Contributors program/October 16, 2009

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[ AGENDA ]

* New projects & libraries -- teaching them Community Outreach:
  http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO_Laptop_Lending_Libraries

* Which projects might you enjoy Mentoring below?!
  http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects
  http://rt.laptop.org/Search/Results.html?Query=Queue=%27contributors%27

* Fast Review of the 5 latest (greatest!) HW/Project Proposals -- please
  join us advocating for, and/or reviewing shortcomings of these proposals:

  #1 OLPC on Puppy Linux - Quakers Hill, NSW, Australia
  #2 Using XO Technology Awareness on HIV/AIDS among children ages 4–16 - Kenya
  #3 GaiaBB - Shared Community Software - Victoria, Australia
  #4 FotoToon - Buenos Aires, Argentina
  #5 XO Bookwriting / photo-interviewing traveling musician - Sallis, Mississippi/MS, USA


[ INTROS ]

<yabasta> it's about that time, no?
<felix_trepanier> yes, but it seems that these meetings do not happen every week
<yabasta> ah
<felix_trepanier> anyone knows if there is suppose to be one today
<felix_trepanier> É
<felix_trepanier> ?
<yabasta
> I received an email for today
* Caryl  has joined #olpc-meeting
<felix_trepanier> ok then...I guess that means it will happen
<yabasta> =)
* sdziallas  Quit ("Ex-Chat")
* Caryl_1  has joined #olpc-meeting
<Caryl_1> Hello?
<felix_trepanier> Hi
<yabasta> hi Caryl_1: the meeting has not started yet it seems
<Caryl_1> Is this the CP meeting?
<felix_trepanier> Contributors program?
<felix_trepanier> yes, I think it is
<Caryl_1> Yes
<felix_trepanier> That what I'm trying to join :)
<godiard> hello, i have applied to the program
<yabasta> it is. the email said today 2pm boston time/EDT
<yabasta> perhaps they are giving time for everyone to arrive
<godiard> i am working, but try to see the chat
<felix_trepanier> Caryl, aren't you one of the OLPC mentors?
<Caryl_1> Yes. I have several projects I am mentoring
<felix_trepanier> Great, I think you are mentoring mine
<yabasta> Caryl_1: that's great to hear
<Caryl_1> Which one is that?
<felix_trepanier> Enfants pour l'Education
<felix_trepanier> with Mafe
<Caryl_1> Ah, yes... Mafe is doing most of that.  I don't speak French... only English and Spanish :-)
<felix_trepanier> hehe
<felix_trepanier> actually, I haven't heard of Mafe in a while and we are in the process of starting it
<Caryl_1> OK have you updated your software to 802?
<felix_trepanier> I mean rolling it out in the school
* Caryl  Quit ("CGI:IRC")
<felix_trepanier> not yet
* sdziallas  has joined #olpc-meeting
<Caryl_1> You have your machines?
<felix_trepanier> I'm still waiting to hear on when I'll be able to get the other XOs
<felix_trepanier> I got 2 for now
<Caryl_1> Ah.
* atphalix  has joined #olpc-meeting
<felix_trepanier> I was allocated 10 a few months ago
<Caryl_1> What was the condition for the other 8?
<felix_trepanier> It was depending on if the machine could do what I needed
<felix_trepanier> as far as I remembered
<Caryl_1> We should look at your ticket and see.
<felix_trepanier> ok...but I don't want to hijack this meeting
<felix_trepanier> so when would be the best time to do that?
<Caryl_1> Do you know the ticket number?
<felix_trepanier> #42243
<yabasta> excuse me for one moment
<Caryl_1> I'll take a peek while we wait for Adam, meanwhile, comeone should ping him to be sure we are in the right place
<felix_trepanier> thanks
<CanoeBerry> Sorry i'm so late!!
<yabasta> back
<CanoeBerry> Hope y'all started making decisions on the 5 projects?
<CanoeBerry> Or can we start with Project #1 now?
<yabasta> I wasn't sure we were supposed to begin discussing the projects. I assumed we were waiting...
<CanoeBerry> Agenda Here: http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2009-October/025840.html


[ PROJECT #1 : OLPC on Puppy Linux - Quakers Hill, NSW, Australia ]

<CanoeBerry> Please all help review Project #1 now here!
<CanoeBerry> 1. OLPC on Puppy Linux - Quakers Hill, NSW, Australia
<CanoeBerry>    http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=48455
<CanoeBerry>    [ MISSING PUBLIC PAGE OFF OF http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects ]
<CanoeBerry>    Requests 2 XO's over undetermined months
<CanoeBerry>    Project Objectives:
<CanoeBerry>    C0-Build a Puppy Linux version. Compile package, provide ongoing
<CanoeBerry>    support, troubleshoot, build a repo etc.
<Caryl_1> Looks like he has a willing mentor in James C
<yabasta> I'm a linux guru; I'm currently running Ubuntu. Is the purpose of running Puppy Linux to have a lighweight *nix OS on the XO?
<yabasta> *I'm not a linux guru <--- ha
<Caryl_1> Dumb Q: How is Puppy different from Pippy?
<CanoeBerry> Very diff!
<CanoeBerry> Any technical criticisms of this project?  Let's decide quick.
* yabasta backs away
<yabasta> technical criticisms are not my area of expertise.
<CanoeBerry> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puppy_Linux
<Caryl_1> What will puppy do for kids?
* bemasc  has joined #olpc-meeting
<TMarques> Hi all
<CanoeBerry> Good question.  Still I say let's approve this project, since it has a mentor, unless objections?
<felix_trepanier> Will they run sugar over it?
<yabasta> hi TMarques
<CanoeBerry> TMarques & bemasc: objections to Puppy Linux?
<TMarques> for one, puppy is lightweight
<Caryl_1> Sounds good... maybe they can do other things too.
<TMarques> no, I'm all for it
<CanoeBerry> Calling once...
<CanoeBerry> +1
<yabasta> if everyone else is for it, I'm for it. I trust you all
<CanoeBerry> Calling twice...
<TMarques> Fedora 9 is quite heavy on the XO-1, haven't looked at F11 though, but expect it to be a memory hog
<yabasta> besides, it does interest me
<CanoeBerry> APPROVED.
<TMarques> puppy would be nice


[ PROJECT #2 : Using XO Technology Awareness on HIV/AIDS among children ages 4–16 - Kenya ]

<CanoeBerry> Onto Project #2 now -- plz help advocate for / critique here:
<CanoeBerry> Using XO Technology Awareness on HIV/AIDS among children ages 4–16 - 
<CanoeBerry> Kenya
<CanoeBerry>    http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=48476
<CanoeBerry>    http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=43608
<CanoeBerry>    http://xoaidsbyhoc.tumblr.com [ LINK NEEDED FROM 
<CanoeBerry> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects ]
<CanoeBerry>    Requests 8 XO's over 2-6 months
<CanoeBerry> Project Objectives:
<CanoeBerry>    1. To help child get basic computer skills using xo laptop
<CanoeBerry>    2. Pupils/ Learners to use xo activities to get awareness of HIV/AIDS.
<CanoeBerry>    3. To equip the teacher with necessary xo skills to help the learner 
<CanoeBerry> in HIV/AIDSawareness.
<CanoeBerry>    4. To use xo laptop to deliver life skills that will lead to Aids 
<CanoeBerry> free life
<CanoeBerry>    5. Identify appropriate sources o information on HIv/ Aids related 
<CanoeBerry> issues.
<CanoeBerry>    6. Make decisions about personal and social behaviour that reduce 
<CanoeBerry> risk of HIV and STD infection using the XO technology.
<CanoeBerry>    7. Show compassion towards and concern for those infected and 
<CanoeBerry> affected by v
<CanoeBerry>    8. Communicate effectively with peers and others, issues and concerns 
<CanoeBerry> related to HIV/AIDS and STDs using the XO chat
<CanoeBerry>    9. To be actively involved in school and out activities aimed at 
<CanoeBerry> prevention and central of HIV and STD's infections
<yabasta> my mind is is made up on this one. this is the project of the 5 (excluding me, eh). I am all for this one
<yabasta> it not only utilizes XO in a wonderful way, but it has very practical purposes
<CanoeBerry> yabasta: plz explain more if you can
<yabasta> okay
<yabasta> I'm from Mississippi, US, we have the highest rate of STD infections in the US
<CanoeBerry> This group has done group work, but their publication track record needs work.
<Caryl_1> What software will they use?
<CanoeBerry> *done good work
<yabasta> we have almost zero sex education support of any kind in classrooms
* sdziallas  Quit ("Ex-Chat")
<CanoeBerry> (Kenya)
<Caryl_1> Sex Ed in the US  is a difficult thing.  I used to have to teach it.
<Caryl_1> Parents can opt out
<yabasta> so I think any education of diseases, especially in countries where this scourge has especially affected young children who will one day grow up to be adults...and have to make choices.... I think awareness is key
<Caryl_1> lots of religious sensibilities
<yabasta> yes, religious sensibilities. welcome to the bible belt
<Caryl_1> :-)
<CanoeBerry> This is a continuation of http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects/HIV_Awareness_Among_Kenya_Children
<bemasc> CanoeBerry: yeah, this only makes sense if they are going to produce a writeup/guide.
<yabasta> hm
<bemasc> Otherwise... informing 8 children about HIV should not require $1600-worth of hardware.
<CanoeBerry> Exactly: their past 3 XOs haven't yet produced public materials.
<yabasta> that is definitely an issue
* daveb  has joined #olpc-meeting
<CanoeBerry> MOTION: mentoring must produce their draft materials from August before these follow on 8 XOs are shipped.
<CanoeBerry> (Current mentor..)
<Caryl_1> If they can produce a useful curriculum that can be adapted/adopted it could be good, but if they already have 3 and haven't produced yet... let's wait
<CanoeBerry> Can we agree?
<yabasta> agreed.
<CanoeBerry> Let's conclude Project #2 here.
<bemasc> ok
<Caryl_1> that is to wait?
<CanoeBerry> Objections to the conditional approval described above?
<TMarques> none
<felix_trepanier> nope
<CanoeBerry> Caryl_1: read MOTION above = conditional approval
<CanoeBerry> Final objections?
<CanoeBerry> Calling once..
<bemasc> CanoeBerry: depends on whether "their draft materials" show forward movement
<CanoeBerry> Yes
<bemasc> ok
<CanoeBerry> Calling twice..
<Caryl_1> ok
<yabasta> =)
<CanoeBerry> CONCLUSION: Conditional Approval pending drafts materials from their August startup phase.


[ PROJECT #3 : GaiaBB - Shared Community Software - Victoria, Australia ]

<CanoeBerry> Onto Project #3 now -- plz review:
<CanoeBerry> GaiaBB: Proposal for shared community software - Victoria, Australia
<CanoeBerry>    http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=48637
<CanoeBerry>    [ http://gaiabb.com forthcoming; LINK NEEDED FROM 
<CanoeBerry> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects ]
<CanoeBerry>    Requests 2 XO's over 8 months
<CanoeBerry> Project Objectives:
<CanoeBerry>    I would like make a proposal to re-purpose my general purpose forum
<CanoeBerry>    software (GaiaBB) to be XO community specific, using a peer to peer
<CanoeBerry>    replication to allow kids to create and contribute to their own easily
<CanoeBerry>    managed forums maintained on their laptops with no central server.
<CanoeBerry>    Typically, forum software requires a database backend, but is actually
<CanoeBerry>    very small footprint as long as you don't allow image attachments.
<CanoeBerry>    Allowing peer to peer replication of the data between participants
<CanoeBerry>    would allow them to grab updates to the forum when they're in range
<CanoeBerry>    say in school, and answer / reply to threads when off radio, say at
<CanoeBerry>    home.
<CanoeBerry> Mentor already assigned!
* bemasc approves
<TMarques> sadly the site seems nonfunctional
<CanoeBerry> Site not yet ready.
<yabasta> this one is good. I'd love to see how that turns out.
<TMarques> otherwise, seems good
<Caryl_1> Does he have students with XOs?
<CanoeBerry> Quick decision -- shall we approve pending live site?
<TMarques> when I read "repurpose", I thought he already had a demo of the original there, sorry
<yabasta> yes
<Caryl_1> wait!
<Caryl_1> 2 XOs for how many kids?  Are there other XOs there?
<bemasc> No kids.  2 XOs for development of collaborative software.
<CanoeBerry> +1
<yabasta> Caryl_1, I just assumed they were developing it and would obtain more machines later on.
<Caryl_1> How will it be shared?
<Caryl_1> Will this be an Activity that others can download?
<CanoeBerry> Sharing will occur over developer mailing lists.
<CanoeBerry> Let us conclude.
<CanoeBerry> Final objections?
<bemasc> It's PHP.
<TMarques> none
<CanoeBerry> +1
<CanoeBerry> Calling once..
<yabasta> no objections here
<felix_trepanier> +1
<Caryl_1> neutral
<bemasc> It's unlikely to really show up in Sugar, but I think it's still worthwhile as proof of principle/algorithms design.
<CanoeBerry> Great summary.
<CanoeBerry> Calling twice..
<CanoeBerry> APPROVED.


[ PROJECT #4 - FotoToon - Buenos Aires, Argentina ]

<CanoeBerry> Onto Project #4 now -- please help review..
<CanoeBerry> FotoToon - Buenos Aires, Argentina
<CanoeBerry>    http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=48696
<CanoeBerry>    [ MISSING PUBLIC PAGE OFF OF http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects ]
<CanoeBerry>    Requests 2 XO's over 6 months
<CanoeBerry>    Project Objectives:
<CanoeBerry>    I have developed the following Activities in Spanish:
<CanoeBerry>    ActivityDomino http://activities.sugarlabs.org/es-ES/sugar/addon/4212
<CanoeBerry>    Ecomundo http://activities.sugarlabs.org/es-ES/sugar/addon/4213
<CanoeBerry>    Elements http://activities.sugarlabs.org/es-ES/sugar/addon/4214
<CanoeBerry>    I am developing an activity to create comics, FotoToon.
<CanoeBerry>    (git http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/fototoon/ ).
<CanoeBerry> Who likes it? :)
<Caryl_1> This developer already has 3 Activities on the Sugar Labs site with a total of over 20,000 downloads
<felix_trepanier> Sounds great!
* dsaxena_away is now known as dsaxena
<bemasc> +1
<CanoeBerry> +1
<Caryl_1> He is a winner!
<TMarques> +1
<yabasta> I don't really have an opinion on this one. I've never even touched an XO and I'm not sure of the usefulness of this project due to this fact. But any type of artistic expression is always good.
<Caryl_1> +1
<CanoeBerry> Objections?
<CanoeBerry> Calling once..
<CanoeBerry> Calling twice..
<yabasta> so I will +1 this once solely on the artistic merit
<CanoeBerry> APPROVED


[ PROJECT #5 - XO Bookwriting / photo-interviewing traveling musician - Sallis, Mississippi/MS, USA ]

<CanoeBerry> Onto Project #5 -- please criticize:
<CanoeBerry> Bookwriting photo-interviewing traveling musician - Sallis, 
<CanoeBerry> Mississippi/MS, USA   
<CanoeBerry>    http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=48800
<CanoeBerry>    [ MISSING PUBLIC PAGE OFF OF http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects ]
<CanoeBerry>    Requests 2 XO's over 6-12 months
<CanoeBerry>    Project Objectives:
<CanoeBerry>    The aim of this project is to demonstrate the
<CanoeBerry>    usefulness of a DIY attitude combined with the capabilities of modern
<CanoeBerry>    technology that both meets creative desires and maintains a balance
<CanoeBerry>    and strong connection with humanity and natu
re. It is an expose, a
<CanoeBerry>    book, of a person who is just like you, me, or anyone else, with
<CanoeBerry>    thoughts and feelings and troubles and joys. Only when a person shines
<CanoeBerry>    the brightest are they the most visible to naked eye.
<yabasta> this project is mine. questions are welcomed.
<CanoeBerry> yabasta: welcome!  Plz introduce your effort briefly for the group if you have 1 min?
<bemasc> yabasta: How does your project help OLPC?
<felix_trepanier> what is the project outcome?
<yabasta> okay. I'll try to answer those questions in as short an answer as possible or I'd end up writing a book here... heh
<CanoeBerry> yabasta: deliverables need not be software code, but the question is important :)
<Caryl_1> How does this help students?
<CanoeBerry> Or: what is your specific outreach strategy?
* yabasta thinks of how to word it all
<CanoeBerry> Quickie ideas are fine -- no pressure.
<CanoeBerry> yabasta -- just summarize your work for us here.
<yabasta> essentially, I am writing a book with a musician (Jolie [LASTNAME]). I want to show the capabilities of the XO creatively and artistically.
<Caryl_1> I don't think the XO has enough memory to accomplish what he wants to do.
<CanoeBerry> yabasta: if your project inspires others, that is a concrete outcome -- but it must be spei=cific in its aims
<yabasta> my outreach strategy.... well, the book will be published, of course. Two things: depending on advance, and when the G1G1 project starts again, I'd like to donate partial proceeds to help with that.
<Caryl_1> It is really an educational tool for children
<bemasc> yabasta: to be clear, an XO has computing power equivalent to a desktop from 1998, roughly.  It's much slower than most computers that can run Windows XP.
<yabasta> Two: the book alone will provide exposure and awareness to the OLPC project
<yabasta> bemasc, I am aware.
<yabasta> Caryl_1, yes, I understand.
<CanoeBerry> yabasta: what will be your milestones prior to publication so the community can get involved?
<yabasta> all books are children books... if they can read.
<felix_trepanier> What is the topic of the book?
<yabasta> to quote a comedian.
<Caryl_1> The journal fills quickly with graphic intense work. You will lose all your work when this happens
<CanoeBerry> will blogging or travelog-like stories be available weekly/monthly or similar?
<yabasta> CanoeBerry, yes, exactly, I will be blogging constantly.
<bemasc> Caryl_1: I would hedge that statement a bit more.
<bemasc> yabasta: when you say "write a book", what, specifically, do you plan to be doing?
<yabasta> Caryl_1, this does seem to be a concern of mine, but I'm hoping to obtain a USB stick to store data
<CanoeBerry> yabasta: do you have an existing blog you can show us?
<yabasta> bemasc, it is essentially a coffeetable book but not intended to be an oversized one. It would be filled with interviews and stories from the artist with many photographs of her in-between.
<bemasc> yabasta: For example, do you intend to be doing desktop publishing/page layout work? Are you just writing plain english text?
<yabasta> CanoeBerry, no, sorry, I do not
<CanoeBerry> yabasta: have you published to wiki.laptop.org or any similar wikis or wikipedia?
<bemasc> yabasta: What tools would you use to write such a book, and what would be the final result that you intend to send to the publisher?
<yabasta> bemasc, I think my previous may have answered your question, but the idea is to do all of the work on the XO. This would include photography.
<CanoeBerry> yabasta: ambitious!
* yoshu  has joined #olpc-meeting
<bemasc> yabasta: using the XO's built-in camera?
<yabasta> CanoeBerry, I have not. my proposal was rushed. I only discovered the contributors project and the XO in general a few days ago.
* dsaxena is now known as dsaxena_away
<felix_trepanier> How is this book related to OLPC mission?
<CanoeBerry> yabasta: have you played with XO or the Sugar Learning Environment before?
<Caryl_1> I really don't see the XO as a machine that will serve your purpose well. You would be better off with a used laptop and a digital camera.
<yabasta> bemasc, -possibly-. I am not sure how well the pictures come out. But we are intentionally avoiding using high-tech SLRs and most likely going with a cheap, decent digital camera for rawness
* yoshu  has left #olpc-meeting
<CanoeBerry> The OLPC Mission needs more books like this -- with deeply personal experiences communicated planetwide.
<yabasta> felix_trepanier, is it related to both because: it can show off the capabilities of the laptop, and also because it would provide much needed exposure
<Caryl_1> But, how is it related to OLPC's mission: education?
<CanoeBerry> yabasta: are you committed to carrying this through over the coming year?
<yabasta> sorry if I'm missing any questions, I'm reading as much as I can.
<bemasc> yabasta: Do you have a publisher? How are you going to get the book ready for press?
<yabasta> CanoeBerry, one hundred percent. The timeline I gave is actually most likely over-exagged... I didn't want to cut my head off by writing '2 to 3 months'
<yabasta> bemasc, one moment, let me answer Caryl_1's question
<yabasta> Caryl_1: it is more an education of the heart, I think. This book is intended and has always been intended to get an in-depth profile of everything Jolie.
<CanoeBerry> Let us conclude soon, it's 3PM!
<Caryl_1> Jolie???
<yabasta> but I do see some usefulness in it by giving others the idea, especially children, to do creative projects such as this.
<CanoeBerry> Please finalize votes/objections.
<yabasta> bemasc, I would have the support of record labels and the artist.
<yabasta> epitaph and anti-records
<bemasc> yabasta: My question is principally technical.
<Caryl_1> I don't think the XO is the right machine for this project.  I vote No.
<atphalix> Caryl_1: mean beautiful in french
<yabasta> bemasc, technically speaking, I am unsure, then.
<bemasc> Objections: No clearly defined output.  Requests 2 XOs without explanation.
<yabasta> hm
<atphalix> yabasta: I suggest that you refine your proposal and try next week
<Caryl_1> It would be sad for him to set out thinking this would work and find out it won't.
<bemasc> Pro: Could provide a valuable exploration in using the XO for larger projects, especially if there is an article describing the process of writing the book.
<yabasta> bemasc, that was part of my intentions of blogging the day to day use of it.
<yabasta> Caryl_1, I think it can.
<bemasc> yabasta: yes.  Unfortunately, I am pessimistic regarding a positive outcome for you... mostly because you haven't defined what your output will be.
<Caryl_1> It really has limitations.
<yabasta> bemasc, could you be more specific about 'output' ?
<bemasc> If you said "I will produce a print-ready PDF of the entire book, typeset in Abiword/Write", I would be more interested.
<yabasta> bemasc, that is the idea
<TMarques> must leave, sorry I can't stay till the end
<TMarques> best regards to all
<bemasc> yabasta: that's not how publishing normally works.
<yabasta> sorry that I did not mention it, I'm trying to keep up with the questions
<CanoeBerry> yabasta: your vision is on track
<CanoeBerry> but needs a technical roadmap
<bemasc> yab
asta: your book publisher will most likely want the raw text and pictures, to lay out as they choose.
* TMarques  Quit ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
<yabasta> bemasc, as I've said, I have the support of many people who will work that out for me in as far a publisher goes
<CanoeBerry> can someone possibly mentor to get this on track?
<bemasc> yabasta: alternatively, you might decide to lay out the entire thing yourself, but Abiword is not sufficient for that sort of work.  You'll probably want to use Scribus.
<yabasta> bemasc, that will be worked around, I can assure you of that. It's already been discussed with the artist.
<bemasc> So far, I have no indication that you are familiar with the tools of digital publishing.
<bemasc> Unlike Caryl, I do think it's possible to write a book on the XO.  People wrote books on Apple IIs.
<Caryl_1> I'm still a No. Sorry.
<yabasta> I can only say that the artist and her record label are behind me on the book idea. Discovering the XO, I thought it would be a grand idea to show that it could be done and also provide much needed exposure to OLPC
<CanoeBerry> Caryl_1: Mr Wright would be more optimistic here, eh?
<bemasc> The problem is one of defining the output.  A book written on an Apple II was a dot-matrix printed manuscript, and the publisher would mechanically typeset the entire thing over again.
<yabasta> as far as the technology is concerned, I have faith in Abiword. I've used it before. It can be done.
<yabasta> bemasc, publishing is not an issue. Really.
<Caryl_1> He has the idea and knows how to implement it within the limits of the XO
<felix_trepanier> I think what would really help is if you had something to show
<felix_trepanier> texts, blogs, articles
<yabasta> I don't have anything off hand, I can only say that I've been trusted with this project already by a well-known record label and a well-known artist.
<yabasta> thankfully
<bemasc> yabasta: So are you proposing to produce a manuscript, with blank squares for the images? An online-ready PDF that does not reflect the final form of the book? A polished, fully-laid out text, complete with cover art?
<CanoeBerry> yabasta: Personally I'm in favor, if extreme mentoring is involved -- can you reach out to desktop publishing and literary folks in your city?
<bemasc> yabasta: I think if you refine your proposal it will definitely be accepted.
<yabasta> the cover art would be done in separate files. an online PDF would reflect the final form of the book, I can have that done.
<yabasta> CanoeBerry, I can reach out to literary folks, sure, and I am not worried about desktop publishing, but there are no XO related groups if that is what you are asking
<yabasta> as I've said, the book idea came first. XO was an afterthought. and as long as 
I can write on the machine and take or upload pictures, I will have no problem with that
<bemasc> yabasta: are you aware of the reasons why books are not typically published using word processors?
<yabasta> publishing wise, there are no concerns there. I have the support of people who've taken a strong interest in it.
<yabasta> bemasc, yes.
<Caryl_1> felix_trepanier: I checked your ticket I will send you an email via the ticket ;-)
<bemasc> yabasta: why did you ask for 2 XOs?
<yabasta> bemasc, one for me, one for the artist. But I actually mentioned that one would be fine.
<yabasta> I wouldn't want to take an XO away from another project.
<felix_trepanier> Caryl_1: Thanks
<yabasta> bemasc, if you could, might I send you a link to the artist's wiki?
<bemasc> yabasta: what is this link for?
<yabasta> I think part of your concern is later publishing it, and I want to ease your mind about that.
<CanoeBerry> Note Nancie Severs is publishing here Travel Blog to Vietnam direct from her XO:
<CanoeBerry> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects/Vung_Vieng_Fishing_Vietnam
<yabasta> bemasc, to provide you more information regarding the artist and the people who are backing the book project.
<CanoeBerry> http://www.travelpod.com/travel-blog/nsevers/4/tpod.html
<bemasc> yabasta: I am intrigued by the notion of producing an entire book on an XO, and even more intrigued by the idea of doing it using software already present in the base install.
<yabasta> a link to her wiki and a link to her latest album's wiki
<yabasta> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jolie_[LASTNAME]
<yabasta> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Living_and_the_Dead_(album)
<bemasc> yabasta: I am concerned about publishing principally because the type of publishing determines the technical endpoint.
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<yabasta> CanoeBerry, that is quite interesting
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<bemasc> yabasta: There's a big difference between publishing through a major publisher, "book deal"-style, and publishing through a "short run" automated printing service.
<yabasta> bemasc, those links should ease your mind a bit on those fronts
<bemasc> The latter is actually _more_ interesting to me, because it requires you to do more on the XO.
<yabasta> bemasc, it can be adjusted to do that if the community would prefer that
<bemasc> If you're going through a major publisher, then saying it's "produced on an XO" means much less, since the final output will of course have been produced on a Mac Pro in Quark.
<yabasta> true
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<Caryl-2> I think I got disconnected when I followed one of those links
<CanoeBerry> bemasc: don't go there :)
<yabasta> the plan was/is actually to provide the PDF free and have it published. The differences in the final outcome would be equivalent to a PDF book on the net and a real book in your hands.
<CanoeBerry> yikes/oops, sorry I was reading out of order.
<yabasta> Caryl-2, lol, the wiki links?
<bemasc> yabasta: That would have been a good thing to see in your proposal.
<yabasta> yes, the proposal was a bit rushed.
<yabasta> so I do understand that
<bemasc> yabasta: if you would like to attempt to produce a 50+-page document entirely on the XO in the Write activity, I would be happy to view that as useful "stress-testing" of the system.
<yabasta> I don't own an XO.
<bemasc> You may soon.
<CanoeBerry> bemasc: help us decide -- OLPC certainly have refurbished XOs we are happy to provide if this project can come together in one way or another.
<yabasta> if I did, I would be more than happy to do so.
<yabasta> I am more than willing to tweak the project closer to OLPC needs and goals and also to ease anyone's minds about the scale of the project
<yabasta> my only concern so far has been what camera to use and obtaining a USB storage device.
<bemasc> Given what I know so far, I would be happy to give yabasta one fully working XO.
<yabasta> and those were only XO concerns, I  have no concerns about the book itself.
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<Caryl> I keep getting disconnected
<bemasc> I think other people would be even happier if yabasta were to write a clarified proposal focusing on book-writing as a means of stress-testing (1) our technical support for creating large documents, and (2) the software ergonomics of doing so, with reports back to us on what works and what doesn't in the current system.
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<bemasc> yabasta: The "50+-page document" I'm talking about is the book!
<CanoeBerry__> Yikes, I'm back -- conlusions from past 5 min?
<bemasc> CanoeBerry: hung jury.
<CanoeBerry__> ok
<yabasta> bemasc, it can be done. I just assumed you meant as an example.
<yabasta> but, yes, it can be done.
<yabasta> welcome back CanoeBerry
<yabasta> bemasc, as far as publishers go, we have have quite a bit of pull with these people. That's all I can say on the printed publishing end for now.
<bemasc> yabasta: I recommend you submit a new proposal.  Tell us what you intend to do 
_from our perspective_.
<bemasc> We don't know or care about a musician, or a publisher.
<Caryl> Please show clear ties to the educational mission of OLPC
<yabasta> I do, because it provides a voice for the mission.
<bemasc> We do care about the usability of this machine, about what you intend to do with it, and about what you can produce that can help children learn.
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<bemasc> A testimonial about its capabilities is worth something.  A guide to exploiting them is worth even more.  Our bar is very low.
<yabasta> I understand
<yabasta> bemasc, would you be willing to help redo my proposal ?
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<bemasc> yabasta: yes, I can help.
<yabasta> so that I can better describe my intentions
<yabasta> could we do this today?
<bemasc> sure
<yabasta> okay. I will be right back. I have the proposal form pulled up, and whenever you're free to help me, let me know. But for now I will be right back.
<CanoeBerry__> bemasc & yabasta: I will have SJ Klein help as well if nec -- a member of OLPC Staff obsessed with e-books if that later helps.
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<yabasta> back
<yabasta> CanoeBerry, that would be excellent
<Caryl> Are we ready to adjourn?
<yabasta> Caryl, I think so... I'm waiting to hear from bemasc about redoing my proposal
<bemasc> oh
<yabasta> but yes, it seems the meeting is over.
<bemasc> yabasta: well, I've already told you my opinion over the course of this chat.  Ball's in your court.
<yabasta> I understand. I'm just wondering when you'll have time to help me with the proposal.
<bemasc> I can add myself to the ticket and we can work by e-mail
<yabasta> all right.
<yabasta> but I do have the form right now, if you want to start on it on here.
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<yabasta> no rush, but I'm doing this all on the artist's schedule and we could be ready to start within days. the time length is still undetermined, though.
<bemasc> yabasta: easier to do it on RT
<bemasc> yabasta: an important thing to realize is: you have to sell your project to (1) engineers and (2) teachers.
<bemasc> Persuasion requires knowing your audience.
<yabasta> right
<yabasta> that's why I need your help, no?
<yabasta> how should I acquire an user name and passed for RT?
<yabasta> *a user (sorry, lack of sleep last night)
<bemasc> oh, you can just reply to the e-mails you've been getting, I guess.
<bemasc> Those e-mails have been going into a Request Tracker system (RT).
<bemasc> That way, I can see them too, and respond.
<bemasc> My recommendation is that you come up with a new draft based on the debate you saw today, and if I have comments on it, maybe you can tweak it further.
<yabasta> ah
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<yabasta> i should reply to the email and ask for a login/pass or would it be automated ?
<yabasta> or simply rewrite the proposal and then receive login/pass
<bemasc> you don't need a login/pass
<yabasta> ok...
<bemasc> you've been submitting stuff to RT all the time
<bemasc> you just didn't know it
<yabasta> I see.
<yabasta> so, the idea then is to rewrite the proposal, reply back to email with my ticket number, and then you can help tweak it?
<bemasc> right
<yabasta> thank you
<yabasta> bemasc: I am unsure of what to put down under past exp/qualifications as I don't work or go to school at the moment.
<bemasc> Well, given how you've defined the project, explain why you think you are likely to be able to complete the project?
<yabasta> all right... I actually might just use what I used in my last proposal (if you get a chance, you can look at it.)
<bemasc> yabasta: no.
<yabasta> fair enough
<bemasc> yabasta: that paragraph is wonderfully flowery and fuzzy.  Engineers hate fuzzy.
<yabasta> ha
<bemasc> Be concrete.  What have you done that is relevant to the _specific tasks_ you will be undertaking.
<yabasta> it's a bit tricky. I'll go back to that question later.
<bemasc> Obvious questions to answer are (1) Do you know how to write in English? (2) Do you have a history of writing thousands of words in english? (3) Do you have experience with desktop publishing or word processing software?
<yabasta> answer to all 3 would be yes
<bemasc> (4) Do you have the motivation required to achieve a useful result?
<yabasta> okay, I understand now.
<bemasc> You should answer all these things, ideally with a very short explanation of (e.g.) your history of writing long documents.
<yabasta> all right
<bemasc> yabasta: oh, also, to prove that you know how to make a weblog or whatever, you should keep the latest version of the proposal on some publically visibly webpage.
<yabasta> I was going to do that any way. I'm thinking of going with wordpress, but do you have an alternative suggestion?
<bemasc> wordpress is fine.
<yabasta> all right.
<yabasta> be right back
<yabasta> back
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<yabasta> bemasc, I've just replied to the email with a new proposal.
<yabasta> i have a wordpress account setup, I'll post the proposal when you give me the okay.
<bemasc> yabasta: you can post it and change it as you like.  Wordpress even has a feature called "pages" for this purpose.
<yabasta> I know. i just figured I'd wait to see what you thought of the new proposal before I posted it.
<bemasc> yabasta: I think it's a big improvement.  You might want to specify why we should believe that you are capable/likely to finish such a book.You also might want to specify more explicitly
<bemasc> argh
<yabasta> you okay?
<bemasc> You also might want to specify more explicitly how we are going to learn about your progress.
<yabasta> all right.
<bemasc> In particular, I think it's important for you to commit to documenting any problems you run into, and any workarounds you develop, as a guide to future creative people attempting comparable projects.
<yabasta> noted
<yabasta> going to edit now
<bemasc> and by creative people I especially mean teachers and students.
<yabasta> right, right
<yabasta> okay. new one sent. have a look if you have a minute, I'll be right back. loving your feedback.
<yabasta> I'll type your name so you get a notice =p. bemasc
<yabasta> brb
<bemasc> yabasta: I still want more concrete details.  What subjects are you going to blog about?  How frequently?  How many pages or words do you intend to write for this book? Do you have a USB keyboard, or do you intend to use the built-in child-size one?
<CanoeBerry> yabasta: and if your book succeeds i'm putting you in charge of global public relations for OLPC, watch out ;-)
<CanoeBerry> Half kidding-- OLPC solicits public suggestions for its Twitter account here:
<CanoeBerry> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Microblog
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<yabasta> ok, sorry back
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<yabasta> well, actually, give me 5 minutes.
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<yabasta> okay
<yabasta> bemasc: it all depends on how much material is collected. it could be anywhere from 100 to 300 pages. as far as blogging goes, I thought I was clear in what I'd be blogging about (the entire process). I intend on using the built-in child-size keyboard.
<yabasta> I'm essentially dropping the publisher since you've stated the community might be more interested in something self-published.
<yabasta> I'm trying. I'm trying.
<yabasta> CanoeBerry, how are you today?
<CanoeBerry> Tired :)
<yabasta> same here. I've not slept for two days.
<CanoeBerry> ??
<yabasta> been busy planning some things out and writing a few things.
<yabasta> plus the phone goes off nonstop
<CanoeBerry> you sure you have time to write a book ;-)
<CanoeBerry> do it, but don't kill yourself!
<yabasta> hehe. yes, yes. I'm a little down about dropping a publisher but I'm still in it to win it
<yabasta> plus even if the proposal is OK'd there's no telling when the artist will be ready, it looks like within a few days and that worries me a bit
<yabasta> but I'm handling it all as best I can
<CanoeBerry> If you do a bang-up job, OLPC will distribute your book.
<CanoeBerry> Get bemasc's approval and I will ship your 2 XO laptops that moment -- this guy's among our very top community mentors so you're lucky to have him.
<yabasta> I'm trying.
<yabasta> he is a nice guy, I'm glad he's helping me. the proposal has definitely improved. but I'm not sure what more he wants
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<yabasta> sorry, i was d/ced. what'd I miss?
<yabasta> okay. I'll be back in ten minutes. maybe then someone will speak eh? *looks around at CanoeBerry and bemasc*
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<yabasta> back
<yabasta> so'd everyone leave?
<cjb> probably -- the meeting's only supposed to be 3pm-4pmish, and now it's 7:30pm
<yabasta> =/
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