View source for XS Conf 08 AUG 07 Meeting

Time: Thursday 10PM US ET, 7:45AM Nepal - and Friday 2PM in NZ: 
http://worldtimeserver.com/meeting-planner-times.aspx?&L0=NZ&L1=NP&L2=GB&L3=US-MA&L4=&Day=8&Mon=8&Y=2008

= Where? =

The main location will be irc.freenode.net #olpc-meeting -- I would also recommend having  [http://gobby.0x539.de/trac/ Gobby] installed, as we may try to use that.

If we're really few and people have skype we can try that too.

* Martin's skype id is martin_langhoff

= Agenda =

General development
* xs-0.4 progress and goals - target date: 25th Aug 2008
* xs-0.5 goals - target date: end of sept
* New install vs upgrades
* USB disk
** Desirable usage scenarios... ("plug a hd with a special signature to backup user data?")
** Tailing logs...
* Fedora 9 upgrade - blockers and work to do
* Getting Moodle & webapps on XS
* How do we identify teachers?
* Disaster Recovery -- RAID or not to RAID?
* Challenges in deployments (Peru, Rwanda)
** Many requests for VoIP, IM from teachers
** If teachers don't have use for XS, it won't be taken care of according to our experience in Nepal [[User:Berrybw|Berrybw]] 11:22, 14 August 2008 (UTC) 

Nepal team
* Customized Nepali version of Moodle
* Mail server using Squirrel Mail
* Setting up a local version of Nepal's E-Library on the XS, a copy of Nepal's current E-Library  http://pustakalaya.olenepal.org which uses the open-source fedora-commons repository software.
* Connecting schools through ejabberd


= Minutes =

TBA

= IRC Log =

(07:55:31 AM) martin_xsa: so the agenda xs-0.4 and xs-0.5
(07:55:38 AM) martin_xsa: ah, yes. XS meeting :-)
(07:55:51 AM) kimquirk: ah... i thought that was monday afternoons
(07:56:17 AM) kimquirk: m_stone: did you talk to joe tonight?
(07:56:24 AM) martin_xsa: this is with the Nepal team :-) - monday's more internal (so far)
(07:56:35 AM) kimquirk: martin_xsa: thanks. I'll be quiet.
(07:56:46 AM) martin_xsa: you're more than welcome to be here :-)
(07:56:59 AM) kimquirk: :-)
(07:57:02 AM) Nubae: so we should probably try and stick to the agenda rightÇ?
(07:57:14 AM) martin_xsa: agenda and otherdetails at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS_Conf_08_AUG_07_Meeting
(07:57:25 AM) Nubae: martin_xsa: how do u wanna do this? q and a?
(07:57:42 AM) martin_xsa: yes. I don't want to drag it too long. So I'll be quick in my update
(07:58:25 AM) martin_xsa: Douglas and I are working towards 2 releases: .4 - target 25th Aug and .5 target end of sept
(07:59:06 AM) martin_xsa: the .4 release will be the recommended partner for 8.2.0 on the laptop, so we are working to address any interop bugs
(07:59:09 AM) martin_xsa: that has priority,
(07:59:56 AM) martin_xsa: I was planning to do .4 at end of aug, but Kim's asked that we aim for the 25th so that it fits with the XO testing schedule
(08:00:02 AM) martin_xsa: for xo-8.2.0
(08:01:15 AM) martin_xsa: What we do have in .4 is the rigging to auto-install things and perform actions when USB drives are connected
(08:01:21 AM) Nubae: okin terms of xo testing... we have still be unable to register the xos via ejabberd without sugar-control-panel
(08:01:47 AM) Nubae: and we've tried both nepalee builds and non-nepali builds
(08:02:26 AM) martin_xsa: Nubae, from what you mentioned earlier in the list, there was something misconfigured in the builds or in the XS itself. Happy to help debug later.
(08:02:46 AM) Nubae: ok, fine
(08:03:37 AM) BryanWB: martin_xsa: We will plan on using 0.4 and 8.2.0 when we refresh the the XO's and XS at our pilots in November
(08:03:46 AM) martin_xsa: So one of my open questions is: what behaviours do we want to trigger when a USB key is inserted? It will always be triggered by special scripts.
(08:04:19 AM) Nubae: well normally a file browser would be openned+
(08:04:29 AM) Nubae: but Ï guess thats moot on the xo :-)
(08:04:33 AM) martin_xsa: So if ppl come up with good ideas to bounce on the list for "things to do when a usb disk is inserted"
(08:04:44 AM) martin_xsa: the XS is headless - I am thinking along the lines of...
(08:05:04 AM) BryanWB: martin_xsa: a nice ncurses gui w/ like 3 choices
(08:05:05 AM) martin_xsa: "if the right trigger file is in place, backup all userdata to the disk" (assuming a large drive)
(08:05:21 AM) BryanWB: update library, update sw, backup data
(08:05:25 AM) Nubae: oh we're talking xs not xo
(08:05:52 AM) martin_xsa: maybe we make an activity to run on the XO to prep the disks with the magic trigger files :-)
(08:06:25 AM) martin_xsa: And then you can use the USB disk on any XS.
(08:07:09 AM) martin_xsa: there will be a webbased UI so that you can monitor progress (showing the log)
(08:07:33 AM) Nubae: ok, so you're creating your own gui?
(08:07:51 AM) martin_xsa: it'll be a small additional page in moodle :-)
(08:08:00 AM) martin_xsa: [i'm so lazy]
(08:08:13 AM) martin_xsa: BryanWB, you mention that you are planning on using 8.2.0 + xs-0.4, which takes me to the next point...
(08:08:14 AM) Nubae: oh cool, anything integrated in moodle is wonderful
(08:08:53 AM) martin_xsa: doing updates on the XS right now is _broken_. You guys know it first hand, and I've been reproducing the problem here. Horrible
(08:09:09 AM) martin_xsa: So I'm putting a lot of work on cleaning up the mess that the xs-config package creates.
(08:09:39 AM) martin_xsa: So that's something I want in 0.4: that you can update and get a reasonably sane /etc
(08:10:08 AM) martin_xsa: I've already fixed all the domain_config scripts quite a bit
(08:10:11 AM) BryanWB: great
(08:10:44 AM) BryanWB: I don't see monitoring in v0.4
(08:10:45 AM) Nubae: ok right.... how will this affect those admins wanting to edit /etc files directly
(08:10:47 AM) martin_xsa: it might need a manual step to help the cleanup, I'm trying to avoid it.
(08:11:01 AM) Nubae: ie... not relearning a new configuration structure
(08:11:34 AM) BryanWB: we plan to use logwatch to keep us updated on problems on the XS's
(08:11:53 AM) BryanWB: Also, maybe cacti or other RRDtool to monitor the servers
(08:12:14 AM) BryanWB: more so we can tell how they are being used. May not use cacti for a larger deployment
(08:13:30 AM) martin_xsa: Nubae, I'm changing towards having files that you can edit sanely. It may be that you have to edit a template file that gets automatically filtered.
(08:13:30 AM) martin_xsa: so you have to edit /etc/named-xs.conf.in (note the .in) which gets transformed into /etc/named-xs.conf
(08:13:30 AM) martin_xsa: I'll write doco when it's all done, explaining how it all works :-)
(08:13:41 AM) martin_xsa: BryanWB, no monitoring yet. I want to add sysstat/sar, but do remember that you guys have only a few XSs at hand,and with connectivity.
(08:14:05 AM) martin_xsa: for that kind of infrastructure, I have Peru's problem space in my mind
(08:14:22 AM) martin_xsa: which rules out cacti, bb and similar :-(
(08:14:30 AM) BryanWB: martin_xsa: understand, our solution may not work for Peru
(08:14:44 AM) martin_xsa: however, log shipping and running logwatch on a central server for those might work.
(08:15:16 AM) Nubae: I thought we would use nagios
(08:15:16 AM) BryanWB: we all definitely need some usage benchmarks for the XS
(08:15:19 AM) martin_xsa: [though I would not send emails out of logwatch! - imagine the storm of several thousand servers emailing you]
(08:15:59 AM) BryanWB: sure, but we need it for at least a few to see what kind of problems come up
(08:16:50 AM) martin_xsa: Nubae, nagios - and most others - are for a serverroom and for a server:sysadmin ratio of <60. they don't really fit us
(08:17:46 AM) martin_xsa: BryanWB, yes - monitoring & reporting is in my mind, but we'll have to be smart here, the mainstream tools aren't useful for us, unfortunately.
(08:18:05 AM) martin_xsa: be smart and possibly build bits of the solution :-/
(08:18:34 AM) BryanWB: martin_xsa: what I am trying to say is that we will likely use off the shelf tools while waiting for the more scalable solution that you are working on
(08:18:34 AM) martin_xsa: for small pilots you can use anything you want, it'll never conflict w what we'll do with XS
(08:18:35 AM) martin_xsa: :-)
(08:18:46 AM) martin_xsa: yep, no prob!
(08:19:10 AM) BryanWB: we need a monitoring solution right now b/c we currently have no idea how the schools are using the XS
(08:19:21 AM) Nubae: about moodle... the single sign on thing should work with email too
(08:19:25 AM) martin_xsa: sounds good to me! I'm also interested in that.
(08:19:43 AM) BryanWB: what's the timeline for 0.9?
(08:20:23 AM) martin_xsa: early '09? If I can crank 1 release per month, we'll get there.
(08:20:49 AM) BryanWB: so we will tentatively think about using that for when the Nepali school year starts in April '09
(08:20:54 AM) Nubae: will the XS become its own distribution
(08:21:02 AM) dirakx [n=rafael@190.157.72.54] entered the room.
(08:21:09 AM) martin_xsa: Yep - april is comfortable :-)
(08:21:11 AM) Nubae: kinda like edubuntu or debian edu
(08:21:23 AM) martin_xsa: Nubae, yes, it's a Fedora spin already
(08:21:34 AM) Nubae: k
(08:21:41 AM) BryanWB: what's the strategy for disaster recovery?
(08:21:43 AM) martin_xsa: (Debian calls them derivatives, Fedora calls them spins)
(08:21:59 AM) martin_xsa: hang on, we're skipping ahead! :-)
(08:22:04 AM) BryanWB: sorry 
(08:22:18 AM) martin_xsa: One major thing we need to do for xs0.5 or xs0.6 is to make the leap to F9
(08:22:41 AM) Nubae: oh, yeah sounds exciting :-)
(08:22:56 AM) martin_xsa: This is important for large deploymetns like Peru, where having current & security-patched sw is important
(08:22:58 AM) Nubae: although migration to debian would be nicer
(08:23:16 AM) martin_xsa: Nubae, I wish too :-/ but that's a separate battle
(08:23:48 AM) martin_xsa: The main blocker to F9 is xs-config - which is getting a forced cleanup due to the bugs I mentioned
(08:24:27 AM) Nubae: so from what ive understood on the mailing list, there will never be a visual gui for the XS server?
(08:24:50 AM) martin_xsa: and the network scripts - also contained in xs-config - which do all the setup if which NIC is what, routing, firewalling etc
(08:25:03 AM) martin_xsa: Nubae, correct, XS is a headless machine.
(08:25:06 AM) dbagnall: Nubae: not even a text-ui, necessarily
(08:26:12 AM) martin_xsa: administration (if ever needed) is via ssh and/or serial -- we are working to make it an embedded-style system that needs no admin
(08:26:35 AM) BryanWB: but for updating the XS from USB will be done via a web gui, correct?
(08:26:37 AM) martin_xsa: but may need work to setup install-time configuration via a kickstart file
(08:26:43 AM) Nubae: im thinking here from the teachers perspective
(08:26:54 AM) martin_xsa: BryanWB, I don't think so.
(08:27:09 AM) dbagnall: It will speak to you through beeps
(08:27:35 AM) martin_xsa: Nubae, for teachers and educational staff the UI is moodle. We'll remove most of moodle admin options, and add a few that have to do with XS options.
(08:28:11 AM) martin_xsa: Anyway - on the F9 track, Jerry is helping quite a bit, and we might have some builds to test in the coming weeks.
(08:28:31 AM) Nubae: welll as long as they have a way of maintaining the system no problem
(08:28:55 AM) Nubae: I was just envisioning people in remote locations without admin experience trying to get their systems working
(08:28:58 AM) martin_xsa: If we can get sth going for xs-0.5, I'll be very happy. Unlikely though.
(08:29:08 AM) martin_xsa: Nubae, think of infrastructures of 5K servers.
(08:29:46 AM) dbagnall: it is not perhaps a matter of whether they can get them working, so much as whether they can get them broken
(08:29:47 AM) martin_xsa: you have sysadmins preparing a kickstart file to preconfigure the servers, installing them all in the warehouse, and shipping them with a technician to the schools
(08:29:57 AM) martin_xsa: no configuration happens in the school
(08:31:16 AM) martin_xsa: that is the scenarios I am building the XS for :-) -- in pilots with good sysadmin talent (like you guys) you can figure things out - you'd get by with a plain ubuntu server too :-)
(08:32:33 AM) martin_xsa: ... we're trying to make the XS work for both scenarios
(08:32:45 AM) BryanWB: martin_xsa: On the XO, our teachers can and do use the test-all feature in the firmware
(08:32:53 AM) BryanWB: it is invaluable
(08:33:00 AM) martin_xsa: that's excellent
(08:33:14 AM) BryanWB: their English is limited but they can distinguish b/w OK and Fail
(08:33:30 AM) BryanWB: I think a similar mechanism for the XS would be very useful
(08:33:38 AM) Nubae: indeed
(08:33:45 AM) martin_xsa: the web ui will have some tools - a view of the logs, for example...
(08:34:19 AM) martin_xsa: it shows msgs when the USB sticks get pluigged and if any content is found and installed...
(08:34:22 AM) Nubae: then if we talked to them over skype or whatever we could solve at least 50% of our issues without having to drive to somre remote village in the middle of nowhere
(08:35:04 AM) dbagnall: right
(08:35:50 AM) BryanWB: the teachers are mechanically competent, and I expect most schools worldwide will have someone who can fix the mechanical aspect of the machine
(08:36:10 AM) Nubae: a linux machine
(08:36:32 AM) Nubae: based on a distro that works entirely differently than anything else :-) ?
(08:36:40 AM) martin_xsa: BryanWB, not sure what mech failures you are thinking of, but I tend to agree.
(08:37:23 AM) martin_xsa: last I was in Peru, a school had a non-booting XS due to bad contacts of the memory bank in its slot
(08:37:30 AM) BryanWB: it would be nice to have a test-all for the XS that tells teacher whether RAM, hard drive, or something else 
(08:37:48 AM) BryanWB: they are savvy enough to swap out the hardware
(08:37:57 AM) Nubae: it could send that via email on a monthly basis maybe
(08:38:05 AM) martin_xsa: BryanWB, nice but goes to the building our own HW - like with the XO. Can't do for now :-(
(08:38:27 AM) BryanWB: understand, would require custom hardware and bios, damn
(08:38:43 AM) martin_xsa: some things are possible - SMART stats for instance
(08:39:04 AM) BryanWB: We do need an easy way for them to restore the XS operating software but not overwrite the data
(08:39:06 AM) Nubae: but not for everything.... quota, net access, net filters, log files, squid, intrussion attempts
(08:39:48 AM) martin_xsa: We'll see if the move to pungi helps in that regard.
(08:40:00 AM) martin_xsa: anaconda has a "repair OS mode"
(08:40:25 AM) BryanWB: Nubae: that will be useful for benchmarking but not a widespread deployment. we can't take in that much info for our full deployment next year
(08:40:44 AM) Nubae: ah... abotu moodle... and maybe this should be discussed further down the line
(08:40:48 AM) martin_xsa: let's get back to agenda :-)
(08:41:03 AM) Nubae: we've looked at a way to take stuff from a repo like door
(08:41:12 AM) martin_xsa: and fast-forward ahead so we can get to your items
(08:41:16 AM) martin_xsa: give me a minute
(08:41:19 AM) Nubae: but after looking at door, it seem pretty lacking
(08:41:46 AM) Nubae: ok, sorry ill shut up for now :-)
(08:41:59 AM) martin_xsa: Another change coming soon in .4 or .5 is that the images will be standard installer images rather than
(08:42:03 AM) martin_xsa: livecds
(08:42:38 AM) martin_xsa: which means you can install/ update/ repair a system more readily, and you can drive it from a kickstart file like a normal fedora/redhat installer
(08:43:06 AM) martin_xsa: and it makes life easier _building_ the CDs
(08:43:40 AM) martin_xsa: I am tring to see if we can get the automagic auth going with a patch to Browse and some tricks on the XS side
(08:43:40 AM) BryanWB: nice, so we can build our own cd's w/ Nepal's library content, Peru could build their own cd's w/ their own content
(08:44:02 AM) martin_xsa: yep - can be un the image, or ina post-inst script that downloads & installs it
(08:44:26 AM) martin_xsa: once we get moodle in place, we need to find a way to spot teachers.
(08:44:34 AM) Nubae: there are many tools that can do this
(08:44:56 AM) Nubae: spotting teachers by name
(08:44:59 AM) martin_xsa: probably the first XO to register will be 'magic' and be a teacher
(08:45:03 AM) Nubae: is that not an option
(08:45:16 AM) BryanWB: Nubae: they will often have same name as students
(08:45:52 AM) martin_xsa: the XS is headless, has just been switched on in a new school, and... which laptop gets teacher privileges?
(08:46:32 AM) Nubae: we define the teachers in the XS
(08:46:34 AM) martin_xsa: My initial trick will be "first to register". I'm sure we'll come up with better techniques later :-)
(08:46:48 AM) martin_xsa: who's "we" - there's no technicians in the school!
(08:46:53 AM) BryanWB: We're thinking we have a designated work w/ Moodle and it's config options. this person can designate which registered users are teachers.
(08:47:12 AM) dbagnall: Nubae: its just out of the box, no chance to set things
(08:47:36 AM) martin_xsa: :-) you guys can do it in Nepal but how do I handle it in Peru?
(08:47:39 AM) Nubae: i thought the way to register the moodle users would be that the xs reads the mac address
(08:47:52 AM) Nubae: and then ties that to login details for future autologin
(08:48:10 AM) Nubae: define the mac address to a particular teacher and that works
(08:48:11 AM) BryanWB: we identify the designated teacher during training and then give that teacher extra training on moodle, such as giving certain users teacher access
(08:48:31 AM) BryanWB: There will have to be training for the teachers how to use Moodle whichever country
(08:48:45 AM) martin_xsa: Nubae, we cannit use MAC addresses because it may be mediated (switch/bridge). Instead we'll use ssh keys generated by the XO - that's transmittedwhen the user "registers"
(08:49:03 AM) Nubae: ok, then that
(08:49:09 AM) Nubae: same thing applies though
(08:49:16 AM) martin_xsa: so that keeps track of identity -
(08:49:18 AM) BryanWB: what happens when we reflash the XO after it crashes?
(08:49:35 AM) Nubae: we reset the identity
(08:49:38 AM) BryanWB: or some other software related problem?
(08:49:51 AM) martin_xsa: BryanWB, the teacher can alias the 2 identities via a UI in moodle (it's in my TODO list)
(08:49:56 AM) martin_xsa: but...
(08:50:09 AM) martin_xsa: how do we spot the teacher in the crowd for starters? ;-)
(08:50:31 AM) BryanWB: let's not be too smart about this. Spotting the teachers is a human-mediated task
(08:50:40 AM) Nubae: define them in a seperate web ui
(08:51:01 AM) Nubae: maybe the backup restore one or something
(08:51:01 AM) BryanWB: The best way is to have one the teachers designate other teachers in Moodle as teachers.
(08:51:02 AM) martin_xsa: BryanWB, if you are thinking a special URL, that might work
(08:51:25 AM) martin_xsa: BryanWB, yes - one first teacher can bless other teachers. Thing is getting that 'first teacher'.
(08:51:39 AM) BryanWB: We get that first teacher during training
(08:51:48 AM) martin_xsa: a special "secret" url might work, first-to-register is another possiblity
(08:51:53 AM) dbagnall: it's a race one way or the other
(08:52:17 AM) Nubae: think a secret url is the best way
(08:52:28 AM) BryanWB: Designate specific XO's as belonging to teachers and record their SSH Keys ahead of time and put in the XS
(08:53:04 AM) dbagnall: we won't know the SSH keys ahead of time
(08:53:25 AM) martin_xsa: they are generated when you give the XO your name...
(08:53:55 AM) martin_xsa: we'll get started with magic URL (configurable for each region/country) and first-to-register schemes
(08:54:19 AM) BryanWB: Name the XO ahead of time, no one will be offended
(08:54:23 AM) martin_xsa: and if you come up with a grand scheme, post to the list :-)
(08:54:24 AM) homunq left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection).
(08:54:38 AM) homunq [n=chema@216.106.170.217] entered the room.
(08:54:53 AM) martin_xsa: a magic 'signed pass' in a usb key that they can upload is one scheme that I tought of, but the magic pass can be copied...
(08:54:54 AM) BryanWB: The in-country deployment team would name it, record ssh key and put it into the XS
(08:55:41 AM) Nubae: another thing could be a password protected web page that explains the registratio procedure
(08:56:01 AM) Nubae: a web page outside the network i mean
(08:56:19 AM) martin_xsa: Nubae, password protect is same as secret url...
(08:56:32 AM) Nubae: hehe yeah k :-)
(08:56:45 AM) BryanWB: Someone will have to show the teachers how to use Moodle. If know one knows how to use it, they won't use moodle even if Moodle automatically detects them as teachers.
(08:56:47 AM) Nubae: but thought u meant secret url on local network
(08:57:11 AM) BryanWB: If massive deployments can't train the teachers on Moodle, then the teachers won't use it anyways
(08:57:30 AM) martin_xsa: Agreed.
(08:57:41 AM) martin_xsa: So the secret trick is taught along with it.,
(08:57:54 AM) BryanWB: sure
(08:57:59 AM) Nubae: ok next...
(08:58:07 AM) Nubae: :-)
(08:58:31 AM) martin_xsa: next - I'll say: I don't mind if ppl work on VOIP stuff, but I won't pay much attention to it at the moment
(08:58:42 AM) martin_xsa: at least not until we have the webapps under control.
(08:58:47 AM) BryanWB: agreed, I don't want to work on it. too much work
(08:58:49 AM) Nubae: well, in Nepal it wont work...
(08:59:04 AM) Nubae: actually... this is a very sore topic here...
(08:59:17 AM) martin_xsa: Nubae, hint why? I thought you wanted it...?
(08:59:26 AM) Nubae: the way theyve set up the network
(08:59:44 AM) Nubae: here in Nepal is that all ips are private
(08:59:47 AM) Nubae: inside nepal
(08:59:50 AM) martin_xsa: hmmm, most network setups won't be voip friendly
(08:59:55 AM) BryanWB: agreed
(09:00:16 AM) BryanWB: but we at least want to make them e-mail friendly and ejabberd friendly
(09:00:30 AM) Nubae: I think this type of network structure totally blows and will never work
(09:00:35 AM) BryanWB: that way we can easily communicate w/ the teachers by e-mail and chat
(09:00:40 AM) dbagnall: Nepal is one big rfc1918 ?
(09:00:45 AM) Nubae: right
(09:00:53 AM) martin_xsa: everyone behind nat?
(09:01:03 AM) Nubae: yes, and throguh 1
(09:01:07 AM) Nubae: yes one router
(09:01:24 AM) martin_xsa: I think most networks for olpc deployments will be like that :-/
(09:02:12 AM) martin_xsa: I'm interested in how ejabberd can be setup in a topology that works across that.
(09:02:21 AM) martin_xsa: if you manage to get it going :-)
(09:02:41 AM) martin_xsa: [btw, I'm done with my part of it, nepal team, take over]
(09:03:52 AM) Nubae: ok... most of my stuff is about moodle
(09:05:24 AM) Nubae: my questions are concerning authentication mostly
(09:05:36 AM) martin_xsa: ask away :-)
(09:05:42 AM) Nubae: first, when will u do the authentication stuff...
(09:05:49 AM) martin_xsa: when I can!
(09:05:49 AM) Nubae: so i dont do work for no reason
(09:05:51 AM) martin_xsa: :-)
(09:06:02 AM) martin_xsa: probably in the next 2~3 weeks
(09:06:28 AM) martin_xsa: have to get 0.4 out, and a few other bits and bobs --
(09:06:43 AM) martin_xsa: but there are a few tricky things with your setup - from what I gather
(09:06:55 AM) Nubae: right... I understand that answer, so then maybe I should wait to see what u come up with
(09:07:09 AM) Nubae: if u need any help, I can try to do that too
(09:07:13 AM) martin_xsa: for example - the automagic auth stuff I am planning is very unlikely to play nicely with auth/sqm
(09:07:28 AM) BryanWB: sqm  squirrelmaiL?
(09:07:44 AM) martin_xsa: because auth/sqm really wants a password, because the IMAP server behind it needs a paswword
(09:08:14 AM) martin_xsa: sqm = Squirrelmail auth/sqm is the squirrelmain SSO authentication plugin I wrote for moodle many moons ago
(09:08:16 AM) Nubae: right.... but doesnt moodle need a pass too?
(09:08:50 AM) martin_xsa: If you write an auth plugin for moodle, and in it you tell moodle it's all ok, it will believe you.
(09:09:07 AM) martin_xsa: trusty old moodle
(09:09:37 AM) martin_xsa: sqm can't do the same, because it has to satisfy the IMAP server's request for a pw
(09:09:38 AM) Nubae: i dont think well be the only setup with sqm and moodle
(09:09:57 AM) BryanWB: really need it to communicate w/ teachers
(09:09:58 AM) Nubae: might be worth putting some time into this
(09:10:25 AM) Nubae: or will gmail be used (I heard that somewhere)
(09:10:26 AM) BryanWB: also, the Dept of Ed. really wants the teachers to have e-mail so they can use to communicate w/ them
(09:10:38 AM) BryanWB: pls, pls no gmail
(09:10:50 AM) martin_xsa: I can understand. In Uy the ceibal team has recommended yahoo or gmail.
(09:11:07 AM) BryanWB: they have great cheap bandwidth, our bandwidth is expensive
(09:11:10 AM) martin_xsa: gmail is evil?
(09:11:12 AM) martin_xsa: ah, ok.
(09:11:22 AM) Nubae: it is to bryan
(09:11:26 AM) Nubae: :-)
(09:11:31 AM) martin_xsa: so, it's not in my immediate plan, but here's a cheat sheet on how we could do it
(09:12:02 AM) martin_xsa: If you assume you are using automagic auth XO-to-XS, then the user never sees any password
(09:12:16 AM) martin_xsa: 1 - set a random pw in moodle
(09:12:19 AM) Nubae: right
(09:12:33 AM) Nubae: yeah thats what i was thinking
(09:12:41 AM) martin_xsa: 2 - get the MTA to read its "valid user accts" directly from a view of Moodle's DB
(09:13:23 AM) martin_xsa: that view is possibly a "who's a teacher" view, and shows all the fields that the MTA needs, including crypted password :-)
(09:13:32 AM) Nubae: ok, so is that the method that will be used?
(09:13:45 AM) martin_xsa: 3 - ah, forgot: neep a plaintext copy of the passwd around :-/
(09:14:00 AM) Nubae: right... and allows the teachers to change things like naughty names
(09:14:20 AM) Nubae: and stuff like that
(09:14:36 AM) martin_xsa: 4 - give the auth/sqm plugin the password we have in plaintext
(09:14:54 AM) martin_xsa: 5 - sqm passes the pw to the IMAP server, and it's all good
(09:15:06 AM) Nubae: from a text file?
(09:15:22 AM) martin_xsa: it's a harebrained scheme - can sqm read directly from Maildirs without choking?
(09:15:47 AM) Nubae: yes, y not
(09:15:48 AM) martin_xsa: if it can, then get rid of courier-imap
(09:16:19 AM) Nubae: u're given the optio to read fom maildir or /var/mail
(09:16:32 AM) martin_xsa: and hack SQM to read and trust moodle's cookie - removed the "fake password" dance
(09:17:21 AM) Nubae: well, and this is qutie funny actually... courier is not even in the yum repos anytmore
(09:17:24 AM) martin_xsa: ok, then configure postfix to treat the domain as a virt domain, and get all the email delivered to a /var/webmail/ dir owned by apache
(09:17:28 AM) Nubae: only dovecot is
(09:17:44 AM) martin_xsa: that's weird. courier is good for imap
(09:18:05 AM) Nubae: dovecot works quite well too... im using it right now for our xs
(09:18:13 AM) Nubae: hasnt had any probs so far
(09:18:39 AM) Nubae: but i installed it cause courier wasnt in the repos
(09:18:47 AM) Nubae: maybe this is a fedora 7 thing?
(09:18:51 AM) martin_xsa: btw, if you are using postfix, we'll prob switch to postfix on the XS at some point. keep your eyes open for conflicts...
(09:19:14 AM) Nubae: well, this is the other thing we need to talk about...
(09:19:31 AM) Nubae: really... we should be trying to work together as much as possible
(09:19:58 AM) Nubae: instead of me doing a whole set of config files... it would make more sense that u structure them and I follow them
(09:20:17 AM) Nubae: and try to take some work of your hands if at all possible
(09:20:28 AM) martin_xsa: sounds good, I don't necesarily have the time when you need a particular one :-/
(09:20:47 AM) Nubae: structured config outline u mean
(09:20:50 AM) Nubae: ?
(09:21:03 AM) martin_xsa: yes - takes quite a bit of thought and study sometimes :-)
(09:21:19 AM) martin_xsa: but we can do things better perhaps if you post to the list with what you're planning/needing to change
(09:21:20 AM) Nubae: ok... well why dont we do like this... I create it the way i believe it should be, and then u can check it and change what u dont like
(09:21:26 AM) Nubae: should save some time
(09:21:49 AM) martin_xsa: if you post about what you're about to do, and perhaps a diff showing the changes, it's a good start.
(09:22:07 AM) martin_xsa: we can discuss alternatives and needs
(09:22:41 AM) kimquirk left the room.
(09:22:56 AM) martin_xsa: a good trick is to have template files or conf.d directories that then we search/replace and concatenate to create the resulting conffile
(09:23:09 AM) martin_xsa: some services do support conf.d schemes, and that's helpful
(09:23:44 AM) martin_xsa: so for apache, we can just talk about new files we want to drop in /etc/httpd/conf.d/
(09:24:33 AM) Nubae: ok... i guess what it comes down to is that right now u are swamped and cant really take time to review the stuff im attempting
(09:24:40 AM) Nubae: which i totally understand
(09:25:09 AM) Nubae: ok about moodle...
(09:25:20 AM) martin_xsa: a bit, but I also don't want to be a bottleneck to what you do, so I am fleshing out the strategies we are using here
(09:25:27 AM) Nubae: there is a plugin called door.... do u know it?
(09:25:45 AM) martin_xsa: that's why I mention conf.d schemes and templating the config files.
(09:26:06 AM) martin_xsa: no, I haven't seen the door plugin, don't think it's official.
(09:26:30 AM) Nubae: ok... well what it does is create repositorires of moodle material
(09:26:54 AM) martin_xsa: i like that concept :-)
(09:26:59 AM) Nubae: so that you can plug in a moodle object(pretty much any kind of media) into the courses
(09:27:09 AM) martin_xsa: cool
(09:27:15 AM) BryanWB: alright, are we ready to to talkk about the repository :)
(09:27:17 AM) Nubae: you can create both local repos and remote repos that already exist
(09:27:27 AM) Nubae: but....
(09:27:33 AM) Nubae: there is always a but...
(09:27:44 AM) Nubae: the remote repos are all closed...
(09:27:55 AM) Nubae: ie... we dont have access to them
(09:28:02 AM) martin_xsa: once I have moodle auth going, repos for moodle are right next in my list
(09:28:06 AM) Nubae: however if we appproach them from olpc, maybe they will?
(09:28:26 AM) martin_xsa: ugh, so the content is not available.
(09:28:41 AM) Nubae: it would be great to have a whole bunch of material to use straight off the bat
(09:28:45 AM) BryanWB: alright guys, I have an unorthodox opinion here.
(09:28:57 AM) Nubae: well... its here: switch
(09:29:03 AM) martin_xsa: if the repo scheme is good (if the tool is good) we can start using it for XS deployments, and writing importers from other repos
(09:29:08 AM) BryanWB: Fedora-Commons + Fez is an ugly monster but . . .
(09:30:21 AM) martin_xsa: BryanWB, done quite a bit with that pair :-) -- I'll line up help to write a "FC-F" exporter that gets us things in a usable format without running FC-F
(09:30:34 AM) BryanWB: It's something that we have to work a lot on here in Nepal and will be working on.  It will make less work for us in Nepal to use fedora-commons for both our main online E-Library site and the XS.
(09:30:48 AM) martin_xsa: OTOH, if you mean just being a _client_ to FC-F, I don't mind.
(09:31:12 AM) BryanWB: Nope, I mean running FC-F on the XS. hear me out
(09:31:35 AM) martin_xsa: Ok. In _your_ XS :-) not mine
(09:32:05 AM) Nubae: http://door.sourceforge.net/
(09:32:15 AM) BryanWB: We will have to put a lot of work into making FC-F a nice packaged install and work together w/ Moodle.  Want to present the teachers w/ a consistent interface for accessing the library
(09:32:22 AM) martin_xsa: those 2 blow our memory and cpu budget
(09:32:58 AM) BryanWB: I agree that FC-F shouldn't be part of the standard XS but 6 months from now we may have something other groups will find useful
(09:33:55 AM) martin_xsa: no prob! I might tap on your FC-F expertise to test out an exporter... ;-)
(09:36:27 AM) martin_xsa: still here?
(09:36:57 AM) martin_xsa: Nepal team?
(09:37:02 AM) BryanWB: sorry we were chatting
(09:37:22 AM) BryanWB: we will be putting all of our moodle courses online and searchable thru FC-F
(09:37:23 AM) martin_xsa: cool
(09:37:26 AM) Nubae: about fez vs fcommons
(09:37:30 AM) Nubae: sorry door
(09:37:52 AM) BryanWB: This is essential in order to get more public support for OLPC and more content from the govt and other content-providers
(09:37:55 AM) Nubae: so... that means more reinventing the wheel, but its a good wheel this time
(09:38:13 AM) Nubae: we definetly need a content repo
(09:38:25 AM) Nubae: its essential from a teacher perspective
(09:39:03 AM) martin_xsa: i completely agree with getting goodcontent.
(09:39:17 AM) BryanWB: since we have to put so much work in to FC-F for http://pustakalaya.olenepal.org   want to see how can minimize level of effort to make same content accessible on XS
(09:39:34 AM) Nubae: and do u agree fedora commons is the way to go?
(09:39:40 AM) martin_xsa: on the repo side, the existing sw is very disappointing. I've worked with eprints, fez/fc, and a few others and don't ahve a single good word to say of them :-/
(09:40:26 AM) martin_xsa: I think Moodle is on its way to get a FC/Fez client, so it can read and fetch data from it.
(09:40:29 AM) martin_xsa: so it can use it freely.
(09:40:36 AM) BryanWB: they are a nightmare but FC-F does work reliably and powerfully once set up
(09:40:52 AM) Nubae: well... guess we can wait or help make it a reality
(09:42:00 AM) martin_xsa: From the POV of the XS, it _will_ have a repo, and a means to share between schools. It won't be FC, it's more likely to be something simple.
(09:43:00 AM) martin_xsa: I haven't looked at doors at all. If I find something that fits I'll use it, otherwise, I'll get it done. I've prototyped a bit around repositories for moodle a while ago.
(09:43:27 AM) martin_xsa: the resulting repo has to have the same properties that a debian apt or yum repo have.
(09:43:32 AM) BryanWB: sure. Right now want to try FC-F. If we fail, may use a simpler search interface to representational repo like what you're talking about
(09:44:11 AM) martin_xsa: Sure. From a moodle POV, the plan is to have a single UI for many repo backends - one being FC-F, other being the one I describe...
(09:44:22 AM) ***martin_xsa nods
(09:45:20 AM) BryanWB: The E-Library is really important for Nepal because there are almost no libraries, there are like 5 in Kathmandu and that's it for the whole country
(09:45:47 AM) BryanWB: for that reason we will put more effort into it than other countries might
(09:46:48 AM) martin_xsa: completely respectable. I also don't want to say that FC-F is bad. It's not a good fit for the XS.
(09:47:11 AM) BryanWB: martin_xsa: do you know of any way to use FC as a repo for Moodle? Wasn't there a guy at Catalyst that did work on this?
(09:48:44 AM) martin_xsa: yes - Jun Yamog & Jonathan Harker, both catalyst people. their work was not taken upstream because martind (moodle lead) was not convinced of the api we were proposing
(09:49:10 AM) Nubae: in terms of java, are there any plans for this working on the xos?
(09:49:27 AM) martin_xsa: I met with martind 2 months ago, and he explained the new api for repositories... and it looks like he's turned around to agree with us :-)
(09:49:30 AM) BryanWB: Nubae: you mean to support hot potatoes in Moodle?
(09:49:37 AM) martin_xsa: but it'll take time for things to fall into place.
(09:50:04 AM) BryanWB: when do u think their work will go upstream?
(09:50:07 AM) Nubae: hot pot needs javascript
(09:50:07 AM) martin_xsa: Nubae, not that I know of. memory footprint is a killer. but ask in the devel list.
(09:50:40 AM) BryanWB: and otherwise can I get a copy of their work?
(09:51:01 AM) Nubae: what is your opinion of using shorewall as the firewall for the XS?
(09:51:02 AM) martin_xsa: wrt to FC-F in moodle, I'm not sure. I'll drop them an email.
(09:51:10 AM) _sj_: hmm, are jun/jonathan still working on this -- do they need help pushing that upstream?
(09:51:11 AM) Nubae: is there any reason for not using it?
(09:51:42 AM) _sj_: that sounds like something we could get a couple [other] folks interested in helping in the short term
(09:51:47 AM) _sj_: with sig. impact
(09:51:55 AM) martin_xsa: hi _sj_! they are on other projects now, that window of opp is stale :-/ but there's enough interest in FC-F that sth will happen
(09:52:09 AM) BryanWB: _sj_: hey buddy!
(09:52:11 AM) _sj_: ok, so would it be useful to find people to help with packaging?
(09:52:12 AM) _sj_: bryan!
(09:52:23 AM) _sj_: hello :)  awesome meeting, btw.
(09:52:43 AM) martin_xsa: shorewall: I think we can look at how it fits - if it does :-) with what we want.
(09:52:53 AM) martin_xsa: who do you want to protect against?
(09:53:02 AM) Nubae: the cool thing it does is nice traffic shaping
(09:53:04 AM) martin_xsa: LAN? WAN?
(09:53:08 AM) Nubae: in an easily configurable manner
(09:53:17 AM) Nubae: u can do both
(09:53:25 AM) Nubae: but for me it would be wan
(09:53:34 AM) martin_xsa: hmm. traffic shaping on the LAN side is something we're not sure about.
(09:54:05 AM) Nubae: u mean because normally it happens on a higher level of the network?
(09:54:18 AM) _sj_: martin_xsa> BryanWB, done quite a bit with that pair :-) -- I'll line up help to write a "FC-F" exporter that gets us things in a usable format without running FC-F
(09:54:22 AM) _sj_: <martin_xsa> I think Moodle is on its way to get a FC/Fez client, so it can read and fetch data from it.
(09:55:01 AM) _sj_: re: having a single ui that can have fc-f or other as a backend... that's something a bunch of people could get behind
(09:55:36 AM) martin_xsa: _sj_, and I'm happy to help with that. martinD has already agreed with a workable API (after 2 years of not-quite-agreeing)
(09:55:45 AM) BryanWB: _sj_: if someone could put the work into a single UI for FC-F + Moodle that would be great. We don't have the resources for that at the moment
(09:55:59 AM) _sj_: martin: worth talking this up to potential moodlelicious interns...
(09:56:08 AM) _sj_: maybe tarun once he's done with his blog :)
(09:56:08 AM) martin_xsa: shorewall: no -- the thing is that the moment we do support mesh, and if you are meshing, traffic shaping punishes nodes that mesh
(09:56:52 AM) martin_xsa: that route on behalf of other nodes
(09:56:56 AM) _sj_: feels like a good intern project; I'll talk it up w/ devs for the next few weeks
(09:57:05 AM) Nubae: the thing with shorewall is that it works great with many interfaces.... isnt there a way to make some rules that  take aevantage of the mesh
(09:57:18 AM) martin_xsa: _sj_, go for it, I'll be happy to provide guidance...
(09:57:34 AM) BryanWB: martin_xsa: does FC have too much cpu and memory reqs or is more Fez? FC seems quite reliable, even though it's java while fez is the headache
(09:57:36 AM) _sj_: is there a link to current / past work?
(09:57:47 AM) smithbone_ left the room (quit: "Konversation terminated!").
(09:57:49 AM) martin_xsa: Nubae, needs exploration, cant say yay or nay without quite a bit of research --
(09:57:52 AM) Nubae: i wont ask any more about it now, promise :-)
(09:58:07 AM) BryanWB: can we talk about ejabberd now? and then disaster recovery?
(09:58:24 AM) Nubae: some more moodle stuff, can we talk about that first
(09:58:40 AM) BryanWB: go ahead
(09:58:43 AM) martin_xsa: BryanWB, the work FC can do for the XS is the job of a trivial database. No reason to keep that big beast around.
(09:59:21 AM) martin_xsa: ok. I'll have to wrap up soon, so let's rip!
(09:59:25 AM) Nubae: there is a gradebook for moodle that works like a excel style document
(09:59:39 AM) Nubae: so teachers can grade real fast....
(10:00:02 AM) Nubae: that should really be default...
(10:00:25 AM) Nubae: also... do u know if there is a roll calling module for moodle
(10:00:27 AM) martin_xsa: feel free to set it so :-)
(10:00:50 AM) martin_xsa: roll call: think there might be one. see the contrib modules database
(10:00:53 AM) Nubae: so teachers can take attendane through it
(10:01:13 AM) Nubae: i looked, couldnt fin anythun¡ng
(10:01:22 AM) m_stone: 'night folks.
(10:01:23 AM) martin_xsa: "attendance"
(10:01:29 AM) BryanWB: m_stone: later
(10:01:40 AM) martin_xsa: http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=moodle+attendance+module&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a
(10:01:41 AM) Nubae: heh right
(10:01:45 AM) martin_xsa: m_stone, have a good night
(10:02:06 AM) martin_xsa: http://docs.moodle.org/en/Attendance
(10:02:16 AM) Nubae: night mstone
(10:02:24 AM) Nubae: i was probably looking for roll calll
(10:02:37 AM) martin_xsa: ah, vaguaries of the english lang...
(10:02:44 AM) Nubae: ah.... and one last thing
(10:02:50 AM) Nubae: this relates to jolongo
(10:03:08 AM) Nubae: turns out they wanna move their stuff to gears
(10:03:21 AM) Nubae: after some convincing :-)
(10:03:28 AM) Nubae: and your rep.
(10:03:47 AM) martin_xsa: wohoo! excellent!
(10:03:55 AM) Nubae: so they wanna help on the coding part of it
(10:04:20 AM) martin_xsa: are they active in moodle.org? I want to put a msg there with a draft plan, and what things are afoot
(10:04:21 AM) Nubae: unfortunately... the school wll not allow them to open their source
(10:04:33 AM) Nubae: yes they are
(10:04:38 AM) martin_xsa: but as I'm not actively coding on any of those bits, I don't want to open my mouth...
(10:04:44 AM) martin_xsa: ahh?
(10:05:33 AM) Nubae: the reason they gave is that the uni is trying to stop cheating
(10:05:38 AM) martin_xsa: licensing problems are a bit of a bummer. think it's something that can be changed?
(10:05:52 AM) Nubae: and if they open the source code, they coudl get help
(10:05:56 AM) Nubae: :-)
(10:06:03 AM) Nubae: however, in november they can open it
(10:06:05 AM) BryanWB: can i bring up disaster recovery now?
(10:06:08 AM) martin_xsa: hah! there goes the "write a posix kernel" assignment !
(10:06:33 AM) martin_xsa: this november? that's not too far away. might be workable :-)
(10:06:36 AM) BryanWB: we are thinking that RAID 1 is not the answer for disaster reconvery
(10:06:40 AM) Nubae: yup
(10:06:42 AM) martin_xsa: I'm a disaster in recovery
(10:06:50 AM) Nubae: so we wait till november for that then
(10:07:09 AM) BryanWB: because RAID 1 on linux often doesn't work w/ a lot commidity hardware BIOSes
(10:07:20 AM) martin_xsa: Nubae, if we can get early peeks at the code, and specially if we aren't coding ahead of them.
(10:07:40 AM) martin_xsa: BryanWB, softraid is good...
(10:07:50 AM) Nubae: i think even early peeks are out of the question
(10:07:59 AM) martin_xsa: and doesn't have such problems
(10:08:24 AM) BryanWB: u mean mdadm?
(10:08:28 AM) martin_xsa: Nubae, in any case, the question is: is anyone working seriously on it before Nov?
(10:08:43 AM) BryanWB: Nubae: I thought you said you have issues w/ softraid?
(10:08:57 AM) martin_xsa: mdadm and friends. it's tricky when you install a new kernel+initrd to remember to do it correctly, but otherwise, rock solid
(10:09:00 AM) Nubae: ive now got the gears rpms but other than that, no
(10:09:30 AM) martin_xsa: Nubae, pushing to get them in F9?
(10:09:32 AM) BryanWB: Nubae: so you don't have an objection to softraid? I must have been confused
(10:10:07 AM) BryanWB: ahh, Nubae doesn't like hardware raid but does like software raid was confused.
(10:10:23 AM) BryanWB: Nubae: We'll plan on softraid 1 for Nov. then?
(10:10:31 AM) martin_xsa: softraid has a minor perf impact, but in modern hw it's not significant. For HW RAID, yes, not all chipsets are linux-friendly :-/
(10:11:00 AM) martin_xsa: softraid should be good. With our move to anaconda installs, it'll be easier to get softraid setup at install time I think.
(10:11:05 AM) BryanWB: on to ejabberd then?
(10:11:12 AM) martin_xsa: go go go\
(10:11:22 AM) BryanWB: how stable is it? We haven't really tested it for stability
(10:11:33 AM) BryanWB: total PITA to install
(10:13:20 AM) martin_xsa: 200% PITA to install. We'll try to make it easier :-)
(10:13:34 AM) martin_xsa: Once it's running, it seems to not fall over (erlang has good fame in that regard)
(10:13:36 AM) martin_xsa: however
(10:13:51 AM) martin_xsa: it scales badly WRT memory user per user, so schools with 100s of students could get in trouble
(10:14:02 AM) martin_xsa: what's the max ## of users you have?
(10:14:31 AM) BryanWB: hmm, right now 60 but next year may have around 100-120 at certain schools
(10:14:49 AM) Nubae: actually we updated the olpc repos and it broke it
(10:15:35 AM) martin_xsa: Ok. It'll be interesting to see how much RAM it takes for the 60 users. I'm not sure of the actual mem usage, but Wad and others have told me that it's a problem.
(10:15:50 AM) martin_xsa: How much RAM have you got in place?
(10:16:01 AM) BryanWB: We have 2 GB in place
(10:16:39 AM) BryanWB: Hmm, there wouldn't be a compiled version of ejabberd would there? that uses HiPE instead of BEAM?
(10:17:23 AM) martin_xsa: 2GB will keep you good.
(10:17:36 AM) BryanWB: 2 GB enough w/ 100 users and ejabberd?
(10:17:44 AM) Nubae: well, with ram the more the merrier
(10:17:46 AM) martin_xsa: BryanWB, I don't know. We are using a patched / customised ejabberd.
(10:18:11 AM) martin_xsa: BryanWB, I don't know numbers but I think 2GB will be ok for ejabberd + pg + apache/php + moodle
(10:18:24 AM) BryanWB: we'll have to test that here
(10:18:28 AM) martin_xsa: [those are the memory piggies we have / will have ]
(10:18:31 AM) BryanWB: anyone know anything about interconnecting ejabberd nodes?
(10:18:45 AM) martin_xsa: I don't - but keen to learn from you guys :-)
(10:19:09 AM) BryanWB: u can learn from our many, many mistakes
(10:19:24 AM) martin_xsa: people on devel@ might know but I'm not sure who would.
(10:19:55 AM) BryanWB: damn, the would be REALLY great to interconnect schools and teachers thru ejabberd
(10:19:56 AM) Nubae: well interconnecting nodes seem quite possible, but have a feeling u need fqdns
(10:20:46 AM) martin_xsa: can we move those explorations to the list?
(10:20:57 AM) dirakx: hello everyone so will be the next XS release version sent to serverdevel mail list ? (sorry to get in..)
(10:21:05 AM) martin_xsa: (and close any remaining burning questions... ;-) )
(10:21:26 AM) martin_xsa: dirakx, we're wrapping up :-)
(10:21:36 AM) martin_xsa: but expect a 0.4 release 25th of Aug
(10:21:39 AM) Nubae: right, i have no more questions
(10:21:40 AM) BryanWB: I don't have any more questions.
(10:21:45 AM) dirakx: martin_xsa: ah ok..;)
(10:21:51 AM) BryanWB: thanks to everyone for their time and patience :)
(10:22:08 AM) martin_xsa: dirakx, lots more details in the log of this meeting if you want the blow-by-blow...
(10:22:16 AM) Nubae: martin_xsa: I know u have way way way more knowledge and experince than me, but if u need help in aything
(10:22:18 AM) martin_xsa: thanks a lot to everyone for being here!
(10:22:24 AM) dirakx: martin_xsa: cool..
(10:22:27 AM) Nubae: some way to make your life easier, please ask
(10:22:28 AM) dirakx: thx
(10:22:31 AM) BryanWB: martin_xsa: I have been logging this and will post it to the wiki page
(10:22:48 AM) BryanWB: r we done?