User talk:Php5

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안녕하세요. 도 영민입니다.

OLPC FAQ/lang-ko

OLPC FAQ

this is a test

Categorization

Hi! Just a small comment about your edits in the Category:OLPC FAQ... pages are added automagically when you include the [[Category:OLPC FAQ]] in the page you want to categorize... usually the convention is to put it either at the end (my preference) or top—not in the middle as it can be hard to track or end up with multiple redundant categorizations...

For further documentation on categories see wikimedia's help.

BTW, if you need any help with the translating templates just drop me a note. --Xavi 17:36, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

Templates

I noticed the Template:OLPC Korea page... that is not a template! That's an article... You should move the content to OLPC Korea. IMHO, templates are intended either for small includes or standardization of content... not writing articles in them. Cheers --Xavi 20:09, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Send message

Receiving suggests about how to clearly express our intentions...

translations

I'm glad you that you've joined the effort :)

But I can't understand what's the difference between PO-laptop.org-top-level-ko and Korea PO. They seem duplicate.

It seems that all the localization process is going some changes (as is expected of an ongoing thing :) so I would suggest to hold back a bit... in the meantime, you may want to take a look at the evolution of the structure (or at least keep track of) at Localization/www.laptop.org, or some template tricks used by the translations linked from PO-laptop.org-es. BTW, namings may change and content may be added to the base PO files... there will be probably an official announcement sometime soon about the 'open for translators' :) --Xavi 01:54, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

RE: From Korean citizens

Thanks! :) About becoming the korean version the spanish 'Xavi'... you're most welcome to it! But I must warn you... I'm bald... :P --Xavi 20:09, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Template:User ko

Hi! I made (actually copy-paste) the template for native korean speakers. And was wondering if you could translate it into korean... so that it follows suit with all the other {{User xx}} currently available... if you want to use it in your page, I suggest the following:

{|style="float:right"
 |{{User ko}}
 |}

As it avoids some weird layouts results. BTW, what existed before in the template page, I moved to the Template talk:User ko discussion page. :) --Xavi 21:33, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

OLPC-HIG translation

Hi! Wow... you've been active lately :)

I noticed you jumped into the HIG translation into korean (OLPC 사용자 인터페이스 지침서)... given the structure of the original (plenty of sub-pages) and a navigational structure that relies on it, I'd say the best is to mimic the spanish translation OLPC Human Interface Guidelines/lang-es structure (which mimics the original with the addition of the language specifics).

I'll try to explain how the structure of the HIG and its translation works in a section of the Translating page, but until I do it, please don't hesitate in contacting me if you have any doubts. --Xavi 09:31, 9 April 2007 (EDT)

follow-up to User talk:Xavi#Thanks Xavi

Don't worry! I also got burned by it :) Since most of the inner workings have been solved for the original and spanish, you won't have to fight (too much) with them... what you must deal with are two things: (a) language-specific sub-pages (2) link preservation & parameterization... unfortunately these two make the wiki-text quite illegible if you aren't sure what the objective and implementation is... :(

Check Translating#translating the HIG, currently just a stub, but will try to put some meat in it today. --Xavi 10:05, 9 April 2007 (EDT)

Just a quick note: the navigation-bar (the one linking the different sections) is both at the top and the bottom... also, I wouldn't categorize them in Category:OLPC Korea as there are many pages in the document/translation that will make the category a blur. The templates currently tag each page with a special translation category (ie: Category:Translations lang-kr, Category:Translations lang-es, etc—sub-categories of Category:Translated Pages) which you can later link from OLPC Korea or wherever... BTW, I think you're using the spanish version as the 'structural basis' for your translations, which is fine, but you should be aware that some of them are off-sync with the original. You can see the changes from the english version used for the spanish translation by following the diff link in the blue-bar that will show you how the original has evolved and thus the modifications you must incorporate. Also, please verify the version parameter, as this will allow future maintenance efforts of the translations. Cheers! --Xavi 07:34, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

Lorem Ipsum: You're ahead of me! The control section has only just begun to be populated. The "lorem ipsum" text is commonly used as a placeholder to see what text would look like in a document before the actual text is inserted; It isn't actually any discernible language at all. I appreciate your readiness to translate this section, but I would recommend that you simply watch it for a little while (most likely a few weeks) until the editing settles down, as I predict that many additions and also many changes will be made as the section fills in, and I wouldn't want you to perform lots of unnecessary translation. Thanks! - Eben 21:58, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

fixing ko / kr

Hi! I've sort of thinking about the mess, and (momentarily) set up 'discussion shop' in Category:Translations lang-ko—although we should 'discuss' in its discussion page... care to join? :) --Xavi 09:47, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

While trying to fix my mistake, I came across Hardware design/lang-kr & Hardware design/lang-ko... two pages with different content (one is about Qemu, the other didn't have time to trace it). Can you fix that?

I think I got the bulk of the error fixed, all /lang-kr pages have been moved to /lang-ko (except the above), and I think I got most of the references (in templates and links) too. I'll be doing a detailed inspection of the site tomorrow (today I got other things to do) and hopefully by the weekend everything will be ok. Some time later (say next week) I'll probably redirect all the 'old redirects' to a page notifying the mistake (for external links to have some time to update), and then we can probably delete them later.

Good this mistake was caught now and not later... now it was 'just' ~200 edits... ;) --Xavi 14:21, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

Sorry? Hey! It was my mistake—I wrongfully corrected your initial ko for kr!

I claim full credit for my mistake! :) And no problem at all! :) --Xavi 20:45, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

ASK OLPC A QUESTION

You seem to be translating the master copy rather than the /ko copy!! --Walter 05:53, 13 April 2007 (EDT)

---

We seem to be in the same wavelength as I was planning to start with the Ask OLPC a Question... pages yesterday... but then it was the kr-ko mess (which still needs to be finished).

As much as I love your enthusiasm, please slow down!

You are creating too many pages (and modifying base ones) that have structural dependencies between them, that need to be preserved if the wiki is to keep working for everybody. Maybe the current structure is too fragile, but is the best we have come out with—if you have suggestions or ideas, I think everybody will be happy to hear them and collaborate together to make the wiki better. --Xavi 08:31, 13 April 2007 (EDT)

Translation version parameter

When translating a page, the version parameter helps you keep track of the original. In the original page, in the blue bar you'll notice a field on the right with something like [ID# 33306]. That number is what goes in the version parameter in your {{Translation ... version = xxxxx ... }}—replacing xxxxx with 33306.

When the original changes, you can just follow the diff link in your translation and it will show all the changes (of the original) since the last update. After you update the translation you update that number to the new version figuring in the original. That way the diff shows empty if there are no changes, and the next translator knows it has been updated.

If you put junk in that parameter, the whole purpose of using the {{Translation ... }} is pointless.

Please review you translations so that they match with the version of the original (not necessarily the current) you used to translate. --Xavi 09:19, 13 April 2007 (EDT)

translation coordination

Hi! We are trying to coordinate and standardize the efforts of the translating efforts within the community. Please read the new Translators page and register if interested. If you have any questions, please drop me a note. Cheers, --Xavi 18:05, 13 April 2007 (EDT)

translation OLPC Korea

Hi! I just added the Template:Translations to OLPC Korea and the Template:Translation to OLPC Korea/lang-ko... which I moved from OLPC Korea/kr. Hope you don't mind.

My 'problem' is that I'm assuming that /lang-ko is the translation, not the original. If that were not the case... congratulations! I think it's a first having content going into english (well, at least from a local wiki page ;) Anyway, I would like to verify the situation... because we may need some tweaks in the templates (although I doubt it—haven't really thought it out ;).... Cheers! --Xavi 23:33, 13 April 2007 (EDT)

Ask a Question About...

I think it's a good idea to translate part of the FAQ... but I wouldn't necessarily translate the visitor questions (unless they are symbolic or interesting—in which case I would suggest changing the /Summary page). I would leave it to the korean community to pose their own questions... :) --Xavi 00:13, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

I see, thanks for your advice. always thanks...

truncated HIG translation?

Reviewing some things I encountered the following pages:

OLPC 사용자 인터페이스 지침서,
OLPC 사용자 인터페이스 지침서/소개, and
OLPC 사용자 인터페이스 지침서/활동

which seem to be an off-branch try at translating the HIG... what should with them? delete them? --Xavi 12:54, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

priorities

Hi! I've noticed you've been translating a lot! Which is good... but, maybe the translation efforts could be better guided if we somehow gauge or measure some 'meta' information about the source pages (ie: how popular it is, how many pages actually reference it, etc.)

That way we are sure that our translating efforts (and future maintenance of them) is focused on what the community needs. I've put some statistics about them (manually retrieved) in Translated pages—take a look and let's discuss about it. --Xavi 12:02, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

It's very coooool..... php5

unwanted editions

Please be more careful with the editions of the sources! We don't want to lose information while translating!

• http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=DCON_Testing&curid=3379&diff=33912&oldid=24623&rcid=32724
• http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Hardware_Drivers&curid=2677&diff=33920&oldid=21738&rcid=32732

--Xavi 14:58, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

please slow down

You are creating tons of pages that are supposed to be translated into Korean when in fact most of the text is NOT. There's no point in having tons of pages in Korlish... (particularly, obscure or hard to come by pages). The point of translating the wiki-pages is to provide material for the local communities so that they can start to work! As much as I value your effort, I don't see it serving the project—I could be wrong.

I've systematically tried to follow you editions and honestly your choice of pages-to-translate escapes me, particularly considering that afterwards someone has to maintain and update them.

This is not a competition about who has 'translated' the most, or who has more editions... we are trying to engage the local communities in a sensible way. --Xavi 15:16, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

question

I noticed that besides adding the {{Translations}} (btw, the <noinclude> isn't really needed unless the page is included somewhere else) you edited some numbers out (diff) in the page Hardware Power Domains... I agree that they seem very weird, but they were placed by the original author in his edition back in September last year... and no other editor (assuming knowledgeable ones ;) had the need to remove them... Care to explain? Cheers! :) --Xavi 07:39, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

Hi, Xavi.

It's somewhat interesting...I have never modified original texts written in English, even some contents being evidently out of date...such as Geode GX...512MB memory, 233 (or 266) clock speed etc.

So, I didn't. But the system says I did.

What a wonderful wiki. I think it must be AI (Artificial Intelligence) powered something-maybe-new version of Mediawiki. I suggest you had better contact with gnu who modified the page before me.

Sincerely php5 14:13, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

I visited the page again, and, the modification may or must be done by a hardware architect, because the content deleted seems out-of-date. Some features of GX chip were abandoned by substituting it with LX chip. And, if possible, please let me know. How could wiki mismatch author(or modifier) and content like this? php5 14:21, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

Hi! Mmm... that's weird! Because they seem quite selective, either numbers or I think I saw dates in another (ie: 2007.01.01). With what you say, and the latest 'vandal' bout of truncate edits—all the rollbacks and blocking, I've been doing in editions that get 'truncated' after the '&' sign, or loss of '+' sign in others—I just hope we are not hitting something else...

Oh well... guess we'll have to do some hunting... if anybody has any clue of what may be going on...

BTW, yes, those out of date originals should be tagged for reviewing, we have the Template:Dated but it's too blunt. Any ideas? Cheers! :) --Xavi 14:25, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

---

I will do anything helpful for this site. Let's see what is happening in wiki. And, whenever I come across out of date pages, I will post them on some pages with my comment. As I am reading all materials here, it will be helpful, I think. php5 15:19, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

Please do! :) My comments (which I admit, may sound a bit harsh) were with the sole purpose of trying to make the wiki better—the wiki has no real owner but the OLPC itself, so my vision of 'better' may not necessarily match yours and it may well be that neither matches the OLPC itself! :)

I posted the translated pages statistics only for 'comparative benchmarking' of them (I extracted the raw data for other purposes, so I didn't overkill myself doing it ;) in an effort to see how 'valuable' each could be for the community. We need to develop some other tools :) Or let the force be with you... :)

I just want to make clear that my opinions are just that, mine; and you are more than welcome in whatever effort you think is valuable! :)

As a final 'disclaimer', since I created the mini-framework (/translations, Template:Translations and Template:Translation) I feel sort of responsible for them, not in a 'police' sense, but rather in the sense that I would hate to see them hurt the wiki by creating a mess out of the well-intentioned efforts of the translating community, and turning it unusable. Cheers! --Xavi 18:30, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

question

Has OLPC Korea made any presentations to the govt or other groups? Have they organized as an official organization or is it just a group of like-minded people? I would love to see any resources you have or want to share on the Community_Building entry. --User:BerryBW

Hi, BerryBW. Thank you for your interesting. We are both a group of like-minded people and preparing an official organization before giving presentations to the govt and others.

However, some features of our group are normal organizations and normal groups, difficult to say at this point. After translation most pages of this wiki into Korean, we will upload a variety of materials related to deploying XO and its variations on Korea. Maybe, next week...please keep your interest.

XO Korea

Hi! I noticed the structure that you're setting up... and would like to suggest to you that you start 'small'? I mean, that structure is an awful lot of pages and links to maintain up front. Maybe if you start with just one page and then start fragmenting it it could be easier... that way you can concentrate in content and not so much in structure... :) 2cts, --Xavi 11:23, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

I see, thank you for a kind advice. -- php5 11:25, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

Re: thanks for your tireless

follow up to User talk:Xavi#Hi Xavi. thanks for your tireless interests on my works

Hi! :) I'm not trying to be a censor or anything like that. It's just that I feel a bit lost trying to match OLPC and that mega structure you're setting up in XO Korea/Table of Contents... I could be wrong, and it's a perfect fit... and that's exactly why I also suggested you start small trying to set things up and let them grow organically.

Either way, right or wrong, I feel amazed and enjoy your energy and devotion; I just wish I could understand it better and thus collaborate (after all this is a wiki :) Best of luck! --Xavi 09:26, 24 April 2007 (EDT)

learning outcome statements

What does a complete outcome statement look like? This might be appropriate for wikieducator. Sj talk 10:49, 5 May 2007 (EDT)

So, the ultimate goal of LOS written here is for children to be a REAL social members, who can collect some modules (or software components) from OEA libraries to compose a Really working governmental or business sectors which they own.

Thanks for the explanation. This makes sense to me -- but again, this seems appropriate for wikieducator (which has a fairly broad mission, and is working with OLPC in this regard). I would like to see this kind of material developed and made globally relevant, which is why I want you to work through the largest and most interested community possible so that you get good feedback quickly. Sj talk 20:16, 6 May 2007 (EDT)

We're missing you already... Best of luch, and see you at the end of the week. Sj talk 12:53, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

no festival

That was a short week! finished your chores earlier or just popped in for the day? Welcome back! :) --Xavi 09:31, 12 May 2007 (EDT)

Hi! Welcome back! Hope your chores came out fine. And, no, we didn't throw any parties while you were 'out', the site was a bit too quiet... ;) but there's been some News and the world is slowly turning greener :) Cheers! --Xavi 22:38, 16 May 2007 (EDT)

Nice to have you back... Sj talk 23:31, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

heyyy, nice laptop photos :)

Are those your kids? 18.85.18.93 21:59, 31 May 2007 (EDT)

I hope, but not....^^

follow up to User:Xavi#Hi, Xavi

Hi! So how did the farming go?! :)

As for the Sugar PO, check the Sugar i18n page... iirc, you have the basics there. Still too crude, we should try to polish the process and then push for all the other activities to join. Cheers, --Xavi 23:45, 5 June 2007 (EDT)

What Xavi said -- and we do need process reviews. Let us know what works and what doesn't. Sj talk

XO Korea in Special:Wantedpages

Hi! I just happened to notice that of the ~6500 wanted pages, XO Korea and derivatives account for ~4500 (70%) of them! Another place where XO Korea is causing disruption is in the Special:Lonelypages (although much smaller in quantity - see also Translated pages/Orphan, where I tried to hack the wiki (don't feel proud about it) in order to clear it up somehow).

Such volume turns those Special:Specialpages a bit pointless... do you think you could reduce the volume? Cheers, --Xavi 00:15, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

follow-up to User talk:Xavi#Wanted page etc.

Great! And thanks! :) BTW, the orphan pages it's hard to determine as inclusion is (afaik) not considered a reference (ie: all the /translations are tagged as orphans, when in fact they are included... ) which complicates cleaning up...

Another observation, many pages of XO Korea have spaces (at the beginning) of their names... not very practical (and confusing?) Cheers, --Xavi 01:13, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

안녕하세요, 시마시마입니다 ^ㅅ^ Hello, This is Cymacyma :-)

와아, 저도 만나뵈어 무지무지 반갑습니다! 아직 모르는 게 많지만 열심히 하겠습니다! Wow, Very very nice to meet you! I don't know much things Yet, but I'll do my best!

templates

Hi! long time! :)

I noticed that many of the Category:Translations lang-ko don't have the {{Translation}}... you do add the {{Translations}} template to the original, but not it's counterpart in the korean version. Those templates are designed to allow the navigation between all languages, but the Korean pages are just dead ends...

I've added it to some pages, but would ask you to verify the remaining pages... --Xavi 03:10, 13 July 2007 (EDT)

See my reply to your comments :) --Xavi 11:48, 13 July 2007 (EDT)

Maybe you missed my my reply to your reply to my comments about using half-way the {{Translations}}-{{Translation}}... please read it.

Another possibility (if the fact that it takes up two lines is too much) there's always the possibility of creating a new slimmer template, or even a korean specifi one. What I wouldn't like is to lose the inter-language navigational capabilities once you hit a page translated to korean...

BTW, I also made a comment about the inclusion of categories (can't recall the exact category now). Cheers, --Xavi 03:27, 16 July 2007 (EDT)

---

Maybe I wasn't clear: the purpose of the {{Translations}}+/translations+{{Translation}} triad is to allow the navigation between language versions of some content, not countries and their content. Nothing more, nothing else. Regions or countries, are not part of the deal, as there is a specific Category:Countries and their specific pages. I see very little (even negative) value in pages like LOGO/lang-ko as:

1. it's an identical copy of LOGO—redundant;
2. drops the use of {{Translation}}—a (language-based navigation) dead-end; and
3. above all, it's not translated—defeating the purpose of language navigation and the translation effort.

My comments were not oriented at suggesting to specialize the 'translations' for places where korean is spoken, but rather make a distinction between language and country/region aspects. --Xavi 12:29, 16 July 2007 (EDT)

BOT account

Hi php5, great to see you around as usual. You should get a bot account!

Please make a separate account for scripted uploads to the wiki -- like your sequential uploads of district and scohol information -- and run them via that account? then we can give that user a bot flag, and it won't show up in the default recentchanges... Sj talk 02:58, 14 July 2007 (EDT)

Sorry, I know you're not using an actual script -- I mean for any "mass" page uploads and changes. The trick is to be able to separate hundreds of similar edits from other edits, so that RC remains useful for everyone. Maybe user:php5-bulk :-) Sj talk 03:23, 14 July 2007 (EDT)

curriculum jam korea

Have OLPC Korea considered hosting a curriculum jam? It would be great if you could organize one at a local school or other center; see Curriculum Jam Manila et al. Sj talk 02:59, 14 July 2007 (EDT)

great to hear. I'm sure Mel will have good ideas for you as well. Sj talk 03:23, 14 July 2007 (EDT)

Hi - this is Mel from Curriculum Jam Manila (and Curriculum Jam coordination overall). We'd love to have a Korean team come to Manila and collaborate with us in running a Jam, or (better yet) run a parallel Jam at your location. What would you be interested in doing? Leave a note on my talk page and let's talk. Mchua 21:48, 14 July 2007 (EDT)

Got your note - that sounds great. I'm curious to hear what you and your buddies are thinking - let me know when you're ready to talk in a few days. :) Mchua 00:32, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

Regarding more information on the Manila Jam - that's something that does need to get done, the short version is that it's not planned yet (really, as of now, we just have a few people that think "man, we should have a Manila curriculum jam. Let's do it." and not much else). The date for all the content jams is going to be the first weekend in October (Friday night to Sunday evening) but I'm trying to find a location in Manila willing to donate space and host us. As for the number of people, I think that 10 teams is a pretty reasonable goal, probably between 2-5 educators per team (they will be writing classroom activities and testing them with the students on Sunday afternoon), so shoot for 10 teams, ~30 creators total + ~5 organizers = ~35 people total, plus ~5 kids per team for testing, so ~50 local students (and their parents, if the parents want to watch). Does this help? If you want to have a faster discussion, I'm often on IRC, in #olpc-content with the nick mchua. Mchua 20:50, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

Awesome! Can't wait to see the Jam plans you come up with. Mchua 20:58, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

jam in taipei?

There's interest in having a jam in taipei in 10 days... do you have friends in the area who might want to come by? Sj talk

{{Korean-small}}

Oops! I'm glad you picked up my suggestion, but actually my suggestion was supposed to be the code in the {{Korean-small}} template... And then thinking a little bit more about it, I was going to suggest that the font size be added as an optional parameter in the original {{Korean}} thus eliminating the need for the small version and preserving the current use... --Xavi 08:21, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

Summer of Content translation

Hi! Just noticed you are starting to translate those pages, in which case I would suggest you hold back a while since there's been a major restructuring of those pages and it's still going on (I'm doing the translation in order to verify and check the pages). Lots of pages have been moved and their links have to be changed, templates that weren't templates (just text) were moved back to the main space (and this causes problems)... so yes... I would recommed you just delay your assault on those pages for a while... :) --Xavi 14:05, 19 July 2007 (EDT)

ok, i see php5 15:17, 19 July 2007 (EDT)

gdick question

There's a python project for multiingual dictionaries: http://gdick.kldp.net/

Do you know anyone who has hacked on this, or uses it regularly? Sj talk 21:31, 20 July 2007 (EDT)

test

Hello Sj, just leaving you a message on your talk page.

XOs for Jam

Hope this answers your question - will that work? Mchua 23:18, 23 July 2007 (EDT)

Got your message, see reply Mchua

Summer of Content contact list

I moved you from the main Summer of Content page contacts section into the Summer of Content mentors page, under OLPC. The first one is for the people (myself, SJ, and Wayne) who are handling program administration (funding, legal stuff, and things like that), and the second is for people who are interested in mentoring or helping out with projects (such as yourself). Mchua 04:20, 24 July 2007 (EDT)

I don't mind at all :-)

But you want to change the specifics! Like a different prefill template... and I didn't bother to make mine pretty at all; I was just demonstrating new ideas. Sj talk 13:09, 24 July 2007 (EDT)

Echo SJ - please, copy away! As you said, that's how we learn from one another. (And your idea about making activities for each industry is a great project idea for SoCon - would you be interested in potentially mentoring an intern, if there is interest?) Mchua 17:54, 24 July 2007 (EDT)

industrial categories

I think that being odd is a good thing, actually; the people who think outside the box are usually the ones who change the world, so you're doing a great job. :) You shouldn't have to edit all those thousands of categories yourself, though - want to try making a really nice project page with a more fleshed-out description so that you can start recruiting people (both in Korea and around the world) to help you make the pages and activities? Mchua 19:55, 24 July 2007 (EDT)

Is this what you had in mind?

I tried to rephrase your proposal in Games based on industry sectors so that it was a little clearer. The revision has a stronger emphasis on content production - I think it would be great to make the workflows for an economic simulation (and I put that in as a possible deliverable as well) but I think that creating content for each industry will be a fast way to jump-start interest in this project, and that getting people to make workflows and code games will be very easy once there is a body of content for the programmers to draw on (perhaps even as a Summer of Code project, as it is very engineering-heavy). Let me know what you think. Mchua 08:56, 25 July 2007 (EDT)

story telling

What do you think of trying something like the Our Stories guide for recording stories witih XOs? Sj talk 12:51, 10 August 2007 (EDT)

Two versions of Draw/lang-ko page

Php5,

I have found two versions of the Draw/lang-ko page. If you could be so kind and merge the two versions..

Draw/lang-ko
Draw/lang-ko2

Into the proper translation of Draw, that would be great!  :) Thanks, --iainD 00:48, 4 February 2008 (EST)