OLPC:Volunteer Infrastructure Group/2008-10-07
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Agenda
17:22 < hhardy> Need secretary 17:22 < hhardy> Wiki and website scalability/mirroring -- deployments + G1G1 are coming! 17:22 < hhardy> download.l.o scalability/mirroring Google, archive.org others? 17:22 < hhardy> Lfaraone committee on single-signon options 17:22 < hhardy> SAGE Sysadmin Ethics Statements 17:22 < hhardy> GPG 17:22 < hhardy> State of rt rt instances for Adric and private 17:22 < hhardy> Big Sister oncall schedule Big Sister tuning Big Sister maintainer 17:22 < hhardy> new business
Need secretray
17:16 < lfaraone> ---- Start of Meeting ---- 17:16 < hhardy> oops I am not ops for some reason... 17:17 < lfaraone> ACTION ITEM: Give hhardy a raise 17:17 < lfaraone> (srsly, real meeting starts below) 17:17 < adric> lfaraone: Also, a dig at Linus for not making 2.7. And using git. there I'm done, 17:18 < lfaraone> TOPIC: Need secretary 17:18 -!- kimquirk [~kimquirk@can-olpc-nat.media.mit.edu] has joined #olpc-admin 17:19 < lfaraone> Anybody want that job? (secretary for those who just joined) 17:19 < dogi> what is the secretaries job involve? 17:19 < dogi> ups does 17:20 < lfaraone> dogi: Taking meeting minutes, which hhardy currently does AFAICT. 17:20 < hhardy> hmmm chanserv doesnt love me anymore 17:20 < lfaraone> dogi: Managing the calendar. 17:21 < lfaraone> hhardy: It dumped you for MemoServ. Long-distance relationships just don't work out :) 17:21 -!- gregdek [~gdk@nat-pool-rdu.redhat.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:21 < lfaraone> dogi: You up for it? 17:21 < dogi> :) 17:22 < hhardy> bah oh well I will fix it later, I should be auto-opped on this chan 17:22 < dogi> i think cause i m not native english speaker i m not that good for that .. 17:22 < hhardy> heres the agenda 17:22 < hhardy> ---START--- 17:22 < adric> dogi: you seem to do better than the Americans on help@ ;) 17:22 < hhardy> Agenda 17:22 < hhardy> Need secretary 17:22 < hhardy> Wiki and website scalability/mirroring -- deployments + G1G1 are coming! 17:22 < hhardy> download.l.o scalability/mirroring Google, archive.org others? 17:22 < hhardy> Lfaraone committee on single-signon options 17:22 < hhardy> SAGE Sysadmin Ethics Statements 17:22 < hhardy> GPG 17:22 < hhardy> State of rt rt instances for Adric and private 17:22 < hhardy> Big Sister oncall schedule Big Sister tuning Big Sister maintainer 17:22 < hhardy> new business 17:24 < hhardy> being secretary means at a minimum taking the meeting transcript, pulling out the action items, and making pretty using basic wiki markup like Seth, Mel and I have done with past minutes 17:26 < dogi> ok i ll try with the minutes this time ... ok? 17:26 < hhardy> sure 17:26 < hhardy> you can do last week too if yoyu like? 17:27 < hhardy> ACTION ITEM: Dogi to try preparing this week's minutes
wiki and website scalability
17:27 < hhardy> TOPIC: wiki and website scalability 17:27 < dogi> hhardy: i dont have the logs of that 17:27 < hhardy> last week Monday and Tuesday the wiki had 22,000 unique visitors from Uruguay 17:28 < hhardy> I will email the whole logfile if thats ok? 17:28 < kimquirk> hhardy: how do we all get the graphs of these visitors? 17:28 < dogi> ok 17:28 < hhardy> dogi I dont have your email 17:29 < dogi> stefan@untehauser.name 17:29 < dogi> ups 17:29 < hhardy> that was from google analytics from isforinsects 17:29 < hhardy> .name? 17:29 < kimquirk> isforinsects: can you post the link? 17:29 < dogi> stefan@unterhauser.name 17:29 < dogi> stefan@unterhauser.name 17:30 < lfaraone> hhardy: Well, has any work been done on Squid or other cache servers? 17:30 < hhardy> isforinsects: ping 17:30 < hhardy> yes squid reverse proxy was set up on weka 17:30 < isforinsects> woah... 17:30 < hhardy> the load average went down from 177 to 2 then 17:30 < dogi> hui 17:30 < adric> hhardy: unterhauser.name MX is 66.92.78.228 17:30 < isforinsects> kimquirk, analytics.google.com if you give me a google account I can give you access. 17:31 < kimquirk> kim.quirk@gmail.com 17:31 < kimquirk> (is that what you need?0 17:31 < lfaraone> isforinsects: (!meeting) btw tht isn't working for me either 17:31 < isforinsects> Most of the week after the spike it appears that we've lost all of UY's hits 17:31 < adric> Lost or absorbed? 17:31 < isforinsects> ffm246? 17:31 < lfaraone> isforinsects: ( I am able to go to the account, but I see nothing there) 17:32 < hhardy> dogi: sent 17:32 < isforinsects> lfaraone, try now 17:32 < isforinsects> adric, ? 17:32 < hhardy> they are going to the proxy now? 17:32 < cjl> works for me 17:32 < lfaraone> isforinsects: No Profiles found. 17:33 < lfaraone> isforinsects: try removing and readding ffm246 at gmail dot com 17:33 < lfaraone> isforinsects: got it 17:33 * adric shrugs, adricnet@gmail 17:34 < lfaraone> Woah, half of our hits were from uruguy 17:34 < lfaraone> uruguay* 17:34 < hhardy> yeah it was a big surge, the previous week they had a week off 17:35 < hhardy> when they returned the went on a rampage for more activities 17:35 < hhardy> so... 17:35 < cjl> yes, but very low pages/visit count. They click the links on Browse and then drop (usually) 17:35 < hhardy> we need to think about a scalable distributed infrastructure for upcoming deployments and particularly G1G1 17:36 < isforinsects> adric, added 17:37 < cjl> Why not ask people who really think deeply about such stuff (e.g. google) 17:37 < hhardy> cscott has investigated how the main english wiki is set up 17:37 < hhardy> we will ask him to talk to us next week, he is at the gnome thing according to richard 17:38 < adric> Oh, that's pretty data .. mmm 17:38 < hhardy> "some gnome conference" 17:38 < hhardy> since google is on our board and they have fat pipes with lot of dark fiber that makes sense 17:39 < hhardy> php is the main slowdown factor cscott says wikipedia has 140 dedicated pvp servers 17:39 < adric> CDN would be helpful for static content / cacheable pages 17:39 < lfaraone> hhardy: we can use coral's free cdn service... 17:40 < hhardy> ACTION ITEM: investigate CDN networks, such as coral 17:40 < hhardy> we also shall look into archive.org 17:40 < hhardy> ACTION ITEM: ask SJ about setting up a VIG archive.org acct 17:40 < cjl> What sort fo traffic do big distros handle? 17:41 < hhardy> see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Statistics 17:41 < cjl> If it's all PHP, the mediawiki folks may have the only answers tha are directly relevant, but there are others that have some larger infrastructure (more users) than OLPC. 17:42 < hhardy> english wikipedia is in the top 20 alexa and neilson sites worldwide 17:42 < hhardy> so we arent probably going to exceed them 17:42 < adric> Anyway to give more visitors static (cached) pages is going to be a big win, since PHP/database is so much slower 17:42 < hhardy> lfaraone had a proposal for setting up and seeding torrents 17:43 < cjl> wouldn't think so, just suggesting tha others besdies mediawiki may have other sorts of solutions (for growing up oor). 17:43 < hhardy> which is a more efficient delivery method that static websites 17:43 < hhardy> *than 17:43 < adric> delivery of .. what would we torrent out? 17:43 < lfaraone> adric: OS images. 17:43 < hhardy> activities potentially 17:43 < dogi> hhardy: arrived 17:43 < hhardy> cool 17:43 < adric> Oh yes, please, for the OS images. 17:43 < lfaraone> hhardy: only big ones... 17:43 < lfaraone> hhardy: like the wikipedia one. 17:44 < adric> Activities? Yeah, maybe content packs and other big files 17:44 < hhardy> such as wikipedia activity 17:44 < adric> agree. 17:44 < lfaraone> hhardy: oh, IDEA: get a torrent client built into browse... 17:44 < hhardy> lfaraone: good 17:44 < lfaraone> I can propose taht for 9.1, and then it will be a seamless download... 17:44 < cjl> vast majority of the UY hits are Activities page 17:44 < adric> so thousands of the UY machines have daily internet access? 17:44 < cjl> 237K of 263K 17:45 < adric> If so that's awesome. 17:45 < lfaraone> hhardy: basically it's not that hard to set up a torrent server or even your own tracker. 17:45 < lfaraone> hhardy: although you will have to be seeding. 17:45 < adric> would it be better to torrent them to the school server? 17:45 < hhardy> lfaraone: one of your solutions looking for a problem has found a problem, grats :) 17:45 < dogi> +1 17:46 < lfaraone> hhardy: welcome! :) 17:46 < cjl> The thing about it is tha these are not "real hits". They are just exploratory clicks on the Actvbities link on Browse front page (for hte most part. 17:46 < lfaraone> adric: maybe... but that'd be a bittorrent extention, after we get the protocol implemented. 17:47 < hhardy> lfaraone: ACTION ITEM: publish a plan for including torrent capability in browse, and a backend to provide large images via torrent 17:47 < lfaraone> cjl: that should be fixed with XS + squid 17:47 < hhardy> that ok? 17:47 < cjl> Other than the "bringing server ot it's knees" thing, this not a "real" problem. 17:47 < lfaraone> hhardy: yes. but it'll have to wait a few days. 17:47 < hhardy> in 2 weeks? 17:48 < lfaraone> hhardy: yes, I should be able to have it ready by then. 17:48 < hhardy> yeah well the pringing the server to its knees is not good on pedal because that has our email, mailman and most of the websites 17:48 < cjl> hhardy: granted 17:49 < lfaraone> hhardy: ah, _that's_ why my email has been so late in arriving through l.o... :) 17:49 < hhardy> send me full headers of "slow" email please 17:49 < hhardy> I have the postfix set to notify me of delayed mail 17:49 < hhardy> it hardly ever fesses up 17:49 < hhardy> but I still hear scattered reports of slow mail 17:49 < lfaraone> hhardy: sure. sometimes I get mail a day later. 17:50 < cjl> I'm just saying that the emphasis on tech/infrastructure solutions should not assume that these really "matter" as most are just random click-throughs.. 17:50 < lfaraone> hhardy: but it's been better recently. 17:50 < hhardy> uruguay matters and to an extent, g1g1 matters 17:50 < hhardy> oh in terms of mail 17:50 < lfaraone> hhardy: usually it's a short while. 17:50 < hhardy> well it is a concern for some of the senior management here so if we can identify the issue its a priority for me 17:51 < lfaraone> hhardy: mail, or wiki? 17:51 < cjl> hhardy: Of course UY matters, but I am inferring from the data that these are random clickthroughs, not real intentional requests for new activity page views. 17:51 < hhardy> both but I meant mail 17:51 < hhardy> sorry offtopic 17:51 < hhardy> as far as uruguay, seems like kids exploring from the default links on browse 17:52 < hhardy> btw build 8.2 is ready so please test it 17:52 < cjl> hhardy: exactly 17:52 < lfaraone> hhardy: we can make it so that a bit of url-fu is passed along to the wiki when it is from the browse page... 17:52 < lfaraone> hhardy: that sends it off to a cache server... 17:52 < hhardy> that is possible, and interesting 17:52 < cjl> I'd have to look, but I bet "Activities" got translated as something intersting to kids like "Juegos". 17:53 < hhardy> browse could report the sku of the machine for instance, but people might think that is spyware-like 17:53 < lfaraone> hhardy: no, that's creepy. 17:54 < hhardy> yeah its a fine line 17:54 < hhardy> if we are upfront about what we are doing we might get beaten up but it reduces the creep factor 17:54 < lfaraone> hhardy: I mean something like http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Foo?source=homepage&language=es_AR 17:54 < adric> http_referrer, aye 17:55 < cjl> DOes this work for you guys 17:55 < cjl> https://www.google.com/analytics/reporting/map_detail?id=10025922&pdr=20080906-20081006&cmp=average&rpt=GeoMapReport&d1=UY&segkey=request_uri_1&mdet=COUNTRY&seg=1#lts=1223415858997 17:55 < lfaraone> adric: does that work for references from file:/// pseuo-protocol? 17:55 < cjl> That shows Uruguay broken down by landing page. 17:55 < adric> lfaraone: could, sure 17:56 < cjl> 238K of total 263K hits land on Activities. 17:56 < lfaraone> adric: google doesn't seem to have that data: https://www.google.com/analytics/reporting/referring_sources?id=10025922&pdr=20081007-20081007&cmp=average&trows=10&gdfmt=nth_week#lts=1223416527797 17:56 < kimquirk> hhardy: did we discuss vservers on Grinch and Solar for RT instances? 17:57 < hhardy> no thats later in agenda lets move on 17:57 < hhardy> lfaraone: do you want to say anything more abotu single-signon? 17:57 -!- adric_ [~adric@adsl-160-67-156.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #olpc-admin 17:58 < hhardy> assume he is tied up 17:58 < cjl> One last thing, remember how important Activities page is to auto-update feature in any plans.
SAGE
17:58 < hhardy> send in your gpg signed agreement to follow the SAGE ethics code pls 17:58 < hhardy> prefer to the olpc-sysadmin list, or to me if privacy/security is an issue 17:59 < adric_> oops. here 17:59 < lfaraone> hhardy: back. 17:59 < hhardy> the current situation of using a publically editable wiki page to provide the activities for the updater is... rube goldbergish? 17:59 < hhardy> and not so secure? 17:59 < dogi> hhardy: am i ok? 17:59 < lfaraone> hhardy: not really, other than I still think it's useful, but whatever. 17:59 < lfaraone> hhardy: yes, it is very scary. 17:59 < lfaraone> hhardy: anybody can change a URL. 18:00 < lfaraone> hhardy: Has anybody worked on converting mozilla Addons' site? 18:00 < hhardy> lfaraone: not so far as I know 18:00 < hhardy> dogi: are you ok? as far as I know... 18:00 < cjl> hhardy: no argument there, just point out that it needs to be factored in (as reality for nowa). 18:00 < dogi> thx 18:00 < dogi> with the sage signing stuff 18:01 < cjl> hhardy: Is pdf scan of wet-signed good for you? Used PGP in '92 when I was on the cypherpunks list, but I've been all X-509 since. 18:01 < hhardy> ah ok thanks 18:01 < hhardy> yes dogi is: OK 18:01 < hhardy> sure 18:01 < hhardy> I am encouraging the use of gpg, we can all put out keys on the MIT server 18:01 < hhardy> http://pgp.mit.edu 18:02 < adric_> cjl; recent GPG can use x509 ;) 18:02 < hhardy> s/out/our/ 18:02 * lfaraone is afk. 18:02 < hhardy> for cryptographic reasons, it is good to use a different key for signing and for encrypting, btw 18:03 < cjl> Will look int ogenerating PKI pair again, old ones long gone into bit rot. 18:03 < hhardy> anyway we can have a signing party some time and sign each others keys 18:03 < dogi> :) 18:04 < hhardy> I was thinking if we can build some momentum it might be nice to do a face to face maybe in the winter or so 18:04 < cjl> gnu{-: used to host the c-punks list on toad.com IIRC. 18:04 < hhardy> how many people would be willing/able to come up to Boston sometime? 18:04 -!- adric [~adric@adsl-158-6-244.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:05 -!- adric_ [~adric@adsl-160-67-156.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: *bampf*] 18:05 -!- adric [~adric@adsl-160-67-156.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #olpc-admin 18:05 < hhardy> http://www.cypherpunks.to/list/ 18:05 < hhardy> adric: you back? 18:05 < adric> Still thinking of FudCon, in Jan ? 18:06 < hhardy> thats a possible 18:06 < cjl> hhardy: some possibility of my drifting up to Boston (from NJ), but it is likely to be on short notice and at the mercy of someone else's schedule. 18:06 * adric is a Thawte and CACert Notary, if that's useful. 18:06 < hhardy> kimquirk was reminding me we need to set up a copy of the rt instance for adric's team to use as a sandbox 18:06 < hhardy> and I need to set up one for internal use on... an itnernal machine 18:07 < kimquirk> m_stone: are you the vserver expert? 18:07 < hhardy> mstone: ping 18:07 < hhardy> m_stone: ping 18:07 < kimquirk> m_stone: we are thinking of RT instances that match the one we have today... a vserver on solar (I believe 18:08 < kimquirk> any other vserver experts? 18:08 < kimquirk> hhardy: I'll send out an email 18:08 < hhardy> http://linux-vserver.org/HowtoCloneVserver 18:09 < hhardy> I've invited Ed and the engineering folks many times, I need to bake cookies or something to encourage them 18:09 < hhardy> to this mtng 18:09 < hhardy> actually Ed I have said it maybe 1 or 2 times 18:10 < kimquirk> he said he will try to make it next week. he was feeling ill and left early 18:10 < hhardy> maybe with 8.2 ou the door this will be more possible 18:10 < hhardy> ok 18:10 < kimquirk> i think so. 18:10 < hhardy> adric do you have time this week to take a crack at cloinigng the rt vserver with me? 18:11 < adric> hhardy: I think so, yeah .. daytime or nighttime ? 18:11 < hhardy> morning, night or weekend 18:11 < hhardy> afternoons are my rush time 18:11 < hhardy> we have monday off 18:12 < hhardy> I'm officially not working but might to some admin for fun lol 18:12 < adric> heh, ok. I should be in an office tomorrow day, and then available later 18:12 < hhardy> adric email me or grab me on this chan and let's try to get this done 18:13 < hhardy> ok maybe I will timeshift tomorrow and take some evening time 18:13 < adric> ACTION ITEM: clone rt on solar.
Big Sister
18:13 < hhardy> calling again for a Big Sister maintainer 18:13 < hhardy> ok we will leave that one open 18:14 < hhardy> any new business? 18:14 < hhardy> or anything missed? 18:14 < cjl> any further discussion about spam? 18:14 < adric> I meant to mail out some thoughts on RT and email and spam. Will try and do that this week 18:14 < hhardy> mb has been working on the issue and specifically blacklisting the worst offenders 18:15 < cjl> I've personally rejected over 2000 spam messages from RT, thus the curiousity. 18:15 < hhardy> I gave him an rt account so I can add him to tickets that are of interest to him 18:15 < hhardy> please dont you all start assigning him things he might be annoyed 18:15 < adric> The grail is a system that feedsback spam tagging from RT back to the cuda. 18:15 < hhardy> yes 18:16 < hhardy> something automatic would be a godsend 18:16 < cjl> From what I've seen nothing with the [BULK] tag is ever worth keeping. 18:16 < adric> nt entirely true, sadly 18:16 < adric> I have seen a few false negs. 18:17 < cjl> That's the challenge with hand te3aking the stringencies. 18:17 < hhardy> I got a great spam from NASA Tech Briefs to which I do subscribe 18:17 < adric> Anyway, two-pronged, or three for now, with unification the goal? 18:17 < adric> I will try and exlain in mail / wiki this week 18:17 < hhardy> stop spam, by any means necessary :) (almost any means) 18:17 < adric> Wait, can we kill spammers? 18:17 * cjl still holding up the manual despamming with a boyscout knife end (for now) 18:17 < hhardy> *almost lol 18:18 < adric> Thanks for that cjl, I get in a little oof that with my spork some days. 18:18 < hhardy> best spam ever: "Don't miss "The Power of Beryllium Materials" complimentary webinar" 18:18 < adric> wow. 18:19 < adric> you shouls send tht on to the writers of The Big Bag Theory sitcom 18:19 < adric> bong 18:19 < adric> bang 18:19 < cjl> There has been a lot ot totally random Russian spam recently. (I ususally check with google) 18:19 < hhardy> lol... moving right along... anything further? 18:19 < adric> there's always been a lot of russian business offers ;) 18:19 < cjl> no, reaallllly random 18:20 < hhardy> That is all...
Afterhour
18:20 < hhardy> ---END--- 18:20 < hhardy> thanks all for coming 18:20 < dogi> ciao 18:20 < hhardy> I am going to see about restoring my ops on this chan, is anyone who will watch the chan who wants ops? 18:21 < adric> er, okay? 18:21 < adric> If it will help. I try to keep a window open in here. 18:21 < hhardy> people try to beat baysian filters using markov chaining... kind of funny 18:21 < hhardy> random arms race 18:21 < adric> hehe 18:22 < cjl> Actually, on the distinction between spam and "unsolicited commercial e-mail" that is something we might want to think about. There is spam that you definitely want feeding into whatever black list or heuristic you use and then there is stuff that falls a little short of needing that kind of hammer. 18:24 < adric> well ... If management wants to play it that way, we can try. 18:24 < hhardy> there's never going to be a clear line between "I never want to see this", "I might want to see this" and "I always want to see this" as it is a continuum 18:24 < adric> Which categoriy is solicitation for donatio of laptops to $worthycause ? 18:24 < adric> :) 18:24 < cjl> It is really hard to tell if all the invitations to join various "friending" opportunities are people who are just clueless, or if it is some social engineering scheme with link traps 18:25 < hhardy> yea 18:25 < adric> agree 18:25 < cjl> I have replyied toi a few (legit) newsletters tha just should be going to RT handled address wit hUNSUBSCRIBE msgs. 18:26 < hhardy> I generally try to follow Postel's Law 18:26 < adric> Postel's law, or incoming mail .. hmm ... 18:27 < adric> Bah, typing. SO is waiting, i shall have to dicuss this fascinating point of security philosophy with you gentlemen (and kim) later :D 18:27 < hhardy> RFC 793: TCP implementations will follow a general principle of robustness: be conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you accept from others. 18:27 < hhardy> ok cul8r 18:28 < adric> accept sure, and immediatey roundfile, maybe .. 18:28 < adric> night ! 18:28 < hhardy> including significant others :) 18:28 -!- adric [~adric@adsl-160-67-156.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: adric] 18:29 < hhardy> heading out night all 18:37 -!- mode/#olpc-admin [+o hhardy] by ChanServ 18:39 -!- cjl [0c2c32f8@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 18:43 -!- kimquirk [~kimquirk@can-olpc-nat.media.mit.edu] has left #olpc-admin [] 18:44 -!- isforinsects [~isforinse@140.247.243.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:47 <@hhardy> adric: you will have to register on oftc before I can give you master on the chan 18:49 <@hhardy> adric: /msg Nickserv register <password> <email> 18:57 < dogi> hhardy: can u send me to log of this meeting ... my chatclient was not in logging mode :P 19:03 -!- dogi [~dogi@dsl092-078-228.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:03 -!- dogi [~dogi@dsl092-078-228.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #olpc-admin 19:21 <@hhardy> dogi ok