Journal, reloaded/IRC transcript 2008-10-15
Raw dump of IRC transcript logs of cscott's talk. Please ask for clarification if something is confusing - scott talks fast and I couldn't type everything, and typos are all over this. Mchua 18:30, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
Oct 15 12:08:52 <mchua|xo> Hey guys - cscott is about to start his journal talk and I'll be transcribing as best I can in here Oct 15 12:09:14 <mchua|xo> Also feel free to holler if you're not in the room but want to ask questions (pls flag with RELAY: before your question) and I and others will try to pass it on Oct 15 12:09:37 <tomeu> ooh, awesome Oct 15 12:09:42 <tomeu> thanks mchua|! Oct 15 12:09:54 <mchua|xo> np :) repaying the favor for the many times it's been given to me Oct 15 12:10:51 <mchua|xo> recording start
(From here on all unattributed lines are mchua transcribing.)
Ok So I'm cscott and i work at olp i;m goignto give a talk about new ideas for journal i'll give the requisite discliaimer that a most of the good ideas aren't mine borrowe great ideas from as we go and but if i forget just assume thtait's not my idea the second one is that when we get thorugh the actual gui stuff none of this has gone through our designers yet (yay capslock) so even's going to hate that some buttons are square and some buttons are run and... he'll give me a good talking to late and w'ell fix that one last, i'm deoig this on my laptop so when we get to looking at files and stuff we'll going to see the things that i work w whcih are nto teh thigns that kdis work with so most of the interesting files are going to be lik source code and stuff bc that's what i've been working on reclently i'm an old school unix hacker discliamer: for youg nkids their files aren't really going to look like my fiels so if i do somethign that works well for me tand is scaleable and growable and if i let kids grow up to be bearded unix hackers existing journal dseign for 2 reasons - for peope watching online maybe never seen jouranl before also design not quite implemetned yet sowe 'll start with what it should look like SLIDE so we've got action view BACKSLIDE any questions should direct to eben action view the thigns iv'e done itno diary form unlike a traiditonal file manager, some of these things odn't actually have files assoc with them almost all of them do, and it took a lot for eben to convince me that someone might not i added some objects, idid some other stuff but other things like i copied a file to my usb key file may not be around, usb key may nto be around but it'sl there i went and played with X, shows up n my jouranl too expand, it shows the actual things that i've been workginw tih so that's the cgtion view then there's the object view whichi s a mroe rtada fm view this are the files you av seen more or less you can debate whether they're fiels or instances or what chronological order, thigns i did most recently start things that reimportant and i have some checkboxes that can do obth operations at once there's a search bar i can search for anything, anyone, at any time the right click entry will show more detailed preview so in may ways it would be he actual image i dcan vie details view whichi s what that button does (request to show previous slide) so the title, the application ia made it in, resume, resume with some other activity, copy to, send to, view details, erase (reading the text on the slide of the right click popup) i'm not... so, I like most of this I'm not compeltely in love with it so somef othse operations here can be doen wtih these heckboxes and if you can sort of I'm not sure if I"m confinveced i want to rclick and scroll down to erase for gmail you have to click on all these things and click erase on top then you actually get to some real examples - moving the preview icon here is really hard image files aren'et named, you get underscoe 546.jpeg or something this is where wel'll we'll come back to this later on but i'd like to see some place for a smaller preview icon, the activity icon is important there, some peopel have tried to make hyrpcids they'll do this iwh ta watermark over the real image but we'll come back to that its' a godo qeustions for design aftfer me he's got a tool animation if I drag this I can go back in time and see how far back ni time I'm going that's not implemented yet not for me actually what I really like sthumbnail view here this is aone page inso the i've gotall these images and i cant'really tell what they are without mousing over them these are thumbnail views it would be nice if this wasn't just ani con but actually some text from things it's very important that if you type a search that matches nothing that you have something come up that says no matching entries found or they think they've broken the machine this is the details screen which i'm not messing with at all i love it you can talk about it w eben you have preview here, text here, text extensions all the metadata you could possibly be itnerested in something here that in ever realized before i went lokoing for it this dropdown box here which you can - the idea is i modified it 2 mins ago if ai clicked i'd alo see the things i did an hour ago, a long time ago that's also parr of the big ball of wax that i'm not going to so if we can get back gto here... so! lets' just say the big problem with this is - this is how it should look it's woudl beonwderful if it actually looked at this most kids tondt' really naem their documents well curernt system has a bug bc if we haten' done version yet, every time is ave somethign i get one more entry in ehre so tehre's a whoel bunch of things that say write activity write activity record activity blah blahb over again there's no ingo not really godo aidea not really contextual info to figure out wha'ts actually here and um the avialiby to orfanige my file, very liiltea bility so there is ome tags, there is some search function on the tags, but it's not really exposed in thes ay tthat makes mpeopel comfy w this is my schoolwork and ic an search fo rit peopel who have used computjers for a logn tiem is they do hierarchical here is one not to do this is one mlinux like file manager "the time traveling file manager" from kde has a nicwe features here, the tile bar that I can drag back and forth... so ehre's also we'll add some anecdotal stories... from actual user expereinces, it's not just 6 years olds who finds this we stil ahve learned files and fodlers so we propose this as the soln to everything inexperienced users, where inexperienced means "not unix hacker" are havignt eh same kinds of files and folders problems that kids do (someone) has rolled out a server across the entire city's infrasstructure (talking about some deployment) the thing they did that make a huge amt of diff in the # of frustrared queries there's a tiny little button in the... "document as email" button Oct 15 12:24:16 * is4 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) and i can look at this document i'm looking at right now and document it but if you actually think of all thes steps required to document somethgn as email and send it to a friend in most cases i can't click just the save button i have to do file, save as, then there's the magical... when i go to save, they'l gvie me some random place on my filesystem this si in openoffice, if i open any other application in my system i'll se a different looking dialog and now i save it, and now it's gone somewhere, i odn't know wehre so now i hvae to close this program, I have to got... maybe applications.. maybe my email is somewhere here i have eto find it ahve to open it and then i'll have to find antoher little button that says "attach to document" and then I have to go through some other filepath... it looks like this - which is looking completely different, this one shows dotfiles too, and now I have to find... it turns out that this one was in projects/olpc/git/joruanl2/foo b/c that's where the last thing I was working on was so now I have to find this.. now HI have to attach it... adn then am I home free? maybe. I hope so. so tisn' tnot just small kids that have probels with this files and folders are not really a very good solution this save everythign to the desktop and that works for a while and then I get somethign like this (BIG MESSY DUMP) Oct 15 12:27:05 <cjb> :) and ti's hard for me to figure out what my files and folders are Oct 15 12:27:26 <aa> lol Oct 15 12:27:26 <cjb> it would be really nice to have a way to find the things I've been working with recently that doesn't involve all this crap Oct 15 12:27:35 <cjb> and this is what GNOME's Journal folks are working on they came up with this 'recently used' thing in gnome now that... Oct 15 12:27:43 * cjl wonders if they are showing a picture of my desktop (question from egarrison that I miss) cjl: it looks a lot like mine too ;) Oct 15 12:28:06 <cjb> <erik> having recently used should solve this Oct 15 12:28:17 <cjb> <scott> there's a separate recently-used list for each application! <3 cjb ther's aost his shortcuts folder here and interesting to see largo talk in all the desktop hes' every looke at - this is always balnekd blank nobody ever uses it Oct 15 12:28:57 <cjb> (this is the shortcuts bar in the gtkfilechooser) so now we're rtaling about how you organize stuff Oct 15 12:29:09 <cjb> okay, here's a story and the kids all like tags these days everythign goes in exactly one place which is kind of limiting with tags i can put thigns im ultple places this is in my mstone folder, in my other folder but i'm old, i' used hirarchially structuer paths everywhere iv'e got all these dirs on mys ys already but i oudln't come up with a good reason why this was necessary it's like arandom selection of tags - but they had structure so i took all the files of my laptop which has 10+ years of files Oct 15 12:30:21 <cjb> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Experiments_with_unordered_paths i'm going to show them all the places where you can't jsust throw the path componetns without order Oct 15 12:30:27 <cjb> (has the details of this experiments) Oct 15 12:30:32 <cjb> (if I got the URL right) that bar/foo is different from foo/bar so I wrote the script and i ran it on all my files in my /home dir and it turned out exactly zero cases where the ordering of tags made a difference and my midn exploed at that point iwas like o crap i've got loads of crap there iv'e got files unpacked fiels and thingsk the gtk source tree, ltos of things from lots of other project so i had to rethink my world turns out there were not exactly 0 instances but none of them were compelling Oct 15 12:31:33 <cjb> sphinx project from CMU one of them was a speech rec project that... sphinx has because it's java, it was sphingx/test/foo Oct 15 12:31:57 <cjb> sphinx has sphinx/test/foo, output in test/sphinx/foo Oct 15 12:32:25 <cjb> duplicate tags are important places like debian packages so it turns out that if you allow dup tags that gets you 90% of the exampels go foo foo is a different tag than just foo by itself but you almost never need tfo use ordered paths Oct 15 12:33:05 <cjb> mchua|xo: your nick had me worried, I thought you were typing (10x faster than me) on an XO keyboard :) so this wasn't erally an envelope sketch because it's too long for an envelope, but SLIDE cjb: I am cultivating my magica powers to do so next :) so here's an idea of how you could add a little bit of better support for tags and structures in the journal so here's my files this is extremely ugly but... in my joural tagginga nd markesr for the day to separate them works a lot better than having a bar that looks for the exact time it was done so I pust it in columns (today, saturday...) so i'm e basically listing all the directoreis that stuff is in astags which is completely ignored except if you really care but other than that it looks gmail like i have my fiel name, my file type and a list of tag suggestions over here but thew ay i got this is a list of all the tags that i've made it's like folders this makes it a little more discoverable (to have them on the sidebar to left) but so this middle section is suggestions the most recently used stuff or the what things have you done recnetly so we'll talk about that more later and that's brightly stole some epipharnies when you bookmark stuff an ephiphny it t populates something with the most recent tags epiphany == browser all the peopel with fiels in your brains these are special tags with (something) written in so if you want tomake hierarchial structures you can if you have a sbudirectory called activities (oh! something == slashes) so if I wanted to see the Activitys/ I could click this tags and i could see allt the things that were tagged with the activityes tag that is to say they're from that folder i've taken evens sort of long swearch bar and exhanged most of that spac for the search so the idea is now who is file tags that i wrote with chirss or whatever and what is files i wrote in pippy Oct 15 12:37:38 <cjb> chirss?!? ;-) where is really contorversioa so here's the default place whichi s thigns that were in my jouranl but i can use the - look in my entire filesystem removable devices Oct 15 12:38:15 <cjb> can move from journal, to filesystem, to removable devices (usb, sd..) (for those following along, this makes way more sense with the screenshot) Oct 15 12:38:40 <cjb> common deployment question: "put this file in this directory" Oct 15 12:38:44 <cjb> old journal can't do that the old journal had no way to do things like "put this in the boot dir of the usb stick" so now I give it the tag "boot/" and it's in tehre and if i'm given a usb stick with all sorts o fmusic in the something/ dir it all comes up witht hat (missed wad's q) I 'd liek tot hink i could drag these tasg into these projects usually i'd just ad mroe tags... but if I wanted to put ti to a specific place here... ordered tags don't matter at all in efal life Oct 15 12:39:52 <cjb> <wad> how do I add a subdirectory? but i spepect that there'll be rarely many cases Oct 15 12:40:05 <cjb> <scott> use magic ordered tags with / on the end so I culd put the right place int the front of this text so i fi made a boot/ tag it also makes a boot directory and if I don't put anythinge sle it'll put that dir in the top plevel so maybe it does the wrnog things yand you could just drag and drop them (to reorder i assume) so here's when, which is the= it displays a calendar what I really want is the widget that eben will desgin for me it will look at the set of days we want the same zoomign interface that we have elsewhere in the system did id do it yesterday/ last month/ last year Oct 15 12:41:09 <cjb> gtkcalendarwidget doesn't let you do date region searches, just pick one day Oct 15 12:41:18 <cjb> no way to select entire month Oct 15 12:41:18 <aa> * the smell of molten fingers fills the room * Oct 15 12:41:23 <cjb> :) (mm, toasty) but hwer are all the thigns that if you are familair with gmail i can.. these icons are more like placeholders but ican copy them to some device, i can move them to some device I can delete them all AAH! the first thign that iw watn is "find other things like these" something that helsp you find other thigns like these and i think this is add tag and remove tag these do thes ame kind of thing they do with gmail whichis the things i selected has tags already okay, so that's the modkup. so I"ll take questison and then we'll do really cool stuff (channel? questions?) aiee, cjb I can't lipread henry... help? scott: the tags are really just tags Oct 15 12:43:44 <cjb> <henry> what happens if I remove a tag-slash? so I've got - you'll se these in the next demo all the thigns on the other side jsut becomes regular tags Oct 15 12:43:59 <cjb> <scott> the other slash tags become unordered tags, maybe? the other tags aren't speciali slash tags any more and if I wanted to recreate the di structure I could drag those back and have them hook on to the end of my tag string if I delete the schoolwork tag, turtles is just a tag, the files get mored into the Jouranl/ directory] s/mored/moved Oct 15 12:45:03 <cjl> RELAY would tags move with files from XO to XO? so my first idea for that... i started thinking - waht is this really like to use? Oct 15 12:45:24 <tomeu> RELAY so slash tags are meant just to interface with the file system? which is something that is tag structured, where the order of the dir componetns don' tmater? so all these file are in /home/olpc/blah/blah/blah Oct 15 12:45:52 <cjb> tomeu: yes. cjl: will relay Oct 15 12:46:07 <cjb> (that's from me, not Scott) Oct 15 12:46:24 * isforinsects (n=isforins@unaffiliated/isforinsects) has joined #olpc-meeting it rusns out that i was laboring under the weight of the hierarchical files sytem asll the time, in fact it was makng me do more work it's basically like - well, lets' start playign around with these ideas in a regular style so I made a tag cd program whenI changed dirs - i changed paths - it would suggest that in the future you can get here mroe easily by usign thse 2 words and it would just jump me there so if wiat tend to get to ol/cpsugar/toolkit/solar/sugar/blah i could just type two of them and it would drop me in it would tll me sugar space and it woudl tell me the thigns tagged wtih sugar that woudl be useful "sugar g" is probably all that's needed to get to that directory i think it's an itneresting way to do the tagged files ystem w/o using the joural stuff what if we didn't need a fancy cd program Oct 15 12:48:18 <tomeu> I guess the slides aren't on the net yet, right? but had a fielsystem that made dirs for allt he palces you can go so if I'm in... I wuld see all the tags in that system tomeu: probaly not, he was modifying them right before we started :) so I can make an mstone directory and then michael could see that stuff Oct 15 12:49:00 <tomeu> ok, I may have more questions afterwards ;) it has some interesting security properties tomeu: we'll probalby ahve a better transcript afterwards too and it tursn otu that I think that te unix security model generally works liek this Oct 15 12:49:23 <tomeu> oh, no video recording? because most system services don't recursively go through these direcroeis tomeu: video, audio, and slideshare + transcript (separate high-qual audio) so if i"m in a directy and I didn't want o modify inkscape or ff or wahtever i could moutnt his tag view of the dir but the directoires are just tags Oct 15 12:50:09 <tomeu> awesome! so i can tag this w video and i am in this toher program now it'll show as tagged w video cavallo: kids don't have preconceptions Oct 15 12:50:58 <cjb> cavallo: there are legitimate ideas in computing that we want to take root Oct 15 12:51:04 <cjb> perhaps 'naming a file' or something like that (and... I'm... lost with david's question - thanks cjb) scott: global interface - if I don't... a kid starting out isn't actually goint ohave any tags here except maybe activities Oct 15 12:51:40 <cjb> cavallo: when in this model are they making tags? Oct 15 12:51:46 <cjb> when in their activity? cavallo: when will they say "when do I make a tag?" Oct 15 12:51:52 <cjb> scott: you should talk to Eben scott: i have a handwavy mental model - i think of gmail's subject lien you can make a msg w/o a subject line in gmail, but they make it difficult it 'll never force them to make a godo name but we could gently suggest that they might do it eben: (says something I can't hear) Oct 15 12:53:03 <cjb> naming is kinda orthogonal scott: for things on my hdd - like images, i never name them, they're img_5235.jpg i can ignroe that... it's going to be optional Oct 15 12:53:23 <cjb> <eben> we might suggest naming when kids click stop i think ti's kind of an orthogonal issue i thinkw e can do better in ehcouraging people to give names Oct 15 12:53:34 <cjb> on an activity that hasn't been named yet, maybe give a suggestion (cjl, haven't forgotten you - each question is taking a long time to answer :) scott: tags and structure - this is a key idea in computing, but i'm not convicne the hierarchy is i'll make a blanet statement - "they key problem I'm rying to solve is interoperation with the outside world." there are lots of ther machiens around someone will give you a usb key with files on it and you'll use an aplicatiotn that hasn't been sugarized and weird thigns happen so what i'm trying to do is can we provide a better means to interoperate with that when it happens i think a common problem is that they can't find their files cavallo: that's right - they can't find their files, not that they can't interoperate with... it's an all xo environment in pilots - i think that is th issue - that's not going to generalize, to say use an usb key so in this world interoperability across platforms might be an issue but not there scott: but interop for devs is important - i can't dogfood because of it i believe this is soething that would be in the jouranl, we could use it to grow our userbase eben: i think we can take the jouranl and slolwoion troduce the notion of tags i fyo u wan introcue the notion of tags... if you think of a title with all the wrods in the title you'rea lready thinking about the tags so if the title... and somethign suggested tags, all of a sudden you ahve this easy way fo clicking on things cavallo: i took these pictures - and therea re mulitple ways of thinking about it - but if you have kids will they be able to do stuff with the stuf ftha'ts on the machine nameing it ,and forcing it, and making it diffiuclt ot tona meit adding more to the tags it at thes ame time thorugh the joruanl gets you something but that'ss thte use case of the kids (multiple people talking at once) mstone: i think you're talking about a way for people to think in many simultaneous ways dfa: i thin people are comig from this from a wide variety of places to cularify what's going on here the serach capability is alreayd implemented has been for months where if you write a write doc and you got search yo can search for jouranl you can search rfor text you wrote inside write and that document wil pop up if you wrote a memo and called it memo, if you remembered it, that's fine tags are also the idea of tags is to be able to add searchable properties to objects that are not inside the objct what scott is proposing is a further refirnement of this gettys: imagine an entirely search-based interface i end up stop having to file Oct 15 13:01:23 * dsaxena_away is now known as dsaxena filing was an alien concept because you were so confident at beinga ble to find everything allthe time my observation was taht gags was the unusual thing that - when you had a todo list on every topic and you had to ask something where it was and it was still going to be obvious from the content (talking about use of gmail) Oct 15 13:02:05 <cjb> questions from cjb: joe: whos' gong to teach kdis how to use it? (I think that's what he's asking) scott: you don't have to Oct 15 13:02:20 <cjb> * everyone's talking about search for text, but not everything in the datastore is a text file Oct 15 13:02:22 * marcopg (n=marco@host163-6-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #olpc-meeting cjb+1 (scott pulling up windows left and right on his machine!) Oct 15 13:03:07 <cjb> * Scott did a good job of convincing us that ordered tags aren't necessary, so I'm similarly unconvinced that they should be in the UI this is actually my journal - (on my computer) Oct 15 13:03:17 <cjb> (maybe a "filesystem activity" for that) Oct 15 13:03:52 <cjb> (Scott demoing new journal) Oct 15 13:05:42 * mchua|xo has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") Oct 15 13:06:25 <cjl> ack, we lost mchua aka our trapscriptionbot! Oct 15 13:06:51 <tomeu> oh, I thought everybody got silent there ;) Oct 15 13:07:06 <cjb> using pinot for desktop search Oct 15 13:07:10 * aa has quit (Remote closed the connection) Oct 15 13:07:11 <cjb> pinot's gui is ugly Oct 15 13:07:15 <cjb> but the backend is nice Oct 15 13:07:19 <cjb> uses xapian for search Oct 15 13:07:26 <cjb> alternative OpenSearch backend Oct 15 13:07:31 * aa (n=aa@r190-135-134-180.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) has joined #olpc-meeting Oct 15 13:07:31 <cjl> thanks for picking up the slack cjb Oct 15 13:07:36 * mchua|xo (i=12553180@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a7b646a83963eae9) has joined #olpc-meeting Oct 15 13:07:45 <cjb> xapian probabilistic IR system Oct 15 13:07:53 <cjb> looks at context, relevance, scores (sorry guys, battery died) Oct 15 13:08:00 <cjb> works like Google does Oct 15 13:08:05 <cjb> does magic pagerank stuf wer'e nto using any of these extra features Oct 15 13:08:14 <cjb> .. but we're not actually using any of that Oct 15 13:08:20 <cjb> gmail doesn't use any of that so luckily, xapian also has a v efficient bool probablitstic serach... we're using the "under 4 feet tall" aspect of xapian not the ferrari aspect it does lets us find things sorted by time really fast most things when you say sort by time it will go through all the docs and then sort it so all the fancy ferrariness of xapain is right there (left sidebar) and these terms are relevant to these so it's nice that we have all this stuff under the hood bht altl ehf ancy features that give you better suggestions bht... blah blahb --> gets turned into so it's demo time scott: here are some questions i have (cjl, cjb - should find some way to ask your qeustions too) it should be easy to go back by deleting tags in your search i'm not cnovinced this is the right wya previews? i talked about a little - i'm not satisfied with the way preview sare displayed in gnome, nobody ever fills this (frequent-use) folder with useful stuff so if i have somethign thta gives me suggestions, i mgith want to have something here that lets me pin those in place so this mockup has stars beside tehse places what that does is that this stuff changes periodically but the starred thigns are ipnned down i'm not completely convinced w/ how this looks and feels yet gettys: interesign questions - are these (pins) for tags, or are they actually queries? so the query tags i've implemented are the same who waht where when that the ui shows and so what:pippy means what docs i imade in ppy or i can type something out and it will do a free text search so italked with some guys who were into semantics so if i searched for who:chris it might also suggest good extensins of my serach cavallo: i18n? scott: my plan is to hunt down the people who have done this wt translation systems and nail them to the wall about it scott: if there's a complicated query you want o do you can reify the tags to do it cjb: ben talked about how tags arent very useful, how about images searching for images? scott: i put a picture as a draft... in berlin... that was a month ago... michael: consider 2o f the larger images - facebook - search of images of people, of faces scott: i'm going to put that in 'semantic magic' ben: also the most popular img seraches on the web are tagging cjb: when you compare to gmail, gmail si all text scott: that is true the way gmail works - for ex; when i realized gmail wasn't doing any relevant sorting at all, i thought it was magic but when i actually looked under the covers after 2-3 years I didn't realize this then when i looked at my google searches i also realized my searches were all really really short most people don't work like that if they are searching for X or Y, they just search for X Y gettys: i found i used tags less and less as time went on as i get more and more confident to search and be able to do siple queries, i just looked at name queries and remembering what that naemd queries had been scott: i think the suggestions engine is really powerful too egarrison: legacy apps? scott: they rock (opens sugar-emulator) (opens inkscape from terminal activity) most of the things are not really sugarized (points out buttons and the like) now pay no attention... the magic of LD_PRELOAD, scott's going to do something you should ignore... (reopens inskscape with magic ld_preload thing) hey look, it is the jouranl! (searches through jouranl with tags) this is the second lesson of the largo talk - there is no reason people can't embed the journal into their apps this is a compeltely sep process - jouranl in pythion, inkscape != python so you can search, journal makes the file you pick available to inkscape, and (away you go) you can also search for remote files as well another lesson from largo: people don't want to learn new things, if you can do it in the file browser you should be abel to do it in the open windwo because maybe you realize you need to make a new folder (starts iceweasel) this is a non ported version (brings up open dilaog) and it's the journal again! baically there is a nice abstract gtk interface for a file chooser and we basically sub out most of it for (magic bring up the journal stuff) the q before was how to make this work with existing things Oct 15 13:28:04 <cjb> journal dialog preloader is written in Vala in most cases we just want to show the journal scott: what if it deosnt' work? it's a dbus interface... (simultaneous conversations i'm missing) Oct 15 13:30:12 * julianob (n=julianob@189.63.166.32) has joined #olpc-meeting (discussion outside the scope of this talk) scott: we want to avoid the user having to learn all these different interfaces - use the journal for everything. scott: let's save this discussion for later i need to get through the slides ok. so i love amazon or at least a9 it's a really nice thing - it defines an open search interface and things can interoperate with their results on that so let's send... that's lal I need tos ay about that atm this is the fun part (scott starting things on his computer...) Oct 15 13:33:39 * frances (n=183d3b73@olpc.osuosl.org) has joined #olpc-meeting so here is a search interrface, over htp http in theory this should only be the things i actually want to share with other people but the cool things about this... is that... I can add a search engine to my web browser, and search for things like... "puerto rico" (he's searching on a web interface done through a9) i can now make things that belong to my friends that look just like the journal entries that i have so I right clikc on chris, and i have this thing that says "look at his file" then i'll see the same journal interface if my friend does not have an xo they can subscribe to some sort of feed of my journal instead so if i want to use this as a blog, then i tag it with 'blog' and anyone in the world can subscribe to the (autogenerated) feed of my xo's blog... scott: network principles -t he tricy think is that i need a name so i can sub to an rss feed you cna see [[Network principles]] for more discussion <pre> ----
Oct 15 13:39:23 <mchua|xo> --- end talk --- scott:what did i do wrong? ben: <3 the things you've done now they're in code form which is a huge leap have difficulty w/ notion of tags you're using when I work with tags I either end up with somethign that does not look like tags or does not look like a dir structure scott: the reason I made this mokcup is so I could use it - have experience with it i don't think it'll look like a dir structure i'm hoping that this is a continuing discusson on the use of it one thing is that there is an ambiguity around... (I missed this) ben: the other thing is that I see less value in the syntactic where-colon, what-colon searches talking w eben about what sort of syntax we were actually going to use for that i think that's more easy, valuable scott: i used the google terms bc many people were already using it typing in tags is mroe error prone than being able to select from a list of existing tags Oct 15 13:46:06 * adricnet (n=adric@adsl-145-97-192.asm.bellsouth.net) has joined #olpc-meeting joe: suppose i have 2 machines, one an XO on sugar/linux, one ms windows i take a picture, i put file in stick i put stick in windows machine, save the file i put stick in xo, tag, also save it tiem passes, i forget now in both machines i want to find my file. what do i do? scott: that depends on a lot of the details - where i saved it, how much do i know about windows if i put it on my windows desktop, it'll still be there if tag it with 'photos' it'll still be tagged with photos eben: it won't tag the photos for you, you can tag w anything you want joe: so from the user's perspective, what is that? scott: so we have some magic information here... (searches for type:/jpeg) computer knows about metadata you might have about a jpeg file Oct 15 13:50:37 <aa> mchua|xo: thank so much for the transcript! Oct 15 13:50:45 <aa> cjb: you too aa: np! i'll post logs from my desktop when I get back there in ~10m too many simul. convos going on atm.. i'm going to stop recording