m_stone> hi folks! m_stone> tonya37: hello!
tonya37> m_stone hi, there is a meeting today? m_stone> that's why I'm here. :) tonya37> m_stone great
m_stone> unfortunately, all of the OLPC folks just locked themselves in a room with a delegation from UY. m_stone> so I suspect we won't be hearing too much from them. m_stone> cjb: (though they could surprise me and prove me wrong!)
m_stone> tonya37: would you mind introducing yourself? tonya37> m_stone I am Tony Anderson, I am working with OLENepal m_stone> tonya37: great; a pleasure to see you again. :)
m_stone> aa, luar: awake? m_stone> kristianpaul__, tarbo2: alive? m_stone> wadeb|w, bjordan: around? wadeb|w> m_stone: yep m_stone> Lemon-Jade-09: hola! luar> m_stone: hi! Awake but working :/ But I'm reading the IRC each some minutes :) smithbone> m_stone: I'm keepking an eye on the the meeting. ping me when you think its a good time to bring up the MBC.
cjb> hi all cjb> I'm afraid I'm in a meeting this week m_stone> cjb: maybe you could speak near the end? (or write an addendum for me to add to the minutes?) m_stone> cjb: if your meeting runs late? cjb> I think the meeting will run late
tonya37> m_stone: I had a chance to visit the Connexions 2009 Conference last week. Shuttleworth Foundation is beginning to roll out a complete k-12 curriculum call Siyavula on Connexions.
m_stone> tonya37: url? tonya37> m_stone: http://cnx.org/news/rice-african-partnership-is-open-education-blockbuster m_stone> tonya37: thanks!
m_stone> tonya37: do you intend to continue tracking their progress? tonya37> m_stone: yes
m_stone> tonya37: great. it would be really nice if you were able to summarize their work, say, once a month, so that we learn about opportunities to share with them as such opportunities arise. tonya37> m_stone: ok. The plan is for science to be added to Connexions in March. I should be able to update after I get to Nepal at the end of the month. m_stone> tonya37: good, that will be very helpful.
tonya37> wadeb|w another item. etextread has a karaoke/e-speak feature which is not working. The activity currently depends on speech- dispatch. It could either eliminate that dependency or speech- dispatch (a daemon to allow multiple activities to share e-speak) could be added. wadeb|w> tonya37: ok, I will follow up with the author
wadeb|w> tonya37: what build are you guys on by the way? tonya37> wadeb|w I believe a homebrew mix of 8.2.1. tonya37> wadeb|w the important thing about OLENepal is that they are using Firefox 3 in order to deliver Flash 'activities'. wadeb|w> tonya37: yah, that's been annoying me :) see the 3rd item at http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/TODO
wadeb|w> m_stone: top task list needs right now are help triaging activities on SoaS and other distros. we could also use some help collecting top requests from deployments m_stone> wadeb|w: speaking of which. wadeb|w> m_stone: actually the second item - collecting top requests from deployments - should be the highest priority right now :) wadeb|w> tonya37: a lot of discussion has gone around about fixing it but I haven't seen a solution appear yet wadeb|w> tonya37: IE, Firefox should not be needed to run Flash
tonya37> wadeb|w the other key parameter is that the new school year starts in April 2009 - OLENepal is working on a freeze of 2/13. wadeb|w> tonya37: good to know, maybe we can get those issues fixed for you in time
m_stone> wadeb|w: have you gotten any helpful additions to your activity- team's task list? wadeb|w> m_stone: we are making progress, driven by the amazing efforts of a few individuals :) alsroot has taken and completed Speak collab which was on our high priority list, and Tony Anderson is making progress on image quiz which is another one of our top priorities. also, activities continue to be migrated. wadeb|w> m_stone: my biggest looming task is writing to all the past activity authors (morgs sent me a list he collected late last year)
wadeb|w> m_stone: I'm also still working on Typing Turtle which is nearing feature complete, been doing a lot of testing back and forth with Nepal (who plan to ship it) m_stone> wadeb|w: neat. there are probably other groups who will enjoy Typing Turtle as it is completed. I'd love to help advertise it here.
tonya37> wadeb: I should have put it on the list. SocialCalc desparately needs to be able to save/restore spreadsheets. wadeb|w> tonya37: it can't save and restore spreadsheets? yikes tonya37> wadeb|w yea, verily wadeb|w> ...I'm trying to track down the email address of the SocialCalc devs right now
m_stone> several of the items we spent some time on last week which might be relevant to you include: m_stone> wadeb|w: we spent a long time talking about how to help Peruvian teachers (and others surrounding them) communicate better among themselves even though they have little connectivity. m_stone> wadeb|w: walter suggested that we produce digests of olpc-sur and distribute those via the UGELs (regional distribution centers) m_stone> wadeb|w: we also talked a lot about both local activity creation and adaptation of activities to meet new ends. m_stone> wadeb|w: for example, caryl led a short conversation about "how someone might make Conozco-Uruguay into Conozco-Peru?" m_stone> wadeb|w: we talked about sneaker-net compatible blogging software -- aa offered to work on edublog in order to make it work better for Peru. m_stone> wadeb|w: and walter hinted that Peruvian teachers had already found imaginative ways to reuse existing activities. m_stone> (in other parts of the world, we discussed how desperate Sierra Leone is for materials which assist with literacy since the literacy rate in their current pilot schools is apparently < 2%)
wadeb|w> m_stone: all that sounds great! we have a page going on SL regarding how to modify activities. it might be of interest to the deployments wadeb|w> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Modifying_Activities m_stone> wadeb|w: well, maybe we can help get it tested so that you get some feedback on it... m_stone> wadeb|w: for example, it would be great to get some sense of "how much it helps" to advance work on environments like Pippy & Develop vs. writing better tutorials or modifying existing activities to be "user extensible" like Walter's recent TAP examples.
wadeb|w> m_stone: digests of olpc-sur also sound awesome, the language barrier is huge for me at least (1 yr spanish in high school :)) wadeb|w> m_stone: and I would love to hear what they are saying about Sugar in their own words (or as close as possible)
wadeb|w> m_stone: let me investigate edublog for a sec
m_stone> wadeb|w: we should get http://sugarlabs.org/go/Modifying_Activities translated and distributed on-XO. m_stone> wadeb|w: it's not going to do Peruvian teachers much good on the wiki. wadeb|w> m_stone: yeah, good idea :) maybe a library bundle could be created from the current snapshot
wadeb|w> m_stone: perhaps we could ask the Conozco-Uruguay devs to contribute a section? m_stone> wadeb|w: we can ask. :) wadeb|w> have you got contact info?
m_stone> aa, luar: who wrote conozco-uy? :) aa> m_stone, wadeb|w: Gabriel Eirea wrote conozco uruguay wadeb|w> aa: ok, thanks I have an email to write then aa> he can be reached through sur or olpc-uruguay lists, or at geirea at gmail wadeb|w> aa: thanks aa> welcome :) m_stone> (yay networking!)
Finding Help in Sugar
m_stone> wadeb|w: re library bundles: maybe, but maybe activities could grow a hints or a "help overlay"?
wadeb|w> m_stone: I've been cheerleading for a "Help" button in the toolbar of most activities that launches Browse with a .html file from the activity bundle m_stone> wadeb|w: nice and simple. your idea is good to implement because it's trivial.
wadeb|w> would have to be translated o/c, which could increase the amount of translation per activity by a lot... but still better than nothing m_stone> wadeb|w: still, I think you should talk to eben, walter, and the etoys folks. this might be another area in which sugar could profitably distinguish itself from its competition. wadeb|w> m_stone: agreed! ok, I'll follow up on it then.
m_stone> wadeb|w: for example, could scott's click-to-trans feature be used to help get the help text in the right languages? m_stone> (i.e. "how would I edit one of those help docs on an XO?") wadeb|w> m_stone: sure, don't see why not. integrating it into hulahop might be a job though wadeb|w> m_stone: but yeah, offering the ability to translate locally would be great
m_stone> wadeb|w: tiddlywiki! :)
wadeb|w> m_stone: yeah, it seems like we need some kind of a system. I'll open up a discussion re: Sugar help m_stone> wadeb|w: thanks v. much.
m_stone> wadeb|w: (though don't forget the hard work on the manuals) wadeb|w> m_stone: do you know if we ship the manual? is that what goes in the Help activity? m_stone> wadeb|w: yes. on the other hand, I think that the chapters which went into the XO manual are quite different from those which went into the Sugar manual. m_stone> perhaps encouraging PE and others to ship the Sugar manual as well would be time well spent (if they don't already have it)?
m_stone> smithbone: would now be good for the battery-charger pitch? smithbone> In the near future (2 weeks) I'll have 20 Multi-battery chargers to send out for people to mess with. smithbone> I'm looking for sites that are interested in testing. smithbone> And feedback on if this is some thing that they can integrate into their plans.
tonya37> smithbone: please contact Bryan Berry (firstname.lastname@example.org) smithbone> tonya37: he's already on the list. tonya37> smithbone: great
m_stone> smithbone: what qualifies a site? smithbone> A site really boils down to either: poential for ordering lots of them or somebody with advanced technical skills and lots of batteries to charge
m_stone> smithbone: where should people go to register to participate? smithbone> m_stone: have them email me email@example.com.
m_stone> smithbone: (seems like this is kinda similar to the contributers program; just for less common hardware?) smithbone> m_stone: yes. Contributors just with more specific conditions. you need lots of batteries to charge. (and discharge) m_stone> smithbone: okay, will do. thanks for the update. smithbone> wadeb|w: The key thing is that I need is demand info. smithbone> To make it work I have to either place large orders with my mfgs or charge more. m_stone> still, we won't know what's economical for folks until we ask...
m_stone> smithbone: anyway, thanks for trying to figure out something that makes it easier to get batteries charged. :)
Rwanda + XSen?
m_stone> anyone else have questions that I can try to find answers for? tonya37> m_stone: as a general question, it would be interesting to know which deployments plan a schoolserver at each school and how they plan to use them.
m_stone> hey folks. bjordan is sitting here chatting with me if anyone has questions for him about deployments he's working with; etc.
m_stone> bjo: how about those XSen? m_stone> (not sure yet, though it seems likely) m_stone> (it's hard because rwanda's schools are _large_: 1K students at school A, 2K at school B, ...) tonya37> m_stone: Nepal is rolling out (this year) three classes per school. This converts to about 100-150 XOs per school.
m_stone> bjo: is there a contact-person for Rwanda to whom such questions can be directed? m_stone> (not yet.)
tonya37> bjordan: also, whether the deployment plans to use Moodle, and if so, how.
m_stone> tonya37: what sorts of hardware would be needed for Moodle to scale to these numbers of users? tonya37> m_stone: One guideline says 2gb per student for backing up their data (4tb?). Ejabberd is another limiter - there is a large memory cost per user. tonya37> m_stone: multiple servers per school could be implemented by separating the ssid of the wifi to partition students between servers. tonya37> m_stone: I don't think Moodle will be a bottleneck. It is currently used with large numbers of users.
m_stone> tonya37: your point about backups is well taken though. m_stone> 4tb/school gets expensive right quick.
tonya37> m_stone: I like the msi wind server (based on atom). Costs on Newegg for a 1tb with 2gb memory - $205. Bryan is rightly concerned that we understand cooling issues. tonya37> m_stone: oops $205 with 160gb, 1tb is about $250. m_stone> tonya37: neat recommendation; thanks!
m_stone> tonya37: bjordan and I were just discussing how valuable it is to benefit from the experience of "people who have broken the trail" like you've done in nepal. m_stone> tonya37: he said he'll try to get his contacts to publish some details so that more benefits of this nature can be extracted. tonya37> m_stone: I think we should all share this info - no point in several people out there with machetes. m_stone> tonya37: that's why we're here. :) after all -- what better time than the very beginning to avoid obvious mistakes!
tonya37> m_stone: speaking from 30,000 feet. I think the issue of server is very important. Much of the Sugar/Activity discussion does not assume a server is available. Moodle offers off-the-shelf solutions to a number of problems - but can't be used if there is no server m_stone> tonya37: as you say -- it's not a decision to be made lightly.
mick_laptop> i was just talking to wadeb|w in #sugar about a particular issue that i have and he said that i should plead my case here mick_laptop> basically my problem is that i can't find the right person/people to talk to about putting the WTND book from Hesperian onto the xo laptops in deployment mick_laptop> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Hesperian mick_laptop> i talked to some medical professionals (who are actually family members of mine) who setup hospitals in developing countries (Cambodia and Afganistan being two that they mentioned) -- they had expressed their concerns about making it a download mick_laptop> they had said that for security reasons it should come on the laptops that are deployed mick_laptop> if anyone has a second to talk about this, it would be much appreciated
aa> mick_laptop: I believe you should build a library bundle as those at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Library_grid aa> (never done so myself) aa> I believe they can be accesed through the browse homepage
aa> m_stone: maybe you know more about this aa> the library bundle can probably be included in the image with a customization key aa> mick_laptop: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Customization_key
mick_laptop> ok, lets say i make the bundle - how would the deployments know about it? aa> I guess talking to whoever makes the content decisions at the deployments you're targeting
m_stone> mick_laptop: ironically, my mom was the person who introduced OLPC and Hesperian... two years ago? mick_laptop> m_stone: really? hmm, cool mick_laptop> tell her thanks for me :) m_stone> will do. she'll be pleased that someone is finally pushing to get the darn books shipped. :) mick_laptop> m_stone: i'm jsut still not sure what the best way will be :-/
m_stone> mick_laptop: well, what form of content are you working with at the moment? m_stone> the html pages? the indesign document? the pdfs? mick_laptop> the content isn't the issue mick_laptop> pdfs -- the other 2 were really bad ideas mick_laptop> i will just do a pdfmerge mick_laptop> that way there will not be any issues w/ formatting or keeping them up to date mick_laptop> since hesperian releases them as pdfs (chapter by chapter though)
m_stone> mick_laptop: okay, in that case, aa's suggestion is a fine one. mick_laptop> m_stone: ok, after i make the .xol (i take it that they should be bundled as such?) and i do the Library Grid thing (haven't gotten too deep into that) then i should contact the deployments individually? (like say i bundle the spanish version, then i get in touch w/ the Uruguay deployment etc.) aa> mick_laptop: or find people in the deployments willing to help you aa> mick_laptop: I would be glad to talk to LATU or ANEP here in Uruguay mick_laptop> aa: thank you so much; any help would be greatly appreciated
mick_laptop> also, does anyone know a olpc wiki admin? mick_laptop> i've asked in a few channels to be able to add something to a page (which is protected) mick_laptop> it is the one regarding developer keys aa> mick_laptop: try _sj_ at #olpc-content mick_laptop> i'd like to add a section of what to do if Browse freezes (I'm not the onlyone with that issue) mick_laptop> aa: re: hesperian? i talked to _sj_ already -- sleeping last that i checked aa> re: finding a wiki admin :) mick_laptop> sj was the "community contact" w/ hesperian before afaik mick_laptop> oh, heh mick_laptop> like i said, sleeping :) mick_laptop> i might just make the changes and /msg _sj_ mick_laptop> aa: know anyone else who might be an admin? aa> mick_laptop: http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Special:ListUsers&group=sysop mick_laptop> thanks