Build system meeting minutes day 2

Oct 26 16:00:36 <_bernie> Ok, 1600. Oct 26 16:01:14 * dwmw2_BOS (n=dwmw2@baythorne.infradead.org) has joined #olpc-meeting Oct 26 16:02:21 * c_scott (n=cscott@wireless-19-42.media.mit.edu) has joined #olpc-meeting Oct 26 16:02:24 <_bernie> who's there? Oct 26 16:02:25 <c_scott> hey all Oct 26 16:02:28 * djbclark has quit (Remote closed the connection) Oct 26 16:03:01 * djbclark (i=dclark@208.78.103.171) has joined #olpc-meeting Oct 26 16:03:44 <_bernie> m_stone: are you there? Oct 26 16:03:58 <m_stone> _bernie: yup Oct 26 16:04:00 <_bernie>  :) Oct 26 16:04:07 <_bernie> ok, I think the next point was: Oct 26 16:04:19 <_bernie> ability for some of us to add/remove package ACLs for our developers without going through Fedora admins. [bernie, cscott] Oct 26 16:04:44 <_bernie> I asked J5 about this a few days ago Oct 26 16:04:51 <_bernie> he said there was no problem Oct 26 16:05:36 <_bernie> f13: maybe we should wait for notting, gredek, mbonnet, etc? Oct 26 16:05:39 <m_stone> _bernie: are you saying the problem is fixed, then? Oct 26 16:05:48 <dwmw2_BOS> what does 'Fedora admin' mean in this context, and why can't bernie and/or cscott be one (or two) of those anyway? Oct 26 16:06:18 <_bernie> m_stone: he just told me he had talked with some colleagues and they agreed to give some of us admin privileges for the OLPC-2 branhc Oct 26 16:06:44 <f13> I"m here. Oct 26 16:06:53 <_bernie> dwmw2_BOS: the "admin" privileges we need are: Oct 26 16:07:01 <_bernie> - giving acls to others Oct 26 16:07:19 <_bernie> - branching/ubranching packages in OLPC-2 Oct 26 16:07:50 <_bernie> - ability to add entirely new packages (but we already discussed this yesterday) Oct 26 16:08:12 <_bernie> - maybe ability to sponsor new developers Oct 26 16:09:29 <_bernie> GA Oct 26 16:10:58 <f13> all that could be easily done by more than one person in your group Oct 26 16:11:19 <_bernie> J5 is coming too Oct 26 16:11:21 * J5 (n=quintice@pool-71-126-230-78.bstnma.east.verizon.net) has joined #olpc-meeting Oct 26 16:11:38 <_bernie> sorry, c_scott is super-busy with 10 other things too Oct 26 16:11:54 * dgilmore is here Oct 26 16:11:54 <_bernie> he's telling me what we need quickly so I can relay it to the channel Oct 26 16:11:56 <c_scott> i'm here, but distractable Oct 26 16:12:15 <c_scott> the short list of questions for today is: Oct 26 16:12:44 <_bernie> f13: great, thanks Oct 26 16:13:20 * dulouz (n=chatzill@user-0c9hc73.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #olpc-meeting Oct 26 16:13:23 <c_scott> a) currently J5 is doing our builds for us; are there fedora folk here who can "do what J5 does" (in terms of having the right ACLS) -- J5 will probably need to describe what exactly this entails.... Oct 26 16:14:12 <J5> c_scott: you need to clarify 'builds'. Do you mean rpms or the OLPC image? Oct 26 16:14:16 <f13> what does "builds' mean? Oct 26 16:14:28 <c_scott> b) i think we outlined a "way forward" for OLPC's build process yesterday; I need to know more about exactly how to get SRPMs with a given tag from koji. I think I got the answer to this yesterday (look at the koji/mash source) but I haven't had time to chase it down and try it out. Oct 26 16:14:28 <dgilmore> c_scott: i could do whatever it is J5 does Oct 26 16:14:30 <_bernie> we had this ambiguity sorted out yesterday Oct 26 16:15:32 <J5> c_scott: so the best way to get sources is through the CVS repos Oct 26 16:15:32 <_bernie> Use either "package build system" or "compose tool" Oct 26 16:15:38 <c_scott> J5: i mean the bundle of tasks that need to be done when jg/kim say, "we need a 621" or whatever. Oct 26 16:15:57 <c_scott> J5: it's a vague description because not even I know exactly what's involved (which machines, which steps) Oct 26 16:16:28 <c_scott> for example, the builds appear on olpc.download.redhat.com -- who can put stuff there? Oct 26 16:16:31 * marcopg (n=marco@BSN-95-248-168.dsl.siol.net) has joined #olpc-meeting Oct 26 16:16:41 <_bernie> hello marco Oct 26 16:16:42 <dwmw2_BOS> f13: 'builds' means compose. Oct 26 16:17:04 <c_scott> i should clarify that this is primarily a short-term question -- we have a way forward, but we need help in the next two weeks. Oct 26 16:17:21 <J5> c_scott: those machines are going away. You should put builds on your own servers Oct 26 16:17:34 <c_scott> j5: again, i'm talking about the next two weeks. Oct 26 16:17:43 <f13> c_scott: IIRC access to do the 'builds' would be on your side of the house, not Fedoras. Oct 26 16:17:53 <c_scott> f13: i wish it were that simple. Oct 26 16:17:59 <f13> c_scott: because by that time the Fedora side of things are done and sitting in public yum repos that anybody can access. Oct 26 16:18:13 <f13> modulo any Red Hat hardware that j5 may have been using in the colo Oct 26 16:18:20 <c_scott> f13: there's a mix of koji steps and access to redhat machines involved, and i don't know where the lines are currently drawn. Oct 26 16:18:21 <J5> c_scott: all you need pilgrim and one or more repos Oct 26 16:18:55 <J5> c_scott: so koji builds and creates static repos, pilgrim pulls it all together Oct 26 16:18:59 <dwmw2_BOS> the only access to 'special' machines is presumably to upload the resulting image -- and that only matters if you're desperate to keep the 'olpc.download.redhat.com' URL Oct 26 16:19:15 <c_scott> ok, let me back up. Oct 26 16:19:23 <c_scott> we've got a short-term crisis here: Oct 26 16:19:30 <c_scott> i'm currently responsible for far too much work at OLPC. Oct 26 16:19:47 <c_scott> i'm doing everything J5 used to do, plus lots of things other people used to do, and some stuff no one was previously doing. Oct 26 16:20:00 * dwmw2_BOS waits c_scott to get to the point Oct 26 16:20:17 <J5> c_scott: i.e. you guys need to hire someone Oct 26 16:20:34 <c_scott> Kim, Jim, and Walter think that we can address my short term insanity (freeing me to work on Yet More Things Which Urgently Need To Be Done) by reverting to the "J5" build process for the next two weeks. Oct 26 16:20:38 <dwmw2_BOS> J5: creating builds is just a simple matter of running (the right version of) pilgrim with the right configuration, right? Oct 26 16:20:46 <c_scott> The question is: can anyone other than J5 do that process? Oct 26 16:20:59 <J5> dwmw2_BOS: yes, plus doing the ChangeLogs which is a pain Oct 26 16:21:06 <dwmw2_BOS> those are done manually? Oct 26 16:21:11 <c_scott> J5, dwmw2_BOS: no this isn't true. Oct 26 16:21:11 <_bernie> dwmw2_BOS: yeah, I created builds myself this way Oct 26 16:21:11 <J5> c_scott: danw can Oct 26 16:21:18 <_bernie> dwmw2_BOS: on my desktop Oct 26 16:21:25 <_bernie> dwmw2_BOS: even before I had a fedora account Oct 26 16:21:36 <J5> dwmw2_BOS: ya, I never got around to automating it Oct 26 16:22:00 * DyDisMe has quit (Connection timed out) Oct 26 16:22:06 <_sj_> re Oct 26 16:22:42 <J5> c_scott: are you also talking about maintaining stable builds via push instead of pull? Oct 26 16:23:09 <J5> i.e. tagging RPMs to go into the release? Oct 26 16:23:22 <_bernie> dwmw2_BOS: the problem IMHO is *not* in the compose tool... if we want to push packages in koji... Oct 26 16:23:32 <_bernie> (talking with scott in person) Oct 26 16:24:25 <dwmw2_BOS> So in the short term, c_scott doesn't seem to care about the details -- he just wants someone to run pilgrim when needed (and manually do the changelogs) :) Oct 26 16:24:32 <_bernie> J5: we'd very much appreciate if somone with better understanding of the internal redhat process could help us for the time being Oct 26 16:24:41 <_bernie> that's to address the short term problem... Oct 26 16:24:48 <_bernie> we also have medium and long term problems... Oct 26 16:24:53 <_bernie> but this one is more urgent Oct 26 16:25:03 <dwmw2_BOS> J5: is there an issue with _where_ the packages come from? Are we being sensible and enforcing a policy that everything is in CVS and built through koji, so there's proper source access and everything's in a sane yum repo? Oct 26 16:25:14 <J5> _bernie: I'm gone in a week Oct 26 16:25:36 <J5> dwmw2_BOS: some packages aren't going through koji yet Oct 26 16:25:36 <_bernie> we're currently in the situation of choosing to distract people like c_scott from their duties OR get the builds done. Oct 26 16:25:54 <J5> _bernie: now you know how much work it was ;) Oct 26 16:26:04 <_bernie> J5: dan williams also did a few builds in the past. could he help, maybe? Oct 26 16:26:16 <_bernie> J5: i always did Oct 26 16:26:38 <marcopg> _bernie I don't think the process itself is very complicated Oct 26 16:26:48 <marcopg> _bernie it's matter of having someone that can actually focus on it Oct 26 16:26:51 <dwmw2_BOS> is it documented anywhere? Oct 26 16:27:04 <dwmw2_BOS> other than the changelogs, is any of it not automatable? Oct 26 16:27:06 <marcopg> _bernie I'm sure me or j5 or dcbw could help this person figure out the rh internal details Oct 26 16:27:07 <J5> so I sent you guys a person to hire Oct 26 16:27:13 <_bernie> marcopg: yes, for some of us it's not a matter of understanding Oct 26 16:27:25 <_bernie> marcopg: it's also a matter of time. it takes almost full-time commitment Oct 26 16:27:28 * erikos (n=erikos@e178211057.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #olpc-meeting Oct 26 16:27:50 <dwmw2_BOS> marcopg: there _are_ no rh-internal details, are there? Other than just uploading the result to olpc.download.redhat.com? Oct 26 16:28:04 <J5> _bernie: you guys have joyride running right? Oct 26 16:28:16 <J5> dwmw2_BOS: no there aren't any Oct 26 16:28:17 <marcopg> dwmw2_BOS: tagging packages Oct 26 16:28:37 <J5> dwmw2_BOS: marcopg, but that is a fedora thing we can give access to someone at OLPC Oct 26 16:28:38 <marcopg> assuming we want to do it the trial-3 way Oct 26 16:28:47 <marcopg> J5: right Oct 26 16:29:02 <marcopg> the real problem is having someone at olpc that can focus on this, ihmo Oct 26 16:29:07 <marcopg> anything else can be easily solved Oct 26 16:29:27 <_bernie> (syncing with cscott...) Oct 26 16:30:08 <f13> marcopg: tagging packages is /not/ RH specific Oct 26 16:30:15 <J5> _bernie: you could just have a mirrored repo and a script to pull in the changes you want Oct 26 16:30:37 <_bernie> J5: I installed koji on my devel machine Oct 26 16:30:50 <_bernie> J5: it turned out to be non-trivial to setup and keep running Oct 26 16:30:58 <dwmw2_BOS> as I see it, the ideal endpoint we want to get to is... Oct 26 16:30:59 <_bernie> J5: mbonnet and others helped me out a lot, though Oct 26 16:31:00 <marcopg> f13: I just meants that's something currently no one at olpc can do, but sure that can be fixed Oct 26 16:31:06 <J5> use that as a stable repo and have joyride build images as changes come in Oct 26 16:31:14 <dwmw2_BOS> OLPC folks can approve packages and branches to easily add stuff in the OLPC-2 collection Oct 26 16:31:42 <marcopg> _bernie I hope you are not even considering the idea to run your own koji instance for frs Oct 26 16:31:47 <dgilmore> dwmw2_BOS: that should be afirly easy to do Oct 26 16:31:48 <dwmw2_BOS> it's easy for _anyone_ to just run pilgrim^Wlivecd-tools to spit out an image pulling from that repo, and even add their own repos Oct 26 16:31:51 <J5> _bernie: but you don't even need koji for that. Oct 26 16:31:52 <marcopg> _bernie it's just too late and no one has time to get that done Oct 26 16:32:14 <dwmw2_BOS> (and ideally it'll be livecd-tools, I think, because that's what's used upstream and is maintained?) Oct 26 16:32:15 <_bernie> marcopg: (no, I'm more focused on mid-term issues) Oct 26 16:32:22 <_bernie> marcopg: I thought we were covered for FRS Oct 26 16:32:31 <_bernie> marcopg: until now, that is Oct 26 16:32:44 <J5> dwmw2_BOS: it is pilgrim, not LiveCD tools. It didn't have some features we needed Oct 26 16:32:47 <marcopg> _bernie *please* let's focus on short time until frs is over. The current status of things is an unbelivable mess Oct 26 16:33:08 <_bernie> J5: yes, I also added an extra yum repo to my builds in the past Oct 26 16:33:14 <_bernie> J5: I know how to do that Oct 26 16:33:15 <dwmw2_BOS> J5: livecd-tools doesn't have features we need? Surely that can be remedied? Oct 26 16:33:19 <_bernie> J5: and so does c_scott Oct 26 16:33:33 <J5> dwmw2_BOS: yes, just not in timeframe we had Oct 26 16:33:36 <_bernie> J5: the thing is... you said it!... it requires a lot of time Oct 26 16:33:44 <_bernie> J5: and it's not just time. Oct 26 16:33:45 <J5> _bernie: hire someone Oct 26 16:34:03 <m_stone> J5: may I cite Messr. Brooks here? Oct 26 16:34:05 <_bernie> J5: I can do the technical thing but I'd not accept the responsibility to be a build master Oct 26 16:34:13 <dwmw2_BOS> I still don't understand why builds take so much time. What people-time is involved other than creating the changelogs? Oct 26 16:34:19 <_bernie> m_stone: hehe Oct 26 16:34:29 <_bernie> J5: it takes time Oct 26 16:34:39 <_bernie> J5: it's not like hiring a janitor Oct 26 16:35:25 <m_stone> dwmw2_BOS: education, getting authorization to use servers referenced in the existing system or patching them out of pilgrim,... Oct 26 16:35:33 <_bernie> dwmw2_BOS: my opinion is that a script can make the builds, but it takes some human being to see how it comes out, remove the crap that doesn't work, etc... Oct 26 16:35:37 <f13> it doesn't seem like the needs initially are going to be much for this build master. Oct 26 16:35:40 <m_stone> dwmw2_BOS: answering questions about why it broke. Oct 26 16:35:46 <f13> and if it doesn't work out beyond the initial needs, find somebody else? Oct 26 16:36:06 <_bernie> m_stone: I think me and you are talking about different people in the process Oct 26 16:36:18 <m_stone> f13: the long and short of it is that we're really swamped. :) Oct 26 16:36:43 <_bernie> m_stone: I'm thinking about the build master... you're talking about the the packagers Oct 26 16:36:47 <f13> m_stone: I understand that, but I'm at a loss as to how we can help you more, other than by giving you a person. Oct 26 16:36:53 <m_stone> f13: I understand that. Oct 26 16:36:54 <f13> (which last I checked, I have no people to give (: ) Oct 26 16:37:08 <dwmw2_BOS> m_stone: regarding education: presumably j5 can hand off to someone or preferably document the process, in the time he has left. Oct 26 16:37:18 <J5> m_stone: _bernie already knows how to point it to other servers, both him marcopg and cscott know how to use pilgrim to build, joyride is already doing automatic builds from what I heard. It is just a matter of putting rpm's somewhere, running createrepo and changing the repo pilgrim points to Oct 26 16:37:22 <f13> We can make it so that whomever is doing the work has all the necessary rights and accesses to get the work done (correctly) Oct 26 16:37:27 <m_stone> f13: you've been enourmously helpful already, just by correcting misconceptions we had about the Fedora process and about how koji works. Oct 26 16:37:39 <dwmw2_BOS> m_stone: authorisation shouldn't be an issue for anything but uploading the final results, should it? Apart from tagging packages into the OLPC-2 collection which I think _bernie and other people can already do? Oct 26 16:37:50 <m_stone> dwmw2_BOS: activities need it right now too. Oct 26 16:38:04 <dwmw2_BOS> m_stone: elucidate? Oct 26 16:38:20 <m_stone> http://olpc.download.redhat.com/activities/ Oct 26 16:38:21 <_bernie> J5: now cscott is again away... last thing he told me is that we lack time to do all these things Oct 26 16:38:23 <marcopg> m_stone: just move that to d.l.o Oct 26 16:38:28 <m_stone> marcopg: as you stated. Oct 26 16:38:36 <marcopg> m_stone: and you solved this for the short time Oct 26 16:38:39 <m_stone> And as I stated, and have written in the email sitting in front of me. Oct 26 16:38:44 <J5> _bernie: but isn't joyride doing that stuff already? Oct 26 16:39:52 <J5> in which case you could just move rpms into the tmp repo Oct 26 16:40:56 <_bernie> J5: the joyride builds are hard to stabilize unless we re-route them through cvs -> koji -> static-repo Oct 26 16:41:35 <marcopg> _bernie we just need someone that can spend a couple of hours a day doing the work j5 was doing Oct 26 16:41:35 <f13> oh yeah, we can make the static-repo link refresh more often too if that will help you, although there are dangers in that. Oct 26 16:41:45 <dwmw2_BOS> _bernie: of course. We shouldn't include _anything_ which isn't in CVS and koji. Oct 26 16:41:55 <marcopg> _bernie what takes time is the manual process, and we need someone to take care of that Oct 26 16:42:06 <marcopg> _bernie but clearly not cscott or mstone Oct 26 16:42:34 * dulouz has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]") Oct 26 16:42:37 <_bernie> dwmw2_BOS: at this time, if we exclude everything which is not in koji, we revert to build 619 Oct 26 16:42:43 <_bernie> (or whatever the last build is) Oct 26 16:42:57 <dwmw2_BOS> marcopg: by 'the manual process' you mean tagging packages into the appropriate collection, then running pilgrim? (and writing the changelog) Oct 26 16:43:02 <_bernie> dwmw2_BOS: all the development we've done later on sits in public_rpms/ Oct 26 16:43:10 <_bernie> marcopg: is that right or close-to right? Oct 26 16:43:13 <dwmw2_BOS> _bernie: well, that can be remedied quite quickly, presumably? Oct 26 16:43:26 <dwmw2_BOS> and was exceedingly bad practice. Oct 26 16:43:34 <_bernie> dwmw2_BOS: probably, yes. Oct 26 16:43:35 <marcopg> dwmw2_BOS: yeah, that and uploading the activity bundles which activity authors put in trac Oct 26 16:43:36 <J5> _bernie: well that is the danger of not going through the build systems. koji might have been a bit of overhead but it enforced policy Oct 26 16:44:23 <dwmw2_BOS> so, in the _short_ term (i.e. in the next day or so) we could make sure that all current packages are actually committed and built through koji, so they appear in the repos? Oct 26 16:44:42 <dwmw2_BOS> apart, perhaps, from the activity bundles which we can put into a static repo elsewhere which pilgrim pulls from? Oct 26 16:45:06 <dwmw2_BOS> and joyride could run hourly, pulling from those but _not_ /home/*/public_rpms, and give us 'standard' builds without changelogs? Oct 26 16:45:33 <J5> _bernie: you know this shouldn't have come up. I kept telling everyone to call me and I would come in and help you guys with migrating the build systems but no one ever did and I am going to be gone for a month now. Oct 26 16:45:35 <dwmw2_BOS> dgilmore: would you be willing to help babysit that? Oct 26 16:45:36 <_bernie> dgilmore: sorry, I just noticed reading the backlog that you said "I can do it" Oct 26 16:45:54 <dgilmore> dwmw2_BOS: sure i willhave some time this weekend i could do some work Oct 26 16:46:26 <dwmw2_BOS> that's great; thanks Oct 26 16:46:59 <dgilmore> _bernie: if you get me SRPMS i can check them ina nd build them Oct 26 16:48:38 <dwmw2_BOS> so, the way forward, as I see it: Oct 26 16:49:00 <J5> dgilmore: there are a couple of packages still under review and the marvel wireless firmware needs to be submitted Oct 26 16:49:12 <dwmw2_BOS> we modify (or run another copy of) the 'joyride' system which runs pilgrim hourly, so it pulls just from OLPC-2 collection and some static repo which has activities in. Oct 26 16:49:30 <dwmw2_BOS> we take the newer packages which are currently lying around, and make sure they get into the OLPC-2 collection (with dgilmore's help -- thanks!) Oct 26 16:49:31 <_bernie> J5: for taboo things like binary blobs we can still use the tmp repos, can't we? Oct 26 16:49:32 <dgilmore> J5: i can look at and approve them and could submit the firmware Oct 26 16:49:34 <dwmw2_BOS> profit. Oct 26 16:49:56 <dwmw2_BOS> ongoing, we just need to be able to tag packages for OLPC-2 and detag them if they offend us -- which we can already do, right? Oct 26 16:50:10 <dwmw2_BOS> and ideally add new packages quite easily, but we have the static repo for that, for now. Oct 26 16:50:20 <dwmw2_BOS> anyone see any problems with that? Oct 26 16:50:40 <J5> dgilmore: etoys is still in review because the author doesn't want to sign the nda Oct 26 16:50:41 <dgilmore> J5: do you have a list of what is under review? Oct 26 16:50:46 <J5> sorry not nda Oct 26 16:50:51 <dgilmore> CLA? Oct 26 16:50:51 <J5> the cla Oct 26 16:50:54 <J5> ya Oct 26 16:50:57 <_bernie> nda? Oct 26 16:51:00 <marcopg> dwmw2_BOS: activities are not rpms Oct 26 16:51:00 <J5> CLA Oct 26 16:51:00 <dwmw2_BOS> ideally, we'd want to be able to upload the results to olpc.download.redhat.com -- but that isn't really a showstopper (and I can probably be given access for that anyway) Oct 26 16:51:08 <f13> I can make it so that any fedora packager can tag/untag things from olpc-2 Oct 26 16:51:14 <J5> _bernie: Contributors license agreement Oct 26 16:51:16 <f13> (basically unlock the tag) Oct 26 16:51:23 <_bernie> J5: we talked about the CLA yesterday Oct 26 16:51:32 <m_stone> dwmw2_BOS: marcopg is correct that we can patch olpc.download.redhat.com out of pilgrim in short order. Oct 26 16:51:37 <_bernie> J5: it seemed we could have an exception for OLPC.... Oct 26 16:51:40 <_bernie> J5: *seemed* Oct 26 16:51:43 <dwmw2_BOS> f13: 'any member of olpc group' would be better, if that's technically possible, but I think 'any packager' is probably OK too Oct 26 16:52:03 <dwmw2_BOS> m_stone: indeed. I was just mentioning it since it seemed to be so much of an issue to some :) Oct 26 16:52:04 <f13> dwmw2_BOS: it might be possible, but in reality, nobody cares about it but the olpc groups Oct 26 16:52:10 <_bernie> J5: the reason being that RH does not really distribute these RPMs... they just receive them from us and return back to us Oct 26 16:52:15 <dwmw2_BOS> f13: fair enough Oct 26 16:52:27 <f13> _bernie: erm, nto quite. Oct 26 16:52:34 <J5> _bernie: we do distribute them Oct 26 16:52:35 <f13> _bernie: they're on koji which is a public distribution point. Oct 26 16:52:40 <_bernie> f13: (lemme re-read the irc log) Oct 26 16:52:47 <_sj_> dgilmore: thanks! Oct 26 16:52:48 <_bernie> f13: ah, I see. Oct 26 16:52:53 <J5> _bernie: and some of them may go into Fedora or a spin of fedora Oct 26 16:52:58 <m_stone> dwmw2_BOS: I'm fine with patching pilgrim. I'm not fine with patching pilgrim without serious review of the patches, preferably by c_scott. Oct 26 16:53:03 * dwmw2_BOS sends beer and a couple of ultra5s to dgilmore Oct 26 16:53:04 <f13> my comment about the CLA was that there could be a cla_olpc that blanket covers any OLPC employee/contractor. Oct 26 16:53:07 <_sj_> j5: what happens if there isn't a cla agreement? they can't be included through this build process? Oct 26 16:53:29 <dwmw2_BOS> m_stone: er, did we talk about patching pilgrim? Oct 26 16:53:42 <J5> _sj_: the author can not access the Fedora systems Oct 26 16:53:45 <dwmw2_BOS> changing the urls it pulls from doesn't count as patching, sirely? Oct 26 16:53:50 <f13> I'd be worried if they won't sign the cla. Without something like a cla how can you be assured that the person has the legal right to contribute said code to an opensource distribution? Oct 26 16:54:07 <dgilmore> dwmw2_BOS: i appreciate the root beer and U5's Oct 26 16:54:08 <J5> _sj_: so you can designate someone to do the contribution who has signed the cla Oct 26 16:55:18 <J5> f13: fear of the CLA is due to its legalese even though it just syays you guarantee what you submit can be distributed by Red Hat and Fedora Oct 26 16:55:25 <_sj_> got it Oct 26 16:55:43 <_bernie> (sorry, I'm being distracted too) Oct 26 16:55:59 <_bernie> here I am Oct 26 16:56:20 <_bernie> f13: yes, I guess that would be fine Oct 26 16:56:33 <f13> J5: yeah, there has to be legalese at some point. if there was cla_olpc, OLPC employees and/or contractors wouldn't see the Red hat specific legalese, but would see something regarding the work they do belonging to OLPC or what not, and OLPC itself having an agreement with Red Hat regarding distribution of the software. Oct 26 16:56:55 <f13> J5: (we have this already for say cla_redhat, cla_dell, and I think there is one more) Oct 26 16:57:07 <J5> y Oct 26 16:57:08 <J5> ya Oct 26 16:57:14 <dgilmore> f13: cla_ibm Oct 26 16:57:38 <f13> J5: it becomes OLPC's responsibilty that the employee/contractor knows whats going on and whatnot, but RH can be safe in that if the person is in cla_olpc, they're good to go. Oct 26 16:57:42 <f13> dgilmore: ah thanks. Oct 26 16:58:28 <_bernie> f13, J5: I think this particular issue is to be discussed with jg (and Alan Key maybe) Oct 26 16:58:40 <J5> f13: we should have the freedom law center vet it to ease peoples minds Oct 26 16:58:58 <_bernie> J5: you said you'll be with us one more week, did you? Oct 26 16:59:00 <f13> yeah, this really feels like middle-term work though Oct 26 16:59:07 <dwmw2_BOS> djbclark: please could you give dgilmore an account on dev.laptop.org? Oct 26 16:59:51 <_bernie> m_stone is showing joyride to dwmw2_BOS. Oct 26 17:00:00 <_bernie> he apparently had never seen it Oct 26 17:03:17 >f13< sorry there's much offline talking Oct 26 17:03:23 >f13< we're a bit confused Oct 26 17:05:33 <dwmw2_BOS> ok, so for the record and to verify my understanding. Our "official" build #617 is still based solely on what's in the OLPC-2 collection, along with the non-RPM activities? Oct 26 17:05:49 <m_stone> dwmw2_BOS: that is my understanding. Oct 26 17:05:52 <dwmw2_BOS> we have local 'joyride' builds which also pull in packages from /var/www/sugar/rpms/ on dev.laptop.org (and some less important stuff from home directories) Oct 26 17:05:53 <J5> build 621 is coming out soon Oct 26 17:06:08 <dwmw2_BOS> J5: but still includes only stuff in OLPC-2 (+ activities) Oct 26 17:06:09 <dwmw2_BOS> ? Oct 26 17:06:17 <m_stone> dwmw2_BOS: #6?? includes OLPC-2 + /var/www/sugar/rpms. Oct 26 17:06:19 <J5> dwmw2_BOS: olpc2-trial3 Oct 26 17:06:40 <dwmw2_BOS> m_stone: oh. j5 is pulling from there too? Oct 26 17:06:41 <m_stone> dwmw2_BOS: that repo is named 'olpc-devel-tmp' Oct 26 17:06:51 <m_stone> dwmw2_BOS: I believe so. J5? Oct 26 17:07:48 <marcopg> m_stone: he is Oct 26 17:07:56 <dwmw2_BOS> where might we find the _sources_ to these binary packages? Oct 26 17:08:18 <_bernie> dgilmore: you said you could work full-time to help us with the builds? Oct 26 17:08:20 <marcopg> dwmw2_BOS: for many of them you can't Oct 26 17:08:38 <_bernie> dgilmore: you were one of the koji developers, right? Oct 26 17:08:39 <marcopg> dwmw2_BOS: some are in kojy, some in random dirs on d.l.o Oct 26 17:08:49 <dgilmore> _bernie: indeed i could. I am not a RH employee Oct 26 17:09:07 <marcopg> dwmw2_BOS: and some are just on the machine of whoever built them Oct 26 17:09:13 <_bernie> dgilmore: oh, I was worried there would have been a conflict otherwise. Oct 26 17:09:27 <dgilmore> _bernie: and im currently looking at options that are out there as my work has started migrating to a platform i dont agree with Oct 26 17:09:39 <_bernie> dwmw2_BOS: for mine, they're where the binaries are. Oct 26 17:09:40 <dwmw2_BOS> ok. So the task for the weekend, which dgilmore seems to have volunteered for and which I shall assist with, involves looking to see who _owns_ each binary package, then applying percussive persuasion to that person in order to find the patches (and maybe even the reasoning for them), then getting it into cvs and koji and olpc-2 Oct 26 17:09:42 <f13> dgilmore: ubuntu? (: Oct 26 17:10:02 <djbclark> dwmw2_BOS: sure. you are dwmw2 as username I presume? also, can I get your and dgilmore's full name and email addresses, and a list of projects you need write access to? Just send that stuff off to danny@laptop.org Oct 26 17:10:04 <dgilmore> _bernie: i help look after fedora koji. i have submitted some patches and i am the prinicipal person working on secondary archs Oct 26 17:10:21 <_bernie> dgilmore: :-) Oct 26 17:10:52 <dgilmore> f13: worse Oct 26 17:10:53 <m_stone> dwmw2_BOS: for people who have their SRPMS handy (like me), where should we put them? Oct 26 17:11:26 <dgilmore> danny im Dennis Gilmore dgilmore@fedoraproject.org Oct 26 17:11:47 <dwmw2_BOS> djbclark: I have an account already -- it's dgilmore who needs it Oct 26 17:11:49 <dgilmore> m_stone: somewhere i can grab them from Oct 26 17:11:57 <f13> _bernie: have you been shown cvs-import.sh ? Oct 26 17:12:28 <djbclark> dgilmore: oh okay, so just email me your ssh public key, and what projects you want access to Oct 26 17:12:28 <m_stone> (_bernie is chatting with jg and c_scott) Oct 26 17:12:37 <marcopg> dwmw2_BOS: for joyride, we had already got rid of the tmp rpm Oct 26 17:12:48 <_bernie> ok, back from chatting Oct 26 17:12:49 <dgilmore> djbclark: ok i really dont know what projects ill need access to Oct 26 17:12:50 <dwmw2_BOS> marcopg: que? Oct 26 17:13:04 <_bernie> dgilmore: you're located south of chicago, are you? Oct 26 17:13:04 <marcopg> dwmw2_BOS: of the tmp yum repository Oct 26 17:13:10 <dgilmore> _bernie: yes Oct 26 17:13:17 <marcopg> dwmw2_BOS: all of these packages are in public_rpms Oct 26 17:13:34 <marcopg> dwmw2_BOS: most of them in the one of the people which actually own/build these packages Oct 26 17:13:51 <_bernie> dgilmore: that could be an issue... doing integration off-site may be a problem. Oct 26 17:13:55 <djbclark> dgilmore: k cool just ignore that bit and ping me when you know Oct 26 17:15:02 <marcopg> but well if the plan is to restart from 620... I guess that's not really useful Oct 26 17:15:18 <_bernie> dgilmore: anyway, let's talk about it after the meeting Oct 26 17:15:44 <dgilmore> _bernie: ok Oct 26 17:15:57 <m_stone> dgilmore: my srpms are at http://dev.laptop.org/~mstone/releases/SRPMS/ Oct 26 17:16:44 >c_scott< wanna let you know that I appreciate all the work you're doing for OLPC. I'm catually surprised how much pressure you can take. Oct 26 17:16:47 <m_stone> the relevant ones are pyvserver-1.0-0.3.fc7.src.rpm and rainbow-0.6.6-1.fc7.src.rpm Oct 26 17:17:13 <m_stone> I look forward to learning how they should have been handled in the first place. Oct 26 17:17:15 <dgilmore> m_stone: great ill grab them tonight Oct 26 17:17:18 >c_scott< even if we have disagreement on a few points, I think the goal is the same Oct 26 17:17:47 <_bernie> f13: yes... I used it a couple of times Oct 26 17:17:53 <dgilmore> J5: do you have a list of OLPC packages needing review still Oct 26 17:17:53 <f13> ok. Oct 26 17:18:02 <f13> it can make getting new builds into koji really quick and easy Oct 26 17:18:05 <_bernie> f13: can it create new modules in cvs too? Oct 26 17:18:13 <f13> _bernie: no, due to some ACL stuff. Oct 26 17:18:35 <f13> _bernie: but you can use it to import new versions of packages to existing branches. Oct 26 17:18:42 <f13> isntead of manually uploading the tarball and checking in a new spec Oct 26 17:19:40 <_bernie> f13: ah... cool! Oct 26 17:20:27 <f13> _bernie: basically Cd to the module/branch you want to import the build on, then do ../common/cvs-import.sh foo.src.rpm and it'll import it onto that branch Oct 26 17:20:32 <f13> cvs up; make build; profit. Oct 26 17:20:39 <_bernie> today I think we made an important point. Oct 26 17:20:45 <_bernie> f13, c_scott, dwmw2_BOS, cjb, J5, m_stone, marcopg, dgilmore: are we all positive that over the next few days we'll try to push as many of the "rogue" rpms we have in joyride to koji.fedoraproject.org ? Oct 26 17:21:33 <m_stone> that is my understanding. Oct 26 17:21:33 <marcopg> dgilmore: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=343741 I'd need to get this one into the build, but no reviews yet Oct 26 17:21:42 <_bernie> this means that whatever compose system we use, we'll get the same input rpms and they'd be built with a stable process, and source will be in cvs.fedoraproject.org. Oct 26 17:21:46 <m_stone> I do not understand what we want to do with activities and their source code. Oct 26 17:21:47 <marcopg> _bernie I'm all for it Oct 26 17:22:03 <_bernie> m_stone: good question :-) Oct 26 17:22:22 <_bernie> m_stone: they have exactly the same problem of RPMs... indeed. Oct 26 17:22:40 <_bernie> well, this is a problem we had before and we still have now Oct 26 17:22:58 <_bernie> since it's not a "regression" of the last few weeks, I'd say let's manage it another time :-) Oct 26 17:22:58 * erikos has quit ("Leaving") Oct 26 17:23:00 <marcopg> _bernie we need to at least solve the problem of how these goes into the builds Oct 26 17:23:03 <m_stone> We don't have to solve it now. Oct 26 17:23:15 <m_stone> I'm really thinking of how to write this email that marcopg asked me to write. Oct 26 17:23:17 <marcopg> and my proposal for that is to just move them on d.l.o Oct 26 17:23:19 <_bernie> marcopg: yes. Oct 26 17:23:22 <m_stone> Which I'm fine with. Oct 26 17:23:37 <_bernie> marcopg: agreed. who can physically do it? Oct 26 17:23:46 <m_stone> me. Oct 26 17:23:58 <m_stone> I just download the ones presently on olpc.download.redhat.com. Oct 26 17:24:02 <_bernie> marcopg: c_scott specifically asked to be kept free for his higher FRS priorities. Oct 26 17:24:12 <marcopg> m_stone: I can prolly do that more easily if you want Oct 26 17:24:12 <_bernie> do we all agree m_stone will do that? Oct 26 17:24:28 <marcopg> m_stone: since I have ssh there Oct 26 17:24:32 <_bernie> So it's marcopg VS m_stone Oct 26 17:24:33 <m_stone> marcopg: i'll take care of it. consider it incentive for me to actually get those patches merged. Oct 26 17:24:34 <_bernie> it's on!!! Oct 26 17:24:36 <dgilmore> marcopg: i took that bug Oct 26 17:24:42 <m_stone> marcopg: I was going to do what J5 does: wget -R Oct 26 17:24:47 <marcopg> m_stone: fine with me :) Oct 26 17:24:55 <marcopg> m_stone: ooh nice, that works Oct 26 17:25:04 <marcopg> dgilmore: thanks! Oct 26 17:27:48 <_bernie> can we say the meeting is over for today? Oct 26 17:28:00 <_bernie> I think we have the most important things sorted out Oct 26 17:28:11 <marcopg> one thing before we do Oct 26 17:28:13 <dgilmore> _bernie: i think so Oct 26 17:28:17 <_bernie> and it's one of those rare moments where everyone seem to agree with each other Oct 26 17:28:18 <_bernie>  :-) Oct 26 17:28:28 <marcopg> are we planning to base this on the trial-3 static repo? Oct 26 17:28:45 <m_stone> yes. Oct 26 17:28:48 <_bernie> marcopg: ah, you had to ruin everything with this question! Oct 26 17:28:56 <_bernie> haha Oct 26 17:28:58 <marcopg> heh Oct 26 17:29:09 <_bernie> marcopg: yes, I think so too. Oct 26 17:29:10 <m_stone> why do you ask? Oct 26 17:29:10 <dwmw2_BOS> what is in the trial-3 static repo that isn't in the OLPC-2 collection (... and why?) Oct 26 17:29:38 <_bernie> if we fetch the stuff we have in joyride and push it to koji, we re-add the features one at a time Oct 26 17:29:40 <marcopg> dwmw2_BOS: my understanding is that trial-3 was forked out from OLPC-2 at some point Oct 26 17:30:02 <marcopg> dwmw2_BOS: and then packages in OLPC-2 needed to be tagged to get into trial-3 Oct 26 17:30:10 <_bernie> marcopg, dwmw2_BOS: who will do the tagging/untagging work? Oct 26 17:30:30 <marcopg> dwmw2_BOS: so, for example, trial-3 doesn't have the fedora updates Oct 26 17:30:43 <_bernie> marcopg, dwmw2_BOS: which is another way to say: "who'll be making 50% of the decisions build master does?" Oct 26 17:31:56 <marcopg> _bernie thought we decided to just include everything that gets built into OLPC-2 Oct 26 17:32:24 * J5__ (i=quintice@nat/redhat/x-11a1d490d36c43fe) has joined #olpc-meeting Oct 26 17:32:47 <marcopg> _bernie and hence use OLPC-2 rather than trial-3 as a base Oct 26 17:33:24 <dwmw2_BOS> that makes sense, unless it means we pull in scary updates from dist-f7-updates and that makes us unhappy? Oct 26 17:35:01 <marcopg> pullling in updates automatically is sort of scary Oct 26 17:35:20 <f13> erm. Oct 26 17:35:29 * J5 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Oct 26 17:35:29 <marcopg> maybe it's possible to require these to be tagged to get into OLPC-2 instead? f13? Oct 26 17:35:44 <f13> that's the whole point of a freeze tag Oct 26 17:35:53 <f13> that's what trial3 was about, requires tagging to get into it Oct 26 17:36:16 <f13> we can create another "trial3" like tag, or refresh trial3 with all the latest stuff in dist-olpc2 as of "moment in time" and update it on demand with specific builds. Oct 26 17:36:33 <marcopg> f13: right. But we don't currently have anyone that can do the tagging manually Oct 26 17:36:40 <dwmw2_BOS> don't we? Oct 26 17:37:01 <marcopg> well Oct 26 17:37:02 <marcopg> (11:23:22 PM) _bernie: marcopg, dwmw2_BOS: who will do the tagging/untagging work? Oct 26 17:37:15 <marcopg> if someone can answer that question we do I guess ;) Oct 26 17:37:22 <f13> decide who will do the tagging or more importantly the /deciding/ of what to tag. Oct 26 17:37:37 <dwmw2_BOS> well, strcmp("can","will"). ideally, any of us _can_ do it. Oct 26 17:37:45 <dwmw2_BOS> and that means that more of us _will_ do it when we need to Oct 26 17:37:48 <_bernie> f13: this brings up the next point in the list Oct 26 17:37:49 <f13> I can make it so just about anybody can do the act of tagging, bu the more important question is who is going to decide /what/ to tag? Oct 26 17:37:56 <_bernie> f13: which is maybe too late to discuss Oct 26 17:38:02 <f13> it's late for me :/ Oct 26 17:38:10 <dwmw2_BOS> how does that work at the moment? j5 just makes arbitrary decisions with no input? Oct 26 17:38:12 <_bernie> f13: but it was: ability to create short-lived dist tags for experimental or integration streams such as "olpc-xtest", "olpc-sugar", "olpc-trial4", and so on [bernie] Oct 26 17:38:23 <dwmw2_BOS> people build new packages and just wait around and hope that j5 notices them and decides to include them? Oct 26 17:38:28 <marcopg> dwmw2_BOS: during code freeze jim and kim approve stuff that goes in Oct 26 17:38:36 <marcopg> dwmw2_BOS: and j5 get in only approved stuff Oct 26 17:38:38 <dwmw2_BOS> right. There's your answer then. Oct 26 17:38:44 <_bernie> f13: yes, let's talk about it another time Oct 26 17:38:54 <dwmw2_BOS> jim and kim can tag the builds they want rather than telling j5 to do so Oct 26 17:38:55 <_bernie> f13: I'm sure it's trivial to address Oct 26 17:39:06 <_bernie> dwmw2_BOS: that would be great Oct 26 17:39:24 <marcopg> dwmw2_BOS: sounds good to me Oct 26 17:39:30 <_bernie> dwmw2_BOS: if we kan jive them the koji acls they need Oct 26 17:39:40 <dwmw2_BOS> I think we might need them to get accounts first. Oct 26 17:39:51 <f13> yes, they need accounts. Oct 26 17:39:59 <f13> and sponsors, but we can easily fudge the sponsor thing. Oct 26 17:40:10 <_bernie> f13: I'll ask them to go through the fedora user account process then Oct 26 17:40:12 <f13> we'll leave the 'freeze tag' unlocked so as valid account holders they can do tagging. Oct 26 17:40:15 <dwmw2_BOS> I can sponsor them, can't I? Oct 26 17:40:16 <_bernie> is that fine with everybody? Oct 26 17:40:26 <f13> dwmw2_BOS: are you a sponsor in the account system? (if not we cna probably fix that) Oct 26 17:40:27 <dwmw2_BOS> makes sense. Oct 26 17:40:27 <_bernie> dwmw2_BOS: thanks Oct 26 17:40:42 <dwmw2_BOS> f13: I don't remember. I think so, but ICBW Oct 26 17:40:44 <f13> I have to go talk to some other people about a beta release today, sorry droping out. Oct 26 17:40:56 <dwmw2_BOS> f13: ok, thanks much! Oct 26 17:41:05 <f13> np Oct 26 17:41:06 <marcopg> _bernie are we ok with no changelogs for now? (well except for automatic rpm diff) Oct 26 17:42:31 <_bernie> that would require jg and kim to sign the CLA Oct 26 17:43:12 <_bernie> marcopg: well we have the old changelogs, don't we? Oct 26 17:43:35 <marcopg> _bernie well, j5 manually put together the old changelogs Oct 26 17:43:35 <_bernie> marcopg: I'd like them, but it's a completely orthogonal issue Oct 26 17:43:48 <_bernie> me thinks Oct 26 17:43:55 <_bernie> marcopg: MANUALLY? Oct 26 17:44:04 <marcopg> yeah manually Oct 26 17:44:05 <_bernie> marcopg: no, I think he had some script Oct 26 17:44:11 <_bernie> J5__: really? Oct 26 17:44:14 <f13> no, he said manually Oct 26 17:44:27 <_bernie> ah, I see. Oct 26 17:44:31 <marcopg> _bernie I doubt since I send him my changelog by mail Oct 26 17:44:35 <marcopg> sent Oct 26 17:45:00 <f13> 16:20 <J5> dwmw2_BOS: yes, plus doing the ChangeLogs which is a pain Oct 26 17:45:03 <f13> 16:21 <J5> dwmw2_BOS: ya, I never got around to automating it Oct 26 17:45:22 <marcopg> maybe we could have people which build rpms add entries to a wiki page or something Oct 26 17:45:36 <marcopg> not sure how well it would work out but... it would be better than nothing Oct 26 17:46:10 <marcopg> that + automatic packages diff might be good enough Oct 26 17:47:55 <_bernie> jg and dwmw2_BOS are discussing the CLA Oct 26 17:48:45 <_bernie> until the CLA issues are sorted out, do we really need it also for people who can only tag/untag packates? Oct 26 17:48:53 <f13> yes Oct 26 17:49:08 <f13> but we could identify maybe somebody else that can do the tagging since it's very quick steps/ Oct 26 17:49:10 <_bernie> I'm looking for alternatives Oct 26 17:49:12 <f13>  ? Oct 26 17:49:19 <_bernie> f13: I can do it Oct 26 17:49:25 <_bernie> f13: I volunteer Oct 26 17:49:37 <marcopg> I think we can also trust people that builds rpms to do it Oct 26 17:49:40 <f13> koji tag-pkg olpc-trial4 name-version-release Oct 26 17:49:45 <marcopg> once they got approval from jim and kim Oct 26 17:49:49 <f13> marcopg: you can do that too. Oct 26 17:49:57 <_bernie> it does not involve build master responsibility because I'd been told what to tag by my superiors anyway Oct 26 17:49:57 <f13> question I have. Oct 26 17:50:11 <f13> are you going to re-use olpc-trial3 or are you going to want a new tag/url? Oct 26 17:50:30 <_bernie> marcopg: yes, that's what you thought me about the sugar development process Oct 26 17:50:40 <marcopg> f13: I guess a new tag would be good Oct 26 17:50:51 <marcopg> f13: in case we need to do new images based on trial-3 Oct 26 17:50:55 <_bernie> marcopg: the key is not the actual commit access Oct 26 17:51:06 <marcopg> f13: can the tag "inherit" from trial-3 though? Oct 26 17:51:25 <f13> I can do that, seems odd though. Oct 26 17:51:27 * dulouz (n=chatzill@user-0c9hc73.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #olpc-meeting Oct 26 17:51:33 <_bernie> marcopg: as long as there's strong editorial control over what goes in the builds Oct 26 17:51:37 <marcopg> f13: it is :) Oct 26 17:51:42 <f13> you want to keep the trail-3 collection frozen, and just add things on top of it somewhere else? Oct 26 17:51:47 <_bernie> which is what I've always been begging for. Oct 26 17:51:50 <marcopg> it's just that Oct 26 17:52:31 <f13> marcopg: was that directed at me? Oct 26 17:52:48 <marcopg> trial-3 seem to have newer alsa-lib than OLPC-2 for example Oct 26 17:52:57 <f13> that seems... strange. Oct 26 17:53:04 * f13 wonders how that was accomplished :/ Oct 26 17:54:02 <marcopg> f13: not sure, maybe we tagged a build which has not yet been pushed in the f7 updates? Oct 26 17:54:06 <f13> $ koji list-tags --build alsa-lib-1.0.14-4.fc7 Oct 26 17:54:06 <f13> dist-fc7-override Oct 26 17:54:06 <f13> dist-fc7-updates-candidate Oct 26 17:54:06 <f13> olpc2-trial3 Oct 26 17:54:41 <f13> it's a canidate update, that hasn't been pushed out stable yet. Oct 26 17:54:45 <marcopg> right Oct 26 17:55:13 <f13> ok, do you want this new collection to have allof current dist-olpc2, plus trial3 ? Oct 26 17:55:20 <f13> (or that as of say Monday? Oct 26 17:55:42 <marcopg> f13: that make sense to me Oct 26 17:55:53 <marcopg> m_stone: _bernie what do you think? Oct 26 17:56:42 <f13> and do you want this tag to self update whenever trial3 gets updated (or is trial3 completely static not changing ever again?) Oct 26 17:57:55 <marcopg> trial3 *might* change Oct 26 17:58:17 <marcopg> so if we can avoid changes in trial3 to update this tag, that would be better Oct 26 17:58:25 <f13> sure. Oct 26 17:58:34 <f13> we'll just copy from trial3 to this tag instead of setting up inheritance. Oct 26 17:59:00 <marcopg> sounds good Oct 26 17:59:10 <f13> anyway, I'm late for teh bus, and won't be around much tonight. I'll happily setup whatever holding tag you'll need on Monday, if that's not too late for you. Oct 26 17:59:31 <marcopg> f13: that works I think, thanks! Oct 26 17:59:52 <f13> np Oct 26 18:04:59 * unmadindu has quit ("Ex-Chat") Oct 26 18:36:45 <_bernie> marcopg: sorry, I was afk Oct 26 18:36:54 <_bernie> marcopg: let me catch up Oct 26 18:48:01 <marcopg> _bernie there is still way too much undefined. Oct 26 18:48:29 <marcopg> _bernie We need to sort out the changelog process and who is responsible of actually running off the builds (pilgrim) Oct 26 18:50:32 <marcopg> more than anything else we need someone with at least a bit of time to lead this thing