Bryan Berry - Meeting Minutes

Meeting Minutes: Kindling Discoveries Series: An Open Talk with Bryan Berry on Community presented to you by eKindling

11:17:58 AM) BryanWB: hi guys :) (11:18:18 AM) BryanWB: rletada1: where is the meeting agenda again? (11:18:29 AM) rletada1: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Kindling_Discoveries_Series (11:18:57 AM) rletada1: there you go everyone, it just includes some guiding questions.. (11:19:07 AM) BryanWB: can u guys introduce yourselves to me first and briefly why u care about this project? (11:19:16 AM) rletada1: but this is an open conversation, so please feel free to ask questions (11:19:35 AM) BryanWB: christophd of olpc austria should also be joining us briefly (11:20:37 AM) BryanWB: <ahem> could u guys please introduce yourselves to me first and briefly why u care about this project? (11:21:20 AM) edmcnierney left the room (quit: pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). (11:21:20 AM) CanoeBerry left the room (quit: pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). (11:21:20 AM) valhalla left the room (quit: pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). (11:21:20 AM) shenki left the room (quit: pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). (11:21:20 AM) ChanServ left the room (quit: pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). (11:21:40 AM) wenmi: i'm Rowen Remis R. Iral, i'm here support, also I do some coordination and some project management and tech stuff.. I care about this project because I want better future for the children. (11:21:42 AM) KChristophD [n=theeagle@202.63.242.211] entered the room. (11:22:04 AM) KChristophD: BryanWB, jsgotangco: morning all (11:22:14 AM) rletada1: Nice to finally meet you Rowen, Ive heard a lot about you.. (11:22:26 AM) ChanServ [ChanServ@services.] entered the room. (11:22:26 AM) edmcnierney [n=edmcnier@crank.laptop.org] entered the room. (11:22:26 AM) valhalla [n=valhalla@81-174-23-163.dynamic.ngi.it] entered the room. (11:22:26 AM) CanoeBerry [i=CanoeBer@dhcp-49-70.media.mit.edu] entered the room. (11:22:26 AM) shenki [n=joel@202.174.42.5] entered the room. (11:22:26 AM) mode (+o ChanServ ) by irc.freenode.net (11:22:32 AM) BryanWB: wenmi: r u in philippines? (11:24:07 AM) rletada1: well My name is Ryan Letada, I am a member of the eKindling Team, and I believe in the promise of technology in addressing inequities in the Philippines. Once we go through the introduction, i will introduce eKindling and what we are about as well.. (11:24:24 AM) BryanWB: rletada1: great (11:24:25 AM) jsgotangco: i'm jerome gotangco, i mostly do hacks on software. I'm here because I'd like to collaborate more with like-minded folks with regrds to educatino and technology (11:24:59 AM) object404: hi. I'm Carlos Nazareno, volunteer developer for Flash on the XO. (11:25:13 AM) BryanWB: rletada1: can u put the list folks from olpc-ph attending this meeting into the meeting notes? (11:25:24 AM) KChristophD: rletada1, object404: good morning there (11:25:28 AM) BryanWB: object404: wenmi: jsgotangco: r u guys located in the philippines? (11:25:32 AM) mafe: i'm mafe OLPC support-gang member and part of eKindling team... (11:25:34 AM) jsgotangco: yes (11:25:38 AM) rletada1: yes, I can def do that (11:26:19 AM) KChristophD: mafe: hi, good to see you here (11:26:50 AM) mafe: KChristophD: nice to see you here too...:) (11:27:15 AM) BryanWB: anyone else here from olpc-ph? (11:27:30 AM) raybaq: I'm Ray Baquirin, a teacher at APC. We want to participate in OLPC as community service. (11:27:31 AM) lareza: my name is luzzette lareza, i am here as a volunteer, trying how i can fit in, from philippines also (11:27:48 AM) BryanWB: raybaq: what is APC? (11:28:24 AM) BryanWB: mafe: raybaq: lareza object404 pleasure to meet u (11:28:35 AM) raybaq: Asia Pacific College in Makati PH. We're a Center of Excellence in IT Education. (11:28:41 AM) object404: Hi Bryan. Yes we're all located in the Philippines. (me, wenmi, jsgotangco) (11:29:00 AM) BryanWB: object404: great (11:29:05 AM) mafe: BryanWB: same here as well... (11:29:05 AM) lareza: i am an architect, and my colleague is a rotarian, and have asked me to check this site (11:29:14 AM) BryanWB: r u all in manila area? (11:29:23 AM) BryanWB: obviously makati is ;) (11:29:25 AM) jsgotangco: yup manila area (11:29:31 AM) object404: same. (11:29:35 AM) rletada1: Manila - here.. (11:29:49 AM) lareza: i am from bulacan, about 30 kilometers away from manila (11:30:18 AM) mafe: lareza: hey have you inquired from OLPC before ..I remember sending you a reply..:) (11:30:29 AM) BryanWB: cool, rletada1: if we are done w/ intros, can u tell me about ekindling? (11:30:38 AM) rletada1: alright sure! (11:30:39 AM) zakame left the room ("WeeChat 0.2.6.3"). (11:31:02 AM) rletada1: well first and foremost, on behalf of eKindling, much thanks to Bryan for joining us today (11:31:04 AM) lareza: yes mafe i did receive your reply, and i am following up on things still, thanks (11:31:32 AM) BryanWB: rletada1: everyone: tks for having me ;) (11:31:59 AM) mafe: lareza: great...im happy you're here... :) (11:32:13 AM) rletada1: his support is def invaluable and its an indicator of a great global community that is dedicated to this cause (11:32:35 AM) rletada1: In regards to eKindling.. (11:33:16 AM) rletada1: we are a grassroots, community-driven, non-profit organization (soon to be) that is really dedicated to enhancing educational opportunities (11:33:47 AM) rletada1: through open source, technological and learning innovation for the benefit of children across the Philippines (11:34:06 AM) rletada1: we have two main thrust: (11:34:41 AM) rletada1: (1) facilitate project (OLPC) deployment and (2) facilitate content development.. (11:35:21 AM) rletada1: there is also two defining characteristics that must be noted: (11:35:43 AM) rletada1: (1) We focus on the mission (children), not the vehicle. (11:36:34 AM) rletada1: although the XO laptop is main hardware of choice, we are open to other innovative technologies (11:36:49 AM) rletada1: (2) We are Community Driven (11:36:59 AM) BryanWB: does anyone know jon mannion, he is trying to find this channel, i got a message from him on facebook (11:37:13 AM) BryanWB: rletada1: sorry, pls continue (11:37:37 AM) rletada1: we believe that ownership of the project belongs to the community (11:38:01 AM) rletada1: This is why we tapped you Bryan (11:38:22 AM) rletada1: so we kind find out more about OLE Nepal and experience in engaging the community.. (11:39:08 AM) rletada1: :) There is my intro. eKindlign team..please feel free to chime in, and if anyone has any questions regarding the talk, please just chime in as well.. (11:39:40 AM) BryanWB: rletada1: i have trouble w/ the word "community" because it means many different things to different people (11:40:21 AM) BryanWB: rletada1: and people sometimes use to stop things from becoming more structured (11:40:54 AM) BryanWB: rletada1: so i have some questions for u, what does OLPC mean to u guys? (11:41:02 AM) BryanWB: sorry ^^ for everyone (11:41:27 AM) BryanWB: does it mean every child gets an XO w/ sugar on it? does it mean every kid has access to a computing device of some kind? (11:41:35 AM) BryanWB: and not necessarily an XO? (11:42:36 AM) BryanWB: are you focussed on k-12, k-6? (11:43:10 AM) rletada1: anyone? (11:44:08 AM) dirakx left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). (11:44:30 AM) BryanWB: olpc, community -- these words mean a lot of different things to different people, so i want to find out what they mean to you folks (11:44:42 AM) KChristophD: also, if I may jump in with a question, will this be a 9-to-5 full-time project for most of you or something that's done after the day job? (11:45:05 AM) mafe: BryanWB: XO will still be our primary choice of hardware (11:45:09 AM) BryanWB: KChristophD: exactly, r u guys looking to quit your jobs and work on this full-time or just in free time (11:45:20 AM) object404: Me, I'm focused on platform-agnostic solutions (like browser-based e-learning content), working on this in my spare time. (11:45:32 AM) object404: browser, pdf, flash (11:46:47 AM) jsgotangco: this is entirely volunteer driven at the moment (11:46:56 AM) jsgotangco: from our free time (11:47:21 AM) KChristophD: jsgotangco: but is the plan to keep it that way in the future? or are there thoughts to turning this into a job for some of you? (11:47:48 AM) wenmi: yeah (11:48:00 AM) jsgotangco: KChristophD: if we get traction and enough growth, then full time should happen (11:48:09 AM) wenmi: i'm thinking this to be a job for me. something that I will love to do.. :) (11:48:31 AM) lareza: one child gets one laptop, with sugar as main software, XO as hardware,volunteers get to find time (not full time) to work on the project like finding funds to support technical team who will work on the project full time for a specific period of time (11:49:05 AM) rletada1: Great questions Bryan: eKindling is asking the same questions of ourselves as well. We are dedicated to providing access to quality education (broad) through technology infused learning. More specifically, we are dedicated to transforming learners into critical thinkers, digitally literate students.. (11:49:20 AM) BryanWB: i am wary of the phrase "community-driven" because this project doesn't just belong to the volunteer participants (11:49:26 AM) object404: in preliminary talks with some members of olpc-ph (Charles Chen, etc), after a formal registered organization is formed, there are some plans on hiring a staff including developers (11:49:30 AM) BryanWB: it belongs to all filipinos (11:49:52 AM) object404: For this to work, there need to be fulltime staff members. (11:49:58 AM) rletada1: Totally agree with you Bryan, different stakeholders (11:49:59 AM) BryanWB: object404: definitely (11:50:01 AM) object404: because this is a heavy undertaking. (11:50:18 AM) jsgotangco: +1 (11:50:23 AM) mafe: it's in a long term plan that we'll have full time staff (11:50:24 AM) KChristophD: object404: +1 (11:50:24 AM) lareza: agree (11:50:46 AM) rletada1: Agreed Naz, this is why eKindling is taking the steps to formalize and increase capacity to undertake project deployments (11:50:56 AM) mafe: even we'll need to compensate teachers who will be greatly involve in deployment and implementation (11:50:57 AM) BryanWB: and that is why u need a solid Board of directors that makes the organization responsible, and it should representation from volunteers (11:51:07 AM) BryanWB: s/should/should have/ (11:51:41 AM) J [n=jmannion@121.96.104.221] entered the room. (11:52:10 AM) BryanWB: i also don't like elections for the leaders of the organization, consensus is generally better. there should be elections for the community representative on the board of directors (11:52:45 AM) BryanWB: should i talk about what "community" means here in Nepal? (11:52:53 AM) rletada1: Yes Definitely! (11:52:55 AM) mafe: yes plz.. (11:53:27 AM) BryanWB: a community organization is a group of people with common goals, defined outputs, and a timeline for those outputs (11:53:43 AM) BryanWB: those goals have to be very clearly defined, as well as outputs, timeline (11:54:33 AM) BryanWB: Here in Nepal we had a community organization that grew into a non-profit organization (11:54:52 AM) mchua left the room (quit: "Holy shiny distraction, Batman!"). (11:55:03 AM) BryanWB: w/ an excellent board of directors (11:55:38 AM) BryanWB: it isn't enough to be responsible to the community of volunteers, you have to be responsible to the public (11:56:16 AM) aa [n=aa@r190-135-186-128.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] entered the room. (11:57:00 AM) BryanWB: the hard part is coming to a consensus on the goals and your leaders and essentially handing control to the board of directors (11:57:04 AM) BryanWB: u have to do it (11:57:17 AM) BryanWB: remember though that u can have a community rep on the board (11:57:33 AM) BryanWB: here in nepal we don't, because virtually all the community members work at ole nepal (11:58:49 AM) BryanWB: One thing u will find, is that the more carefully you define your goals the fewer volunteers u attract (11:58:52 AM) BryanWB: but that is ok (11:59:10 AM) BryanWB: it is better to have a dedicated core than a loose group of enthusiasts (12:00:11 PM) BryanWB: it is hard to balance community, openness, and effectiveness (12:00:25 PM) BryanWB: for example, we don't let anyone who wants to know visit the schools w/ xo's (12:00:33 PM) BryanWB: there are so many people who want to visit (12:00:41 PM) BryanWB: that the schools would find it __very__ distracting (12:00:53 PM) jsgotangco: that makes sense (12:01:27 PM) BryanWB: for us, visiting the schools is a privilege u earn after contributing (12:02:30 PM) mafe: i agree...and it's great to know ...since this will not be at far to happened in the PH setting (12:02:55 PM) BryanWB: but this isn't impossible process, it just takes work, and there are more resources for hardware, content dev, and organization than u realize (12:03:37 PM) BryanWB: so most people think getting the resources is the hard part and it isn't (12:03:38 PM) rletada1: how do you begin to differentiate? what are the signs that differentiate between core and "a loose group of enthusiasts?" (12:03:49 PM) mafe: how did you get started in supporting the hardware? or the whole program itself? (12:04:37 PM) BryanWB: rletada1: the stuff your org produces, should be produces in an open manner (12:04:48 PM) BryanWB: so that anyone can participate (12:05:16 PM) BryanWB: rletada1: but i am not sure how to differentiate in a systematic way (12:05:31 PM) BryanWB: rletada1: as in who gets to vote for the community rep on the board (12:05:57 PM) rletada1: makes sense (12:06:30 PM) BryanWB: people will participate in a community if it is producing something that they care about it (12:07:34 PM) BryanWB: a community does not have to be democratic to be effective, consensus is generally a more effective mechanism than elections (12:07:59 PM) mafe: aside from consensus among the community ... what it takes to be an excellent board of directors? (12:08:18 PM) BryanWB: so to u folks in olpc-ph: Here is the good news. It isn't that hard to get resources. You just have to spend more time on an organizational structure than u previously thought (12:08:33 PM) BryanWB: mafe: well-respected people that are leaders in their fields (12:08:54 PM) mchua [n=mchua@nat/redhat/x-401dfb040ba31f13] entered the room. (12:09:22 PM) BryanWB: mafe: the board of directors basically says "We believe this organization helps the nation. If it isn't effective, we will change the management or dissolve it" (12:09:37 PM) BryanWB: "If the organization wastes public funds, we take personal responsibility" (12:10:09 PM) BryanWB: mafe: on our board we have lawyer who has argued most cases in front of Nepal's supreme court (12:10:48 PM) BryanWB: mafe: it's most respected doctor, CEO of a leading bank, an expert on education, a great economist, ... (12:11:00 PM) BryanWB: and they all believe in the cause (12:11:48 PM) BryanWB: dont' put your cousin, younger brother, on the board, it looks bad and undermines your credibiltyy (12:12:25 PM) mafe: no nepotism...:) (12:12:49 PM) BryanWB: how we got started in Nepal: 1) formed the non-profit w/ consensus that rabi would be the executive director (he is nepali) 2) got the board of directors (12:12:50 PM) rletada1: noted. Just to update you guys, a couple of individuals have already approached eKindling to be part of its Board of Directors. We will make this process as transparent as possible. But if you guys have any suggestions, please feel free to tell us.. (12:13:04 PM) BryanWB: 3) got funding (12:13:27 PM) mafe: noting on some of board criteria...tough though! (12:13:44 PM) BryanWB: sorry 3) made a plan to implement a pilot of olpc 4) got funding (12:13:51 PM) BryanWB: mafe: it isn't so tough, it just takes some time (12:14:39 PM) BryanWB: but steps 1, 2, 3, 4 are what is needed to get organized and get funding (12:15:06 PM) BryanWB: but to maintain a healthy volunteer community, the key is to produce something that people like and can participate in (12:15:22 PM) BryanWB: for us that was EPaath , a suite of learning activities for Nepal (12:15:56 PM) rletada1: Bryan, I have another question for you ..and I guess this is where the convo is heading.. (12:16:34 PM) rletada1: Can you talk more about the community and content development? How do you mobolize volunteers and full-time (12:16:40 PM) rletada1: workers to create valuable content? (12:17:10 PM) BryanWB: rletada1: it used to be a lot harder, but now it is getting easier (12:17:32 PM) BryanWB: rletada1: i think the best way is to create simple learning activities using html and javascript and put them on your website (12:17:36 PM) mchua: rletada1: re transparency: where is the public mailing list, wiki, publicly published meeting times for discussion and decision of important things like boards of directors? (12:17:54 PM) BryanWB: mchua: rletada1: yeah, that is needed (12:18:27 PM) KChristophD: mchua, BryanWB: mailing list is at http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-philippines (12:18:29 PM) mchua: rletada1: also the list of individuals who have approached you already - they should approach whoever is going to be selecting them. if it's a closed group, fine; if it's a closed group with open comments, or an open group, then they should be publicly announcing this and making their case there. (12:18:34 PM) KChristophD: mchua: hi by the way (12:18:55 PM) BryanWB: rletada1: we created the EPaath stuff and put it on our website, that is w/ flash. but if i had to do it over again we would use html + js (12:19:00 PM) mchua: KChristophD: long time no see! (12:19:20 PM) mchua: KChristophD: I wasn't sure whether rletada1 and the others planned on creating a separate eKindling space, as they're a different org from OLPC. (12:19:21 PM) KChristophD: mchua: indeed (12:19:40 PM) ***mchua is a proponent of radical transparency, in general. (12:19:44 PM) BryanWB: mchua: the thing, is u can't put publicly who u decided not to choose or disqualified from board membership (12:19:57 PM) mchua: BryanWB: legally? or politically? (12:19:58 PM) BryanWB: mchua: that would be pretty insulting to the people you didn't choose (12:20:07 PM) BryanWB: mchua: personally insulting (12:20:15 PM) mchua: BryanWB: well, the criteria and the process (as mafe noted) at least should be public. (12:20:20 PM) rletada1: mchua: transparency is key, you showed us that :) (12:20:23 PM) mchua: BryanWB: and the list of people who are doing the choosing should be public. (12:20:25 PM) BryanWB: mchua: yes, the criteria should be public (12:20:32 PM) BryanWB: mchua: absolutely (12:20:43 PM) mchua: BryanWB: and the reasons for the individual applications to be private (the ones you just mentioned) should be public, too. :) (12:21:04 PM) mchua: basically, if you can't tell them, at least tell them what you can't tell them, and why (...if you can tell them that.) (12:21:07 PM) mafe: I agree ..on that...there are certain things that you can just be transparent about.... (12:21:43 PM) mchua: There are definitely times and places and situations that *must* be private. They are, however, far fewer than most of us are habitually used to making private by defaut. (12:22:06 PM) rletada1: moving forward: we will create some sort of a search committee that are comprised different community members/stakeholders (12:22:10 PM) BryanWB: mchua: u definitely can't put bad stuff about the govt in your documentation. Who wants a bribe, who is useless, etc. (12:22:22 PM) BryanWB: mchua: that will destroy your relationship w/ them (12:22:26 PM) mchua: +1 (12:22:41 PM) BryanWB: mchua: because someone will e-mail the documentation link to them (12:23:24 PM) BryanWB: mchua: u also can't say who is bribing the govt (12:23:31 PM) Kent [n=kpalmer@65.202.221.2] entered the room. (12:23:37 PM) rletada1: that will identify criteria and needs, and inevitably select the members of the board of directors. (we will also flesh this out some more) (12:24:01 PM) KChristophD: I think we might be on the border of getting stuck in too many details, let's keep this conversation flowing a bit broader (12:24:27 PM) BryanWB: mchua: rletada1: so my strong opinion is that you don't have to make all your decisions democratically, but u should be transparent about them (12:24:38 PM) BryanWB: that is, why u made those decisions (12:24:51 PM) mchua: BryanWB: +1 (12:24:57 PM) rletada1: Election 2010 is coming up. Very important and senstive time in the Philippines (12:25:30 PM) mchua: I think the BoD is a good case study for transparency vs democracy, as long as the discussion here is also taken as a "do this for other things as well" note. (12:25:44 PM) rletada1: well we have a couple of developers in the room. (12:26:13 PM) BryanWB: rletada1: so about content development (12:26:22 PM) rletada1: can you talk more about mobilizing the (full-time and part time, volunteer ) developers to create content (12:26:41 PM) BryanWB: rletada1: i think the best way to make effective content is to start w/ what we call the "Activity Text" (12:27:07 PM) BryanWB: rletada1: that is a document that imagines a learning activity and describes how it works. A developer, teacher, or anyone can write it (12:27:16 PM) mafe: can you tell us more about that? (12:27:18 PM) BryanWB: but it is the dna that travels w/ an activity (12:27:30 PM) BryanWB: mafe: actually KChristophD can u do that? (12:28:28 PM) mafe: it's a simple activity.... (12:28:40 PM) BryanWB: i guess i will (12:29:10 PM) BryanWB: activity text can be very simple and change over time. It basically is the blueprint for the activity and what it should teach (12:29:22 PM) BryanWB: then someone else or the same person can code it (12:29:54 PM) BryanWB: then the next two important documents for an activity are the Teacher's Note and the Lesson Plan --- how to use these in the classroom (12:30:35 PM) KChristophD: one note on the activity text: while it *can (12:31:02 PM) KChristophD: one note on the activity text: while it *can* be written by anyone I do believe that it's best written by someone with experience in education and the national curriculum (12:31:18 PM) KChristophD: what's important is to focus on the "learning goals" (12:31:31 PM) BryanWB: KChristophD: agreed (12:31:39 PM) object404: Hey Bryan. With regards to the lesson plan, how many schools did you deploy XOs in and how did you resolve the differences in curriculum between different schools? (12:31:42 PM) mafe: +1 (12:31:42 PM) BryanWB: KChristophD: and it is a great way to get teachers involved (12:31:51 PM) BryanWB: object404: there is one national curriculum in nepal (12:32:03 PM) object404: Good for Nepal! :) (12:32:10 PM) object404: less headache :) (12:32:20 PM) BryanWB: the activity text could just describe how to use turtle art to teach a concept, and then the lesson plan and teacher's note explain to teacher how to lead the class in the exercise (12:32:21 PM) mafe: KChritstophD...yes... (12:32:27 PM) KChristophD: object404: different schools have different curriculums in PH? (12:32:30 PM) alsroot_ [n=alsroot@pdpc/supporter/active/antilopa-gnu] entered the room. (12:32:39 PM) object404: with regards to coming up with content. Yes, that's a challenge we'll have to overcome here. (12:32:47 PM) BryanWB: the key is that these documents lead u to content that will work in the classroom (12:32:50 PM) jsgotangco: object404: the public school system has only 1 curriculum (12:32:57 PM) mafe: rletada1: the activity text will be a great starting activity for our discovery session (12:33:05 PM) jsgotangco: the private schools also have to adhere to that curriculum but may use other resources (12:33:26 PM) KChristophD: jsgotangco: thats what I had expected (12:33:32 PM) mafe: jsgotangco: +1 (12:33:35 PM) rletada1: mafe: yes definitely (12:33:53 PM) jsgotangco: KChristophD: i have a kid :) (12:34:08 PM) BryanWB: i recommend u create content using html and javascript, u can use the framework karma or your own (12:34:39 PM) BryanWB: I don't recommend using python, simply because I bet you have 100x more web developers in PH than python developers (12:34:48 PM) jsgotangco: yep (12:36:39 PM) The topic for #sugar-meeting is: The meeting channel for the Sugar learning platform (sugarlabs.org) | see also #sugar (12:36:42 PM) BryanWB: raybaq: yes (12:37:26 PM) BryanWB: mafe: the key is you want people to be able to see your content online and offline. (12:37:33 PM) object404: I guess the time to use Flash over DHTML is when you're doing animations. (12:37:45 PM) BryanWB: mafe: from your website or in a sugar bundle (12:37:52 PM) BryanWB: object404: i don't recommend using flash (12:37:55 PM) KChristophD: object404: Karma is supposed to take care of things such as animations as well (12:38:01 PM) BryanWB: object404: that is what we use in Nepal (12:38:03 PM) jsgotangco: yes Karma should (12:38:04 PM) BryanWB: flash is (12:38:28 PM) BryanWB: object404: but it is harder for people to collaborate on flash activities because they are delivered in binary form (12:38:53 PM) BryanWB: object404: students can contribute to karma just using their browser and the firebug extension (12:40:28 PM) rletada: does anyone else have any questions about content development? (12:40:37 PM) BryanWB: i got interested with html + js for learning activities because a number of people have told me that they find it hard to contribute to our flash activities (12:40:53 PM) KChristophD: another important consideration IMHO is internationalization. we want to make it as easy as possible to share content between PH, NP, AT, DE, UK, UY, PE, etc. (12:40:59 PM) object404: I meant with Flash for frame-based animations. (12:41:01 PM) BryanWB: KChristophD: absolutely (12:41:02 PM) KChristophD: no point in reinventing the wheel all the time (12:41:04 PM) mafe: yes..that's my how? (12:41:13 PM) BryanWB: object404: even then i think html5 + js is better (12:41:21 PM) mafe: like the Lesson Plan Exchange (12:41:25 PM) BryanWB: mafe: yup (12:41:54 PM) KChristophD: mafe: I'm less thinking of the lesson plan, because that one will be very country specific in many ways (12:42:05 PM) object404: one problem is finding HTML+JS developers here in the Ph who do e-learning. There are a lot of Flashd developers who do e-learning here. (12:42:24 PM) KChristophD: rather what I'd LOVE to do today is to simply take the exisiting nepali epaath activites, show them to Austrian teachers and then attempt them and the support materials accordingly (12:42:39 PM) alsroot left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). (12:42:46 PM) mafe: KChristophD: but it's sharing of what others are doing (12:42:57 PM) mafe: learning from others... (12:43:08 PM) mafe: on how they do things (12:43:16 PM) rletada: Ray - Does APC deal with HTML + JS in terms of elearning? (12:43:18 PM) BryanWB: mafe: but also we can help u (12:43:19 PM) KChristophD: mafe: I agree, but I dont think the lesson plan is a key component there (12:43:49 PM) jsgotangco: i dont see a lot of difficulty moving towards html5+js in the future considering its pretty broad in terms of acceptance (12:43:53 PM) mafe: so seeing different lesson plans is a learning experience ... (12:43:54 PM) BryanWB: mafe: the activity Text is the starting point, the DNA of the activity (12:43:55 PM) jsgotangco: professional or otherwise (12:44:08 PM) KChristophD: BryanWB: +1 (12:44:15 PM) BryanWB: object404: flash devs just don't share stuff (12:44:31 PM) jsgotangco: delivering in binaries always have problems (12:44:38 PM) KChristophD: mafe: the lesson plans would need to be translated and then still point to e.g. page 23 in the nepali standard book on english. which isnt much use to anyone else outside nepal (12:44:44 PM) raybaq: rletada: there's no special focus on elearning in student projects--we want to change that. the students do use HTML+JS (12:44:45 PM) BryanWB: mafe: the activity_text will generally be applicable in almost every country, (12:45:03 PM) BryanWB: mafe: i bet u that the activity_texts we have here in nepal are 99% applicable to PH (12:45:16 PM) jsgotangco: yup (12:45:24 PM) rletada: great! (12:45:33 PM) object404: cool (12:45:36 PM) mafe: BryanWB: I need to really get to understand fully the activity_text... (12:45:39 PM) mafe: great... (12:46:07 PM) rletada: well guys, for the sake of time..can we move into project deployment? (12:46:12 PM) BryanWB: KChristophD: what is the latest documentation on the activity_text u have? (12:46:15 PM) BryanWB: rletada: sure (12:46:58 PM) mafe: BryanWB: plz if you have the latest doc...will be appreciated (12:47:16 PM) rletada: well, you spoke about deployment in schools. I believe waveplace has taken a different approach by having afterschool activities..( I will verify this ) (12:47:23 PM) BryanWB: KChristophD: ^^ (12:47:34 PM) rletada: can you talk about OLE Nepal and its deployment model (12:47:40 PM) rletada: and where does the community fit in there? (12:47:41 PM) KChristophD: BryanWB: the blog post is the best starting point (12:48:08 PM) BryanWB: rletada: yes, we don't use the XO as an extra activity or for additional lessons (12:48:19 PM) BryanWB: rletada: it is central (12:48:20 PM) KChristophD: description of activity text is included in http://blog.olenepal.org/index.php/archives/335 (12:48:39 PM) mafe: KChristophD: thanks... (12:48:41 PM) BryanWB: to learning English, Maths, and Nepali for grades 2, 3, and 6 (12:49:24 PM) BryanWB: the teachers were resistant to using the XO's until they found out we had content for them to use in the classroom in the subjects they have the most trouble teaching (12:49:54 PM) object404: Q: What was the method for you to deploy custom content for the XOs? Did you create a generic image that could be flashed/loaded into the other XOs? (12:50:13 PM) BryanWB: When u introduce any kind of new tool, you have to show people how it helps them do things they currently do more easily than before (12:50:42 PM) BryanWB: It isn't enough if the tool helps them do new things, they couldn't do before (12:50:53 PM) BryanWB: object404: yes, i can give u a link to that later (12:51:24 PM) jsgotangco: yes the image is always unique frome the G1G1 (12:51:40 PM) BryanWB: rletada: then showing teachers how they can use the laptops and the content in the classroom (12:52:58 PM) BryanWB: rletada: what aspects of deployment model do u want to talk about? there are many? (12:53:19 PM) rletada: In the Philippines, many non-profit organizations, private institutions, rotary clubs, etc sponsor/adopt public schools (12:53:59 PM) BryanWB: make sure u work w/ schools that represent the average PH school, not the model schools (12:54:07 PM) rletada1 left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). (12:54:19 PM) BryanWB: people won't take u seriously if u do your pilot at the richest school in Manila (12:54:37 PM) BryanWB: also, the kids at a poor school will show __a lot__ more improvement (12:54:46 PM) mafe: BryanWB: +1 (12:54:55 PM) J left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). (12:55:05 PM) jsgotangco: its because the expectations of rich schools are higher than those of schools in poor communities? (12:55:34 PM) BryanWB: jsgotangco: no, it is because rich kids already have libraries, educated parents, small class sizes, etc. (12:55:34 PM) rletada: does OLE Nepal make it a point to partner with schools that have such partnerships? (12:55:43 PM) BryanWB: jsgotangco: computers won't make much of a difference (12:55:48 PM) BryanWB: rletada: no (12:56:04 PM) BryanWB: rletada: we got funding to cover whichever schools we chose (12:56:07 PM) jsgotangco: well ok (12:56:26 PM) jsgotangco: because some public schools DO have a computer system although the computer/student ratio is atrocious (12:56:35 PM) jsgotangco: but those schools come from the bigger cities (12:56:47 PM) jsgotangco: while schools outside the city have none (12:56:55 PM) BryanWB: jsgotangco: the key is to choose schools which are average or worse than average (12:57:18 PM) BryanWB: jsgotangco: the XO's make a difference because they represent a lot of educational resources in a tiny package (12:57:35 PM) BryanWB: jsgotangco: if the kids don't have many resources, the XO makes a bigger impact (12:57:54 PM) jsgotangco: yeah (12:58:03 PM) BryanWB: we found the 6th graders at many of our schools doing the grade 2 english and maths activities (12:58:04 PM) mafe: but if kids has ipods, DS light (12:58:06 PM) mafe: lite (12:58:16 PM) BryanWB: mafe: xo's won't make a huge difference then (12:58:20 PM) mafe: yes (12:58:22 PM) jsgotangco: i doubt if public school kids have those anyway (12:58:35 PM) object404: Is power/electricity an issue in the schools where the XOs are deployed? Also, are the XOs taken home by the students or do they just stay w/ the school? (12:58:38 PM) jmannion [n=jmannion@121.96.104.221] entered the room. (12:58:41 PM) BryanWB: object404: yes it is (12:58:52 PM) BryanWB: object404: we only go to schools that are wired for electricity (12:59:03 PM) BryanWB: object404: the XOs are taken home (12:59:25 PM) BryanWB: to date, out of 2000 xo's deployed none have been stolen or lost (12:59:34 PM) rletada: great! (12:59:39 PM) jsgotangco: wow (12:59:44 PM) object404: That's good to hear. It's a little bit of a concern over here because of the possibility of mugging/theft. (12:59:47 PM) mafe: BryabWB: do the kids...return them after school year ends? (12:59:50 PM) rletada: incredible (12:59:58 PM) BryanWB: mafe: they take it to next grade (1:00:15 PM) rletada: object404: +1. Security is a big issue, especially in urban poor communities (1:00:17 PM) mafe: BryanWB: wow.... (1:00:38 PM) BryanWB: we are also working in rural areas, in the village everyone knows everyone so mugging is not an issue (1:00:53 PM) BryanWB: i think some would be stolen if we were working in urban areas (1:00:58 PM) jsgotangco: whats the risk of them selling the laptops (1:01:04 PM) BryanWB: very low (1:01:07 PM) mafe: what is the usual number per class in a classroom in nepal? (1:01:11 PM) BryanWB: 50 (1:01:13 PM) BryanWB: mafe: ^^ (1:01:20 PM) jsgotangco: BryanWB: why is that? (1:01:25 PM) jsgotangco: (low chance) (1:01:28 PM) BryanWB: mafe: but in many places about 100 (1:01:32 PM) jsgotangco: becuse they are remotely located? (1:01:34 PM) BryanWB: jsgotangco: the parents value them (1:01:45 PM) mafe: wow pretty much like the PH (1:01:49 PM) jsgotangco: yeah that's a key factor (1:01:51 PM) rletada: Bryan, can you talk more about a successful pilot program that OLE Nepal has implemented (1:02:05 PM) BryanWB: jsgotangco: and it would look bad if their child no longer had an XO but the others did (1:02:23 PM) BryanWB: rletada: i am sorry man, can we talk more later i need to get back to work (1:02:36 PM) BryanWB: rletada: can we close up talking about funding issues? (1:02:39 PM) jsgotangco: ahh so there's really no chance to replace it if its lost (1:02:39 PM) rletada: hahah dont worry. We took a lot of your time? (1:02:48 PM) jsgotangco: well we're almost 3 hours in the chat (1:02:51 PM) rletada: sure, definitely.. (1:02:54 PM) BryanWB: rletada: i don't mind but i have to get back to work (1:03:13 PM) rletada: disregard the question mark. Weve been here for 3 hours.. (1:03:15 PM) BryanWB: i recommend talking to richard rowe of OLE.org he can be very helpful in getting funding (1:03:22 PM) mafe: BryanWB: thanks so much for sharing.... (1:03:31 PM) BryanWB: i recommend talking to matt keller of olpc about getting xo's (1:03:48 PM) BryanWB: richard rowe can help w/ content but probably not w/ XO's (1:04:00 PM) BryanWB: that is matt@laptop.org and richard@ole.org (1:04:10 PM) mafe: thanks (1:04:14 PM) rletada: Yes, thanks! (1:05:03 PM) jsgotangco: rletada: send BryanWB a balut as a token of appreciation (1:05:04 PM) jsgotangco: ;) (1:05:12 PM) BryanWB: then find out which international donors participate in the PH's Education For All program, which is part of the UN mileenium development goals (1:05:17 PM) rletada: thanks so much for the insights! Haha, yes bryan - i will send you a balut (1:05:26 PM) mafe: BryanWB: invite him over when we launch ekindling hahahacan you share with us (1:05:39 PM) BryanWB: read the reports from the EFA program. (1:05:57 PM) mafe: offlin also how you do the lobbying in the govt...lol (1:06:03 PM) mafe: *offline (1:06:05 PM) BryanWB: those reports should identify what problems PH is having in education, and these are the problems the govt and the donors want to tackle (1:06:24 PM) BryanWB: then make a presentation to them how your program can address those issues (1:06:43 PM) BryanWB: mafe: ^^ that is the best way to lobby govt, help them solve their problems (1:06:53 PM) rletada: Here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balut_(egg) (1:07:12 PM) BryanWB: rletada: i have had balut, it is .. ok ;) (1:07:18 PM) mafe: BryanWB: got ya (1:07:21 PM) jsgotangco: lol (1:07:27 PM) jsgotangco: send him a durian then (1:07:29 PM) rletada: great! (1:07:33 PM) BryanWB: i love durian (1:07:39 PM) jsgotangco: hehe (1:07:44 PM) mafe: really ...wow...first time to hear that... (1:08:17 PM) jsgotangco: ok i think its time to close this (1:08:21 PM) BryanWB: i was in manila once for 2 weeks ;) (1:08:35 PM) rletada: ok, we will have to get you back here! (1:08:36 PM) BryanWB: later guys, best of luck and let me know how i can help (1:08:43 PM) BryanWB: jsgotangco: any luck w/ liferay demo? (1:08:51 PM) jsgotangco: BryanWB: yeah i have it working locally (1:08:53 PM) mafe: Thanks so much ...and Mabuhay! BryanWB (1:08:59 PM) rletada: thank you so much, and will keep you posted. (1:08:59 PM) jsgotangco: BryanWB: let's chat in an hour (1:09:05 PM) BryanWB: jsgotangco: sure (1:09:11 PM) BryanWB left the room ("Ex-Chat"). (1:09:14 PM) rletada: Everyone - I will post the minutes (1:09:15 PM) jsgotangco: BryanWB: KChristophD let's chat later ill be having lunch first (1:09:22 PM) rletada: on our wiki (1:09:37 PM) KChristophD: jsgotangco: sounds good to me (1:09:38 PM) mafe: rletada: great...thanks everyone (1:09:42 PM) mafe: bye .... (1:09:43 PM) KChristophD: jsgotangco: ping me whenever you're ready (1:09:44 PM) BryanWB [n=BryanWB@202.63.242.211] entered the room. (1:09:50 PM) KChristophD: mafe: speak soon (1:09:54 PM) mafe: rletada: salamat (1:10:01 PM) rletada: and I hope you can join us again on our next Kindling Discovery Series (1:10:06 PM) mafe: KChristophD: I will ... (1:10:11 PM) jsgotangco: rletada: tnx for arranging this (1:10:12 PM) mafe: about the activity_txt (1:10:21 PM) rletada: We will keep everyone posted via Facebook, twitter, and our wiki! (1:10:25 PM) rletada: so thanks guys.. (1:10:26 PM) BryanWB: rletada: it would be my pleasure (1:10:35 PM) KChristophD: rletada: what's your twitter handle? (1:10:47 PM) mafe: KChristophD: you too should visit PH and do your research there... (1:10:54 PM) rletada: www.twitter.com/ekindling (1:10:58 PM) raybaq: TY, all. (1:11:08 PM) raybaq left the room (quit: "Bye!"). (1:11:14 PM) KChristophD: rletada: thx, I'm @random_musings (1:11:26 PM) rletada: for general inquiries: community@ekindling.org (1:11:29 PM) KChristophD: mafe: I'd definitely love to do that! (1:11:56 PM) rletada: KChristophD: great will follow you (1:12:07 PM) rletada: On behalf of eKindling: Thanks everyone! (1:12:10 PM) rletada: Goodbye