User:DancesWithCars
DancesWithCars
What's With the Name?
A biking persona and trail name...
Name Conflicts
There is a previous biking DancesWithCars out west (Northern America) somewhere rumored to have passed away...
This joker is on the east coast, is not that person, and NotDeadYet (a disability community name where people wondering how long we last...)
Attends DC Learning Club meetings
Since owning a G1G1 machine, started attending OLPC Learning Club DC meetings, to get support, find out what's in the community, give back, have some fun, etc..
DWC provides some informal activities for the group's kids when the lectures get too adult, i.e. brings a WowWee Tribot/FlyTech BladeStar on occasion and resists any long streams of lecture information, as he also has the attention span of a gnat, and needs notes, websites, camera snapshots, etc as disability accommodations to remember, concentrate, process, i.e. learn and function...
Parental Supervision Required
DancesWithCars does not claim to be Adult besides his ever increasing adult age (45, sigh), so everyone else might want to provide adult and parental mentoring on occasion, (but he will resist...)
He is an Uncle of two children aged 10 and 5 and asked *his* parental unit for holiday gift money to buy an XO on the G1G1 Program in 2007), hoping his relatives would also for the kids but alas did not... He anxiously awaited a surprise green box delivered to his subsidized apartment doorstep (lucky not to have lost it) on St. Patrick's day over a year ago...
Life has not been the same since. Every time opening up the laptop, he gets "Is that one of those...???" "Yes, an OLPC, One Laptop Per Child, intended for children in least developed countries..."
When around children, after checking with parents for OK,
usually says something like "The good news is that you can try the machine",
"The bad news is that I'm taking it with me when I leave..."
And then show Activities like Speak, Record (not saving, memory full or similar error), TamTam Mini, Paint, etc depending upon the age and interests of the little person and adults, time available, other necessities like checking gmail, etc...
And some children claim that since the keyboard does not fit me, as an adult, they should have it, and while an appealing argument, No... MINE... Good try though...
Solo Machine i.e. low mesh experience
Having one machine didn't try meshing unless at DCLearningClub events, but was usually too distracted (by kids running around, all the interruptions, possible lecture, attention span of a gnat, etc) to concentrate. Later tried a little meshing on some DC Lending Library machines, but not using that feature to it's fullest potential yet...
Touchpad Problems and DC Repair Shop
He later found his touchpad didn't work well (goes into hyperspace after a while) and after some talk with the youth run DC repair shop, quickly bought a Targus mini mouse at a local office supply store to make his machine useable, bought an extra battery from the repair shop ($20?), and still wants to make a DynoHubSolarPowerCombo for Bike Touring. Googling DancesWithCars will probably yield a DancesWithCars.CrazyGuyOnABike.com tour journal describing some of his crazy tours (in state, C&O Canal with photos, commuting options, rants on mental health, pollution, etc)
Batteries Required
Received an XO 12 V car adapter as a gift from a visiting Learning Club DC XO presenter/ visiting expert. THANKS! (forgot his name, please remind me...)
Has been drooling (figuratively) over power options, solar panel (tried Mike's at Nortel one winter through a window, and worried about the funny hissing like sound).
See my DynoHubSolarPowerCombo project idea to apply for contributors program...
Catalogging Accessories and Options
Takes pictures of various accessories that work with XOs, mostly seen at Learning Club DC some later found available from XOExplosion, and general marketplaces, mostly wondering what will work with it and collecting info for others to try...
Flexible keyboard
Having gotten the XO mail order in the G1G1 program, I didn't realize I'd be crunching my fingers so close together, so one of my first purchases was an adult size flexible keyboard capable of rolling up and hopefully not breaking when rolled up in a backpack for long commutes...
MicroCenter in Vienna had one in the discount bin, and probably carries a large selection.
Others are seen with a small keyboard but required sending to Amazon or online shopping...
Mini Mouse
Targus makes a notebook mouse (TODO: lookup UPC, exact names, put up a photo, etc) Model PAUM01U, that is small enough for kids to hold and not so big to take up much space in a backpack..
There are third party clones seen at MicroCenter which are cheaper, but much bigger than hoped :-(... Inland Products (inland-products.com) Pro Optical Retractable Mouse (UPC 012405070465) Stock # 07046, purchased for ~$8, but yet untested...
Eth USB adapter
With no built in Ethernet and sometimes no wireless access, the USB to Ethernet adapter (branded green XO) as a give away at the XO-1.5 demo, has come in handy at the book sprint, and probably eventually at home too. It works when booting up creating another eth device and not sure yet how it interacts with mesh, and competing devices. Will see, and hopefully report on here, eventually...
Some Assembly Required
Having gotten back into electronics with the purchase of an AdaFruit.com Arduino Starter Kit and some sleds/shields (Motor, Wave, Eth, etc) and learning that Sun's Java 32 bit version works on 64 bit Fedora 10 with and RXTX update, and some fussing, and even loads on 32 bit XO but menus and windows are in a weird position and acting and have yet to get functional...
Sun's Java didn't run with the older version, but 802 build seems to at least start, but is not connecting yet..
Soldering
With a clear glass teacup on his knee up too close to his very nearsighted face (NEED SAFETY GOGGLES! and PARENTAL SUPERVISION) soldered the Arduino 9Volt battery compartment (badly), Proto board, Wave and will work on the others later...
Leaving OLPC Learning Club a month ago, went to Radio$hack and got a helping hands (alligator clips and magnifying glass on a weighted base with soldering iron cage and cleaning pad) when wanting a panavise, plus too much other stuff... Expensive and impulsive purchases... Too rushed and not planned out well enough.
Anyway, will need to go to/ create SolderersAnonymous sometime soon...
Projects
NOTE: This may be superceded by any official versions...
Helped (arguable) setup the machines with
poweron boot # ESCaping on cue disable-security # reboots boot # ESCaping on cue disable-security boot # fully #open terminal activity su root /usr/sbin/olpc-update -frvv 802
# ... wait for 15-30 minutes depending upon net speeds, congestion, etc...
Doing grunt work across the 25 machines and making policy recommendations for distributing across the whole DC region (cache at meeting sites), living in the remote suburbs and not owning a car, biking is not always an option (distances, late night, gangs, traffic, weather, energy level, etc) and long distance, difficult carrying NOTE: SEVERAL XOs ARE HEAVY, etc...
Will probably describe a manual process of opening up the boxes, figuring stuff out FOUND PATH ADDITION
/usr/sbin/olpc-update 802 # on 656 version necessary in the wiki...
/usr/sbin/olpc-update -frvv 802
NOTE: 767 build was superseded since Jeff's previous installs...
Docs.google.com Lending Library spreadsheet could create a checkout form...
Generally, took about 1 hour per machine to process without transit, email coordination, etc...
Normally, I would have made a formal burn in/test/ acceptance process, does everything work, accept as working machine?
But discovering stuff during the upgrade process described above and elsewhere...
Serial numbers also found on XO batteries (Two companies BYD and GP) and on chargers.
Kid Project aka UncleCrazy
As checking out two machines to loan to relatives, and learn from the experience, described here... UncleCrazy
Might learn how young people use the machines,
might get ideas on what to develop,
mostly share the experience with the little relatives
and give something back...
Hardware Learning
User:DancesWithCars/Hardware Learning
One of the library machines had an I Beam touchpad pattern and very/ almost impossible to use without the same MiniMouse described elsewhere...
Jeff suggested using this machine to learn hardware on, as it already had issues...
Learning to open the case, what the parts are and where, plus troubleshooting and repairing to be learned...
Mind Map the Wiki.Laptop.org???
There has developed a huge amount of information on this wiki and I've not really learned the organization of it, as having my HardwareLearning page above moved to a user space, (it does say in the bottom paragraph that 'your writing will be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will' (wonder about share and share alike with attribution an option? and been wondering about how wikis are born and grow up, given that wikipedia has an army of editors, and neutral point of view policy, wondering how the overall schema of this wiki.laptop.org is graphically mapped for kids and others to grasp what all is here and easily access it...
Concordance, tag clouds and mind maps seem rather interesting and wondering, at least informally why not done here???
Other Affiliations
Does Linux and Open Source in the adult community
since finding Fink on an 'old world' Mac Beige MiniTower enabled using X Windows, but 6 Gig HD and booting issues suspended it's use...
got help from K. in first starting out with Yorktown HS Libre Users Group back in the RedHat 8 Road Tour and Stallman visit days...
became webmaster of a LUG website and has been going there since 2002...
created a (book) library for a LUG (public libraries had too old info, not that good selection and difficult to checkout and return on time, so created my/our own, with LUG support),
With LUGs, showed XOs at FOSE (Federal Office Systems Expo in 2008 and 2009) but lost some information in the translation since we don't actually sell the machines, but showing Linux on other (cute and very public green) hardware...
Accidentally wiped the hard drive on my 64 bit Averatec laptop with the XO School Server ISO in a mad rush before demoing at FOSE2008, and whined about it on this wiki, but forgot his login, to continue the thread and account details...
He has yet to hack a kernel, and doesn't actually program much anymore, since losing his favorite lab machines, Symbolic Lisp Machines to post cold war DarkSide mothballing...
F11 for XO-1: Interesting How To...
From a posting onthe discussion of building a backport of Fedora 11 XO-1.5 software for the XO-1...
Not sure I'm up to doing it/ taking it on. but nice to know it's available for keeping those with older hardware in the loop...
I've been calling the XO 1.5 a Fat XO in the Mac tradition, same form factor / box, but different... Maybe Prodigy XO? It's same kid size, but smarter ;-/
danceswithcars 16:53, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
git checkout xo-1
FAILS, no joy ;-( ...
danceswithcars 17:42, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
more specifically, fails in the following way:
git checkout xo-1 fatal: Not a git repository (or any of the parent directories): .git
danceswithcars 23:19, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Still Didn't Work ...
I've not figured out Git. The commands listed on main page didn't work for me... same error. Tried Perl6. Rakudo, proto and november (wiki in P6) with git and no success either. Long learning curve...
danceswithcars 10:30, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
XO-1 Bites the Dust
Ok, so I've been having XO problems since I got it:
- keyboard is kid sized, ok, mail order, didn't think of that, use an external USB keyboard
- touchpad, but adding a USB mouse workaround fixes that.
- Then the camera not working, ok, I don't show record, the crowd pleaser,
- use Speak and the microphone app measure? instead...
- But then the screen stops working
- (weird behavior, was blank restarting/ hard booting fixed TEMPORARILY,
- now dark rolling lines/ bars and looks like shorting out, maybe a smell too?),
- then it's toast...
And the G1G1 program is not running RECOMMEND: (should be year round, imo, and reduces the holiday rush, enables kids/ parents to purchase for school year terms, and planning for use, plus contributing to the OLPC project financially and possibly development, plus new not ebay take your chances...),
I'm probably a little light on the tech for doing a development alpha XO-1.5
- (though I do want it, could potentially use it the following ways
- run school server software (XO-1.5 as a teacher's machine, serving for students/ clubs/ afterschool activities, development,etc..),
- and show to LUG members, across users groups like Perl Mongers, mini demos, run builds, etc...
- and more production ready beta boards of Fat XO-1.5 are a ways away...
- (even if shipping worked locally)
Rants:
- SO IT SEVERELY LIMITS WHAT ONE CAN DO WHEN YOU CAN'T GET THE HARDWARE, LIKE ANY OTHER MACHINE...
- And wastes my years of experience with the project
(albeit mostly user, and OLPCLearningClub.org user group,
- but I've made as much as $100/hour doing short term computer work)...
Grumble grumbles:
- if it were really a $100 machine as the intended goal,
- then buying one would not be as much of a problem...
- But at $426 with shipping, and unknown delivery wait times.
- it's a little beyond this disabled and hence poor person...
My current options seem to be:
- Not sure if I'm going to be able to get them from lending / pool... OK So Far but for 3-5+ months?
- Ebay sounds risky as used, mail order, buying old tech, etc...
- Bakeoff ( OLPCLearningClub.org comparing netbooks) makes me wonder which one,
- though not a good comparison as XO-1 started the netbook category, price, features, and not a systematic comparison, apples to oranges, in lots of ways...
- wait for a daylight Mary Lou screen available on other netbook hardware, but not kid focused nor as kid rugged?
- wait for XO1.5? WHEN? HOW? HOW MUCH?
- really want a touchscreen (saw it on the Intel Classmate, and bugging OLPC to allow as an option/ or on a development platform) for the DynoHubSolarPowerCombo project
danceswithcars 10:30, 24 July 2009 (UTC) updated danceswithcars 19:11, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
Learning Club DC Music on XO presentation text terminal alternative
At August 2009 OLPCLearningClub.org, Kim presented XO Music in the Cloud computing environment with several issues, imo: (Note: Prezi.com site was kewl with zooming capability for visually impaired, but said not to run on the XO Mozilla browser, iirc.)
- Restricted, Adobe Flash dependency,
- open source gnash browser plugin has issues with certain websites,
- online dependency of web browsing
- mp3 format Restricted Formats even for an open source jamemco? music library site?
- caching and bandwidth issues (browser up on a XO-1 + media playing)
So as an alternative, to install MP3 movie and audio playing capability, some streamtuning [1] package (captured a LUG Linux on Kojo NPR talk, a very long time ago from a desktop machine with high speed wired connection), and other text browsing that might eventually become a text format alternative to the presentation
Either with a browser download the freshrpms package [2]
Note: close the browser as yum is memory intensive and may %pre %post error causing conflicts that require a clean reinstall start the Terminal Activity su root # or become root icon top right wget http://ftp.freshrpms.net/pub/freshrpms/fedora/linux/9/freshrpms-release/freshrpms-release-1.1-1.fc.noarch.rpm rpm -ihv freshrpms-release-1.1-1.fc.noarch.rpm yum install mplayer streamtuner mpg321 lynx yumex
- yum may load package definitions, if you've never used yum on that machine, or getting current data
- answer some questions, Yes install, if enough space and OK with restricted formats, etc
- import gpg keys for repos, if OK with you to go off the yellow brick road, so to speak...
Note: The Yum (Yellow dog Linux Update Manager - written in Python for Apple Mac Linux distro at Duke, iirc) handles dependencies, but some Fedora Core 9 repos are currently timing out over the 6 month release cycle?) so gave many HTTP 404 Not Found errors, and Fedora 11 presto deltarpms will reduce bandwidth and other goodies, but will need a back ported F11 for XO-1 release...
- Yumex is the windowed but not sugarized? yum gui, and may hang the machine, requiring hard power button off and on to reboot...
- Lynx is a text based browser occasionally useful for quick connection low overhead/bandwidth stuff
- Others present liked RealPlayer for streaming media from NPR,
but that is non free as well,
- HelixPlayer is the community version, but
still run into codecs (code decode file format reading/ writing) of audio and/or video files on content offered from websites
- and that's without DRM (Digital Rights Management, a copy protection scheme), etc
So, will see if I can do that full alternative solution...
Seems like a simple protocol like
- HTTP, NFS/ Samba or FTP protocol
- local or remote file service caching files
- to your thin client like XO,
- somehow select which files to play, maybe
- randomplay (a perl script that randomly jumps around a directory of files) might do the trick, or at least amongst your personal collection
- Grip will encode on a desktop with a CDRom/CDR/DVD drive).
- Ogg is a good free format, MP3 has royalty/ restricted format issues.
- Ogg Convert with a GUI interface on Fedora your collection to convert .mp3 to .ogg encoded formats.
And grab new interesting audio files from the web as able, save to USB or on a desktop machine, then transfer to XO or file server, or leave on USB/SD storage...
Also, I find a cheap MP3 player with USB connection,
- (or GeeXboX a Sandisk Sansa, iPod or even a 1 Gig Colby as USB storage)
- occasionally add external speakers like
[3] OLPC Learning Club RAFFLE WINNER! :-) for presentations, though recycled plastic instead of paper may be longer living for packing & repacking the speakers, and stronger packing material might help the rugged ways I end up carrying gear on a bike and other ways...
Or Headphones! Especially good for kids insisting on playing with Speak Activity before they know how to read/ write/ type/ not deliberately annoy grouchy old adults such as UncleCrazy...
Electronica 2009
Someone at the Sunday evening ClassActs meal asked about the Therimin kit from Electronica.
Harrison Instruments PO Box 9012 Silver Spring, MD 20916
MinimumTheremin Kit
~$40 US
101_description Note: does not include antenna (6 inch x 6 inch aluminum? plate, which can be rounded off to be easier to pack), nor stand insulated, but does include the 9V battery.
Will let you know how SolderersAnonymous goes with it...
ClassActs Book Sprint @ Gallaudet
http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/ClassActs/WebHome
Attended all but the last day, Friday, and some late night sessions, doing some photo processing remotely. Long (2+ hours) troublesome commute back and forth on top of 10 hour scheduled days. And as a disabled person, only good for about 4 hours/ day. Energy level, attention span, need quiet to think and write, etc...
Remembering some sign language (finger spelling name, and a couple of curse words, thank you, someone asked about sorry, but I've forgotten) when back in deaf community.
SpeakSign Activity
Suggesting a Speak activity sign language (later as an output driver?).
Finger spell instead of audio for later use across all the apps.
Maybe a Measure activity as hearing eye dog? Flash (invert) screen on microphone sound of doorbell (program it), telephone (cell phone, not vibrate, sirens, fire alarms, etc)? Temporary accommodations for backup, deaf students and adults might already be outfitted, but was a quiet campus most of the time. Dorms were probably louder, as classroom areas more discrete?
Back to ClassActs Book Sprint and Gallaudet.edu Experience
Missed the Gallaudet bookstore, one time started to visit Wednesday, but no backpacks inside, and not comfortable/too tired to walk stuff back, also closed at 4.30 pm Thursday when I went back empty handed/backpack free.
Found the late food place after the cafeteria closes.
ATM around the corner, asking with my really slow stuttering letter signing from 25+ years ago, finally showing my ATM card to info desk personnel.
OLPCLearningClub meetings there are on weekend mornings, so not a lot of college students up at that hour ;-/, and most stuff closed then...
Nice campus. Ducks back by the dorms in a pond. Ropes course, closed except when instructor on site, says the sign. Blue Bison mascot on the hill, IN BLUE GRASS. Nice buildings architecture, interesting. Sorenson Language Learning Center was new building and very high tech, glass not photographing well. My digital camera might be having issues, as stuff was way off color, but batteries low by the time I got back...
ClassActs Sprint Contributions and Writings
Besides bringing some emergency rations, Labor Day cafeteria and snack store closed, Trader Joe's Almond Butter (2x), Milton Multigrain Bread (2-3x), Welch's squeezable Strawberry & Grape Jams (2x), TJs Lemon Cookie Thins (1/2?x), etc.
Adding ideas to the XORecipes section, but mostly advanced requiring more software or extra hardware. Added photos to that, found some icons, not really the app, but extra projects and tangentially related.
Took the SprintPhotos, but warning raw images, makes 10 MB over 9 photos (not scaled by flossmanuals.net in rendering?, giving source data), and requested Green Penguin drawings, getting some two SVG graphics from a little person through the helping parent, converted with Inkscape to .PNG format, as first time with SVG sources.
Given a XO USB-Ethernet adapter at the XO-1.5 talk! Worked like a charm. Thanks SJ and OLPC/LearningClub! Used it the next morning on the hub/ router during the sprint and later...
Lost connection so many times while others were present (mesh, full memory, browser issues or tampering?), but never when there early only with host, so wondering why kicked... Mesh issue with so many other machines?
Ended sprint after Thursday night's transit late arrival (paratransit went from Dupont pickup to Bethesda for another passenger, It's 'Shared Ride'...) getting home after 1 am? Stomach problems, not used to eating that way. Exhaustion after 7 days, Fri bike and family, Sat Electronica2009 trip, Sun sprint start/dinner out Bankok, Mon sprint, Tues sprint/HacDC XO-1.5 talk, Weds sprint & Gallaudet XO-1.5 talk, Thurs sprint & dinner out Taste of India, collapse, frustrations, etc...
The Little Green Penguin That Could
A Genesis Story (for kids, teachers, funders and the community) (Mel volunteered to do some web comic like graphics, maybe tying the story/ case examplar implementation lessons together) 'Here children, have a seat and let us tell you a story...' Of the little green penguin that could grow up, when he wanted to, in the right environment, and with some attitude adjustment ... In a land far far away in a time not so long ago, (really about 2 years ago,) but it seems like a while... On his bad days, he eats butterflies for breakfast, his relatives/ uncle crazy snaps at some guy named Linus, is that how he got his name? Ears up and ears are down like a dog (or RCA's Nippy) [use my niece's drawing?] [seen in the face of speak, with the mouse pointer left as a nose] Conceived somewhere around Cambridge, Mass Probably on a late night binge of pickled herring, baked beans, and <s>beer</s>lemonade... Grandpa Nick, St. Nick on good days, a visionary driver on others to the elves) Aunt Mary Lou made him appear on screen even in the bright of day and Sweet Bender, a Futurama robot character spawning SugarLabs, finding a home in the larger community, this too sweet, this is saccharine, and off to port Hatched somewhere in Asia, he wandered the globe in search of people who liked him, and upon discovery, and learning from all his travels, with all its new little friends, scattered around the world he wanted to say thanks to St. Nick, and the donors/elves that made the trip and discoveries happen for him And he lived happily ever after, in all our little hearts, sometimes green with envy, sometimes difficult to handle, but always loved... XO
[] are improvisations or improvements, added for future changes, images, etc. See also http://en.flossmanuals.net/ and specifically, http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/ClassActs/SprintPhotos for one applied to the sprint... plus the requested graphics from Owen...
XO-1.5
Not much time with one yet, went to two demos/ presentations, had to leave the first quickly while the others were 'briefed' on the OLPC mission and it's use.
Second demo by SJ @ Gallaudet, interacting with students. Some issue with fsck when finally had some time... 4 Gig or 8 Gig sounds good. Via chipset. Possibility of doing 3D. Power demand changes slightly. Would brown out if all the peripherals are on and using old power transformer/supply/brick, which means a new plug?.
Worried about policies of no G1G1 program. Availability. Getting parts, etc...
Looking forward to a Gnome version. Driver support, system changes, Fedora 11 base upgrade, etc??
Third Demo at OLPCLearningClub monthly meeting, it was in Spanish, so finding the menu items was impossible. Visiting Spanish speaking Intel clubhouse guy didn't change it over, and don't get me started on Intel's WinTel monopoly, corporate bullying, XO/ ClassMate competition, etc...
So of course, want one of my own, despite going to local MicroCenter and finding a $200 refurbished adult celeron based Asus EeePC, that the sales guy would not take out of the cage for me, and not sure of all the compatibility, but it was there, and more available than future vaporproducts, didn't require shipping, wait time, online purchasing, etc. So will see.
Asked for an XO 1.5 from the contributors program for DC. That way I might get some (quality) time with one, piss off HacDC, be able to keep track of what needs to be done on the project (i.e. tracking issues, development - some low level project management), try the new stuff to see what's ahead, show others, be the first kid on the block with one, etc...
Some list discussion includes the idea of sharing the machine with SSH X-Windows forwarding, which sounds interesting on several levels... Sugar is probably not set up to share, but X-Windows was originally designed for it (i.e. networked graphics substrate, though client and server don't have the usual meaning, reversed, server displays, and client gives program, unlike server hosting files, and client requesting them, it's an upside down world, lots of times...)
Development Ideas
Earlier:
Put output of the Record activity (video, photos, audio) to an external USB Stick and/or SD Card.
Allow recording as long as the memory holds out.
Easily save as a file & convert the output to .ogg, etc for posting elsewhere, on email, websites, etc... (The cut and paste metaphor in Sugar escapes me as an old person, with decades of other computer experience, and might some teachers, etc)
--danceswithcars 15:08, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
From Book Sprint Experience:
SpeakSign: Modify Speak and/or create another app/ activity to finger spell sign language what is typed in as output for deaf, teaching sign to others, and disability accessiblity... See elsewhere for more info...
Make "The Little Green Penguin That Could" (above) into an animated
character that can go all through the
[4]
sections, and start up an image LiveCD/ SD card of SugarLabs Live CD
and start and execute each of the examples of software
showing the person in a demo like environment what implementation
things we are talking about...
Use for training too...
Demo mode might help for trade shows (FOSE, NECC, USENIX, etc) conferences and training manuals too...
OLPC IRS 990??
As a donor to the OLPC efforts, I don't recall seeing the standard IRS 990 (Non Profit financial disclosure form) describing how those funds are being used.
If OLPC is to have credibility, and accountability, to donors and to recipients, I would think this should be easily accessible...
- The 990's for both the OLPC Association and the OLPC Foundation can be obtained from www.guidestar.org, just use one of the bugmenot logins. cjl 01:33, 18 September 2009 (UTC)