OLPC:Volunteer Infrastructure Group/2008-09-30

Action Items

ACTION ITEM: put a list of needed/wanted roles on wiki incl. sec'y

Agenda

17:15 <@hhardy> Need secretary
17:15 <@hhardy> Heavy wiki usage bringing pedal to a crawl--Uruguay
17:15 <@hhardy> Lfaraone committee on single-signon options
17:15 <@hhardy> SAGE Sysadmin Ethics Statements
17:15 <@hhardy> GPG
17:15 <@hhardy> State of rt
17:15 <@hhardy> Big Sister/oncall schedule
17:15 <@hhardy> Big Sister tuning
17:15 <@hhardy> Big Sister maintainer

Need secretary

17:15 <@hhardy> ---START---
17:15 <@hhardy> hi all
17:15 <@hhardy> who is here and awake?
17:15 < dogi> ne
17:15 < dogi> me
17:16 < isforinsects> Hi hi
17:16 <@hhardy> ffm was here a minute ago
17:17 <@hhardy> ok first item: it would be nice if someone would like to take the task of preparing and posting the meeting minutes
17:17 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: Need Secretary
17:17 <@hhardy> isforinsects and mel have been helping me
17:17 <@hhardy> but as we are all employees, we are in a crunch for 8.2 release and G1G1
17:18  * isforinsects is usually panicKing and busy
17:18 <@hhardy> Let's mention this to support-gang, perhaps someone from there would liuke to help
17:19 <@hhardy> ACTION ITEM: put a list of needed/wanted roles on wiki incl. sec'y

Heavy wiki usage

17:19 -!- cjb [~cjb@pullcord.laptop.org] has joined #olpc-admin
17:19 -!- _sj_ [~sj_@18.85.49.41] has joined #olpc-admin
17:19 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: Heavy wiki usage bringing pedal to a crawl--Uruguay
17:20 < _sj_> uuu
17:20 <@hhardy> mememe
17:20 < _sj_> uuu loves wiwiwi
17:20 <@hhardy> ok lol(olol)
17:20 < dogi> hi sj
17:20 < dogi> hi cjb
17:20 <@hhardy> pedal is getting very slow esp every morning around 9 and at noon
17:20 <@hhardy> lot of action from uruguay
17:21 <@hhardy> and this will pick up a lot with G1G1 and other deployments coming online
17:21 < _sj_> dogi!  I was just wanting to talk to you
17:21 <@hhardy> caching is a bit complicated because there's a lot of live content which doesn't port well to squid or like
17:21 < _sj_> I have a q for the gang here
17:21 < _sj_> in addition to the wiki trouble
17:21 -!- reubencaron [~reubenkca@dhcp-49-81.media.mit.edu] has joined #olpc-admin
17:22 < _sj_> how do we harden mailman so that it an support a 100,000-person mailing list/
17:22 < _sj_> ?
17:22 <@hhardy> for the nonce, I reduced the keep-alive time from 15 to 10 seconds and reduced the number of keep-alive sessions from 100 to 80
17:22 < _sj_> I'd like to gather a list of everyone who wants g1g1 announcements / updates.  might be much larger than other lists we have.  
17:22 < cjb> _sj_: people who manage 100,000 person mailing lists don't use mailman
17:22 < _sj_> we'd need to make sure that outgoing mail is batched somehow so it's not flagged as spam from our isp, &c
17:22 < _sj_> right :)
17:22 < _sj_> what do they use then?
17:22 <@hhardy> on the theory that most of the XO's probably take > 15 seconds to load 1 page and therefore not benefiting from the keep-alive anyway
17:22 < cjb> there's mass-mailing software out there
17:22 < cjb> I don't have experience with it, though
17:22 < cjb> anyway, it's a different usecase to mailman
17:23 <@hhardy> let's send that out from google or somewhere offsite pls
17:23 <@hhardy> poor pedal 
17:23 <@hhardy> are we going to talk about mass mailing sw?
17:23 < _sj_> civimail via civicrm perhaps
17:23 < _sj_> another machine for that?
17:23 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: mass mailing software
17:24 < _sj_> can that be on the same machine as a non-core-mail dev machine?
17:24 < cjb> hhardy: first we'd have to find someone who knows anything about mass mailing software
17:24 < _sj_> the interesting problem raised by the wiki slowdown is:
17:24 < cjb> so no, probably not a good idea to talk about it now
17:24 <@hhardy> it could also be a problem regarding MIT's acceptable use policies
17:24 < _sj_> we need to separate core mail processing from other activities that may get swamped
17:24 < _sj_> since mail is critical to our work
17:24 < isforinsects> sj, don't change the subject
17:24 <@hhardy> let's take this next week if there is a proposal
17:24 < isforinsects> massive amounts of mail.
17:24 < _sj_> I think the relevant solution to the bug
17:24 < _sj_> (originally) which was nn's mail not getting through
17:24 < _sj_> is to separate wiki server from mailserver.
17:25 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: Heavy wiki usage bringing pedal to a crawl--Uruguay
17:25 < _sj_> "bringing pedal to a crawl" is too much of a blocker atm
17:25 <@hhardy> I said I didn't want to comtinue getting complaints from NN about his mail being delayed
17:25 <@hhardy> the base problem is load average up to 77
17:25 <@hhardy> and > 20 seconds to load a webpage or wiki page
17:25 < _sj_> dogi, that mail questoin above was for you :) that's what I was looking for you about.
17:25 <@hhardy> and cpu at 94%
17:25 < lfaraone> (back)
17:26 < _sj_> I'm done with it atm
17:26 < cjb> putting the wiki somewhere else sounds good
17:27 <@hhardy> I'm concerned that links to the wiki and website were put into the recent XO builds without due consideration or care about the impact on our existing mission critical systems
17:27 < lfaraone> hhardy: can we set up squid caches?
17:27 < lfaraone> hhardy: ask our friends at RH/google to assist?
17:27 <@hhardy> can we find somewhere offsite such as OSUOSL where the main wiki could move to?
17:27 < _sj_> 1 mailserver.  1 wiki server (with memchaced and squid set up, even if minimal, to support better caching).  
17:27 <@hhardy> squid isn't that good for content generated on the fly
17:28 < cjb> I think we need control of it, since it's giving our users software to install automatically
17:28 < _sj_> 1 server for active dev services (trac, rt, git)
17:28 < lfaraone> hhardy: squid/memcached is used my mediawiki.
17:28 < lfaraone> hhardy: *wikimedia
17:28 < _sj_> squid + apaches with memcached works just fine for large dynamic wikis
17:28 <@hhardy> I would also suggest looking into fastcgi
17:28 < _sj_> once the basic setup is in place it's not so hard to add in new machines to take on more load
17:29 <@hhardy> does someone want to look into scalability issues for wiki?
17:29 <@hhardy> and come up with a proposal or list of suggestions?
17:30 < _sj_> $wgMainCacheType = CACHE_NONE;
17:30 < _sj_> $wgMessageCacheType = CACHE_NONE;
17:30 < _sj_> $wgParserCacheType = CACHE_NONE;
17:30 < _sj_> $wgCachePages = false;
17:30 < _sj_> these should all be updated.
17:30 < _sj_> a memcached cache is the current recommendation
17:30 < skierpage> http://dammit.lt/2007/01/26/mediawiki-performance-tuning/ has some simple stuff
17:30 < _sj_> and I believe there's an outstanding ticket for it
17:30 < _sj_> domas would be glad to give us some further advice and help, but if we haven't already done basic tuning he'll be less likely to engage
17:30 <@hhardy> let's find that ticket and prioritize it
17:31 <@hhardy> is it in rt? or trac?
17:31 < _sj_> (domas is dammit on irc and runs dammit.lt)
17:31 < _sj_> rt
17:31 <@hhardy> checking rt
17:32 < _sj_> thoughts on the suggested 3-machine division of labor above?
17:32  * dogi checking w.l.o config
17:32 <@hhardy> agree in principle
17:32 -!- Ian_Daniher [~it@69.61.230.246] has joined #olpc-admin
17:33 < cjb> oh, I have a machines question
17:33 < cjb> are weka/owl/awk/the other one doing anything?
17:33 <@hhardy> weka: dont know
17:33 <@hhardy> owl and swan, just mirroring crank and pedal
17:34 < cjb> ok
17:34 <@hhardy> awk, intended to be mirror for OLPC-MFG
17:34 < cjb> I can't ping owl or swan
17:34 < cjb> is that normal?
17:34 <@hhardy> they have been re-iped so they can go to W-91
17:34 < cjb> ok
17:34 < cjb> are they better specs than crank and pedal?
17:34 <@hhardy> I sent a email on that sorry if you didn't get it cjb
17:34 <@hhardy> yes
17:34 <@hhardy> marginally
17:34 < cjb> nah, I think I just didn't pay attention
17:34 < cjb> ok
17:34 <@hhardy> more memory
17:34 < cjb> I was wondering if it's worth switching over to them
17:35 < cjb> how much more?
17:35 <@hhardy> 8 gb v 4
17:35 < cjb> ok
17:35 < cjb> ok, that's all from me
17:35 <@hhardy> once pedal and crank are updated nicely, then we can triage out things and see what use we can make of swan and owl when not in "emergency failover" mode
17:36 < dogi> due i understand it right mailman and all mediawiki is on one server now u wanna split that up?
17:36 <@hhardy> their hardware specs are documented on internal wiki I think
17:36 <@hhardy> dogi: yes 
17:36 < dogi> 3 server?
17:36 < lfaraone> which most VIG members cannot see.
17:37 <@hhardy> moving the docs to teamwiki is controversial due to there being a disagreement from sj about setting up a new namespace on the teamwiki
17:37 -!- adric [~adric@adsl-065-007-149-211.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #olpc-admin
17:38 < _sj_> which docs?
17:38 < dogi> how the internal netstructur is bild
17:38 < dogi> +u
17:38 < adric> oops, sorry here now
17:38 < _sj_> is there a need to separate that group from the trusted tech-group on the teamwiki?
17:38 < cjb> yes
17:39 <@hhardy> https://laptop.org/internalwiki/index.php/Network_and_System_Administration_documentation
17:39 < cjb> we are legally bound to keep tech NDA documents inside the company
17:39 < _sj_> currently we have a tech-group and a private-group (the latter is for staff under nda)
17:39 < lfaraone> cjb: really? 
17:39 < cjb> well, given that that's what an NDA means, yes.
17:39 < _sj_> the nda material is being moved to the private-group
17:39 < lfaraone> cjb: I thought it allowed for non-emplyees under a NDA.
17:39 < cjb> ok
17:39 < cjb> lfaraone: oh, it does
17:39 < _sj_> and the files themselves will be moved elsewhere
17:39 < cjb> ok

SAGE - GPG

17:40 < dogi> were i have to sign?
17:40 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: moving docs to teamwiki from internal
17:40 < dogi> :)
17:40 < cjb> that sounds fine, then, check with other users of tech that they don't mind their stuff being visible
17:40 < _sj_> to a file control system with proper acl's (mediawiki doesn't provide that)
17:40 < cjb> s/visible/more visible/
17:40 < _sj_> will do.  I'm open to concerns and complaints
17:40 < _sj_> I just don't want to make a namespace if it's not going to be clear what the diff is and people will wonder what to put where, &c
17:40 < _sj_> needless forking is confusing --> less use --> stale data
17:41 <@hhardy> dogi: send the list (or henry@l.o) a pgp-signed letter agreeing to abide by the SAGE code of ethics
17:41 < dogi> is that an option that new member of VIG sign the NDA?
17:41 < dogi> ok
17:41 < _sj_> I couldn't find the rt ticket # but found the original email and resent it
17:41 < _sj_> re memcached
17:41 <@hhardy> http://www.sage.org/ethics/ethics_vert.pdf
17:42  * _sj_ is away
17:42 -!- _sj_ is now known as _sj-
17:42 < lfaraone> hhardy: you rcv'd mine, right?
17:43 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: SAGE Sysadmin Ethics Statements
17:43 <@hhardy> lfaraone: I haven't seen it
17:43 <@hhardy> I don't see it in my gmail under lfaraone either
17:45 <@hhardy> I set up the shared calendar for the VIG for oncall and big sis monitoring etc.
17:45 < lfaraone> hhardy: try "luke at laptop"
17:45 <@hhardy> I put some people on and sent invites, if you would like access to it please email sysadmin@l.o
17:45 < lfaraone> hhardy: sent on the 4th
17:45 <@hhardy> found it lf
17:45 <@hhardy> good show
17:46 < adric> Is mine to the list okay?
17:46 <@hhardy> yes list is preferred
17:49 <@hhardy> we are still looking for a Big sister maintainer and oncall coordinator(s)
17:50 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: Big sister
17:50 <@hhardy> any new business?
17:51 <@hhardy> la la la...

single-signon

17:51 < lfaraone> hhardy: you skipped the sso topic.
17:51 <@hhardy> ah sorry
17:51 < adric> He skipped a few :)
17:51 <@hhardy> lfaraone, single sign on
17:51 <@hhardy> and adric rt next
17:51 < lfaraone> hhardy: Basically, there's OpenID, obviously.
17:51 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: single sign on
17:51 < lfaraone> There's OLPC-spesific SSO via kerberos/LDAP.
17:52 < lfaraone> And then there are various other proprietary techs.
17:52 < lfaraone> I'm not going to cover the latter, because I don't think that's somehting to be considered.
17:52 < lfaraone> With LDAP: OLPC can run password verification checks, it can be as secure as _we_ want.
17:54 < lfaraone> OpenID: Third party auth provider, they often have very strong authentication (myopenid for example has voice auth, verisign has one-time-keys via SMS)
17:54 < lfaraone> OpenID: We don't have to maintain the password system and deal with the email loop.
17:54 < lfaraone> Problems with OpenID: Double edged sword: Some providers provide little to no authentication.
17:55 < lfaraone> Any questions?
17:55 <@hhardy> http://openid.net/
17:55 < dogi> hhardy: signing is done
17:55 <@hhardy> why do we need this?
17:55 <@hhardy> thanks dogi
17:56 <@hhardy> and, how much of this could be implemented using our own ssh keys?
17:56 < lfaraone> hhardy: People have asked for it, it reduces the burden on the user.
17:56 < adric> Please don't refer to openid as a provider? It's a way to pick who/where you want to provide login.
17:56 <@hhardy> how much burden is it to enter your pw once and have browser remember it?
17:56 < lfaraone> hhardy: ...
17:56 < adric> Also which signons are we talking about glomming together?
17:57 < lfaraone> adric: wiki, forum, trac
17:57 < lfaraone> (I'll work with the OSUL group afterwards)
17:57 < cjb> how do you get trac and mediawiki to use the same signon token?
17:57 < lfaraone> adric: I'm NOT saying we should do this on team or internal.
17:57 < dogi> i informed myself yesterday about openid ... and its possible to do it one ... so we dont need a provider ...
17:58 < lfaraone> cjb: You don't, the user just types in their "username" and is refered to their provider, who authenicates them (maybe via cookies)
17:58 < lfaraone> In addition, people who _don't_ want to use OpenID do not have to, current addons are just that, optional.
17:58 < cjb> so if I have the same password for trac and mediawiki, this doesn't really save me anythihg
17:59 < lfaraone> cjb: Correct.
17:59 < lfaraone> cjb: Eventually we'll have more wikis, and more forums.
17:59 < lfaraone> cjb: _sj- has already proposed a es wiki IIRC.
17:59 < lfaraone> cjb: and es.forums.laptop.org is soon to follow.
18:00 < lfaraone> cjb: Oh, and you don't have to have a separate registration for each of the sites.
18:00 < cjb> t desn
18:00 < cjb> oops
18:00 < lfaraone> hhardy: ssh keys would not be useful in a kerberos/ldap or openid context afaict.
18:00 < cjb> it doesn't bother me that I have a separate registration, because I use the same password :)
18:00 < adric> Am incorrect to characterize OID as an additional public-facing service to setup, support, and maintain, that would then make features available to other services?
18:01 < lfaraone> adric: Not nesisarrily.
18:01 < lfaraone> adric: You can choose to be a "consumer" and not a "provider"
18:01 <@hhardy> http://openid.net/get/
18:01 < adric> You want to give folks using our services the option of using third-party authentication services, then?
18:02 < lfaraone> adric: Yes.
18:02 < adric> Ah. That strikes me as .. yeah, I don't liek the sound of it.
18:02 < dogi> no then is better to not use it ...
18:02 < lfaraone> adric: Wiki and trac are not _high security_ services.
18:03 < lfaraone> adric: Many other wikis that are _much_ larger than we are use it w/o a problem, such as wikitravel.org.
18:03 < adric> I'm skeptical enough of the code of wiki , trac, forums without opening them up to huge new vectors for XSS and other nonsense
18:03 < adric> Sure, and I wish them luck :) I've fooled with some OID stuff, and it's nifty.
18:03 < lfaraone> adric: How would this open up a XSS vector?
18:04 < lfaraone> adric: If it causes a problem, we can always disable it, but the risk is minimal IMHO.
18:04 < lfaraone> adric: Again, I'm not the first to ask for this.
18:04 < adric> I can see us leveraging it for SSO, IF we provide a auth provider for our users. Which would be damn cool, but exspensive.
18:04 <@hhardy> there are free providers at link I gave above
18:04 <@hhardy> incl verisign
18:04 < lfaraone> hhardy: That's what I use.
18:04 < adric> XSS, XMLRPC .. whichever ... I deal with a lot of web apps at work, and being made of software they all have flaws.
18:05 < adric> I'm not against it, not trying to veto or anything.
18:05 < lfaraone> hhardy: for 5USD, I got a hardware token that provides me with multi-factor authentication.
18:05  * lfaraone has to be going, food.
18:05 <@hhardy> lfaraone, I think there is not a consensus in favor of this now
18:05 < lfaraone> hhardy: Ok.
18:05 <@hhardy> openid is cool
18:05 <@hhardy> lfaraone, do you want to talk about your trac extension proposal?
18:06 < lfaraone> hhardy: uh, will this meeting be here in 30 minutes?
18:06 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: trac extension for connecting to upstream bugs
18:06  * lfaraone is really away now.
18:06 <@hhardy> lfaraone, hope not
18:06 <@hhardy> but chan is open
18:06 <@hhardy> we can defer this, put something on the public wiki page maybe?
18:06 < adric> You can always throw it up to the list and discuss at later meeting?
18:06 < adric> gmta
18:06 <@hhardy> or to list aye
18:07 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: RT
18:07 <@hhardy> adric state of RT?
18:07 < adric> Unchanged?
18:07 <@hhardy> we need to see about cloning the vserver on solar to get you a sandbox
18:07 < adric> I'd love that.
18:07 <@hhardy> Kim approves
18:08 <@hhardy> if you can look into what we would need to do adric and make plan
18:08 < adric> Sure, do I need to mail her the details, or ?
18:09 <@hhardy> you can cc her
18:09 < adric> Okay,  I think it's in tickets already but I'll put something together.
18:10 <@hhardy> mstone suggests rtfm for vserver clone and look on freenode:#vserver for helps
18:10 <@hhardy> she reads my tickets
18:10 <@hhardy> just update there
18:10 < adric> kk
18:10 <@hhardy> you can admin cc: her if you want
18:10 < m_stone> adric: specifically, speak with dhozac or h. poetzl.
18:10 <@hhardy> ok anything further I overlooked?
18:11 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: new business
18:11 < skierpage> hhardy, I e-mailed some sysadmin list about upgrading the SMW wiki extension to 1.3, is this appropriate?
18:12 <@hhardy> skierpage: yes is appropriate, there's already tickets on this, will merge
18:13 <@hhardy> email me if you want rt access to the web interface
18:14 <@hhardy> ok guys, hungry, last call for this meeting
18:14 < skierpage> ? not sure what you mean.  I would like to be in IRC as the update happens.  And it's only medium priority IMO.
18:14 <@hhardy> theres a web interface to rt at rt.l.o
18:14 <@hhardy> those who dont have acess who want it, email me
18:15 <@hhardy> there's a wiki-gang in formation, isforinsects (seth@l.o) is contact
18:16 <@hhardy> I like sematic wiki, have very little time to do updates, most time isused doing 1st level support for windows users, purchasing, and firefighting
18:16 < adric> Good times.
18:16 <@hhardy> i-g is the tool to break out of this logjam hopefully
18:16 <@hhardy> so we can do cool stuff (tm)
18:16 < adric> :)
18:17 <@hhardy> if you guys want to do a FTF we might be able to get some support/funding from OLPC, can ask
18:17 <@hhardy> any interest?
18:17 < adric> Interest yes, but post G1G1? or amidst
18:17 <@hhardy> post
18:17 < adric> some noise about a con in Jan?
18:17 <@hhardy> well at least after 8.2 rollout
18:18 <@hhardy> yeah if it were together with OLPC/FUDcon maybe
18:18 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: FTF?
18:18 < lfaraone> bACK
18:18 < lfaraone> *Back
18:18 <@hhardy> gOOD
18:19 <@hhardy> ok time up, thanks for coming y'all
18:19 < adric> Yeah, need to see about getting time of or quitting before then :)
18:19 < lfaraone> hhardy: I was wondering if we could briefly revisit my trac ext?
18:19 <@hhardy> sure
18:20 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: Trac extension for upstream tickets
18:20 <@hhardy> go
18:20 < lfaraone> Ok.
18:20 < lfaraone> https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/TracPlugin
18:21 < lfaraone> It's a plugin that would allow better collaboration with downstream consumers (Read: Ubuntu).
18:21 < dogi> hhardy: FTF?
18:21 <@hhardy> FTF=face-to-face
18:21 < dogi> nono
18:21 <@hhardy> meeting in person
18:21 < lfaraone> It allows comments to be shared between bugs that occur in both trackers.
18:21 < dogi> there is a FTF open between us
18:21 <@hhardy> oh lol
18:22 < lfaraone> So if someone reports a bug in ubuntu, and the same bug is also in trac, we can sync the comments so that efforts do not have to be duplicated.
18:22 <@hhardy> is there something like this in fedora world?
18:22 < lfaraone> hhardy: Not yet afaict.
18:23 < lfaraone> hhardy: Fedora uses bugzilla, bugzilla is working on an extention like this iirc.
18:23 <@hhardy> where this could really help, there is a discussion today about whether to have a seperate sugarlabs trac
18:23 <@hhardy> would be nice if the two could coordinate
18:24 < lfaraone> hhardy: This is trac-launchpad only ATM, not trac-trac
18:24 <@hhardy> lfaraone, send me a ticket asking for this feature, and put in a similar request to sugarlabs maybe?
18:24 < lfaraone> hhardy: Does sugarlabs have trac yet?
18:24 <@hhardy> I don't think so it was proposed
18:25 < lfaraone> hhardy: Ok.
18:25 < lfaraone> Any objections to this extention? 
18:25 < lfaraone> adric? cjb ?
18:25 < adric> sec
18:25 <@hhardy> simon, mel, marco, and gary martin proposed 2 days ago
18:26 < cjb> I think I object
18:26 < cjb> because we're never actually needed to merge Trac with Launchpad
18:26 < cjb> or linked any Trac bugs to Launchpad bugs
18:26 < cjb> what's the point?
18:26 < lfaraone> cjb: Yes, I have.
18:26 < lfaraone> cjb: And as the Sugar-on-ubuntu userbase grows, more people will report the bugs at Ubuntu.
18:27 < cjb> I'd prefer us to solve problems we have now
18:27 < cjb> rahter than problems we might have in the future
18:27 <@hhardy> well in that case this would be more pertaining to the proposed sugarlabs trac than ours
18:27 < lfaraone> hhardy: Yes, but I doubt that that trac will be created soon.
18:28 < lfaraone> cjb: example: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sugar/+bug/229057
18:28 <@hhardy> lfaraone, could you discuss this with mel, gary, marco and simon perhaps, see what they think?
18:28 < lfaraone> hhardy: Ok.
18:29 < lfaraone> In any case, this is a very small extention, the work to implement is minimal.
18:29 <@hhardy> ACTION ITEM: lfaraone to discuss trac and launchpad intgration with Mel, Gary, Marco, Simon and report back
18:29 < cjb> lfaraone: I don't really understand why you filed this on launchpad
18:29 < cjb> since it's clear that upstream is going to do the work
18:29 < lfaraone> cjb: heh.
18:29  * dogi uses launchpad
18:30 < lfaraone> cjb: Ubuntu has nice debugging tools that they attach to bug reports.
18:30 < cjb> then maybe it would be a better use of your time to work on nice debugging tools for the XO?  :)
18:30  * cjb would love a "report bug" activity
18:30 < lfaraone> ...
18:30 < cjb> that recorded versions of everything
18:30 < lfaraone> cjb: No, you wouldn't.
18:30 < cjb> why not?
18:30 < lfaraone> cjb: When every single urugian child mashes the "submit to CJB!" button
18:31 < lfaraone> cjb: which I'm going to put in the center  of the activity in blinking red :)
18:31 < cjb> .. or you could not do that
18:31 < cjb> I think I still want the activity
18:31 < cjb> the fact that we don't get bug reports from uruguay
18:31 < cjb> (because our Trac instance is not localized, primarily)
18:31 < cjb> is a bug in itself
18:32 < cjb> and should be fixed.  a bug reporting activity would be a good solution.
18:32 < cjb> do you see?
18:32 < lfaraone> cjb: Yes.
18:32 -!- skierpage_ [~skierpage@76.14.64.22] has joined #olpc-admin
18:32 < dogi> cjb: a feedback activity?
18:32 < cjb> yes
18:32 < adric> ubuntu's bug report -> launchpad gadget is nifty ...
18:33 -!- skierpage [~skierpage@76.14.64.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:33 < adric> i dunno if i'd ever suggest a user use it, but uh
18:33 <@hhardy> who will enter a trac enhancement for bug reporting activity?
18:33 < lfaraone> adric: launchpad is ubuntu's bug report.
18:33 -!- skierpage_ is now known as skierpage
18:33 < adric> lfaraone: sorry, meant crash reporter -> launchpad
18:34 <@hhardy> ACTION ITEM: propose bug-report activity
18:34 <@hhardy> ok guys I'm going to end the meeting officially as this is dragging on but will lurk a bit longer
18:34 <@hhardy> thanks much for coming
18:34 <@hhardy> ---END---
18:35 <@hhardy> I like the idea of a bug report activity, though a big red button might seem like a nice thing to push a lot for a 6-year old
18:35 < lfaraone> hhardy: I was kidding.
18:36 < lfaraone> hhardy: but again, we need some sort of s-g -staffed queue for those bugs, cause most of it will be crap.
18:36 <@hhardy> yea
18:37 < cjb> yep, probably don't want them to go into Trac directly
18:37 < cjb> but I'm intensely curious what they'll write about
18:37 < cjb> even if it's just "my XO is so slow I hate it", I'd like to keep count of how many of those we get
18:37 < cjb> etc
18:38 < dogi> ::)
18:38 <@hhardy> we might get a lot, if their XO wasnt too slow :)
18:38 < adric> It might be good to see some of that data, even if sifting and keeping it would be a chore
18:38 <@hhardy> you can get the flavor of it from looking at the help queue
18:39 < adric> Uh huh. *grimace*
18:39 < lfaraone> cjb: The thing is that Ubuntu users are just another "deployment", albiet admittedly not a priority one. Many teachers want to use sugar in US schools, with standard desktops.
18:39 < adric> Why no yuuuTuuub workin'?
18:40 <@hhardy> all the really funny ones cant be repeated here lol
18:40 < adric> Yeah .. there are some "gems"
18:40 < adric> Okay, I'm drifting out, mail/call if you need me, folks
18:41 <@hhardy> "I think you should get rid of the ears because it makes it look like the devil"
18:41 < cjb> lfaraone: and again, I think you decided on a solution and are now searching for a problem that it solves.  Do things the other way around.
18:42 <@hhardy> the devil has green plastic ears? who knew!
18:42 < cjb> (the ubuntu "deployment" stuff might be more interesting for sugar labs than OLPC, so you should mention it to them)
18:42 < dogi> feedback with the build in webcam?
18:42 < cjb> heh
18:42 -!- Ian_Daniher [~it@69.61.230.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:43 <@hhardy> ok y'all heading home, cheeers...
18:43 < lfaraone> hhardy: where did you.
18:43 < dogi> ciao
18:43 < lfaraone> hhardy: see the trac discussion take place?
18:44 <@hhardy> it was a series of messages starting with simon
18:44 <@hhardy> on tech-team mailing list so I don't want to forward
18:44 <@hhardy> the 4 who made proposal could tell you tho the ones I named
18:45 <@hhardy> [Techteam] How to coordinate the OLPC QA team with the Sugarlabs QA team
18:45 <@hhardy> was the title
18:45 <@hhardy> Mel, Simon, Marco, Gary
18:46 < lfaraone> hhardy: I take it techteam is a NDA'd list?
18:46 < cjb> lfaraone: stronger than that; it's an OLPC-internal list.
18:46 <@hhardy> let me ask kim, sec
18:47 < lfaraone> hhardy: I take it they are all @laptop.org ?
18:47 <@hhardy> better if simon sends you his own message I think
18:47 <@hhardy> yes
18:47 < lfaraone> (the emails)
18:47 <@hhardy> it was a proposal coming from sugar-dev (bugsquad) meeting
18:48 <@hhardy> so better if you get the info from the sugar side if you can
18:49 < lfaraone> hhardy: I'll just mail them.
18:49 <@hhardy> cool
18:49 < lfaraone> (mel, marco, gary, simon)
18:52 < lfaraone> hhardy: gary@laptop is invalid
18:57 <@hhardy> hmmm I dont have it
18:58 <@hhardy> presumably he has a sugarlabs acct?
18:58 < lfaraone> not important, I guess.
18:59 <@hhardy> gary at garycmartin.com
18:59 <@hhardy> from google of a sugarlabs posting
19:00 <@hhardy> night all