Talk:OLPC India

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NIce to have these laptops with indian kids

Digital Literacy in India

It is a delight to see this initiative. While India is a superb software production center, digital literacy is concentrated mainly on the urban centers. Much of the rural places, where two-thirds of the population resides is almost zero in this area. We have been trying to create a rural digital initiative that will be focused on 1 million villages in India within a decade, in the context of an integrated school initiative. Hardware such as this can make this a reality!

Charles Dhanaraj Gyan Jyoti Vilas (Enlightenment from Learning) An initiative in the making (Currently I am an associate professor of management at Kelley Business School, Indiana University)

Girish R V

Localization in india is going to a big problem. Most prominent language is hindi, but there are a lot of states here which have other native languages( Tamil, Malayalam, oriya, telungu, Marathi, .. to name a few).

The extent to which English is used in India

English is one of the official languages of India, could you possibly provide some information as to what extent English is used in India please?

India has MORE language diversity than Europe. Even though English is used as the language of the educated classes to facilitate communication amongst different regions, the vast majority of India's one billion people do not know English at all or else they vaguely remember a bit from their high-school lessons.
Therefore, English is an essential component of the OLPC India project in order to give children the possibility of higher education. On the other hand, English is not sufficient because the majority of children will be unable to do anything with it until after several years of education.

In India, there are states with high and low literacy stages. The states like Kerala and goa are high in literacy rates and the peoples can speak and learn in english. Tamil Nadu and Bihar are the examples of states with low literacy rates.

I know little about India. The postage stamps have text in Hindi and English. People from India in situations such as television interviews seem to speak English. I have had a perception, which I am now begining to think was quite wrong, that English is spoken throughout India by everybody, as the common language of the country. In what language are school subjects such as physics and history taught please?

It's hard to get good statistics on this. For a 2003 article which cites data from 1994, see http://www.languageinindia.com/may2003/annika.html#chapter5 where it states that at that time around 4% of the people of India used English as their first language. I'd expect that if this percentage was correct then, it's probably fairly similar today. A much larger percentage of the people of India use English as a second language, of course. The crucial thing to remember about India is that it has no majority language. Only about 30% of the population speaks Hindi as a first language, and in many Indian states there is little desire to learn Hindi. In the 1950 Constitution, it was planned to phase out the use of English, but that has ceased to seem likely. To quote the CIA World factbook, from http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/in.html "English enjoys associate status but is the most important language for national, political, and commercial communication; Hindi is the national language and primary tongue of 30% of the people; there are 14 other official languages: Bengali, Telugu, Marathi, Tamil, Urdu, Gujarati, Malayalam, Kannada, Oriya, Punjabi, Assamese, Kashmiri, Sindhi, and Sanskrit; Hindustani is a popular variant of Hindi/Urdu spoken widely throughout northern India but is not an official language."

There are 20 official languages in the EU. According to Wikipedia there are 21 official languages in India, 4 more important ones, and 13 others with over 5 million speakers.

I'm an American who's never been to India, but my impression is that virtually any person in India who has graduated from secondary school will have some knowledge of English, and nearly all college graduates will know it quite well, but that in the villages of India, children will speak the local language. --Chris Mullin christmullinster@gmail.com

My views on OLPC project

Hi OLPC project members, I wanted to express my feedback on the OLPC project. Here are my observations:

a) What is your view on the Laptop ?

Ans.)The idea of a $100 laptop is great. The laptop might have the potential to complete the objective of 'One Laptop Per Child.' I hope it will be a success. But, have a look at this : http://shopping.rediff.com/shop/productdisplay.jsp?prrfnbr=10049568&source=browse&frompg=_shopping_home_leftnavi A 'laptop' for children costing only $7.

That is the price for remaindered or unsold stock. The Manufacturers retail price for these toys in India is 950 rupees which is about $20.70, almost 3 times the price that you quote.

>> Sir, I think that the gentlemen selling the 'laptop' for $7 might still be making profit, after sales tax, duties, and hosting charges. If this is the case, we can only guess the manufacturing cost of the laptop (possibly Made in China).

Though it lacks the interconnectivity features,

This is a big problem for an educational device that is to be used in a school. No connectivity means no new books, no information sharing.

... does not run linux, no wifi, fixed content, perhaps a very short life span,

The lifespan is also key. For only 5 times the cost the OLPC will deliver a unit that will last more than 5 times longer than this toy and which has innovative interconnectivity options like the extended-range low-power wifi with its own CPU, and the audio-input that can be used for scientific sensors.

...but still, for 7$ we have a laptop with static course content, a flat screen, keyboard and portability. The OLPC looks great in all respect, but still it gets beaten on price.

This is the fallacy of the used car salesman and the discount warehouse. In fact the OLPC wins on price. The OLPC can be delivered in very large quantities and the units are very durable because of an innovative design that removes the most common points of failure in traditional laptops. The OLPC's cost per year of use is the key measure. No toy manufacturer can do better.

It might be hard to convince states to invest in such projects, because of low finances of the developing countries, when you have a competitor with much cheaper price. I am not being negative, just critical. Perhaps, it might help the OLPC project to get one of those, and to find out how do these people make the things so cheap. Secondly, I think that this laptop will promote computer literacy and open-source vision in the countries.

b) What type of features do you suggest should be added considering the Indian community as a larger picture ?

Ans.) 1)I think the major feature should be translator software. The need and effort in preparing course material in all the languages in the world is surely infeasible, takes time, and might make the material redundant, unless there is a dedicated group of volunteer or employees working behind the project. The translator might be integrated in the core, allowing even people speaking different communicate via laptop when they meet each other. It could be possible to ship the laptop with region specific translator. If two people of different regions, not having translator for each other's language, the translator must automatically broadcast in English, which other person's software can convert it his own language.

There is no such thing as translator software. I personally speak 6 languages. Most recently I learned Russian over a period of 3 years. I frequently used machine translators to help me read Russian websites but they often produced bad translations. I would have stopped using them but I noticed that the real value was that if I read a Russian paragraph, then the English machine translation, and then the Russian paragraph a second time, I was able to understand almost all of the paragraph. The English translation was usually incomprehensible but it did somehow help me improve my Russian reading ability. However, this is a highly technical detail which would be lost on most teachers. The end result is that giving kids a machine translator would just confuse and frustrate them.

>> Frankly Sir, I agree with you that machine translation is horrible. But sir, what I thought was that many of the developing countries (includin India) already has a translation software. Though the reliance on these software will not be good, but in early stages of learning the english language, it might be good.

2) I have seen the sugar interface. If the laptop is targeting small children too, it should be more attractive, with vibrant colours, bigger text, animations etc. These fancy features can be disabled when a child grows.

And if Sugar is skinnable then the kids themselves can determine how they like their interface. There is no need to force them into blinky flashing colors that do not further their education.

c) What type of software do you suggest can help in establishing the vision wrt India?

Ans.) 1)Is it possible to ship OLPC with flash player. If yes, it would be great. It would allow courseware developers to post interactive courseware for children. Obviously, flash is not an open source software, but player would definitely help to play the existing educational content available on the internet.

The OLPC ships with SVG support. SVG can do much of what Flash does. In addition the OLPC supports Python and Javascript, both of which can be used to add interactive features. There is no need to add commercial software that duplicates the function of the included open-source software.

>> Sorry Sir, I overlooked the flash to SWG converter. It is equally good. Perhaps such a software integerated with the viewer will help.

Perhaps it might be possible to develop an interactive animation software for Linux, so that anyone can create content for the OLPC. The education with animation will make the things more interesting and easier, since these require less memory than video files.

That is a good idea. Volunteers, please step forward.

2)I think that the text-to-speech will also help the project very greatly. As it has been discussed many times in the wiki, that there is a shortage of electricity in the developing countries. I think it would greatly strain the eyes of the children if they try to read under low light conditions, like in the night.

The OLPC generates its own light for reading. It can also be fitted with a USB-powered reading lamp.

So it would help if they can just hear the content, rather than viewing it. It might also save some power, though with the new screen design, I am not sure of it. It would also help the parents, who might be illiterate, to gain some knowledge. So, it can be a family learning exercise. And of course, text will occupy less disk space than sound clips. But care should be taken to make the software speak in the local accent (and perhaps, coupled with translator, might speak an English book in the regional language). Secondly, it should be possible to fast forward, rewind, and pause the speech, the flexibility that is there in media players, perhaps with the help of some special external buttons. 3) Using text to speech, it might be possible for laptop to collect the news, announcements, warnings etc. when it is in school, connected to net. These can be converted to speech and broadcasted when at home. Perhaps, that way, parents themselves will encourage the children to open their laptop so that they can hear the news.

On the other hand, it might be more efficient to set up radio stations to broadcast news and distribute wind-up radios. In fact, there are few areas of the world where there is no national radio news available.

4) Since the laptop might come with Firefox, I have seen software at website www.ajaxlaunch.com which can run directly off the browser, and require no installation. Since the disk-space is so limited, why not run additional software that way?

Ajax is just a fancy word for Javascript applications which run over the Internet connection. Since the OLPC will not have Internet and will not be always connected, it makes more sense to just write plain Javascript applications that function locally. However, many Ajax libraries can be used (sometimes with modifications) to build such Javascript applications.

>> Sir, would it be possible to use another OLPC system (for example, teacher's) to act as a server for ajax applications?

d) What type of content should be developed that can help Indian students ?

Ans.)I think that educational content is plentifully available in India. Many companies are working in this regard. They have full set of courseware developed for students. Perhaps, Govt. can make an agreement with them for the courseware. At micro-level, I think that the teacher himself can make the best courseware. Give them a really easy-to-use software, that allows them to make animation, slides and other stuff, to be distributed in the classroom. It should be possible to make software that can be used to make courseware, and can be easier to operate than word, powerpoint, flash and other professional software, because these software has options that only a professional uses, and are not required by other people. Just that, the software should have an easy learning curve.

Abiword is being ported to the OLPC. Perhaps this could be the core of such a system? In addition, there are Python-based Wikis like Wikidpad that can run on the OLPC.

Secondly, the Japanese comic might not be as attractive to Indian students than the Indian stories. The content should be localized, and perhaps developed locally. What about the tutorials to use the laptop itself? I think that, apart form education-centric content, there should be content that enhance the skills of children (or even their parents). Courseware related to IT education, science, learning instruments, vocational and hobby-oriented programs, should be encouraged.

e) Any hardware specification that you wish should be added ?

Ans.)I was thinking of a system in which the operating system, factory configuration, and preloaded software could be store on one, read-only hard drive (flash memory, in your case), acting just like bios with an operating system in it; and user configuration, documents, even OS update in other drive (read-write). To access the read-only memory, one might have to take out the card and insert into a separate card reader. There should be a reset button outside, pressing which we might be able to clean the user accessible drive, and revert the laptop to original configuration, just like palm handheld, or digital diaries. This might be useful, because in remote areas, the repairman might not be available, and if someone accidentally changed an important configuration, got attacked by a virus, or received a faulty OS update, or the PC crashes by a bug, he can press the reset button to erase the flash, so that the laptop gets reverted to the factory-made configuration. I think this can solve major technical support problems.

Have you read the Hardware specification for the OLPC? It sounds like you are reinventing the wheel.

>> Sir, I read the Hardware specification page again. I guess I missed the details about the LinuxBIOS earlier. Though I am yet to find a screenshot of the BIOS, the idea which I suggested was, I believe, a bit different from it. I suggested running the *Full OS* with GUI, essential software which you would like to include, hardware support etc. from a read-only drive. Only the user data, like changes in the desktop environment, documents, new softwares etc. can be kept on separate read-writable drive. And as you are using flash memory, wouldn't it be possible to format the user-accessible drive by pressing an external button without even booting up the laptop (considering that the laptop, for some reason, is not booting up). It would be like how we restore the image from a previous backup, only that the backup would be factory configuration of the laptop, and I believe that it would remove the need for technitians to a great extent. I have seen the knoppix run off the live CD. It is something like that. The user can change the configuration, which can be saved in his hard drive, and removed if you want totally fresh environment. I am extremely sorry if I misunderstood the existing features of the laptop, but I think that once you format the flash, you will have to reinstall the linux. If I am right, the above idea will solve your problem.

f) What do you suggest for solving the development issues?

Ans.)The first thing that comes to my mind is that-Why python? There might be more developers of C++ in the world. It is a standard language and is taught all over the world in schools and colleges. Is it not possible to include gcc compiler? That way, the already existing programs could be utilized without much modifications. Anyway, python might be having some advantages that I am overlooking, perhaps ability to make GUI based programs?

Or perhaps the ability to make programs quicker and the ability to use less storage for program code, especially when only .pyc files are in the package.

g)Server Side Solutions

Ans.)I think that the idea of the software running off the browser, like in www.ajaxlaunch.com is a feasible server-side solution. Perhaps the applications can run off the teacher's (more capable) notebook, since the internet connectivity might not be continuous in remote areas. The applications work perfectly on 64 MB ram, so I think that these might run quite well in 128 MB ram of OLPC.

h) What ideas in each category i.e. 

   a) Software
   b) Hardware
   c) Education
   d) Others

can help the vision of the project?

Ans.)Please refer to the earlier entries.

i) While ultimately, the work on curricula will be done by the ministries of education , there are several efforts underway to explore some of the education potential from this project. Could you hint someway to scale up the education potential from this project?

Ans.)The best thing that this laptop will do is decrease the dependence of people on closed source software, and groom up children in open-source environment from early childhood. This will provide a shot in the arm for open-source movement, and will develop man-power for it. The laptop could itself be an excellent source of information and practice for students appearing for exams for higher studies, like SAT, IITJEE, CEE etc. In villages, it is seen that the awareness and resources for students about higher studies is very limited, though the same is not true about the quality of brains. This program could increase the use manifold, where some volunteer teachers (perhaps professor from universities) can give them instructions, solve their queries, and give them exercises.

j) What are the different types of Open Source Software used in India apart from 

   * GNU/Linux system with Linux Kernel with JFFS
   * Mozilla Firefox
   * Abiword and Gnumeric
   * Many GNOME libraries (although not the entire gnome project) including:
         o GTK+
         o Pango
   * Evince?

Ans.) I use SCILAB, AVRGCC/WINAVR, XINE, CYGWIN and GIMP, and some other tools bundled with Knoppix Live CD distribution.

I hope that my feedback might help your mission. I wish you success in your endeavors.

Regards,

Kartik Joshi

India


Is this the only thing that should be looked into???

Well i suppose that providing a laptop to every child in the world and more importantly to every child in the developing country is not the solution we are looking at.Well the development of any country nowadays depends a lot on the technological advancements and this is surely a way to achieve that.but i suppose giving a laptop to an ignorant and illiterate child is the same as giving him a toy to play and throw and nothing more. what i mean to say is that i think we should also teach them about the uses and general usage of the computers which they lack till now.for this providing the entire place with a learning setup where there would be an instructor to teach them and a couple of laptops for hands on experience for start would be helpful. i think simultaneously we should target making them technologically literate (as i would call them) would be nice idea.this would ensure tapping the talent of fast learners in a particular society as well as improving the sales of the laptop and simultaneously help in better usage as well. _____________________________________________________________________ Parampreet INDIA

Someone has so rightly said that "If someday aliens arrive on this earth & if they are to be made aware of our civilisation, all that needs to be done is to provide them a link to the internet." The OLPC project might not be a one-stop solution but it certainly is a great technology enabler in provding children esp from the non-developed nations with a terminal to the world. It would greatly accelerate the technological growth in such areas.
As for concerns regarding ignorance/illiteracy, I'm reminded of a project by NIIT by the name "Window in the Wall" conducted in few Indian villages where they embbedded a PC into a wall with only the monitor, keyboard & such stuff jutting out of it. It was found that the rural children out of curiousity, not only started fiddling with it but in a matter of months with NO external assistance, had actually developed mastery over computer usage & word processing tools such as MS Word.
Coming back to my original point the OLPC project is an enabler using which future rural development schemes could be used to spread technology into remote areas & thus the development that comes along with it. It might not be everything, but its certainly an important step in the right direction. -- $ubodh Prabhu (NSIT, INDIA)
Children in poor countries are not at all "ignorant", they like it to learn. If they are illiterate there is a reason - no books, no pen, no school, no literate adults,... --Bz 18:53, 17 June 2006 (EDT)

An Indian overview of Project

After going through the whole scenario about the OLPC, I personally feel that for India, this project could revolutionize the way of education, but I think this project is not as simple as it appears on surface. Following points should be made into consideration while implementing the project:

1) An attempt could be made to increase the flash memory from 500MB to around 1GB at the manufacturing time so that the child can store the important things like notes, lectures videos, and his projects. If this can't be done, at least a provision should be made that a user can increase flash memory according to its requirements later on.

512 megabytes already gives the children room for notes and projects. Lecture videos are something that is only known to work at the university level and really isn't appropriate in a constructionist project targetting elementary school children.
The model we are espousing includes a "school server", where the children will backup their machines and retrieve additional materials. We are also utilizing the mesh to share files between machines. It would be helpful to know what specific use scenarios in India are incompatible with this model. Walter 10:10, 19 June 2006 (EDT)

2) As in rural India, people are very rigid and traditional about their lifestyles and hence do not accept any changes so easily. So there should be something which could help the parents also like providing them a way of communication which they could use to increase their income. This will make the project more popular and acceptable among villages.

All of the laptops include extended-range wifi, capable of mesh networking, and a chat messaging application is included. If the local community adds a Motoman component then you have a general-purpose communications tool. It is expected that parents will ask their children to use the messaging capabilities to improve their economic situation and that is in tune with constructionist educational philosophy of learning by doing.
One of the reasons it is a laptop rather than a desktop is so that it can go home with the children and become part of family and community life. Walter 10:10, 19 June 2006 (EDT)

3) Before starting the mass production, a pilot project should be tried and tested in any rural village of India to get the feedback of teachers, students and their parents. On the basis of response, the things can be improved accordingly.

There have been numerous 1-to-1 pilot projects, in Maine in the USA, in Costa Rica, Cambodia, etc. But we are trying to achieve scale on the order of 100s of millions of children; therefore one-million machines is the pilot. Of course, OLPC will be conducting tests of the laptop in situ well before the major roll out of machines. As in any deployment, we expect to learn from the first adopter and adapt over time. OLPC is working closely with the pilot countries on deployment strategies and mechanism for sharing our collective experiences with the machines. Walter 10:10, 19 June 2006 (EDT)

4) Some educational software like e-books should be provided according to the need of country so that the use of laptop could be optimized.

Please read the rest of this site. Clearly, delivery of e-books is a key goal of the OLPC. However, e-books cannot be delivered until they actually exist. This will be the major problem in India due to the large number of languages and scripts in use. You, and other Indian residents, could help by scanning paper books into DJVU format, resolving copyright licensing issues, and writing new e-books specifically for these kids.

The basic thing I want to say that if a country can spend buying a laptop of $100, it can also spend some more like $110-120 but features should be made flexible and useful because it is not easy for government to replace it in future spending again a whole lot of money. There may be some flaws and limitations in this project, but we have to choose diamonds from stones.

Undoubtly there is a need for investment beyond the laptops themselves. We have been working with the pilot countries to help surface all of the needs and come up with strategies for addressing them. Walter 10:10, 19 June 2006 (EDT)

Thanks

Jitesh Sachdeva

INDIA

An Indian overview of Project-2

View on the Laptop " As I said earlier, this laptop culture can bring the revolution in the way of education in India. It is a tool for education and communication and can help in contributing to the entirety of aid programs. Nevertheless it can provide access to education, health, technology, economic opportunity.

Features that should be added considering Indian community as a larger picture " The most basic feature of Indian community is that it is very diverse. So this thing should be kept in mind while developing OLPC project. That means, the software should be accessible in all major regional language like Marathi, Kannad, Telugu, Tamil, Malyalam, the north east Indians languages like Manipuri, Asamia etc apart.. The software can have greater impact only in that way in India. " The contents should be localized and hence should be developed locally with the help of local teachers. " In spite of all the efforts that have been made, the major part of people in rural India is still illiterate. So, before handing them the laptops directly, some training about proper handling and usage of laptops must be given as most of the people (including children and adults) have not seen any computer in their lives yet (It may sound strange, but it is true).

Open source software used in India apart from GNU/Linux system, Mozilla Firefox, Aiword and Gnumeric etc. I feel that open source software should be used in OLPC project like Linux instead of MS Windows as open source software have following advantages: " Anyone can read the source code and learn the technology.

" Anyone can contribute by improving the code -- adding new features, correcting errors, etc. The culture of the UNIX community attaches high prestige and respect to such work. The public criticism of source code which goes on in the open source world is like the process of peer review in academic research.

" Hidden trapdoors cannot be introduced. For example Microsoft Windows once had a ``feature that it would crash a PC if underlying software from a competitor to Microsoft was being used. Such trapdoors would be rapidly discovered if source code were visible.

" The open source universe avoids the waste involved in reinventing the wheel which takes place in all software companies. In the open source world, each programmer builds on the work of others before him. This brings down the cost of development.

Some Open source software used in India apart from above mentioned : " Apache (web server), " Netscape (web browser) " Sendmail (mail transport)

Software that can help in establishing vision w.r.t India

" I think the most required feature is language translator. This language translator could be used to communicate between two people of different languages via laptop. " There should be enough consideration to the extra curricular activities in laptop like it should enhance the skills like hobby oriented courses, IT related courses etc.

Hardware Specification

" I feel there should be provision of CD/DVD writer. So the child can store necessary data and contents on external disks as internal flash memory is very less (512 MB). It is easy to say that 512 MB will be suffice but as OLPC is planning to give the laptop to child till he becomes 18, that means if a child gets a laptop at the age of 12, then for the 6 years , I feel the before said memory is quite less. " Also, there should be some easy provision like a restore button to restore the laptop to factory defaults in case laptop crash or some virus comes.

Development Issue

I think instead of using python, we could use any other Object Oriented Language like C++ or Java as they are standard languages and are used worldwide. Because these are also taught in schools in India, software written in them, could more effectively implement the idea of open source software. Well, my vote for Java as it is Platform independent and hence obviates the need to write different coding for different environment like Windows, Linux, and Solaris etc.

Jitesh Sachdeva NSIT INDIA

Laptop in the Indian Scenario

Laptop in the Indian Scenario

We must concentrate in the three major areas where these laptops can be a boon

A laptop would be exceedingly useful to an indian student because:

1. It would obviate the need for textbooks

2. This will help in reducing pressure on our depleting forests as textbooks consume a large amount of wood.

3. It will help in increasing flexibility and creativity which is often found wanting in our education system.

As India is an emerging business hub, It is important for our businessmen to keep up in pace with the latest trends and technology. It will help them in staying connected on the move.

Besides these two areas such a project can benefits the large rural community if the IT sector goes on to make good relevant software which may help them in obtaining news and agriculture related information.

Features in the Laptop

Now keeping in mind a larger picture with the Indian Community as a whole, I would like to suggest the following features :

1. Language Bridge If we have to really have the penetration in India we must concentrate on making Soft wares aiming at the regional languages. English is only limited to the elite group of people living in metropolitan cities. If it is to have larger impact such a software is a necessity.

2. An ebook reader. The pdf format is a good but I think we must have an ebook reader which can read Hindi as well as English books with the voices of Indian accent. This would require the development of a voice engine and also the production of voices. This software would require a lot of work but if made then it would be a lot of help to the Indian student.

3. A Free Open Source Accounting Software This will be for the business community to help them in keeping their accounts up to date.

4.Resources After the development of this project our next step must be to make available resources such as : 

         a) The NCERT textbooks to be made available in the Online form
         b) Large amount of Hindi literature to be made available on 
            the Computer. Here I am  talking about the non- copyrighted 
            work of distinguished writers of he past.Basically we must 
            have a parallel for Gutenberg.
         c) Various Websites which would provide information regarding 
            agriculture and help farmers.
         d) Production of courses  and online tutorials which will 
            simulate the interest of students in science and maths.

The main impetus must be on the development of open source software if it has to emerge in a big way. The success of ubiquitous windows is often attributed the large amount of developmental tools and software. However the hardware cannot be neglected too On the hardware side, however, there must be a usb port for connection to usb drives, it may be wi-fi enabled so as to have easy connectivity to the Internet on the move.A bluetooth support would be highly beneficial too.

Deepank Gupta(deepankgupta@gmail.com)

India

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