Contributors program/February 27, 2009
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<CanoeBerry> MTG WILL BEGIN IN ~2 MIN: See http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Contributors_program/meetings
<ChristophD> As expteced I'm in the middle of dinner so will join you a little later... :)
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<CanoeBerry> NP!
<dirakx> ;)
<CanoeBerry> Hola Colombia!
<dirakx> CanoeBerry: Hola USA ! ;)
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<CanoeBerry> Hi Anil.
<anil_> hi adam
<CanoeBerry> Slow start.
<CanoeBerry> A) We have 4 project to review fast.
<anil_> sure
<CanoeBerry> B) We want mentors for the 60 projects that are backlogged from roughly Nov/Dec/Jan
<CanoeBerry> C) We will discuss our emerging CP "v2.0" and v3.0 hoefully arriving by spring
<CanoeBerry> Let's wait a couple more min for a quorum. Who else can we pull in? Christoph will join from Austria in a few min when he's done eating.
<CanoeBerry> Anybody else?
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<CanoeBerry> While we wait, here are the 4 projects we want to quickly review:
<CanoeBerry> 1) http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=34887 XOs for Humanitarian Assistance/Disaster Relief (HA/DR)
<CanoeBerry> 2) http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=34888 LAXO XO Lending Library (Southern Calif)
<CanoeBerry> 3) http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=34889 Olin Repair Center (Massachusetts)
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<anil_> would you prefer I adopt a specific project rather than choose one of my liking? I think you might be having some prioritization thoughts
<CanoeBerry> 4) http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=34959 Repair David Conclaves's XO
<CanoeBerry> While we wait for just a bit, I want to preview Agenda Item B), where Culseg and others can hopefully explain the best ways to nurture our ~60 backlogged projects, most of which already have preliminary approval, and just need Mentors to push them to
clean up their shipping addresses and intentions to complete the prjct!
<CanoeBerry> Culseg: your work has been an inspiration to others this week, kickstarting mentoring here.
<CanoeBerry> Sorry SJ & others are busy right now. Shall we start anyway?
<Caryl> Hi all...I've been too swamped with followups on SCaLE and getting ready for CUE next week. I've neglected my tickets!
<Caryl> Adam...Is Jan's shipment to Kenya happening?
<Culseg> I'd advise a style of generating info from the potential Constributor to first see how they communicate and thereby get an update, since many of these requests are quite dated
<CanoeBerry> Caryl's discussing http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=20192 which is awaiting Fedex clarification as to whether they can ship to rural Kenya
<ChristophD> okay, here I am
<CanoeBerry> great, let's start.
<CanoeBerry> Culseg: plz help explain more during Agenda Item B) in 15min from now. Your input will help all others.
<CanoeBerry> Agenda Item A) Fast Review of this week's 4 projects fast
<CanoeBerry> #1 of 4: http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=34887 XOs for Humanitarian Assistance/Disaster Relief (HA/DR)
<ChristophD> okay, looking at the 4 projects as we speak
<Culseg> topic above goes to wrong link for adjenda
<Caryl> Aside: Can we discuss the application process? Anil and I were looking at it last night. It has a lot of big problems.
<CanoeBerry> Caryl: That's Agenda Item C). And B) too. See above.
<ChristophD> Caryl, I agree
<CanoeBerry> First we want quick looks at this week's 4 projects.
<CanoeBerry> Culseg: clarify broken link for me if you can.
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<CanoeBerry> #1 of 4 needs feedback: Naval Postgraduate School
<CanoeBerry> Hastily Formed Networks Research Group
* homunq hi
<Culseg> RT34887 seems to have a the right idea, and to test how disaster relates to deployments could be a very good thing!
<CanoeBerry> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects/XOs_for_HADR
<ChristophD> #34887 looks good to me!
<CanoeBerry> Any concerns on 34887 or do we have initial consensus?
<ChristophD> #34888 also
<CanoeBerry> They want 4 XO's for 12 months.
<ChristophD> 34887 seems solid to me
<ChristophD> plus 4 XOs is a reasonable start I think
<ChristophD> an option would be to give them 3 for 6 months initially
<CanoeBerry> Before we get to 34888, which is #2 of 4.
<Caryl> Wow! They used the template! Will they be able to buy 10000 units if they decide this is a viable use of the XO for their overall project?
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<Caryl> If not, they need to know up front that all their work may be for naught.
<CanoeBerry> Aside: I revised Caryl's template ( http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Contributors_program_criteria ) during the past 24hrs
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<CanoeBerry> But moving on, how many do we suggest for Human Assist / Disast Relief?
<CanoeBerry> 3 or 4 XO's?
<ChristophD_> okay, lets start with 3 maybe
<CanoeBerry> OK, Another voice?
<Caryl> 4
<CanoeBerry> Another voice?
<Caryl> but they need to know there may be problems buying more
<CanoeBerry> Anil?
<CanoeBerry> OK, I will engage this Prjct.
<Culseg> 4 sounds fine for disaster study
...
<anil_> sorry if this is a dumb q, but shouldnt they be reqd to elaborate a little on why 4 and not 2 or 6 ?
<CanoeBerry> anil_: yes
<CanoeBerry> anil_: do you want to engage them?
<anil_> sure
...
<CanoeBerry> Great: plz steal 34887 from me, and I will work this tkt with you.
<anil_> ok. sounds good
...
<Caryl> 4 because that is what they asked for. 34888 all of the above plus has been done. The donor is interested, we just have to find a place to house the machines. Plus I'd like to be able to get them a tax deduction for their donation.
...
<anil_> for 34887: I mean how are we discussing 3 vs 4 (at random?) e.g. Cristoph suggested we start with 3. Well, they may have specific reasons for 4. shouldnt they elaborate on that so that we understand better? I mean starting with 3 when they asked for 4 is a little confusing to me
...
<anil_> q about 34887: looks to me like they have all required details in place. What would be the next step for me as a mentor? Just send them an approval email and you ship?
...
<CanoeBerry> anil_: just Reply to the ticket! If you are nervous, put your reply as a Comment and I will review it first. Be bold. Sandy's done quite a number -- ask him if you need lingo.
<anil_> sure
<CanoeBerry> Moving in to #2 of 4: http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=34888 LAXO XO Lending Library (Southern Calif)
<CanoeBerry> "20 people interested in starting a grassroots group in the
<CanoeBerry> Southern California area"
...
<Culseg> 34888 should also connect with OLPC Santa Barbara
<ChristophD_> and OLPC SF
...
<CanoeBerry> Culseg: who is OLPC Santa Barbara?
<CanoeBerry> 34888 (LAXO) requests 12 XO's for 60 months.
<CanoeBerry> Pending their final proposal.
<Culseg> NN spoke there in Jan , I can dig up contact and put in ticket
<CanoeBerry> Culseg: thanks!
<Caryl> 4 because that is what they asked for. 34888 all of the above plus has been done. The donor is interested, we just have to find a place to house the machines. Plus I'd like to be able to get them a tax deduction for their donation.
<CanoeBerry> Caryl: what donation?
<Caryl> 10-12 XOs
<Culseg> they don
<Culseg> they don't pay for them in CP program
<ChristophD_> Caryl, I also dont understand that donation part:-?
<CanoeBerry> Caryl: also, when do you anticipate http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects/LAXO_XO_Library will be live?
<CanoeBerry> We need a pretty public face before approving a library :)
<CanoeBerry> Caryl can add her thoughts later if nec?
...
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<Caryl> The company has 10-12 xos they got from G1G1. They would like to keep them local. We have a lot of contacts from schools and universities from SCaLE
<CanoeBerry> anil_: just ask the contributor to justify how he will use 3 versus 4.
<CanoeBerry> anil_: we have initial approval, and will wrap up final approval together and ship.
<Caryl> We are trying to get an LAXO group started. I have about 20 names from SCaLE and will have more after CUE next weekend
<CanoeBerry> Caryl: What are you asking of these 20 names to push this forward?
<Caryl> The guy with the XOs is willing to donate even if he can't get a deduction, but it seems the right thing to do.
<ChristophD_> Also, why specifically 12 XOs?
<CanoeBerry> Another conversation for another time probably, but keep us in the loop :)
<Caryl> Because that is what he has!
<ChristophD_> I think 12 is quite a high number for an initial seeding of a group
<CanoeBerry> You Hollywood star, put LAXO in the lights!
<Caryl> Ja! Ja!
...
<Caryl> He wants to keep them local. We could just wait until all the schools and individuals I talked to last week and will talk to next week to apply, but it seems more efficient to keep them local. Besides, that is what sj suggested we do.
<CanoeBerry> Let's move on to #3 of 4, and plz all continue to encourage Caryl to fine-tune her proposal.
<CanoeBerry> Caryl may not need any XO's from Chicago it sounds like..
<CanoeBerry> But Caryl: make sure to ask if you do.
<CanoeBerry> OK moving on.
<Caryl> Right!
<CanoeBerry> #3 of 4: http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=34889 Olin Repair Center (Massachusetts)
<CanoeBerry> Wants 4 salvaged XO's for repairs.
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<CanoeBerry> Motherboards are her main need it appears.
<CanoeBerry> This bends the rules of OLPC, but Nikki & all have done great work and I approve.
<Culseg> is there more repair stock that can be sent instead
<CanoeBerry> Possibly, but broken machines are not what she wants here. Salvage / Give Anothers here in Cambridge might be more appropriate.
<CanoeBerry> As Olin has a backlog of repairs i hear -- needing to fix a couple badly borked Mobo's folks have sent in.
<Culseg> fine, send those, I like there project too!
<CanoeBerry> Other voices approval/denying?
<CanoeBerry> I approve.
<CanoeBerry> Anybody else concur?
<Caryl> +1
<CanoeBerry> Done.
<CanoeBerry> #4 of 4 is much the same: http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=34959
<CanoeBerry> CZ is doing fantastic work (repair and otherwise) at Olin, but working a bit independently of Nikki.
<CanoeBerry> I (personally) would approve this one too, just like #3 above.
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<CanoeBerry> Opinions?
<Caryl> +1
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<CanoeBerry> Good: The above 2 are a limited window of opp thing, as Give Anothers arriving here in Camb, Mass will end soon, at long last.
<CanoeBerry> All Done with his week's 4 proposals for now.
<anil_> sorry if this was covered somewhere and i missed it - one more point, is it possible to get a list of the 4 tickets we plan to discuss in advance? Im trying to read the details and think through questions and type all at once
<CanoeBerry> anil_: it's up above. i'll paste it in again.
<CanoeBerry> 1) http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=34887 XOs for Humanitarian Assistance/Disaster Relief (HA/DR)
<CanoeBerry> 2) http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=34888 LAXO XO Lending Library (Southern Calif)
<CanoeBerry> 3) http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=34889 Olin Repair Center (Massachusetts)
<CanoeBerry> 4) http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=34959 Repair David Conclaves's XO
<anil_> no I meant in advance of the meeting
<CanoeBerry> anil_: I'll try in future.
<anil_> great
<Caryl> Now can we discuss the application process? You will notice I did NOT use the template. The contributors database where I applied does not ask for it. It is totally different
<CanoeBerry> Agenda Item B) the almost ~60 proposals backlogged from Nov/Dec/Jan needing mentoring/shipping.
<anil_> Im just wondering - the contrib program seems to be morphed into repair center mobo work. What about other repair centers with similar needs but not as much creativity?
<CanoeBerry> anil_: the above 2 are an isolated case.
<anil_> ok
<CanoeBerry> But yes, repair centers should apply for projects like anybody else.
<ChristophD____> CanoeBerry, how many XOs can OLPC ship out via CP / month
<CanoeBerry> B) While Culseg and others have helped a lot (and we're awaiting SJ) the
issue is mentoring.
<CanoeBerry> I will help.
<CanoeBerry> The issue is not shipping.
<CanoeBerry> The issue is providing a humane service, handholding these up to the shipping process and beyond.
<CanoeBerry> I could (and will in some cases) ship a lot of these backlogged projects in the next 10 days, but we will have succeeded if we pair them up with ppl who actually give a damn to help prjcts along over 2009..
<Caryl> There must be a maximun number of available XOs
<ChristophD____> Thats why we have been discussing local repositories for two months now. Not having to deal with the many inquiries and helping with actually just getting the XO would free a lot of time to actually be there and mentor people when they have the XO
<CanoeBerry> yes and no
<CanoeBerry> Local Library Proposals have been slower to arrive than I'd hoped.
<anil_> q about 34887: looks to me like they have all required details in place. What would be the next step for me as a mentor? Just send them an approval email and you ship?
<CanoeBerry> I've been pushing an Oregon guy to get his XO Library plan in place, but these things take time to get right
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<Culseg> on a positive note, the new queue in RT for CP is a vast improvemnet over the sunken ships of DB or just email
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<CanoeBerry> anil_: just Reply to the ticket! If you are nervous, put your reply as a Comment and I will review it first. Be bold. Sandy's done quite a number -- ask him if you need lingo.
<anil_> sure
<CanoeBerry> hullaw: hi, you're living evidence the new process is beginning to work better, right?
<Caryl> Re: Library Proposals...I only put mine in because the machines are available and it would be a good project to help jump-start a grassroots group that will probably meet FTF only once but frequently online
<hullaw> I believe so!
<hullaw> I missed most of the meeting so far, will read the notes
<CanoeBerry> NP
<ChristophD> CanoeBerry, if you have a minute please also let me know whether my reply to edw in RT was okay. thx
<Culseg> anil get them to post a wiki update and basically check in with them....before saying approval etc.
<CanoeBerry> So (i) keep promoting local libraries, as these people have been slower to get their plans together than we'd hoped
<CanoeBerry> (ii) we need mentors NOW for the almost 60 projects here:
<CanoeBerry> http://rt.laptop.org/Search/Results.html?Query=Queue=%27contributors%27
<CanoeBerry> I will engage the Applicants myself if nec over the coming 10 days, but you all can do better than me just sending form letters!!!!!!!!!
<anil_> culseg: aah, thanks! I had this feeling I was missing something
<CanoeBerry> I will be pushing ppl harder (thanks for yr help Caryl) to pair up and help projects going forward. Thank you for the ~6 ppl who've given so much already.
<CanoeBerry> You know who who are!
<Caryl> I'll look over the list, but won't be able to take very many because of all the conference stuff going on.
<CanoeBerry> Shall we move onto C) Process improvements and NextGen v3.0 requests ?
<CanoeBerry> Specifically, http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Contributors_program_criteria
<Caryl> nice page. But when they go to the application place, it is all different
<CanoeBerry> Forms are form, hated by all, but as we re-engineer this, Caryl's see here is a great start.
<CanoeBerry> Noting that the freeform ProjectDB "state your employer" and "state your experience" etc textfields also work reasonably well to guilt ppl into lining up their ideas etc.
<Caryl> Anil and I noticed that the regular form asks for a "detailed description" That is why we are getting huge, run-on paragraphs that don't really tell us what we need to know
<Caryl> We need people to be encouraged to be clear and concise
<CanoeBerry> Caryl: so you are advocating an immediate transition to your own template here http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Contributors_program_criteria ?
<CanoeBerry> That's an idea SJ endorses. Fine-tuning the form won't be easy, but we should try.
<Caryl> That would be great. Anil what do you think?
<CanoeBerry> We can force ppl to email contributors @ laptop.org directly instead of using ProjectDB.
<anil_> yes - projectdb says "Try to describe as detailled as possible" Perhaps we might reword that to "Try to describe as specific for x y z as possible" where x, y z are what we need
<CanoeBerry> If I/we pretty up http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Contributors_program we may even be able to do that within the week.
<Caryl> that's what the template does!
<anil_> I meant "Try to be as specifc for x y z as possible" where x, y z are from the template
<ChristophD> can you send us a link for the template please
<ChristophD> as I'm not exactly sure what you are talking about...
<Caryl> It is above...criteria
<ChristophD> ah, okay, thx
<ChristophD> thought you were talking about a form-based template or something
<anil_> sure, but I wonder if someone might read the template and then go to projectdb. Can we at least add a link to the template from within projectdb?
<CanoeBerry> It could be web form.
<CanoeBerry> But for now it's Caryl's recommendations for sharper questions.
<Caryl> right
<CanoeBerry> anil_: SJ favors a full transition immediately this week.
<CanoeBerry> Away from ProjectDB
<Caryl> wasn't it easier to read the one today that used the template?
<CanoeBerry> Asking ppl to email some highly-structured version of Caryl's form to contributors @ laptop.org
<ChristophD> what happened to the idea of revamping projectdb?
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<ChristophD> and while I'm not partial to one approach or another I do agree with SJ that a decision to use a single system should be made one way or another
<Caryl> could we do both in case someone is "lost in the wiki?"
<CanoeBerry> It remains too incomplete of an idea
<CanoeBerry> ProjectDB's structured DB has +'s but many, many -'S
<CanoeBerry> And security holes we need to put an end to.
<CanoeBerry> And failure to ask shipping state/province etc.
<Caryl> Actually, I agree with SJ. Just don't want folks to end up in the wrong one
<anil_> sure. Whatever the new version, can we point to a "super-example" (like HA/DR 34887) at the form page for people to understand what it means to be specific ? The more we help them with examples, the clearer the outcome
<CanoeBerry> SJ wants ProjectDB ended this week. But I want to hear other voices.
<CanoeBerry> I believe "6 beauty projects" will be key.
<CanoeBerry> Ppl need to see a gorgeous representative Enviro Prjct.
<ChristophD> when is that v3.0 coming out?
<CanoeBerry> - Health Prjct
<CanoeBerry> - HW Prjct
<CanoeBerry> - SW Prjct
<CanoeBerry> - Pedagogy Prjct
<CanoeBerry> - Etc
<ChristophD> because I'm sceptical of anything Wiki based and would much prefer a real web based system
<CanoeBerry> Rules & Bureaucracy scare ppl away :)
<CanoeBerry> There's no need for much Wiki. This would be an email/RT-based system for now.
<CanoeBerry> With some Wiki full-public transparency wherever possible, yes.
<Caryl> I don't like ProjectsDB. Not user friendly, encourages lousy apps. Not anything like a standard grant application process.
<ChristophD> I'll make so to include a whole chapter on the CP in my OLPC book: devel@laptop.org => projectdb => RT => v3.0 => ???
<CanoeBerry> I've had some very hostile comments from applicants about ProjectDB, yes.
<ChristophD> glad we're not wasting time and energy on system transitions every 6 months
<CanoeBerry> RT ~= v2.0
<ChristophD> okay, rant over
<ChristophD> ;)
<Caryl> Add mine!
<CanoeBerry> The experimental v3.0 we will talk about Sun Mch 8. With one its main
architects joining us on the call I hope.
<Caryl> Fun!
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<CanoeBerry> v3.0 won't just be about CP however; it's intended to be a Social Network for projects of all magnitude and all stripe, whether or not folks need HW. We shall see where this goes; it has a lot of potential.
<CanoeBerry> But for now, let's stick to reality, this v2.0 stuff :)
<CanoeBerry> OK, let's wrap up now as 3PM approached in 4min.
<Caryl> Lunch is calling
<CanoeBerry> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Contributors_program needs a massive overhaul--who will help me?
<CanoeBerry> anil_ ?
<CanoeBerry> others ?
<anil_> sure. specific thoughts?
<Caryl> not till a couple of weeks after CUE. Too much follow-up needed. Roadshows are more work than I expected
<CanoeBerry> Let's talk by phone. SJ favors whitewashing most of the cruft from the existing [[Contributors program]] page, and I tend to agree.
<hullaw> count me in...as a helper :)
<CanoeBerry> We need a *serious* spring cleaning.
<anil_> I mean you wouldnt want my version of overhaul ;)
<CanoeBerry> hullaw: awesome
<Caryl> I will be sending people there from CUE and sent a lot from SCaLE
<CanoeBerry> hullaw & anil_: plz help me edit the talk page ( http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Talk:Contributors_program ) if you are nervous about directly freshening up the pg itself
<CanoeBerry> *** We don't need to market ourselves as crassly as http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Pretty_Pretty_Princess but we defin need Pretty Face after 2 yrs now or burning bridges on one the most awe-inspiring offering this OLPC/Sugar community has to offer ***
<anil_> ok. lets discuss over phone
<CanoeBerry> hullaw & anil_: let's talk by phone. End of meeting?
<CanoeBerry> Final comments?
<Culseg> CP program should generate some new requests from emerging OLPC Corps teams
<hullaw> sure
<anil_> when's the call?
<anil_> Im ok with now. 408.xxx.xxxx
<CanoeBerry> OK!
<hullaw> same 435.xxx.xxxx
<ChristophD> over an out, speak soon
<CanoeBerry> OK's I'll call you both in 5. Thanks ChristophD & Culseg & countles others...
<Caryl> I'm out to lunch but will leave the computer on to see what I miss
<ChristophD> speak to you on Sunday, enjoy your weekend until then
<Culseg> I will catch up later
<CanoeBerry> DONE. Bye til next week. Others who want to directly help Mentoring (our most critical need!) plz join here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Support_Gang