Talk:Main Page
Somethings to consider before Editing this discusion page:
- This page is for the discussion of the Front page not for questions and comments about the OLPCs
- Please sign all comments. It makes figuring out whos saying what much easier.
- If you have questions about the OLPC go to the OLPC FAQ.
Recently this discussion page was hacked down to make it more manageable. see history if you feel like you're missing anything--Stranger 20:30, 5 June 2006 (EDT)
This Wiki Needs Some Organizing
this discusion page has absolutly nothing todo with the front page and the front page doesn't really exist its a couple of links... Is there anyway I could get privleges to the front page and the community pages to clean them up a bit? --Stranger 21:46, 4 May 2006 (EDT)
- Anyone who wants to clean up a page should feel free to do so. If you are unsure about deleting text, then create a new page to hold the deleted text. If the page you want to clean up is locked, then create a new page that you think should replace the locked page and link to it. We'll muddle through.
- The sparse front page is an artifact of my experience with Mediawiki pre Version 1.6+: the Main Page was a favorite target for spammers. Now that we have a light-weight Captcha system in place (SJ, thanks for recommending we upgrade) we could perhaps revisit the decision to have it locked down. In any case, it shouldn't, IMHO, ever be more than a top-level gist of the site. Walter 01:33, 5 May 2006 (EDT)
- What would be cool would be a nice little framework for the front page... Maybe something like a quicklink/ hot pages thing on the right side, a quick introduction of OLPC and this wiki on the top leftcenter and maybe a top news just bellow that --Stranger 20:28, 5 June 2006 (EDT)
- Alas, it seems the light-weight Captcha is not enough. We've been getting spammed again. I'll try upgrading to a heavier-weight version. Other suggestions? Walter 13:16, 4 June 2006 (EDT)
- Please upgrade the Main Page. The most important parts of Table of Contents should be there. I would have started this work if the page weren't protected. Guaka 18:47, 23 May 2006 (EDT)
- There are links in the navigation menu to "the most important parts" of the ToC. If there are additional links that would be useful to include, please suggest them. Walter 21:51, 3 June 2006 (EDT)
I have several suggestions.
- A community page would be nice
- fix the layout of the front page. this could include...
- a bar on the top with links to different language wikis for the OLPC
- a quick reference bar on the right
- A quick introduction to the OLPC project and this wiki just under the language bar
- just underneith that a box with latest news and such
- A page where people could ask questions would be really interesting if done right.
- More stuff on the software would be cool. More links to Redhats work, Links to the dev mailing list and what not.
These are just a few ideas to make this wiki the best source on the OLPC project.--Stranger 20:42, 5 June 2006 (EDT)
- "Why do people here keep posting "I" while they are not logged in? Readers should be correct to assume that only OLPC personnel will dare say "I" while forgetting to sign in (that is, if it were truly a helpful post). In this regard, is OLPC making sure that its personnel are logged in before making a post? Plus, there must be some other way to tell if a post is "official", meaning, done by an OLPC staff following current policies." A random comment inserted into this topic
top 10 concerns
Top 10 Concerns about the design and implementation of OLPC.
The Time for the OLPCWiki in Spanish has come...
Y aqui les dejo la primera... página...
Me permito someter a su consideración los siguientes artículos que describen un IMPORTANTE avance tecnológico, que ayudará a cerrar la brecha entre los países pobres y los desarrollados.
La adopción de estas computadoras y su distribución en México, permitirá:
1.- Un salto cuántico en la calidad de la educación al permitir que cada niño, jóven y adulto posea su propia PC con acceso a Internet.
2.- Permitirá desarrollar una política de NO EXPORTAR TRABAJADORES, sino IMPORTAR TRABAJOS, al facilitar la realización de trabajos virtuales desempeñados sobre la red.
3.- En Australia, donde las distancias entre los vecinos no se miden en metros, sino en HORAS DE VUELO, los médicos han desarrollado mecanismos para atender a sus pacientes a través de Internet, la aplicación de estas técnicas, podría poner a los médicos de México al alcance de toda la población rural y de pequeñas comunidades, sin necesidad de construir costosas clínicas y hospitales por todo el territorio nacional.
4.- Permitirá a los jubilados y discapacitados trabajar desde sus casas, brindando consejos y ayuda a los ciudadanos para sus problemas de...
a) Tareas y Estudio,
b) Domésticos y familiares,
c) Emprendedores y Pequeños empresarios,
d) Tramites y apoyos Gubernamentales,
e) Asesoría en Turismo. y haciendo traducciones, apuntes y otros trabajos.
Todo con cargo a las tarjetas de todito.com de los que requieren ayuda, de lo cual un 15% o 30% queda al organizador y el resto (85% a 70%) se entrega al asesor o tutor.
5.- Desarrollar una industria propia de computadoras, mediante la contratación del la fabricación y ensamble de sus partes en México.
Gracias por su atención; agradeceré una respuesta franca, breve, clara y práctica a este mensaje, con su opinión y aportaciones, así como la justa oportunidad de participar en el desarrollo de los conceptos expuestos.
Atentamente,
Ing. Dagoberto Gmo. Flores Lozano Consultor en Ing. Industrial y de Sistemas, desempleado. Ex-Investigador y Profesor Universitario, Ex-becario de la Fundación Ford, en Berkeley, Aguascalientes, AGS. MEXICO dagoflores@prodigy.net.mx
The computer is a really good idea - MAKE US PAY
I wish, please do they sold in every high developed countrys - FOR 150.- Dollar! (To elemantary schools etc. its a perfect machine.) And then you can go down with the price for poor countrys about 50.-$, better!
I'd just like to add that, as a British university student, I would personally pay up to maybe £250 ($300 - $350 USD?) to have one of these for myself, and would be happy to spend a good £50-100 extra on top of this as long as I knew that ALL the money I spent was going to help lower the costs of distributing these in schools around the world. Portable, durable, reliable, small, Linux (I'm assuming this version is user-friendly?), lots of USB ports, no higher spec than is neccessary, the sort of thing I could take everywhere I go without worry, and it has a crank handle (absolute genius!!!) - it's perfect!
Seriously, assuming there's no compatibility issues with office software, it's the perfect student machine: Overcharge us (comparatively) rich folk to hell and back, sell only direct via a website, get college/university-based voluntary organisations (in Britain, go via student unions and computing services) to distribute your publicity for you for experience (i.e. free), and use proceeds to extend the project. I know I'd be perfectly happy to help out and to pay a (modest) premium as long as it was clearly accountable and untainted by profiteering or dodgy dealing - i.e. that 100% of the proceeds went straight back into the project. Have an unemployed/state-benefits price ($180?), a full-time student price ($350?) and a waged price ($500? e.g. for technophobic writers, journalists, academics etc?).
There's a hell of a lot of people who want nothing more than a simple, portable, reliable typing machine with USB and optional internet, and who'd be happy to pay extra for a good cause and a guarentee that they weren't being ripped off by something badly made. Unlike every other computer manufacturer in the world you satisfy all of these criteria. It'd be a very simple way to modestly boost fundraising and awareness. Plus it'd make people like me very happy!
- Nice :-)
- Make it with a different color case(grey) and stamp a logo and message into the cover (like Apple does in their laptops). The message would say "I donated to the OLPC project". This way you prevent the real units being diverted into the 1st world retail stream.
Totally agree. 4 good reasons to let everybody to buy it :
- I'm a software developper and I'm very interrested to pay twice the price for a OLPC laptop. Then I could easily create and test software that works well on it.
- The twice of the target price is not so high compared to many "test computers" and still can give financial support to the project.
- Another interresting border effect is that a critical mass is reached faster. The scale that permit a production/shipping price under the target price.
- I'm interrested to buy this kind of educationnal tool for my own children. This is more interresting than a game console but not more expensive. More, this is a good platform for educationnal games.
- (KEF, Belgium)
German version
Ich vermisse die deutsche Version dieser Seite Jakob Mitzlaff
I have focused this project since mid-2005,at first I don't believe that it can become true,but as many world lead level scientists and corportation joined in this project,new achievement in every course, I do believe it can make this dream true.
I have some ideas to improve the project in China if the product will be finished,and there are maybe many problems facing the fact because China has large area,different culture,how to manage transportation,how to repair,how to train them ,etc,it's real facts.It must be considered before the donation,otherwise it will bring some trouble,I think it is important to establish a small office or to find a cooperative enterprise first.
I heard that Mr.Negroponte will visit our country in couple weeks, it maybe take a blockbuster .I wish I have pleasure to meet him.I hope I can learn from core team ,I try to contribute something .
Interesting interview here (6th April 2006): http://www.zdnetindia.com/news/business/stories/140370.html
- Hi Jakob. I have just finished translating laptop.org into German. See the source file at OLPC Germany/translation. -- Mathias Schindler 07:46, 7 April 2006 (EDT)
Recent Changes page
Could you consider changing the Recent Changes page please so that more than the last 50 changes are shown? Sometimes more than 50 changes are made in a day so it may be impossible for some of the people who like to follow changes to catch all of them. Could 50 be the default with the user able to select a greater number? Could a criterion of "latest 50 or all changes in the latest two days if greater than 50" be used; that would mean that usually 50 would be displayed, yet more if editing activity has increased.
William Overington 7 April 2006
- Hi William. Please consider getting an account at this wiki. Try this link for a longer list of recent changes. -- Mathias Schindler 07:44, 7 April 2006 (EDT)
Other Spanish contributor.
Well, im a spanish linux user with wants to help to OLPC project. I work on University of Sevilla on Spain and work on many open source projects.
Have any specific forum, blog, mailing list or something similar for this?
You can find me here asmarin*nospam*us.es or on my discussion page--Asmarin 12:07, 7 April 2006 (EDT)
The format for expressing dates
I notice that the Community News (not a wiki page) has the date as follows.
OLPC News (04/08/06)
In England, that would often be taken to mean 4 August 2006, on the basis of moving from smallest unit (day), to larger unit (month) to largest unit (year) whereas the intention from America is clearly 8 April 2006.
Interpretation as an August 2006 date for the news document would clearly be obviously wrong at this time, yet in the future, for a historian reading through the news items, ambiguity could occur.
I wonder if I could suggest please that there be specified a consistent and unambiguous way of expressing all dates in the documents of the project.
For example, 2006-04-08 would convey the date unambiguously.
However, month names like April can help, though the English way of writing day month year, leading for this example to 8 April 2006, does look more typographically balanced than would the American equivalent of April 8 2006. However, that could produce problems for someone whose first language is not English, or indeed for someone whose first language is English if the document and thus the month name is not in English. So maybe using the yyyy-mm-dd format might be the best for an international multilingual project.
William Overington
10 April 2006
- I Agree strongly See International standard date and time notation. (Doing this for the tilda tags would be good too) 82.133.105.218 08:34, 10 April 2006 (EDT)
- Thank you for the link. I have been using GMT for times for years: it appears that that went in 1972! The Z seems a poor choice, easily confusable with a 2. Maybe a U or a lowercase z would be better. So, this message is produced at 2006-04-10 1302Z. William
The Perfect choice: 2006-04-30, as it has the additional property of be ready to be sorted..., A series of fields of dates can be sorted properly without the strange results of sorting dates in other formats... Just a mess... ¿no?... Mexico / Ags./Dagoflores (also from larger to smaller)
OLPC Albania
Would it be possible to link OLPC Albania from [1]? I recently saw news that the Prime Minister of Albania had expressed interest in the project, so I wrote a small bit in Albanian. Thanks. Dori | Talk 09:03, 13 April 2006 (EDT)
Done. --Walter
The use of the term "kid"
I have noticed the use of the terms kid and kids in the news page. I saw the term used somewhere else in the project documents recently and felt concerned. So, I am writing to express that concern.
quote
... in terms of both assembling a library of materials for the kids and putting together a collection of “kid-readable” (they currently support “human-readable”) summaries of their licenses.
end quote
Now, I recognize that maybe Americans use the term kids much more than do British people and that maybe this is just something of British culture, yet in England, referring to children as kids is regarded as slang and would not be used in formal documents and not at all by many people, namely those who feel that they are children, not kids, which are young goats.
Now it may possibly be that a decision will be made that using the term kids is fine, yet if that becomes the case then I feel that it should be a decision, not something which goes by default with the term kid and kids becoming prevalent in documents without anyone ever really thinking about it.
So, I would use the word "children" instead of the word "kids" and "child-readable" rather than "kid-readable".
This issue could well be an issue which is due to cultural differences as between different countries as well as between different people within a country.
These notes are just the view of one person in England.
It would be interesting to know views of other people from various countries, including those of other people in England.
William Overington
30 April 2006
Provenance of wiki pages
I am wondering if something needs to be done about the provenance of pages in the wiki.
For example, I looked at Recent Changes earlier this morning and this led me to look at the new page OLPC Google Summer of Code, which had the message "Coming soon.".
That page now has messages from up to five people and includes a message about applying for an internship in Boston.
I feel that it would be better if wiki pages which with official validity invite applications for internships or which with official validity describe OLPC projects are writeable only by people who are part of the management team and that any such page has some logo of provenance that the information on the page may be relied upon as having the provenance of being correct information from the official project management.
Certainly, the ability for ordinary participants, such as myself, to start new pages and edit existing ones is a great facility and long may it continue. However, where information could result in people applying for positions or spending time studying and researching, it would, I feel, be best if there is some explicit provenance system so that people can know whether the particular wiki page has the provenance of containing official information or has the provenance of being a page which may contain information provided by any participant.
William Overington
2 May 2006
Feedback on OLPC News (2006-05-06)
Item 3 is as follows.
3. Mark Foster hand-carried the first three pre-A-Test prototype OLPC electronics boards to Cambridge this week. Together with Michail Bletsas, Chris Blizzard and the Red Hat team, they brought up the mini-Fedora distribution. This means that we now have a stripped-down distribution that will boot and run off a USB key, somewhat similar to the actual requirements of the real hardware.
Feedback.
pre-A-Test prototype OLPC electronics boards
What does "pre-A-Test" mean please? I have heard of beta tests and I am not entirely sure what that means. Could you possibly explain the testing sequence please?
- pre-A-Test boards are essentially untested boards; A-Test boards are debugged manually; B-Test boards are tested automatically--the last step towards manufacturing. We are pulling a few pre-A-Test boards just to accelerate the software development process. The good news is that these boards are working with few if any modifications, a testiment to the skill of the Quanta Team and Mark Foster from OLPC. Walter 11:25, 7 May 2006 (EDT)
to Cambridge
Is that from Taiwan?
- yes Walter 11:29, 7 May 2006 (EDT)
Together with Michail Bletsas, Chris Blizzard and the Red Hat team, they brought up the mini-Fedora distribution.
What is the "mini-Fedora distribution" please? Is it a version of the linux operating system?
- The Red Hat team is making a "stripped-down" version of Red Hat's Fedora Core 5 Linux distribution. Walter 11:28, 7 May 2006 (EDT)
boot and run off a USB key
I have found from wikipedia that one meaning of USB is "Universal Serial Bus".
What does "key" mean here please? I am thinking that the whole sentence is about that in the event of a laptop having a software crash that the whole operating system can be rebuilt by attaching something (the "key") to a USB port of the laptop and then proceeding in some way. Is that correct please?
- From Wikipedia[2]: USB flash drives are also known as "pen drives", "chip sticks" (though very uncommonly), "thumb drives", "flash drives", "USB keys", and a wide variety of other names. Walter 11:17, 7 May 2006 (EDT)
Could you possibly elaborate on what happens please and how, once the laptops are deployed, a child would proceed in order to rebuild the operating system in the event of a total software crash. I am thinking that it would need to be fairly straightforward yet something which could only happen with deliberate action, not by accidently pushing a large reset button or anything like that.
- We have a goal of easy restore and upgrade and are working on the scenarios. The goal is to distribute upgrades to school servers and then use the peer-to-peer network further distribution. We will have some sort of "trust" scheme--to be determined--for authentification. Walter 11:17, 7 May 2006 (EDT)
- Thank you for providing the further information.
Who are you guys? Is OLPC a community project?
I saw a pseudo-thread over on here, linked from 'myths':
http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php/Software_Ideas_-_System_Software#Operating_System_Selection and http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php/Education_Ideas_Esperanto
And it raised my eyebrow. Of COURSE this has to run a flavor of linux, perhaps a really lite flavor, relative to the latest kernel. Proposing otherwise (like using Syllable OS or PalmOS) "contributes" as much to the project as debating whether the native language should be Esperanto. Generous estimate of 2,000 "native speakers"? 100,000 skilled users? There was a lot of text devoted to debating Esperanto. I posit that various editors had to expend more than expedient effort to 'debate away' esperanto w.r.t OLPC.
- The http://www.laptop.org/ webspace contains the official project pages. The project management has decided to provide the wiki facility at http://wiki.laptop.org and allow anyone who so chooses from anywhere in the world that the webspace can be accessed to join in discussions and put forward comments and ideas. Some ideas put forward may well not be accepted. People can put forward ideas which might be regarded as highly controversial, yet it is useful for such ideas to be put forward as they have been put forward in a spirit of goodwill for the project to succeed. A different approach could have been to say that an idea will not even be considered unless it is put forward by someone who is an employee of one of the sponsoring organizations. That way some good ideas could have been missed through an unwillingness to assess ideas on their merits rather than on from where they are suggested. It is good that they took the approach that they did. Also, it is a two-way street so to speak. I feel that I have learned a great amount myself by participating in reading from and writing in the wiki. Indeed, I am thinking that that very process may well be an example of the process of constructionist learning which is advocated as part of the project ideas for learning for the children, though it would need someone who knows more about constructionist learning than do I to say whether I am correct in that thinking.
From there, my question: Is OLPC a community project by the editors of this wiki? If not, what is the purpose of this 'pedia? Does Negroponte read these pages?
- Well, it is not a 'pedia, in the sense of an encyclopedia, it is a wiki for discussion and idea generation. Two items, discussions of whether to use an operating system other than linux and of the role of Esperanto in the project, were mentioned. Yet there are many ideas which have been put forward by many people in the ideas pages. If only one of them is used by the project then the wiki and the policy of allowing access to everyone will have been of value. If lots of them are used by the project then the wiki and the policy of allowing access to everyone will have been of great value. Once the project has developed, how many aspects of the system and infrastructure that then exist will be as a result of ideas put forward in this wiki?
- Yes, if this were truly community-focused, there shoul be Brazilians, Nigerians, Chinese, Thais here now. Let's face it - ones the machine is ready, how it is used shall be the least of Project's concerns. It's hardware-power is at least 10 years old, so the people in involved countries can help themselves with the software.
The orange machine
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A new picture has appeared on the Main Page. There appear to be two upward-pointing arms. It looks as if they may be moveable and would be folded down when the machine is being transported. Is that corect please?
Do the two upward-pointing arms contain aerials for the WiFi system?
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I am wondering as to the health and safety aspects of having these items sticking up in the air when the laptops are being used in a room full of children. However, maybe the arms are just up in the air for showing some aspect of the design in the photograph and would not be up in the air like that when the laptop was being used. What is the situation please?
- What is the health issue that is raised by having aerials that raise? Walter 10:44, 10 May 2006 (EDT)
- I am expressing concern at the possibility that a child (not necessarily the child sat using the machine, perhaps a child walking by in a crowded classroom) might slip and then fall onto a machine and receive an injury from the sticking up item, perhaps a serious eye injury. From the picture, it just seems to me to look dangerous.
Has a health and safety assessment been made of the design, made in the context of using the machine in a room full of children?
- We are working hard to make the laptop as safe as possible. Walter 10:44, 10 May 2006 (EDT)
I miss the crank or the replacement of the crank.
- It has moved to the power brick.Walter 21:45, 3 June 2006 (EDT)
What stops the thieves?
What will prevent gangs from targeting children who have these highly desirable laptops, and stealing them for resale? 62.6.139.14 11:03, 24 May 2006 (EDT)
- The garish childlike colors and the toy appearance of the units will make them undesirable for adults to use or steal. But do not underestimate the child owners. They will know very well that this is a valuable object which they have been entrusted with. They will not want to lose them and will be careful about where they take them and when.
A good use for the 3rd laptop...
I mainly use my laptop at home as an X term to my main Linux box. The features of this laptop make it very suitable for this task. So, for $300 you get a nice X term (at least!) and donate 2 to a great cause. And letting my children use it may produce some good ideas for improvement from a child's point of view.
I hope this project takes off and flies high.
The launch countries
> Regarding the task force meeting, we have gathered together the task forces from our launch countries to brainstrom and share ideas about both learning and deployment issues. It has been an exciting and fruitful meeting of the minds.
This is good news, as is the demonstration of the working prototype.
Could you say which are the launch countries please?
There is the map on the following page with some countries shown in green.
http://www.laptop.org/map.en_US.html
Are they Argentina, Brazil, China, Egypt, India, Nigeria, Thailand?
Are there any others?
letter to the project
Dear OLPC,
In researching positive initiatives for a human geography project, I was very interested to find your project which offers a $100 laptop to poor countries. I take for granted all the benefits I get from computers every day-- I probably learn more from them than books. However, there are some concerns I have about possible pitfalls in this project.
You plan to distribute the laptops through the government in such countries as China. How will you make sure that the laptops are distributed fairly, and not just to kids in communist party households? It seems like the plan is all to presumptive that the governments will fairly distribute the technology.
Also, another concern I'm sure you've heard raised is that the hardware is not open source. Won't proprietary, closed-source software limit the spread of the laptops?
I also read that you are working on making the laptop more "green". Could you perhaps provide some details on what steps you're taking to make it safe for the environment?
Lastly, concerns have been brought up about the economic effect of releasing the computers in a closed market. What is your response to critics who argue that computer companies in poor countries would be hit negatively by the wide availability of these laptops.
Thanks for your concern, but more importantly, thanks for your work towards a good cause.
Sincerely,
Ben
The word industrial is not spelt correctly on the main page.
Keyboards and fonts
I work a lot with my mother and sister who are both Key Stage 1 teachers (thats four to seven year olds) here in the United Kingdom. One thing that they constantly complain about is the confusion that is created with inappropriate fonts for young children when they learn to read and write.
In particular you need to pay attention to the letter shapes of a, g, q, 3, 4 and 9. The closest fitting font that is widely available is Comic Sans, but this has no upwards flick on the lower case q and the digit 4 should be like an upper case L with a vertical line through the digit.
- Good point. Since the developers cannot predict where such difficulties could arise with all the different scripts and fonts, perhaps a stripped down version of FontForge could be shipped with the units. At the very least, the deployment process should include a step where native speakers of each target language review the fonts and document where changes could make it clearer for children. In the absence of a corrected font, some e-book lessons on character shapes would go a long way to helping clear up the kids' confusion.
I was showing them photographs of the laptop and explaining what it was all about, which they thought was absolutely brilliant. However the first thing they commented on was that the letters on the keyboard where upper case rather than lower case and even then the letter shapes where all wrong.
The suggestion from my sister was that it would be good if you could have interchangable keys so that they could start off with a lowercase one and then switch to upper case as they progressed. Perhaps not practical, but lower case versions should be available for younger children. You will need to have lots of keyboard variants anyway as US layout won't do in India or China etc. It's the one component you will need to change depending where it is going to be used.
- This is, of course, already planned. By the way, the upper/lower case variation is only found in the Latin/Greek/Cyrillic group of scripts. Most languages do not have this.
- I remembered seeing a thread entitled Font for teachers in the Gallery forum at High-Logic http://forum.high-logic.com so I looked it up and found the AJoanhand font is still available from a link in the http://forum.high-logic.com/viewtopic.php?t=296 thread. It has the q and 4 in the form that you want them to be.
- The main page for High-Logic is http://www.high-logic.com where their products are introduced: these include a fontmaking program.
Negroponte's quote
I think you should find a prominent place for Negroponte's quote: It's an education project, not a laptop project