OLPC:Volunteer Infrastructure Group/2008-09-30
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Action Items
ACTION ITEM: put a list of needed/wanted roles on wiki incl. sec'y
Agenda
17:15 <@hhardy> Need secretary 17:15 <@hhardy> Heavy wiki usage bringing pedal to a crawl--Uruguay 17:15 <@hhardy> Lfaraone committee on single-signon options 17:15 <@hhardy> SAGE Sysadmin Ethics Statements 17:15 <@hhardy> GPG 17:15 <@hhardy> State of rt 17:15 <@hhardy> Big Sister/oncall schedule 17:15 <@hhardy> Big Sister tuning 17:15 <@hhardy> Big Sister maintainer
Need secretary
17:15 <@hhardy> ---START--- 17:15 <@hhardy> hi all 17:15 <@hhardy> who is here and awake? 17:15 < dogi> ne 17:15 < dogi> me 17:16 < isforinsects> Hi hi 17:16 <@hhardy> ffm was here a minute ago 17:17 <@hhardy> ok first item: it would be nice if someone would like to take the task of preparing and posting the meeting minutes 17:17 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: Need Secretary 17:17 <@hhardy> isforinsects and mel have been helping me 17:17 <@hhardy> but as we are all employees, we are in a crunch for 8.2 release and G1G1 17:18 * isforinsects is usually panicKing and busy 17:18 <@hhardy> Let's mention this to support-gang, perhaps someone from there would liuke to help 17:19 <@hhardy> ACTION ITEM: put a list of needed/wanted roles on wiki incl. sec'y
Heavy wiki usage
17:19 -!- cjb [~cjb@pullcord.laptop.org] has joined #olpc-admin 17:19 -!- _sj_ [~sj_@18.85.49.41] has joined #olpc-admin 17:19 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: Heavy wiki usage bringing pedal to a crawl--Uruguay 17:20 < _sj_> uuu 17:20 <@hhardy> mememe 17:20 < _sj_> uuu loves wiwiwi 17:20 <@hhardy> ok lol(olol) 17:20 < dogi> hi sj 17:20 < dogi> hi cjb 17:20 <@hhardy> pedal is getting very slow esp every morning around 9 and at noon 17:20 <@hhardy> lot of action from uruguay 17:21 <@hhardy> and this will pick up a lot with G1G1 and other deployments coming online 17:21 < _sj_> dogi! I was just wanting to talk to you 17:21 <@hhardy> caching is a bit complicated because there's a lot of live content which doesn't port well to squid or like 17:21 < _sj_> I have a q for the gang here 17:21 < _sj_> in addition to the wiki trouble 17:21 -!- reubencaron [~reubenkca@dhcp-49-81.media.mit.edu] has joined #olpc-admin 17:22 < _sj_> how do we harden mailman so that it an support a 100,000-person mailing list/ 17:22 < _sj_> ? 17:22 <@hhardy> for the nonce, I reduced the keep-alive time from 15 to 10 seconds and reduced the number of keep-alive sessions from 100 to 80 17:22 < _sj_> I'd like to gather a list of everyone who wants g1g1 announcements / updates. might be much larger than other lists we have. 17:22 < cjb> _sj_: people who manage 100,000 person mailing lists don't use mailman 17:22 < _sj_> we'd need to make sure that outgoing mail is batched somehow so it's not flagged as spam from our isp, &c 17:22 < _sj_> right :) 17:22 < _sj_> what do they use then? 17:22 <@hhardy> on the theory that most of the XO's probably take > 15 seconds to load 1 page and therefore not benefiting from the keep-alive anyway 17:22 < cjb> there's mass-mailing software out there 17:22 < cjb> I don't have experience with it, though 17:22 < cjb> anyway, it's a different usecase to mailman 17:23 <@hhardy> let's send that out from google or somewhere offsite pls 17:23 <@hhardy> poor pedal 17:23 <@hhardy> are we going to talk about mass mailing sw? 17:23 < _sj_> civimail via civicrm perhaps 17:23 < _sj_> another machine for that? 17:23 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: mass mailing software 17:24 < _sj_> can that be on the same machine as a non-core-mail dev machine? 17:24 < cjb> hhardy: first we'd have to find someone who knows anything about mass mailing software 17:24 < _sj_> the interesting problem raised by the wiki slowdown is: 17:24 < cjb> so no, probably not a good idea to talk about it now 17:24 <@hhardy> it could also be a problem regarding MIT's acceptable use policies 17:24 < _sj_> we need to separate core mail processing from other activities that may get swamped 17:24 < _sj_> since mail is critical to our work 17:24 < isforinsects> sj, don't change the subject 17:24 <@hhardy> let's take this next week if there is a proposal 17:24 < isforinsects> massive amounts of mail. 17:24 < _sj_> I think the relevant solution to the bug 17:24 < _sj_> (originally) which was nn's mail not getting through 17:24 < _sj_> is to separate wiki server from mailserver. 17:25 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: Heavy wiki usage bringing pedal to a crawl--Uruguay 17:25 < _sj_> "bringing pedal to a crawl" is too much of a blocker atm 17:25 <@hhardy> I said I didn't want to comtinue getting complaints from NN about his mail being delayed 17:25 <@hhardy> the base problem is load average up to 77 17:25 <@hhardy> and > 20 seconds to load a webpage or wiki page 17:25 < _sj_> dogi, that mail questoin above was for you :) that's what I was looking for you about. 17:25 <@hhardy> and cpu at 94% 17:25 < lfaraone> (back) 17:26 < _sj_> I'm done with it atm 17:26 < cjb> putting the wiki somewhere else sounds good 17:27 <@hhardy> I'm concerned that links to the wiki and website were put into the recent XO builds without due consideration or care about the impact on our existing mission critical systems 17:27 < lfaraone> hhardy: can we set up squid caches? 17:27 < lfaraone> hhardy: ask our friends at RH/google to assist? 17:27 <@hhardy> can we find somewhere offsite such as OSUOSL where the main wiki could move to? 17:27 < _sj_> 1 mailserver. 1 wiki server (with memchaced and squid set up, even if minimal, to support better caching). 17:27 <@hhardy> squid isn't that good for content generated on the fly 17:28 < cjb> I think we need control of it, since it's giving our users software to install automatically 17:28 < _sj_> 1 server for active dev services (trac, rt, git) 17:28 < lfaraone> hhardy: squid/memcached is used my mediawiki. 17:28 < lfaraone> hhardy: *wikimedia 17:28 < _sj_> squid + apaches with memcached works just fine for large dynamic wikis 17:28 <@hhardy> I would also suggest looking into fastcgi 17:28 < _sj_> once the basic setup is in place it's not so hard to add in new machines to take on more load 17:29 <@hhardy> does someone want to look into scalability issues for wiki? 17:29 <@hhardy> and come up with a proposal or list of suggestions? 17:30 < _sj_> $wgMainCacheType = CACHE_NONE; 17:30 < _sj_> $wgMessageCacheType = CACHE_NONE; 17:30 < _sj_> $wgParserCacheType = CACHE_NONE; 17:30 < _sj_> $wgCachePages = false; 17:30 < _sj_> these should all be updated. 17:30 < _sj_> a memcached cache is the current recommendation 17:30 < skierpage> http://dammit.lt/2007/01/26/mediawiki-performance-tuning/ has some simple stuff 17:30 < _sj_> and I believe there's an outstanding ticket for it 17:30 < _sj_> domas would be glad to give us some further advice and help, but if we haven't already done basic tuning he'll be less likely to engage 17:30 <@hhardy> let's find that ticket and prioritize it 17:31 <@hhardy> is it in rt? or trac? 17:31 < _sj_> (domas is dammit on irc and runs dammit.lt) 17:31 < _sj_> rt 17:31 <@hhardy> checking rt 17:32 < _sj_> thoughts on the suggested 3-machine division of labor above? 17:32 * dogi checking w.l.o config 17:32 <@hhardy> agree in principle 17:32 -!- Ian_Daniher [~it@69.61.230.246] has joined #olpc-admin 17:33 < cjb> oh, I have a machines question 17:33 < cjb> are weka/owl/awk/the other one doing anything? 17:33 <@hhardy> weka: dont know 17:33 <@hhardy> owl and swan, just mirroring crank and pedal 17:34 < cjb> ok 17:34 <@hhardy> awk, intended to be mirror for OLPC-MFG 17:34 < cjb> I can't ping owl or swan 17:34 < cjb> is that normal? 17:34 <@hhardy> they have been re-iped so they can go to W-91 17:34 < cjb> ok 17:34 < cjb> are they better specs than crank and pedal? 17:34 <@hhardy> I sent a email on that sorry if you didn't get it cjb 17:34 <@hhardy> yes 17:34 <@hhardy> marginally 17:34 < cjb> nah, I think I just didn't pay attention 17:34 < cjb> ok 17:34 <@hhardy> more memory 17:34 < cjb> I was wondering if it's worth switching over to them 17:35 < cjb> how much more? 17:35 <@hhardy> 8 gb v 4 17:35 < cjb> ok 17:35 < cjb> ok, that's all from me 17:35 <@hhardy> once pedal and crank are updated nicely, then we can triage out things and see what use we can make of swan and owl when not in "emergency failover" mode 17:36 < dogi> due i understand it right mailman and all mediawiki is on one server now u wanna split that up? 17:36 <@hhardy> their hardware specs are documented on internal wiki I think 17:36 <@hhardy> dogi: yes 17:36 < dogi> 3 server? 17:36 < lfaraone> which most VIG members cannot see. 17:37 <@hhardy> moving the docs to teamwiki is controversial due to there being a disagreement from sj about setting up a new namespace on the teamwiki 17:37 -!- adric [~adric@adsl-065-007-149-211.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #olpc-admin 17:38 < _sj_> which docs? 17:38 < dogi> how the internal netstructur is bild 17:38 < dogi> +u 17:38 < adric> oops, sorry here now 17:38 < _sj_> is there a need to separate that group from the trusted tech-group on the teamwiki? 17:38 < cjb> yes 17:39 <@hhardy> https://laptop.org/internalwiki/index.php/Network_and_System_Administration_documentation 17:39 < cjb> we are legally bound to keep tech NDA documents inside the company 17:39 < _sj_> currently we have a tech-group and a private-group (the latter is for staff under nda) 17:39 < lfaraone> cjb: really? 17:39 < cjb> well, given that that's what an NDA means, yes. 17:39 < _sj_> the nda material is being moved to the private-group 17:39 < lfaraone> cjb: I thought it allowed for non-emplyees under a NDA. 17:39 < cjb> ok 17:39 < cjb> lfaraone: oh, it does 17:39 < _sj_> and the files themselves will be moved elsewhere 17:39 < cjb> ok
SAGE - GPG
17:40 < dogi> were i have to sign? 17:40 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: moving docs to teamwiki from internal 17:40 < dogi> :) 17:40 < cjb> that sounds fine, then, check with other users of tech that they don't mind their stuff being visible 17:40 < _sj_> to a file control system with proper acl's (mediawiki doesn't provide that) 17:40 < cjb> s/visible/more visible/ 17:40 < _sj_> will do. I'm open to concerns and complaints 17:40 < _sj_> I just don't want to make a namespace if it's not going to be clear what the diff is and people will wonder what to put where, &c 17:40 < _sj_> needless forking is confusing --> less use --> stale data 17:41 <@hhardy> dogi: send the list (or henry@l.o) a pgp-signed letter agreeing to abide by the SAGE code of ethics 17:41 < dogi> is that an option that new member of VIG sign the NDA? 17:41 < dogi> ok 17:41 < _sj_> I couldn't find the rt ticket # but found the original email and resent it 17:41 < _sj_> re memcached 17:41 <@hhardy> http://www.sage.org/ethics/ethics_vert.pdf 17:42 * _sj_ is away 17:42 -!- _sj_ is now known as _sj- 17:42 < lfaraone> hhardy: you rcv'd mine, right? 17:43 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: SAGE Sysadmin Ethics Statements 17:43 <@hhardy> lfaraone: I haven't seen it 17:43 <@hhardy> I don't see it in my gmail under lfaraone either 17:45 <@hhardy> I set up the shared calendar for the VIG for oncall and big sis monitoring etc. 17:45 < lfaraone> hhardy: try "luke at laptop" 17:45 <@hhardy> I put some people on and sent invites, if you would like access to it please email sysadmin@l.o 17:45 < lfaraone> hhardy: sent on the 4th 17:45 <@hhardy> found it lf 17:45 <@hhardy> good show 17:46 < adric> Is mine to the list okay? 17:46 <@hhardy> yes list is preferred 17:49 <@hhardy> we are still looking for a Big sister maintainer and oncall coordinator(s) 17:50 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: Big sister 17:50 <@hhardy> any new business? 17:51 <@hhardy> la la la...
single-signon
17:51 < lfaraone> hhardy: you skipped the sso topic. 17:51 <@hhardy> ah sorry 17:51 < adric> He skipped a few :) 17:51 <@hhardy> lfaraone, single sign on 17:51 <@hhardy> and adric rt next 17:51 < lfaraone> hhardy: Basically, there's OpenID, obviously. 17:51 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: single sign on 17:51 < lfaraone> There's OLPC-spesific SSO via kerberos/LDAP. 17:52 < lfaraone> And then there are various other proprietary techs. 17:52 < lfaraone> I'm not going to cover the latter, because I don't think that's somehting to be considered. 17:52 < lfaraone> With LDAP: OLPC can run password verification checks, it can be as secure as _we_ want. 17:54 < lfaraone> OpenID: Third party auth provider, they often have very strong authentication (myopenid for example has voice auth, verisign has one-time-keys via SMS) 17:54 < lfaraone> OpenID: We don't have to maintain the password system and deal with the email loop. 17:54 < lfaraone> Problems with OpenID: Double edged sword: Some providers provide little to no authentication. 17:55 < lfaraone> Any questions? 17:55 <@hhardy> http://openid.net/ 17:55 < dogi> hhardy: signing is done 17:55 <@hhardy> why do we need this? 17:55 <@hhardy> thanks dogi 17:56 <@hhardy> and, how much of this could be implemented using our own ssh keys? 17:56 < lfaraone> hhardy: People have asked for it, it reduces the burden on the user. 17:56 < adric> Please don't refer to openid as a provider? It's a way to pick who/where you want to provide login. 17:56 <@hhardy> how much burden is it to enter your pw once and have browser remember it? 17:56 < lfaraone> hhardy: ... 17:56 < adric> Also which signons are we talking about glomming together? 17:57 < lfaraone> adric: wiki, forum, trac 17:57 < lfaraone> (I'll work with the OSUL group afterwards) 17:57 < cjb> how do you get trac and mediawiki to use the same signon token? 17:57 < lfaraone> adric: I'm NOT saying we should do this on team or internal. 17:57 < dogi> i informed myself yesterday about openid ... and its possible to do it one ... so we dont need a provider ... 17:58 < lfaraone> cjb: You don't, the user just types in their "username" and is refered to their provider, who authenicates them (maybe via cookies) 17:58 < lfaraone> In addition, people who _don't_ want to use OpenID do not have to, current addons are just that, optional. 17:58 < cjb> so if I have the same password for trac and mediawiki, this doesn't really save me anythihg 17:59 < lfaraone> cjb: Correct. 17:59 < lfaraone> cjb: Eventually we'll have more wikis, and more forums. 17:59 < lfaraone> cjb: _sj- has already proposed a es wiki IIRC. 17:59 < lfaraone> cjb: and es.forums.laptop.org is soon to follow. 18:00 < lfaraone> cjb: Oh, and you don't have to have a separate registration for each of the sites. 18:00 < cjb> t desn 18:00 < cjb> oops 18:00 < lfaraone> hhardy: ssh keys would not be useful in a kerberos/ldap or openid context afaict. 18:00 < cjb> it doesn't bother me that I have a separate registration, because I use the same password :) 18:00 < adric> Am incorrect to characterize OID as an additional public-facing service to setup, support, and maintain, that would then make features available to other services? 18:01 < lfaraone> adric: Not nesisarrily. 18:01 < lfaraone> adric: You can choose to be a "consumer" and not a "provider" 18:01 <@hhardy> http://openid.net/get/ 18:01 < adric> You want to give folks using our services the option of using third-party authentication services, then? 18:02 < lfaraone> adric: Yes. 18:02 < adric> Ah. That strikes me as .. yeah, I don't liek the sound of it. 18:02 < dogi> no then is better to not use it ... 18:02 < lfaraone> adric: Wiki and trac are not _high security_ services. 18:03 < lfaraone> adric: Many other wikis that are _much_ larger than we are use it w/o a problem, such as wikitravel.org. 18:03 < adric> I'm skeptical enough of the code of wiki , trac, forums without opening them up to huge new vectors for XSS and other nonsense 18:03 < adric> Sure, and I wish them luck :) I've fooled with some OID stuff, and it's nifty. 18:03 < lfaraone> adric: How would this open up a XSS vector? 18:04 < lfaraone> adric: If it causes a problem, we can always disable it, but the risk is minimal IMHO. 18:04 < lfaraone> adric: Again, I'm not the first to ask for this. 18:04 < adric> I can see us leveraging it for SSO, IF we provide a auth provider for our users. Which would be damn cool, but exspensive. 18:04 <@hhardy> there are free providers at link I gave above 18:04 <@hhardy> incl verisign 18:04 < lfaraone> hhardy: That's what I use. 18:04 < adric> XSS, XMLRPC .. whichever ... I deal with a lot of web apps at work, and being made of software they all have flaws. 18:05 < adric> I'm not against it, not trying to veto or anything. 18:05 < lfaraone> hhardy: for 5USD, I got a hardware token that provides me with multi-factor authentication. 18:05 * lfaraone has to be going, food. 18:05 <@hhardy> lfaraone, I think there is not a consensus in favor of this now 18:05 < lfaraone> hhardy: Ok. 18:05 <@hhardy> openid is cool 18:05 <@hhardy> lfaraone, do you want to talk about your trac extension proposal? 18:06 < lfaraone> hhardy: uh, will this meeting be here in 30 minutes? 18:06 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: trac extension for connecting to upstream bugs 18:06 * lfaraone is really away now. 18:06 <@hhardy> lfaraone, hope not 18:06 <@hhardy> but chan is open 18:06 <@hhardy> we can defer this, put something on the public wiki page maybe? 18:06 < adric> You can always throw it up to the list and discuss at later meeting? 18:06 < adric> gmta 18:06 <@hhardy> or to list aye 18:07 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: RT 18:07 <@hhardy> adric state of RT? 18:07 < adric> Unchanged? 18:07 <@hhardy> we need to see about cloning the vserver on solar to get you a sandbox 18:07 < adric> I'd love that. 18:07 <@hhardy> Kim approves 18:08 <@hhardy> if you can look into what we would need to do adric and make plan 18:08 < adric> Sure, do I need to mail her the details, or ? 18:09 <@hhardy> you can cc her 18:09 < adric> Okay, I think it's in tickets already but I'll put something together. 18:10 <@hhardy> mstone suggests rtfm for vserver clone and look on freenode:#vserver for helps 18:10 <@hhardy> she reads my tickets 18:10 <@hhardy> just update there 18:10 < adric> kk 18:10 <@hhardy> you can admin cc: her if you want 18:10 < m_stone> adric: specifically, speak with dhozac or h. poetzl. 18:10 <@hhardy> ok anything further I overlooked? 18:11 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: new business 18:11 < skierpage> hhardy, I e-mailed some sysadmin list about upgrading the SMW wiki extension to 1.3, is this appropriate? 18:12 <@hhardy> skierpage: yes is appropriate, there's already tickets on this, will merge 18:13 <@hhardy> email me if you want rt access to the web interface 18:14 <@hhardy> ok guys, hungry, last call for this meeting 18:14 < skierpage> ? not sure what you mean. I would like to be in IRC as the update happens. And it's only medium priority IMO. 18:14 <@hhardy> theres a web interface to rt at rt.l.o 18:14 <@hhardy> those who dont have acess who want it, email me 18:15 <@hhardy> there's a wiki-gang in formation, isforinsects (seth@l.o) is contact 18:16 <@hhardy> I like sematic wiki, have very little time to do updates, most time isused doing 1st level support for windows users, purchasing, and firefighting 18:16 < adric> Good times. 18:16 <@hhardy> i-g is the tool to break out of this logjam hopefully 18:16 <@hhardy> so we can do cool stuff (tm) 18:16 < adric> :) 18:17 <@hhardy> if you guys want to do a FTF we might be able to get some support/funding from OLPC, can ask 18:17 <@hhardy> any interest? 18:17 < adric> Interest yes, but post G1G1? or amidst 18:17 <@hhardy> post 18:17 < adric> some noise about a con in Jan? 18:17 <@hhardy> well at least after 8.2 rollout 18:18 <@hhardy> yeah if it were together with OLPC/FUDcon maybe 18:18 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: FTF? 18:18 < lfaraone> bACK 18:18 < lfaraone> *Back 18:18 <@hhardy> gOOD 18:19 <@hhardy> ok time up, thanks for coming y'all 18:19 < adric> Yeah, need to see about getting time of or quitting before then :) 18:19 < lfaraone> hhardy: I was wondering if we could briefly revisit my trac ext? 18:19 <@hhardy> sure 18:20 -!- hhardy changed the topic of #olpc-admin to: Trac extension for upstream tickets 18:20 <@hhardy> go 18:20 < lfaraone> Ok. 18:20 < lfaraone> https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/TracPlugin 18:21 < lfaraone> It's a plugin that would allow better collaboration with downstream consumers (Read: Ubuntu). 18:21 < dogi> hhardy: FTF? 18:21 <@hhardy> FTF=face-to-face 18:21 < dogi> nono 18:21 <@hhardy> meeting in person 18:21 < lfaraone> It allows comments to be shared between bugs that occur in both trackers. 18:21 < dogi> there is a FTF open between us 18:21 <@hhardy> oh lol 18:22 < lfaraone> So if someone reports a bug in ubuntu, and the same bug is also in trac, we can sync the comments so that efforts do not have to be duplicated. 18:22 <@hhardy> is there something like this in fedora world? 18:22 < lfaraone> hhardy: Not yet afaict. 18:23 < lfaraone> hhardy: Fedora uses bugzilla, bugzilla is working on an extention like this iirc. 18:23 <@hhardy> where this could really help, there is a discussion today about whether to have a seperate sugarlabs trac 18:23 <@hhardy> would be nice if the two could coordinate 18:24 < lfaraone> hhardy: This is trac-launchpad only ATM, not trac-trac 18:24 <@hhardy> lfaraone, send me a ticket asking for this feature, and put in a similar request to sugarlabs maybe? 18:24 < lfaraone> hhardy: Does sugarlabs have trac yet? 18:24 <@hhardy> I don't think so it was proposed 18:25 < lfaraone> hhardy: Ok. 18:25 < lfaraone> Any objections to this extention? 18:25 < lfaraone> adric? cjb ? 18:25 < adric> sec 18:25 <@hhardy> simon, mel, marco, and gary martin proposed 2 days ago 18:26 < cjb> I think I object 18:26 < cjb> because we're never actually needed to merge Trac with Launchpad 18:26 < cjb> or linked any Trac bugs to Launchpad bugs 18:26 < cjb> what's the point? 18:26 < lfaraone> cjb: Yes, I have. 18:26 < lfaraone> cjb: And as the Sugar-on-ubuntu userbase grows, more people will report the bugs at Ubuntu. 18:27 < cjb> I'd prefer us to solve problems we have now 18:27 < cjb> rahter than problems we might have in the future 18:27 <@hhardy> well in that case this would be more pertaining to the proposed sugarlabs trac than ours 18:27 < lfaraone> hhardy: Yes, but I doubt that that trac will be created soon. 18:28 < lfaraone> cjb: example: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sugar/+bug/229057 18:28 <@hhardy> lfaraone, could you discuss this with mel, gary, marco and simon perhaps, see what they think? 18:28 < lfaraone> hhardy: Ok. 18:29 < lfaraone> In any case, this is a very small extention, the work to implement is minimal. 18:29 <@hhardy> ACTION ITEM: lfaraone to discuss trac and launchpad intgration with Mel, Gary, Marco, Simon and report back 18:29 < cjb> lfaraone: I don't really understand why you filed this on launchpad 18:29 < cjb> since it's clear that upstream is going to do the work 18:29 < lfaraone> cjb: heh. 18:29 * dogi uses launchpad 18:30 < lfaraone> cjb: Ubuntu has nice debugging tools that they attach to bug reports. 18:30 < cjb> then maybe it would be a better use of your time to work on nice debugging tools for the XO? :) 18:30 * cjb would love a "report bug" activity 18:30 < lfaraone> ... 18:30 < cjb> that recorded versions of everything 18:30 < lfaraone> cjb: No, you wouldn't. 18:30 < cjb> why not? 18:30 < lfaraone> cjb: When every single urugian child mashes the "submit to CJB!" button 18:31 < lfaraone> cjb: which I'm going to put in the center of the activity in blinking red :) 18:31 < cjb> .. or you could not do that 18:31 < cjb> I think I still want the activity 18:31 < cjb> the fact that we don't get bug reports from uruguay 18:31 < cjb> (because our Trac instance is not localized, primarily) 18:31 < cjb> is a bug in itself 18:32 < cjb> and should be fixed. a bug reporting activity would be a good solution. 18:32 < cjb> do you see? 18:32 < lfaraone> cjb: Yes. 18:32 -!- skierpage_ [~skierpage@76.14.64.22] has joined #olpc-admin 18:32 < dogi> cjb: a feedback activity? 18:32 < cjb> yes 18:32 < adric> ubuntu's bug report -> launchpad gadget is nifty ... 18:33 -!- skierpage [~skierpage@76.14.64.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:33 < adric> i dunno if i'd ever suggest a user use it, but uh 18:33 <@hhardy> who will enter a trac enhancement for bug reporting activity? 18:33 < lfaraone> adric: launchpad is ubuntu's bug report. 18:33 -!- skierpage_ is now known as skierpage 18:33 < adric> lfaraone: sorry, meant crash reporter -> launchpad 18:34 <@hhardy> ACTION ITEM: propose bug-report activity 18:34 <@hhardy> ok guys I'm going to end the meeting officially as this is dragging on but will lurk a bit longer 18:34 <@hhardy> thanks much for coming 18:34 <@hhardy> ---END--- 18:35 <@hhardy> I like the idea of a bug report activity, though a big red button might seem like a nice thing to push a lot for a 6-year old 18:35 < lfaraone> hhardy: I was kidding. 18:36 < lfaraone> hhardy: but again, we need some sort of s-g -staffed queue for those bugs, cause most of it will be crap. 18:36 <@hhardy> yea 18:37 < cjb> yep, probably don't want them to go into Trac directly 18:37 < cjb> but I'm intensely curious what they'll write about 18:37 < cjb> even if it's just "my XO is so slow I hate it", I'd like to keep count of how many of those we get 18:37 < cjb> etc 18:38 < dogi> ::) 18:38 <@hhardy> we might get a lot, if their XO wasnt too slow :) 18:38 < adric> It might be good to see some of that data, even if sifting and keeping it would be a chore 18:38 <@hhardy> you can get the flavor of it from looking at the help queue 18:39 < adric> Uh huh. *grimace* 18:39 < lfaraone> cjb: The thing is that Ubuntu users are just another "deployment", albiet admittedly not a priority one. Many teachers want to use sugar in US schools, with standard desktops. 18:39 < adric> Why no yuuuTuuub workin'? 18:40 <@hhardy> all the really funny ones cant be repeated here lol 18:40 < adric> Yeah .. there are some "gems" 18:40 < adric> Okay, I'm drifting out, mail/call if you need me, folks 18:41 <@hhardy> "I think you should get rid of the ears because it makes it look like the devil" 18:41 < cjb> lfaraone: and again, I think you decided on a solution and are now searching for a problem that it solves. Do things the other way around. 18:42 <@hhardy> the devil has green plastic ears? who knew! 18:42 < cjb> (the ubuntu "deployment" stuff might be more interesting for sugar labs than OLPC, so you should mention it to them) 18:42 < dogi> feedback with the build in webcam? 18:42 < cjb> heh 18:42 -!- Ian_Daniher [~it@69.61.230.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:43 <@hhardy> ok y'all heading home, cheeers... 18:43 < lfaraone> hhardy: where did you. 18:43 < dogi> ciao 18:43 < lfaraone> hhardy: see the trac discussion take place? 18:44 <@hhardy> it was a series of messages starting with simon 18:44 <@hhardy> on tech-team mailing list so I don't want to forward 18:44 <@hhardy> the 4 who made proposal could tell you tho the ones I named 18:45 <@hhardy> [Techteam] How to coordinate the OLPC QA team with the Sugarlabs QA team 18:45 <@hhardy> was the title 18:45 <@hhardy> Mel, Simon, Marco, Gary 18:46 < lfaraone> hhardy: I take it techteam is a NDA'd list? 18:46 < cjb> lfaraone: stronger than that; it's an OLPC-internal list. 18:46 <@hhardy> let me ask kim, sec 18:47 < lfaraone> hhardy: I take it they are all @laptop.org ? 18:47 <@hhardy> better if simon sends you his own message I think 18:47 <@hhardy> yes 18:47 < lfaraone> (the emails) 18:47 <@hhardy> it was a proposal coming from sugar-dev (bugsquad) meeting 18:48 <@hhardy> so better if you get the info from the sugar side if you can 18:49 < lfaraone> hhardy: I'll just mail them. 18:49 <@hhardy> cool 18:49 < lfaraone> (mel, marco, gary, simon) 18:52 < lfaraone> hhardy: gary@laptop is invalid 18:57 <@hhardy> hmmm I dont have it 18:58 <@hhardy> presumably he has a sugarlabs acct? 18:58 < lfaraone> not important, I guess. 18:59 <@hhardy> gary at garycmartin.com 18:59 <@hhardy> from google of a sugarlabs posting 19:00 <@hhardy> night all