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<yamaplos> question, the tinyurl send to a bug tracking thing
<yamaplos> ? where are the projects Adam mentiones ?
<CanoeBerry> yamaplos: sorry i'm late
<CanoeBerry> we have 4 projects to discuss
<yamaplos> OK, no worry
<yamaplos> sure. HWere are they?
<CanoeBerry> They have RT pages for those that want all the details, and have joined Support Gang (ask me if you want access!)
<CanoeBerry> They are:
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<CanoeBerry> http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=34505 MathCount by grays
<CanoeBerry> #1 of 4 if we can take a look now..
<CanoeBerry> program to teach basic mathematical concepts to kids (Caryl helped coach grays in Australia, to structure this project)
<CanoeBerry> "would not be another games based program, but would utilise sound pedagogy"
<yamaplos> Looks like he would definitely need one for testing, the rest could be done with virtual
<CanoeBerry> applicant wishes 3 XO's for 12 monhts
<yamaplos> Maybe 2 since he wants to do mesh
<CanoeBerry> Seems reasonable to me.
<CanoeBerry> Other opinions?
<yamaplos> Is he connected with the Pia ganag?
<_sj_> (I also would like some feedback on http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Template:PfR_in_3_steps at the end)
<CanoeBerry> Not yet so much, tho I had them chat!
* _sj_ invites input from scorche, shenki, sdz, unmadindu, m_stone & wadeb
<CanoeBerry> Any other opinions on grays' project? grays is a teacher and hacker in
<yamaplos> Well, I think that he NEEDS to get connected, and someone mentor him for that - else no way to expect results will go to the community
<CanoeBerry> yes, Caryl is helping him which is a great omen -- and grays writes: "danger of a program like this is that it will become too large"
<yamaplos> Can he share resources with other Oz folk?
<CanoeBerry> Perhaps, but if we can get him started right away, before Pia's finalizes the details of her 50-XO library, that's OK with me.
<_sj_> right: good to ask him to talk with other locals first
<_sj_> even if the machines come from the global pool
<CanoeBerry> grays writes: "would like 3 so that I can pass one on to my brother that we might work collaboratively on the project and a third so that I can test networked activities..."
<hullaw> Perhaps it would be appropriate to get him 2 for now, and another when he needs to develop and test?
<_sj_> hiya hulla
<CanoeBerry> What's the consensus, 2 XO's for now?
<yamaplos> OK, let's say we give him 2 machines with a strict clause he is to connect with Pia and she is to supervise further use of the machines?
<yamaplos> His brother can virtualize - the need for multiples is for networking testing
<CanoeBerry> Calling once...
<CanoeBerry> Calling twice...
<CanoeBerry> OK, I will engage grays with Caryl and suggest 2 XO's and see how he reacts.
<CanoeBerry> Let's move on to project #2 of 4.
<yamaplos> I like the simple procedure :-)
<CanoeBerry> http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=34507 juan sebastian cobaleda cano
<CanoeBerry> applicant wants to developOLPC hardware in Colombia
<yamaplos> nope - dead project
<CanoeBerry> applicatin is very short
<CanoeBerry> the fellow is an electornics engineer
<hullaw> I agree...need more specifics
<CanoeBerry> and fedora ambassador
<yamaplos> We already have a lot of people in Colombia with the same aim - no news here
<hullaw> What hardware does he want to develop?
<CanoeBerry> Any constructive feedback here at all, that i can send back to the applicant?
<CanoeBerry> Anyway think about it.
<yamaplos> I say let's go next, ask him to join with Rafael, or Claudia Urrea - his choice and luck
<hullaw> Need more objectives
<CanoeBerry> Moving on to Project #3 of 4.
<CanoeBerry> http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=34508 Mobile Autonomous Communications System by Breezecomm
<CanoeBerry> In Edmonton, CANADA
<yamaplos> I support this, on a LOAN basis
<CanoeBerry> 5-person company wants to provide "cellular signal as well as internet in areas that lack the infrastructure"
<CanoeBerry> Perhaps we can get dsd or ankur to comment on the technical soundness of their approach?
<yamaplos> Especially as they say they would purchase. Let's loan them a couple used ones, for 2 months, and encourage them to get theirs from Ebay or something
<unmadindu> can be useful if it works - but I think we should ask for some details on project timeline, etc
<CanoeBerry> 6 month loan they ask for.
<CanoeBerry> 2 XO's
<_sj_> a nice standardized response that asks j.s.c for more info
<hullaw> Would be quite amazing if worked...for future deployments
<_sj_> and pointers to a good application as a model
<CanoeBerry> "intent of using this laptop is such to see if the device we have can be set in a (cascade) meaning on tower passing its signal to the next"
<unmadindu> _sj_: +1
<yamaplos> let's not block them with hurdles, please
<_sj_> would be helpful. some good projects come in with really bad first apps
<unmadindu> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects/MACS is empty by the way
<CanoeBerry> "effectively creating signals at less than a tenth of current costs"
<yamaplos> but let's get them a shorter time, and if they see future in their concept, they can always go to Ebay to get their own
<CanoeBerry> Agreed, other input I can ask of them by email?
<_sj_> also, we need the standard "laptops are free, but we are supported in part by your donations. please contribute what you can."
<yamaplos> I volunteer to link with them
<CanoeBerry> yamaplos: you will engage them?
<CanoeBerry> steal tkt, thanks!
<CanoeBerry> Moving on...
<yamaplos> but I do not want to waste their time or mine
<yamaplos> can we loan them 2, for 2 months? used ones?
<unmadindu> by the way - http://breezecommunications.ca/ is a real estate company :P
<_sj_> "how is the breeze?"
<yamaplos> BAD :-(
<CanoeBerry> Plz check if the names match...
<yamaplos> oh my
<yamaplos> I'll follow up that one
<CanoeBerry> Moving on to New Project #4 of 4 this week.
<CanoeBerry> http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=34509 Promote OLPC by KaMeck [GERMANY]
<CanoeBerry> Applicant "studied Comupter Sience and now working as Technical Writer" wants to promote XO to kids.
<CanoeBerry> Seems genuine, but a bit short.
<unmadindu> and he is not a computer games :-S
<yamaplos> nope - another promoter of OLPC, unconnected with the local national community
<CanoeBerry> Does dogi know this person perhaps? They are both from Munich...
<CanoeBerry> dogi: u there?
<hullaw> Again, need more clear objectives
<yamaplos> maybe we can link them, but I vote -1
<CanoeBerry> dogi: can you engage this person, to see if they can beef up their proposal & community links / giveback?
<CanoeBerry> OK, that's covers the all 4.
<_sj_> nice a quick.
<unmadindu> ermm, guys, I don't know if this is offtopic or not: but can someone take a look at http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/prc/Week-of-Mon-20090209/001851.html
<CanoeBerry> unmadindu: plz explain?
<unmadindu> CanoeBerry: this is apparently a funded project (with a specific timeline) on which this girl is working on a Speech to Text utility for XOs. and apparently she
needs one to test
<_sj_> unmadindu, that's great. she should apply...
<cjb> _sj_: she has
<CanoeBerry> unmadindy: OK, what is that mailing list?
<yamaplos> funded project? just curious, what is that?
<cjb> > I had followed the instructions on the OLPC wiki to request for a laptop and added the project in November itself. The project was approved in December but I haven't received the XO till now.
<yamaplos> been there...
<CanoeBerry> cjb: we haven't worked thru the backlog.
<unmadindu> yamaplos: there is a group in Delhi which funds open source projects for six months (sort of like a mini GSOC)
<yamaplos> how bad is that backlog, CB?
<_sj_> oh, this is satya?
<yamaplos> (the gReat was for the Delhi proj)
<CanoeBerry> cjb: bad...there are 200+ projects I am moving from ProjectDB.olpc.at to RT, but once I/we finally get rolling in the coming weeks it will go fast.
<unmadindu> CanoeBerry: ah, ok. I just thought it might be important, since the project duration itself is going to end quite soon
* cjb didn't know there was a backlog :/
<unmadindu> apologies for the extra poking :-)
<CanoeBerry> many of these 200 projects have shipped
<_sj_> we've had two gropus try to set up an india pool.
<yamaplos> CB: Maybe I'll get mine then :-) April 2008
<CanoeBerry> but SJ & others (eg. OLPC Germany etc) will work with me to figure out which have shipped and which have not.
<CanoeBerry> I am very new to this process.
<_sj_> but hers should come from [the] us.
<yamaplos> Could we reapply her, and get it speed dealt with next week? unmandindu as sponsor?
<_sj_> unmadindu & cjb, thanks for the notice.
<CanoeBerry> who will contact her to make sure her application goes in this week?
<_sj_> I'll send those two out this weekend...
<_sj_> I'll contact satya
<CanoeBerry> Thanks SJ.
<CanoeBerry> cjb & yamaplos: there are 238 approved projects I need to reconcile, as to their shipping status. SJ suggests there are perhaps far less than 60 that still require shipping?
<CanoeBerry> Next agenda item: how shall we continue to rebuild this Contrib Probgram.
<CanoeBerry> All ideas welcome.
<_sj_> for one : public review process
<_sj_> which, as part of the process, creates a good project page for each initiative
<yamaplos> required connection to community
<_sj_> with links to the criteria for a good project.
<_sj_> really, I'd like the process of posting something interesting to involve a bit of public back-and-forth with the submitter
<_sj_> that really helps to hone ideas
<_sj_> and particularly, with the champion for the project.
<yamaplos> as long as it's not merely red tape
<_sj_> (can be a devil's advocate champion; someone who konws the language and ways of the community, and can speak for why it would be useful/helpful)
<CanoeBerry> I've linked to the criteria off of http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Contributors_program but obviously we are just now beginning to rebuild..
<yamaplos> oh, that's a good one, a sponsor
<hullaw> _sj_: Like a review board?
<_sj_> we should have prominent links from the review log to the criteria
<_sj_> we nee dto send out a second email to the recipients, and to all the people with pdb accounts who never created projects
<_sj_> asking for updates from them
<yamaplos> I say!
<yamaplos> sj: can we also do some attempt at repo? I mean, gently, but affirmatively
<_sj_> yama, I will say three things:
<_sj_> 1. how is your project coming? send us an update, we'd love to hear it
<yamaplos> which one?
<yamaplos> OK, this is getting OT, anything else so we get to SJ's template?
<_sj_> 2. if you're done with your XOs, help others start their projects! contribute to a [local pool], or send them back to the US
<_sj_> 3. if you signed up but never submitted a project, please do so (details : inviting email to rt)
<yamaplos> 2) sure... You mean the 2 I got from you? Boy, are THEY getting used
<yamaplos> 3) I did submit projects - even got one approved, but not shipped
<yamaplos> the XOs I got were for other purposes you said you had recorded, but don't see them in the database
<yamaplos> 2 XOs, for the record, one of them faulty battery
<yamaplos> anything else?
<CanoeBerry> Can we tie up lose ends & wrap up for today?
<yamaplos> SJ's template?
<_sj_> thoughts on the template?
<yamaplos> SJ? you have the floor
<CanoeBerry> SJ, care to explain http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Template:PfR_in_3_steps
<_sj_> and the log?
<CanoeBerry> Which log?
<_sj_> the idea is to have a public list of comments, suggestions for improvement, &c for a fixed time - say 2 weeks - after a proposal comes in
<yamaplos> OK, any example on how that is implemnented?
<_sj_> at the end of which to decide whether to approve, or suggest an alternative (resubmit, work with emulation, work with an existing research group)
<yamaplos> I like the idea, would be nice to see a proto
<pgf> _sj_: re: #2, if you say "contribute to a local pool", aren't you sort of guaranteeing you won't get the machine back? maybe that's the point (i.e., we don't care).
<_sj_> yama, I wasn't asking you, now, that's the general set of questions to send to people with pdb accounts.
<_sj_> yama, you mean http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC:Projects_for_review/Log/2009_February ?
<_sj_> pgf : if there is a local pool, that is the point.
<_sj_> that's only the case in a handful of countries at the moment.
<_sj_> (but if you can ship locally and not internatinoally, that's always a bonus)
<yamaplos> oh, that log - it was CB who asked :-)
<pgf> _sj_: i see.
<_sj_> yama: what do you mean by "would be nice to see a proto" ?
<yamaplos> I support the idea of feeding local pools - that have proper accountability
<yamaplos> that it would be nicve to see a protoitype of a page with all those featuyres you mention
<_sj_> that is what the log is.
<_sj_> but I'm the only person who has commented so far.
<_sj_> if people add new projects there as well as rt, following the process (creating a new page for the project, under a suitable name; putting a template at the top noting it is under review)
<_sj_> it will help work the kinks out
<CanoeBerry> local pools DON'T always have proper accountability--i've seen the evidence, not to name names--i believe they should be supported for other reasons!!
<CanoeBerry> localism fosters better community, loyalty, creativity etc..
<yamaplos> I believe local pools should have accountability - it builds honesty
<CanoeBerry> we should try, sure :)
<yamaplos> and makes the project reliable
<yamaplos> same here :-)
<CanoeBerry> worldwide sharing of lessons learned would be great, as CJL reminds us...
<yamaplos> OK, SJ, will play with the log and idea
<yamaplos> oh yeah, +1
<_sj_> thanks yama. other input (isfor, others) more than welcome.
<_sj_> we could also have a 6-month review process for existing proposals, mediated the same way
<_sj_> since we have the date of the original proposal
<yamaplos> It would be nice to see a Well Done Project as an example
<hullaw> yama: +1
<_sj_> at 6 months, find out how it's doing, whether they need more help / need reminding to pass on their xo's (based on their own timelines)
<yamaplos> something even SJ would say, hey, this is a Well Done Project!
<_sj_> yes. [[featured projects]] is a much needed collection
<CanoeBerry> _sj_: my dilemma is combining the public side with the private comments some mentors and applicants wish to share. Ed McNierney agrees here-- some proposals are by their nature tentative, so this is a hard nut to crack. If only it were just he address & phone number that needs a sphere of privacy..
<CanoeBerry> A hard nut to crack, but we will try.
<_sj_> as long as mentors have a private place to comment, all is well
<_sj_> they can choose where they write.
<yamaplos> and a project can be headed as Tentative
<yamaplos> which is an honest way to start...
<_sj_> but in general, if you take time to formulate your ideas in a polite way, you can say most things publicly.
<_sj_> (I mean, if you can't even describe the principle you want a project to uphold publicly, you can't list it as one of the criteria)
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<yamaplos> SJ, can we have even one or a couple examples of [[featured projects]] ?
<CanoeBerry> Caryl seems to have done a great job with grays.
<_sj_> waveplace projects are good ones to start with
<CanoeBerry> Not sure that mentoring process would have succeeded under the Hollywood lights of Google.
<_sj_> esp. the first one, which was via the CP
<yamaplos> Waveplace got their stuff through CP or DP????
<CanoeBerry> Anyway, we should push people to publish, and also offer a private sphere for the Google-shy.
<_sj_> their very first set of machines for development/testing.
<_sj_> which produced lots of great construtionist work, tools, writing, and case studies
<yamaplos> I like the log view for the Guatemala project, which has a RT link
<_sj_> yes, for the shy, figure out a way to decide whether a project is eligible for completely private approval.
<_sj_> something I hope we would rarely consider
<CanoeBerry> yamaplos: which Guatemala pjct again?
<yamaplos> OK, let me rephrase: We need case examples of projects that would be OK under the new strictures. That would not have a "needs more details" set as comment.
<_sj_> you should generally be able to describe a project generally enough not to offend the submitter, but to tell others why it's a good idea to approve
<yamaplos> having an RT link allows for semi-private comments as needed
<yamaplos> and private details remain private
<yamaplos> out of Google
<yamaplos> but enough of the project is public
<yamaplos> so as to have reasonable disclosure and accountability
<hullaw> logs of the Contributors Program Mtgs like this one could be pasted into the comments on RT as well in order to create a history of discussions
<CanoeBerry> hullaw: i try to paste each of the above sections into RT, yes
<CanoeBerry> hullaw: after each Friday's mtg :)
<yamaplos> (OT) can someone help me format my signature for the wiki so it's as pretty as SJ's ?
<CanoeBerry> yamaplos: look under Preferences on the left in RT
<CanoeBerry> WhOops i thought you meant RT.
<yamaplos> nope, wiki - he won't tell :'(
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<yamaplos> OK, seems we got all done today. Anything else?
<CanoeBerry> Done, thanks yamaplos & all.