final verdict on 10 XO carcasses to Austria...
<Caryl> he says he is willing to take broken XOs
<CanoeBerry> Calling twice (please vote now..)
<Caryl> +1 I like recycling!
<dgd> +1 with documentation on how to fix machines so that porcess can be reproduced elsewhere
<dogi> ok
<nteon__> +1 as well
<Caryl> documantation is good. Add to what we already have on the wiki
<dgd> dogi, looking forward to seeing vid/pics of your test bench!
<CanoeBerry> APPROVED -- if applicant promotes (1) themselves, (2) specific  shipping recommendations, (3) some details on the repairs they offer
<CanoeBerry> Thanks You All!!  MEETING ADJOURNED
<Caryl> bye
<dogi> ciao
<ericb2> bye, and thank you very much
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<CanoeBerry> jamaal21: hi!
<CanoeBerry> Our mtg just ended but hope you are very well :)
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<Twarz> thanks a lot, good bye !
<jamaal21> hi all
<jamaal21> we are happy, moving day
<jamaal21> sorry i missed it...
<jamaal21> will try again sunday or next week...
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<CanoeBerry> jamaal21: see ya Sunday 4PM boston time (1PM Calif time)
<CanoeBerry> Ask Caryl for the conf-call number if you don't have it handy.
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<Red-Tan-85> bye
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