Talk:Education Ideas

I will probably make multiple pages from this discussion, which ranges from technical details about how to use a wiki, to questions of language choice, to questions of educational content. Not that these are completely unrelated topics, but the threads are getting difficult to follow. --Walter

What's keeping OLPC from creating a Forum? You may be making things too difficult for yourselves handling disparate ideas this way. Forum software can be installed with a ratings system, meaning those who honestly contribute can be rated so.

Request

Could you possibly consider implementing the ideas in the "Additional facilities which could expand the capabilities possible with this wiki" section please, if that can be done using the present wiki-engine.

William Overington 1222 GMT 23 March 2006

Esperanto?

Is OLPC serious about using Esperanto as the language of educators? Or is this just a pipe dream of the people who contribute to this Wiki?

I personally like the idea of a "worldwide education language", but from a practical standpoint I think it is an extreme disapointment. As mentioned in the article, English is the current "worldwide education language" and probably it would be much more practial to choose it. (case in point: are any of this wiki's pages written in Esperanto?)

If Esperanto is not the language of choice, I strongly recomend moving the associated verbage in the article to the talk page, as it's presence conveys some sence of standard. --JasonS 11:01, 23 March 2006 (EST)

It has been moved to start a new page, Education Ideas Esperanto, that seeming to be a neutral balance.

Moved from the main page

It's better to make some pages rather than suggest that pages be made

Additional facilities which could expand the capabilities possible with this wiki

If there were added to the server a directory named, say, http://wiki.laptop.org/wiki/OLPC_Idea_Pool/items and a page named, say, http://wiki.laptop.org/wiki/OLPC_Idea_Pool/bridge with the page http://wiki.laptop.org/wiki/OLPC_Idea_Pool/bridge being accessible by clicking on a hyperlink on the page http://wiki.laptop.org/wiki/OLPC_Idea_Pool and then the page http://wiki.laptop.org/wiki/OLPC_Idea_Pool/bridge had on it a facility to upload a file from the end user's PC to the items directory provided that the file name used is not the same as that of a file already stored in the items directory, then people could upload .htm files, .gif file, .TTF files, .PDF files and whatever types of file they wish. If someone uploaded a file named, say, graph017.gif then that file would automatically have the web address of http://wiki.laptop.org/wiki/OLPC_Idea_Pool/items/graph017.gif and could the referenced as an image from a .htm file added to the http://wiki.laptop.org/wiki/OLPC_Idea_Pool/items directory.

Thus a whole webspace with its support files could be developed in the http://wiki.laptop.org/wiki/OLPC_Idea_Pool/items directory, with graphics on pages and links to right click download pdfs, all with an automatic record keeping system as no file would ever be replaced. Entry to the webspace would be from a link in a page such as this, which could be changed. So it would be a matter of discussing in a page such as this what is needed then preparing files and only uploading them once the content is stabilized.

I do not know how the Wiki software works so I do not know whether adding such a facility would be a major software engineering task or just a few adjustments using existing facilities or something somewhere in between.

William Overington

19 March 2006

PS I wrote the above and then previewed it. I had referred to the web address of the graphic as http:// wiki.laptop.org/ wiki/ OLPC_Idea_Pool/ items/ graph017.gif (spaces put in here so that I can indicate what I was trying to put) and the wiki tried to actually show the graphic in this document rather than include a link to it!

If you don't want that behavio(u)r then you should include the content/link inside example tags.

Ah, like this.

http://wiki.laptop.org/wiki/OLPC_Idea_Pool/items/graph017.gif

Thank you for demonstrating how to do this in the source code of the page. William Overington 22 March 2006

The flaw with ...

The text here was moved from the main page where it did not seem to flow. In addition, its focus on flaws seemed more appropriate here in the discussion.

The flaw with the Teacher-Student Schools/Cells of Educating/Advising is the Teachers/ Instructors, if you remove the Teachers, then after an initial startup time you have a Cell of Learners who Learn, Advise, Relearn and Improve for each other. Some of Year two Instruct Year one etc etc... when and if they require it! If the Learners can use the Educational tool or in the case laptops (After some help from IT volunteers which need to be supplied on a volunteer basis by large corporations for say 6 months at a time, 1 volunteer per company with over 500 people should cover it!), then in future after a short time the requirement for even the IT volunteers will go away) then you only need a small group of more proficient Learners to support Cell in terms of the IT problems. From where I see this project it is a chance to restart the model of Educating young learners and bring it more up to the twenty 1st century.

I have another Idea for the IT volunteers program because as Companies are naturally resistant to provide free workers for a volunteer program, someone from OLPC sets up a program to work with University IT departments, and instead of IT students going on a Year out in a Company during their Degree (Bsc) they take a six month mission to help provide IT Support and Advise for Developing nations and are placed in one of the Schools/Cells.

If one or some of the students are slower then they work with younger learners who they can work with, you dissolve the hirachy in the system, Year one/ Year two, Student/Teacher and the labeling age14, Age15, Age16, / Maths/ Physics / Computing, Pass/ Fail, Qualification of Pass or fail and create a learning environment which is as natural as it can be.

The Internet as a Backbone

The internet is the living example of what global unity in information exchange is, and the upcoming idea of "Web 2.0", or an "always-on, integrated" internet I think proposes a way to provide the educational content on the scale that it needs to be. I feel that once these laptops are distributed to local communities across the globe, through local wi-fi (the idea of which is not unique to me by any means) that is distributed through the schools or a designated "community center," the internet can be accessed.

Once this connection between the world's young students and the world's information is established, I feel that the best way to start the education process would be a very meticulously crafted website or series of websites that cover the educational needs for various grade levels. For example, very easy to navigate lessons using flash websites and pictures for pre-school to middle school children. Then as fluency in the use of the internet increases and a more advanced study continues, use of other web sites and internet services can be brought in to the more advanced students in high school/college area.

Educational Outline

[Comment by Carine Simon, April 4, 2006] Do you include Biology in Physical Sciences? I say so, because for issues related to health, hygiene, sexuality, reproduction, etc, learning some biology concepts are key. Also, maybe in Step 2, I would add some civic education such as study of the main forms of governments, the 3 powers (executive, legislative, judiciary), the role of the media, and teaching of the local system of administration so that people are empowered.

[Comment by Brian Clements, April 16, 2006 I agree fully with those recommendations. The outline below was just a starting point. Organize your ideas into an order you see fit and add it below. I think too that as soon as we start getting specific with what the outline should be, it will get very large very quickly. So it might be good to keep it on the general side until notice is given that this outline is even going to be implemented. Then I think a seperate page can be started and the specifics can be hammered out. End comment by Brian Clements, April 16, 2006]

1. First Steps (pre-school to middle school):

• Learn the language of learning
• Learn the metric system
• Basic physical sciences and early math
• Art/Music (I feel arts education is just as crucial to healthy education as anything else, but there

is no set way to teach this. This would purely be left up to the specific teachers and their staffs to organize)

[Comment by William Overington 12 March 2006

> Art/Music (I feel arts education is just as crucial to healthy education as anything else, but there is no set way to teach this. This would purely be left up to the specific teachers and their staffs to organize)

Well, maybe some project supported music education might be possible, though teacher support might be needed to organize it.

An idea I thought of some time ago was called Chloe and Phil music.

Chloe and Phil music fonts can be used to produce graphics showing the scores of short pieces of percussion music using untuned percussion instruments which each produce one note. People can hopefully enjoy playing such music and enjoy writing new pieces.

There are some notes about it just after half-way down the following web page.

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ngo/font7001.htm

(The notes about problems with Quest text are now obsolete, I need to update that old web page.)

The further glyphs provide for more complex rhythms using single tone instruments and so that two tone drums and improvised two tone instruments can be used and so that a repeated section with different endings can be used.

End of comment by William Overington 12 March 2006]

[Comment by Carine Simon, Cambridge, April 15 2006] I don't think that art should be put so much emphasis. Of course, some access to art is good, like discovering major schools in painting, music, etc. However, what seems to be missing from the curriculum is Humanities, and maybe this is what you wrongly call Art. By Humanities, I imply learning to read, write in your own language, as well as the language of choice (I would favor languages that are prevalent in the area e.g Mandarin in Asia, English or French where they are prevalent in Africa... Mastering your own language is key to communicating and learning other languages. I would also start learning History, Geography and life sciences. Why start math now, but postpone these later? It looks to me that the curriculum proposed has a big engineering bias... Don't forget that the goal is not to train children to a job, but to give them the tools to be educated citizens of this world able to make their own choices in life. [End of Comment by Carine]

[Comment by Brian Clements 12 March 2006

I think it's a good idea I think that perhaps introductory lessons on music theory could involve that to some extent early on. But I think it may get limiting too quick. An program I found on the web that is currently only for windows, but is open source, is LenMus Phonascus found here http://www.lenmus.org/ . I haven’t used it yet but allows for anything from theory lessons to advanced ear training. That would cover the gamut for all levels of involvement; introductory to mastery.

In keeping with the web 2.0 mentality however, http://www.musictheory.net/ allows for a GREAT way to cover all music theory topics, again from basic to mastery. It has a great interface that is clean and functional.

End of comment by Brian Clements 12 March 2006]

2. Welcome to the World

• Learn the basic workings of the internet and how the technology the students are using works
• Perhaps learn how to use the internet for personal use, blogs and wikis on their community page?
• Learn literature, both unique to their particular culture (in native tongue) and accepted works

worldwide (translated to Esperanto)

• History oriented for their specific country
• Continue the mastery of Esperanto
• More advanced learning of math and sciences, more incorporation of current worldwide news and

relevant scientific discoveries 3. Higher Learning

• By this point the students should be enabled to get around the internet with ease, therefore

seeking and finding any information and news they are interested in.

As a note, I feel, and I think this is obvious, that no specific religious education should be brought into the education until much later in the students learning when it becomes a personally driven academic venture. Their native culture and religion should be preserved and held in high regard. I think since this common educational ground is spanning so many different cultures and religions, this is an important ideal to be set early on.

[Comment by Carine Simon, April 15 2006] Don't you think that students should be introduced to the major world religions? I don't know if they will ever have an unbiased source of information about other religions than their own. [End comment by Carine]

[Comment by Brian Clements, April 16, 2006 I am for the education of major world religions 100% in this context. My point was that I didn't want a single particular religion being tied to the whole project; like just Catholicism or just Islam, or Buddhism. That's why I said it was obvious above. I felt it needed to be in type somewhere on the page however. Another thing to take into consideration is what native religions exist in the particular geographic regions being educated. It may not be socially acceptable to even consider other religions in some parts of the world. So I would think that very careful planning and execution would have to take place for each particular implementation around the globe. End of comment by Brian Clements, April 16, 2006]

Brian Clements 11 March 2006