Talk:OLPC India

NIce to have these laptops with indian kids

Digital Literacy in India

It is a delight to see this initiative. While India is a superb software production center, digital literacy is concentrated mainly on the urban centers. Much of the rural places, where two-thirds of the population resides is almost zero in this area. We have been trying to create a rural digital initiative that will be focused on 1 million villages in India within a decade, in the context of an integrated school initiative. Hardware such as this can make this a reality!

Charles Dhanaraj Gyan Jyoti Vilas (Enlightenment from Learning) An initiative in the making (Currently I am an associate professor of management at Kelley Business School, Indiana University)

Girish R V

Localization in india is going to a big problem. Most prominent language is hindi, but there are a lot of states here which have other native languages( Tamil, Malayalam, oriya, telungu, Marathi, .. to name a few).

The extent to which English is used in India

English is one of the official languages of India, could you possibly provide some information as to what extent English is used in India please?

India has MORE language diversity than Europe. Even though English is used as the language of the educated classes to facilitate communication amongst different regions, the vast majority of India's one billion people do not know English at all or else they vaguely remember a bit from their high-school lessons.

Therefore, English is an essential component of the OLPC India project in order to give children the possibility of higher education. On the other hand, English is not sufficient because the majority of children will be unable to do anything with it until after several years of education.

In India, there are states with high and low literacy stages. The states like Kerala and goa are high in literacy rates and the peoples can speak and learn in english. Tamil Nadu and Bihar are the examples of states with low literacy rates.

I know little about India. The postage stamps have text in Hindi and English. People from India in situations such as television interviews seem to speak English. I have had a perception, which I am now begining to think was quite wrong, that English is spoken throughout India by everybody, as the common language of the country. In what language are school subjects such as physics and history taught please?

It's hard to get good statistics on this. For a 2003 article which cites data from 1994, see http://www.languageinindia.com/may2003/annika.html#chapter5 where it states that at that time around 4% of the people of India used English as their first language. I'd expect that if this percentage was correct then, it's probably fairly similar today. A much larger percentage of the people of India use English as a second language, of course. The crucial thing to remember about India is that it has no majority language. Only about 30% of the population speaks Hindi as a first language, and in many Indian states there is little desire to learn Hindi. In the 1950 Constitution, it was planned to phase out the use of English, but that has ceased to seem likely. To quote the CIA World factbook, from http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/in.html "English enjoys associate status but is the most important language for national, political, and commercial communication; Hindi is the national language and primary tongue of 30% of the people; there are 14 other official languages: Bengali, Telugu, Marathi, Tamil, Urdu, Gujarati, Malayalam, Kannada, Oriya, Punjabi, Assamese, Kashmiri, Sindhi, and Sanskrit; Hindustani is a popular variant of Hindi/Urdu spoken widely throughout northern India but is not an official language."

There are 20 official languages in the EU. According to Wikipedia there are 21 official languages in India, 4 more important ones, and 13 others with over 5 million speakers.

I'm an American who's never been to India, but my impression is that virtually any person in India who has graduated from secondary school will have some knowledge of English, and nearly all college graduates will know it quite well, but that in the villages of India, children will speak the local language. --Chris Mullin christmullinster@gmail.com

My views on OLPC project

Hi OLPC project members, I wanted to express my feedback on the OLPC project. Here are my observations:

a) What is your view on the Laptop ?

Ans.)The idea of a $100 laptop is great. The laptop might have the potential to complete the objective of 'One Laptop Per Child.' I hope it will be a success. But, have a look at this : http://shopping.rediff.com/shop/productdisplay.jsp?prrfnbr=10049568&source=browse&frompg=_shopping_home_leftnavi A 'laptop' for children costing only $7.

That is the price for remaindered or unsold stock. The Manufacturers retail price for these toys in India is 950 rupees which is about $20.70, almost 3 times the price that you quote.

>> Sir, I think that the gentlemen selling the 'laptop' for $7 might still be making profit, after sales tax, duties, and hosting charges. If this is the case, we can only guess the manufacturing cost of the laptop (possibly Made in China).

Though it lacks the interconnectivity features,

This is a big problem for an educational device that is to be used in a school. No connectivity means no new books, no information sharing.

... does not run linux, no wifi, fixed content, perhaps a very short life span,

The lifespan is also key. For only 5 times the cost the OLPC will deliver a unit that will last more than 5 times longer than this toy and which has innovative interconnectivity options like the extended-range low-power wifi with its own CPU, and the audio-input that can be used for scientific sensors.

...but still, for 7$ we have a laptop with static course content, a flat screen, keyboard and portability. The OLPC looks great in all respect, but still it gets beaten on price.

This is the fallacy of the used car salesman and the discount warehouse. In fact the OLPC wins on price. The OLPC can be delivered in very large quantities and the units are very durable because of an innovative design that removes the most common points of failure in traditional laptops. The OLPC's cost per year of use is the key measure. No toy manufacturer can do better.

It might be hard to convince states to invest in such projects, because of low finances of the developing countries, when you have a competitor with much cheaper price. I am not being negative, just critical. Perhaps, it might help the OLPC project to get one of those, and to find out how do these people make the things so cheap. Secondly, I think that this laptop will promote computer literacy and open-source vision in the countries.

b) What type of features do you suggest should be added considering the Indian community as a larger picture ?

Ans.) 1)I think the major feature should be translator software. The need and effort in preparing course material in all the languages in the world is surely infeasible, takes time, and might make the material redundant, unless there is a dedicated group of volunteer or employees working behind the project. The translator might be integrated in the core, allowing even people speaking different communicate via laptop when they meet each other. It could be possible to ship the laptop with region specific translator. If two people of different regions, not having translator for each other's language, the translator must automatically broadcast in English, which other person's software can convert it his own language.

There is no such thing as translator software. I personally speak 6 languages. Most recently I learned Russian over a period of 3 years. I frequently used machine translators to help me read Russian websites but they often produced bad translations. I would have stopped using them but I noticed that the real value was that if I read a Russian paragraph, then the English machine translation, and then the Russian paragraph a second time, I was able to understand almost all of the paragraph. The English translation was usually incomprehensible but it did somehow help me improve my Russian reading ability. However, this is a highly technical detail which would be lost on most teachers. The end result is that giving kids a machine translator would just confuse and frustrate them.

>> Frankly Sir, I agree with you that machine translation is horrible. But sir, what I thought was that many of the developing countries (includin India) already has a translation software. Though the reliance on these software will not be good, but in early stages of learning the english language, it might be good.

2) I have seen the sugar interface. If the laptop is targeting small children too, it should be more attractive, with vibrant colours, bigger text, animations etc. These fancy features can be disabled when a child grows.

And if Sugar is skinnable then the kids themselves can determine how they like their interface. There is no need to force them into blinky flashing colors that do not further their education.

c) What type of software do you suggest can help in establishing the vision wrt India?

Ans.) 1)Is it possible to ship OLPC with flash player. If yes, it would be great. It would allow courseware developers to post interactive courseware for children. Obviously, flash is not an open source software, but player would definitely help to play the existing educational content available on the internet.

The OLPC ships with SVG support. SVG can do much of what Flash does. In addition the OLPC supports Python and Javascript, both of which can be used to add interactive features. There is no need to add commercial software that duplicates the function of the included open-source software.

>> Sorry Sir, I overlooked the flash to SWG converter. It is equally good. Perhaps such a software integerated with the viewer will help.

Perhaps it might be possible to develop an interactive animation software for Linux, so that anyone can create content for the OLPC. The education with animation will make the things more interesting and easier, since these require less memory than video files.

That is a good idea. Volunteers, please step forward.

2)I think that the text-to-speech will also help the project very greatly. As it has been discussed many times in the wiki, that there is a shortage of electricity in the developing countries. I think it would greatly strain the eyes of the children if they try to read under low light conditions, like in the night.

The OLPC generates its own light for reading. It can also be fitted with a USB-powered reading lamp.

So it would help if they can just hear the content, rather than viewing it. It might also save some power, though with the new screen design, I am not sure of it. It would also help the parents, who might be illiterate, to gain some knowledge. So, it can be a family learning exercise. And of course, text will occupy less disk space than sound clips. But care should be taken to make the software speak in the local accent (and perhaps, coupled with translator, might speak an English book in the regional language). Secondly, it should be possible to fast forward, rewind, and pause the speech, the flexibility that is there in media players, perhaps with the help of some special external buttons. 3) Using text to speech, it might be possible for laptop to collect the news, announcements, warnings etc. when it is in school, connected to net. These can be converted to speech and broadcasted when at home. Perhaps, that way, parents themselves will encourage the children to open their laptop so that they can hear the news.

On the other hand, it might be more efficient to set up radio stations to broadcast news and distribute wind-up radios. In fact, there are few areas of the world where there is no national radio news available.

4) Since the laptop might come with Firefox, I have seen software at website www.ajaxlaunch.com which can run directly off the browser, and require no installation. Since the disk-space is so limited, why not run additional software that way?

Ajax is just a fancy word for Javascript applications which run over the Internet connection. Since the OLPC will not have Internet and will not be always connected, it makes more sense to just write plain Javascript applications that function locally. However, many Ajax libraries can be used (sometimes with modifications) to build such Javascript applications.

>> Sir, would it be possible to use another OLPC system (for example, teacher's) to act as a server for ajax applications?

d) What type of content should be developed that can help Indian students ?

Ans.)I think that educational content is plentifully available in India. Many companies are working in this regard. They have full set of courseware developed for students. Perhaps, Govt. can make an agreement with them for the courseware. At micro-level, I think that the teacher himself can make the best courseware. Give them a really easy-to-use software, that allows them to make animation, slides and other stuff, to be distributed in the classroom. It should be possible to make software that can be used to make courseware, and can be easier to operate than word, powerpoint, flash and other professional software, because these software has options that only a professional uses, and are not required by other people. Just that, the software should have an easy learning curve.

Abiword is being ported to the OLPC. Perhaps this could be the core of such a system? In addition, there are Python-based Wikis like Wikidpad that can run on the OLPC.

Secondly, the Japanese comic might not be as attractive to Indian students than the Indian stories. The content should be localized, and perhaps developed locally. What about the tutorials to use the laptop itself? I think that, apart form education-centric content, there should be content that enhance the skills of children (or even their parents). Courseware related to IT education, science, learning instruments, vocational and hobby-oriented programs, should be encouraged.

e) Any hardware specification that you wish should be added ?

Ans.)I was thinking of a system in which the operating system, factory configuration, and preloaded software could be store on one, read-only hard drive (flash memory, in your case), acting just like bios with an operating system in it; and user configuration, documents, even OS update in other drive (read-write). To access the read-only memory, one might have to take out the card and insert into a separate card reader. There should be a reset button outside, pressing which we might be able to clean the user accessible drive, and revert the laptop to original configuration, just like palm handheld, or digital diaries. This might be useful, because in remote areas, the repairman might not be available, and if someone accidentally changed an important configuration, got attacked by a virus, or received a faulty OS update, or the PC crashes by a bug, he can press the reset button to erase the flash, so that the laptop gets reverted to the factory-made configuration. I think this can solve major technical support problems.

Have you read the Hardware specification for the OLPC? It sounds like you are reinventing the wheel.

>> Sir, I read the Hardware specification page again. I guess I missed the details about the LinuxBIOS earlier. Though I am yet to find a screenshot of the BIOS, the idea which I suggested was, I believe, a bit different from it. I suggested running the *Full OS* with GUI, essential software which you would like to include, hardware support etc. from a read-only drive. Only the user data, like changes in the desktop environment, documents, new softwares etc. can be kept on separate read-writable drive. And as you are using flash memory, wouldn't it be possible to format the user-accessible drive by pressing an external button without even booting up the laptop (considering that the laptop, for some reason, is not booting up). It would be like how we restore the image from a previous backup, only that the backup would be factory configuration of the laptop, and I believe that it would remove the need for technitians to a great extent. I have seen the knoppix run off the live CD. It is something like that. The user can change the configuration, which can be saved in his hard drive, and removed if you want totally fresh environment. I am extremely sorry if I misunderstood the existing features of the laptop, but I think that once you format the flash, you will have to reinstall the linux. If I am right, the above idea will solve your problem.

f) What do you suggest for solving the development issues?

Ans.)The first thing that comes to my mind is that-Why python? There might be more developers of C++ in the world. It is a standard language and is taught all over the world in schools and colleges. Is it not possible to include gcc compiler? That way, the already existing programs could be utilized without much modifications. Anyway, python might be having some advantages that I am overlooking, perhaps ability to make GUI based programs?

Or perhaps the ability to make programs quicker and the ability to use less storage for program code, especially when only .pyc files are in the package.

g)Server Side Solutions

Ans.)I think that the idea of the software running off the browser, like in www.ajaxlaunch.com is a feasible server-side solution. Perhaps the applications can run off the teacher's (more capable) notebook, since the internet connectivity might not be continuous in remote areas. The applications work perfectly on 64 MB ram, so I think that these might run quite well in 128 MB ram of OLPC.

h) What ideas in each category i.e.

   a) Software
   b) Hardware
   c) Education
   d) Others

can help the vision of the project?

Ans.)Please refer to the earlier entries.

i) While ultimately, the work on curricula will be done by the ministries of education , there are several efforts underway to explore some of the education potential from this project. Could you hint someway to scale up the education potential from this project?

Ans.)The best thing that this laptop will do is decrease the dependence of people on closed source software, and groom up children in open-source environment from early childhood. This will provide a shot in the arm for open-source movement, and will develop man-power for it. The laptop could itself be an excellent source of information and practice for students appearing for exams for higher studies, like SAT, IITJEE, CEE etc. In villages, it is seen that the awareness and resources for students about higher studies is very limited, though the same is not true about the quality of brains. This program could increase the use manifold, where some volunteer teachers (perhaps professor from universities) can give them instructions, solve their queries, and give them exercises.

j) What are the different types of Open Source Software used in India apart from

   * GNU/Linux system with Linux Kernel with JFFS
   * Mozilla Firefox
   * Abiword and Gnumeric
   * Many GNOME libraries (although not the entire gnome project) including:
         o GTK+
         o Pango
   * Evince?

Ans.) I use SCILAB, AVRGCC/WINAVR, XINE, CYGWIN and GIMP, and some other tools bundled with Knoppix Live CD distribution.

I hope that my feedback might help your mission. I wish you success in your endeavors.

Regards,

Kartik Joshi

India