Repair centers/Mar 20 2008: Difference between revisions

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<mvn071> how XO's are expected in Birmingham?
<mvn071> how XO's are expected in Birmingham?
<TTown> 1000 on April 15
* <TTown> 1000 on April 15
<TTown> Remaining 14000 later this year.
* <TTown> Remaining 14000 later this year.
<mvn071> how XS are you planning the setup XS boxes?
* <mvn071> how XS are you planning the setup XS boxes?
<mvn071> central config/install/updates with puppet or so?
* <mvn071> central config/install/updates with puppet or so?
<humble-van> humble-van --> Scott from Vancouver, Canada
* <humble-van> humble-van --> Scott from Vancouver, Canada
<swansong> Call is beginning
* <swansong> Call is beginning
<swansong> Kim speaking
* <swansong> Kim speaking
<swansong> Birmingham next major deploy.
* <swansong> Birmingham next major deploy.
<humble-van> org I work with is http://freegeekvancouver.org
* <humble-van> org I work with is http://freegeekvancouver.org
<swansong> Looking at model for getting repair centers.
* <swansong> Looking at model for getting repair centers.
<swansong> Collecting ideas: non profits, profit-based, etc. Then, what is the best way to get them off the ground, availability of parts, etc.
* <swansong> Collecting ideas: non profits, profit-based, etc. Then, what is the best way to get them off the ground, availability of parts, etc.
<mchua> is there a target date for when these repair centers should be able to "get off the ground"? (this may not be the right question to ask)
* <mchua> is there a target date for when these repair centers should be able to "get off the ground"? (this may not be the right question to ask)
<swansong> Kim speaking on issues with parts
* <swansong> Kim speaking on issues with parts
<swansong> getting reasonable costs for spares
* <swansong> getting reasonable costs for spares
<mchua> (I am, however, asking it because it seems like a lot of repair centers are stuck at the "...but we need parts!" issue)
* <mchua> (I am, however, asking it because it seems like a lot of repair centers are stuck at the "...but we need parts!" issue)
<swansong> so who will warehouse
* <swansong> so who will warehouse
Mar 20 14:11:37 * mchua is Mel, btw
* Mar 20 14:11:37 * mchua is Mel, btw
<swansong> working with Brightstar
* <swansong> working with Brightstar
<swansong> To get started, Brightstar will sell small numbers (tens of something) instead of usual minimum (O(1000))
* <swansong> To get started, Brightstar will sell small numbers (tens of something) instead of usual minimum (O(1000))
<swansong> over time, they want people to have direct part purchase planning
* <swansong> over time, they want people to have direct part purchase planning
<mchua> what does that mean?
* <mchua> what does that mean?
<swansong> err, not planning, capability
* <swansong> err, not planning, capability
<mchua> as in "here, a website with a shopping cart... I want 15 antennae"?
* <mchua> as in "here, a website with a shopping cart... I want 15 antennae"?
<swansong> eventually, quanta wants people buying from *quanta's* supplier
* <swansong> eventually, quanta wants people buying from *quanta's* supplier
<swansong> I think more that Brightstar wants to get out of the business of subwarehousing, but that is Scott's interpretation, not Kim/Adam canon
* <swansong> I think more that Brightstar wants to get out of the business of subwarehousing, but that is Scott's interpretation, not Kim/Adam canon
<swansong> This is future plans, at which point D-stock and M-stock would be insufficient
* <swansong> This is future plans, at which point D-stock and M-stock would be insufficient
<mvn071> what is d/n stock?
* <mvn071> what is d/n stock?
<mvn071> d-m
* <mvn071> d-m
<swansong> Using D-stock and M-stock to launch nonprofit repair centers is a good idea, tho
* <swansong> Using D-stock and M-stock to launch nonprofit repair centers is a good idea, tho
<swansong> Adam is speaking to minimum quantity on keyboards right now
* <swansong> Adam is speaking to minimum quantity on keyboards right now
<swansong> being taken offline
* <swansong> being taken offline
<swansong> question asked about D- and M- stocks
* <swansong> question asked about D- and M- stocks
<swansong> M-stock is XOs identified at Brightstar as returns with problems usable only for parts or deep repair
* <swansong> M-stock is XOs identified at Brightstar as returns with problems usable only for parts or deep repair
<swansong> quantity is silly (97)
* <swansong> quantity is silly (97)
<mchua> D-stock and M-stock == returned laptops, broken laptops
* <mchua> D-stock and M-stock == returned laptops, broken laptops
<swansong> D-stock: DOAs.
* <swansong> D-stock: DOAs.
<mchua> (what scott said)
* <mchua> (what scott said)
<swansong> Currently, O(200) [actually 138 remaining] of D-stock. These are funded, if you will, by G1G1 RMAs
* <swansong> Currently, O(200) [actually 138 remaining] of D-stock. These are funded, if you will, by G1G1 RMAs
<swansong> 80,000+ total quantity of Give1Get1s, and that is now a closed stock.
* <swansong> 80,000+ total quantity of Give1Get1s, and that is now a closed stock.
<swansong> aholt believes that the numbers will double. Kim dissents.
* <swansong> aholt believes that the numbers will double. Kim dissents.
<swansong> aholt believes that double is due to lag of support requests. Kim acquiesced that delay may cause up to doubling.
* <swansong> aholt believes that double is due to lag of support requests. Kim acquiesced that delay may cause up to doubling.
<swansong> Moraine Valley Community College (SW Chicago) group speaking now (Larry Langellier & Steve Mastej)
* <swansong> Moraine Valley Community College (SW Chicago) group speaking now (Larry Langellier & Steve Mastej)
<swansong> ideas about campus clubs, jam sessions
* <swansong> ideas about campus clubs, jam sessions
<swansong> noncredit courses at college
* <swansong> noncredit courses at college
<swansong> advice to other colleges who want to do that.
* <swansong> advice to other colleges who want to do that.
<swansong> second proposal: create an actual repair center. question: where do parts come from?
* <swansong> second proposal: create an actual repair center. question: where do parts come from?
Mar 20 14:21:04 * mchua wishes to raise the issue of "certification" of repair centers - are we doing it? (personally I hope not)
* Mar 20 14:21:04 * mchua wishes to raise the issue of "certification" of repair centers - are we doing it? (personally I hope not)
<swansong> question is for repair center, how much do you charge?
* <swansong> question is for repair center, how much do you charge?
<swansong> kim responds that people will probably not pay US$200 to repair a "US$200" G1G1 unit
* <swansong> kim responds that people will probably not pay US$200 to repair a "US$200" G1G1 unit
<TTown> accrediting centers would be nice - having a way of registering and getting maybe online peer reviews
* <TTown> accrediting centers would be nice - having a way of registering and getting maybe online peer reviews
<TTown> of your repair shop
* <TTown> of your repair shop
<TTown> certification is overkill
* <TTown> certification is overkill
<swansong> larry's concept is a flat exchange
* <swansong> larry's concept is a flat exchange
<swansong> kim just said "certified repair centers"
* <swansong> kim just said "certified repair centers"
<swansong> so this is a good segue -- I will ask when can
* <swansong> so this is a good segue -- I will ask when can
<swansong> wants to avoid scalping
* <swansong> wants to avoid scalping
<swansong> no ability to buy full units, just spare parts, at this time
* <swansong> no ability to buy full units, just spare parts, at this time
<swansong> kim: OLPC wants all people to have a way to get this repaired
* <swansong> kim: OLPC wants all people to have a way to get this repaired
<swansong> kim: much prefers online peer reviews
* <swansong> kim: much prefers online peer reviews
<swansong> pointing people at "where to get it fixed"
* <swansong> pointing people at "where to get it fixed"
<swansong> she feels actual certification IS overkill
* <swansong> she feels actual certification IS overkill
<swansong> and will close things
* <swansong> and will close things
<swansong> might be hard to justify laptops -- if it is hard to justify them, then make it easier, and maybe a certification type thing MIGHT help with that
* <swansong> might be hard to justify laptops -- if it is hard to justify them, then make it easier, and maybe a certification type thing MIGHT help with that
<mchua> I'd rather go with peer reviews and independent groups being able to create their own certifications ("passed MVCC XO-repair test") is better than bottlenecking at OLPC
* <mchua> I'd rather go with peer reviews and independent groups being able to create their own certifications ("passed MVCC XO-repair test") is better than bottlenecking at OLPC
Mar 20 14:25:29 * mchua agrees with kim
* Mar 20 14:25:29 * mchua agrees with kim
<swansong> I think kim is in synch, mchua
* <swansong> I think kim is in synch, mchua
<mchua> yay!
* <mchua> yay!
<mvn071> user rating
* <mvn071> user rating
<mchua> yeah, I got that impression from swansong's notes of what kim said :) just expressing my happiness
* <mchua> yeah, I got that impression from swansong's notes of what kim said :) just expressing my happiness
<swansong> Moving on to Stefan Reitz
* <swansong> Moving on to Stefan Reitz
<swansong> Birmingham, Alabama -- if you want to get involved, info is on the wiki
* <swansong> Birmingham, Alabama -- if you want to get involved, info is on the wiki
<swansong> his dayjob is fixing things, so it looks like this is a serious grassroots effort
* <swansong> his dayjob is fixing things, so it looks like this is a serious grassroots effort
<swansong> since there is going to be 10,000+ installbase
* <swansong> since there is going to be 10,000+ installbase
<swansong> Kim ref'ing the online doc ( http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Repair_center_locations )
* <swansong> Kim ref'ing the online doc ( http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Repair_center_locations )
<swansong> Labor costs in US too high compared to laptop cost
* <swansong> Labor costs in US too high compared to laptop cost
<swansong> so make the parts non-soldered and user-replaceable (this was design theory)
* <swansong> so make the parts non-soldered and user-replaceable (this was design theory)
<swansong> mobo [motherboad] breaking -- example of something supplied only to repair centers doing a good job
* <swansong> mobo [motherboad] breaking -- example of something supplied only to repair centers doing a good job
<swansong> Stefan is wanting to have access to parts/schematics that require solder-level work (components) -- e.g. power transistors
* <swansong> Stefan is wanting to have access to parts/schematics that require solder-level work (components) -- e.g. power transistors
<swansong> Not SOP [/*S*mall *O*utline *P*ackage, a surface mount technology]/, but sort of a "level 2" hardware
* <swansong> Not SOP [/*S*mall *O*utline *P*ackage, a surface mount technology]/, but sort of a "level 2" hardware
<swansong> Kim will look into how schematics are obtained. There are Issues.
* <swansong> Kim will look into how schematics are obtained. There are Issues.
<swansong> [if others think I misquote, PLEASE include/requote/correct]
* <swansong> [if others think I misquote, PLEASE include/requote/correct]
<swansong> Stefan: how do I get spare parts? what's the price break on parts? O(1) vs O(10)?
* <swansong> Stefan: how do I get spare parts? what's the price break on parts? O(1) vs O(10)?
<swansong> Looking for financial viability
* <swansong> Looking for financial viability
<swansong> Local repair centers. With 10-15K units. Bender quoted 1-2% damage rate per year.
* <swansong> Local repair centers. With 10-15K units. Bender quoted 1-2% damage rate per year.
<swansong> He thus estimates that 150-300 per year require intervention
* <swansong> He thus estimates that 150-300 per year require intervention
<mvn071> more over the years
* <mvn071> more over the years
<swansong> Kim: can't make a business on 10-15K units
* <swansong> Kim: can't make a business on 10-15K units
<swansong> there's only 80K units in all of N America, which is hard enough, and then you have shipping
* <swansong> there's only 80K units in all of N America, which is hard enough, and then you have shipping
<mvn071> data recoverage / reinstall
* <mvn071> data recoverage / reinstall
<swansong> 10-15K is just a drop in the bucket for the future
* <swansong> 10-15K is just a drop in the bucket for the future
<swansong> so this is just a slow start
* <swansong> so this is just a slow start
<swansong> so this might make sense for someone to take on the business, to see how it will grow
* <swansong> so this might make sense for someone to take on the business, to see how it will grow
<swansong> Stefan wants to see this expand to other parts of alabama
* <swansong> Stefan wants to see this expand to other parts of alabama
<swansong> Kim: Birmingham sort of caught them by surprise, so cannot comment on rest of AL or US
* <swansong> Kim: Birmingham sort of caught them by surprise, so cannot comment on rest of AL or US
<swansong> Adam: 1% is an important number
* <swansong> Adam: 1% is an important number
< 1% RMA 30day
* < 1% RMA 30day
<swansong> over 5 years, kim points out, will be higher
* <swansong> over 5 years, kim points out, will be higher
<swansong> she needs to look that data up
* <swansong> she needs to look that data up
<mchua> where is the 1% number coming from? pilots?
* <mchua> where is the 1% number coming from? pilots?
<swansong> Walter
* <swansong> Walter
<swansong> 1-2% per year
* <swansong> 1-2% per year
<mchua> (right, but where does walter get that number from?)
* <mchua> (right, but where does walter get that number from?)
<swansong> (stefan corrected)
* <swansong> (stefan corrected)
<1% (hopefully) 30day rma rate - user smash! vs mfg error
* <1% (hopefully) 30day rma rate - user smash! vs mfg error
< where student ownership
* < where student ownership
<swansong> numbers now being investigated
* <swansong> numbers now being investigated
<swansong> XO obviously have different numbers
* <swansong> XO obviously have different numbers
<swansong> we dont know yet
* <swansong> we dont know yet
<swansong> should probably put competitive numbers on wiki page to suss out things
* <swansong> should probably put competitive numbers on wiki page to suss out things
<swansong> (that from kim)
* <swansong> (that from kim)
<swansong> Also, industry starting to see 10% momentary out-of-service numbers in educational 1:1 24-hour mobil programs
* <swansong> Also, industry starting to see 10% momentary out-of-service numbers in educational 1:1 24-hour mobil programs
<swansong> (mobile)
* <swansong> (mobile)
<swansong> Kim: ~300k in service already, keyboard peeloff problem wont be fixed even in the next couple hundred of thousand
* <swansong> Kim: ~300k in service already, keyboard peeloff problem wont be fixed even in the next couple hundred of thousand
<swansong> (XOs)
* <swansong> (XOs)
<swansong> Nikki Lee [in Cambridge, MA w/ Kim & Adam at OLPC office] is hard to hear
* <swansong> Nikki Lee [in Cambridge, MA w/ Kim & Adam at OLPC office] is hard to hear
<swansong> "do stuff on own, be resource to others"
* <swansong> "do stuff on own, be resource to others"
<swansong> Olin wants to pilot
* <swansong> Olin wants to pilot
<swansong> how do things work, documentation and passing info
* <swansong> how do things work, documentation and passing info
<swansong> April-Hope Wareham speaking on IMSA.edu's idea to research project
* <swansong> April-Hope Wareham speaking on IMSA.edu's idea to research project
<swansong> simulate a repair center from anywhere in the world
* <swansong> simulate a repair center from anywhere in the world
<olpc_wad> swansong: Actually, I'm just hanging around from yesterday's meeting. But schematics cannot be released by OLPC
* <olpc_wad> swansong: Actually, I'm just hanging around from yesterday's meeting. But schematics cannot be released by OLPC
<swansong> do a student-run repair center (ages 14-18 techs)
* <swansong> do a student-run repair center (ages 14-18 techs)
<swansong> piloting concept
* <swansong> piloting concept
<swansong> Kim encouraging Olin College and IMSA to work together
* <swansong> Kim encouraging Olin College and IMSA to work together
<swansong> Marten Vijn now speaking from the Netherlands
* <swansong> Marten Vijn now speaking from the Netherlands
<swansong> 5 broken units thus far (if I heard right)
* <swansong> 5 broken units thus far (if I heard right)
<swansong> using scavenging from brokens to repair others.
* <swansong> using scavenging from brokens to repair others.
<swansong> Interest in teaching and learning as a side project, not full time career
* <swansong> Interest in teaching and learning as a side project, not full time career
<swansong> using schools for workforce as a side effect of learning cycle (or learning as side effect of workforce, might be commutative)
* <swansong> using schools for workforce as a side effect of learning cycle (or learning as side effect of workforce, might be commutative)
<swansong> Scott Nelson, Vancouver: Freegeek! http://freegeekvancouver.org (on channel)
* <swansong> Scott Nelson, Vancouver: Freegeek! http://freegeekvancouver.org (on channel)
<swansong> nonprofit -- no interest in competing with local for-profits. He is still waiting for his XO(s).
* <swansong> nonprofit -- no interest in competing with local for-profits. He is still waiting for his XO(s).
<swansong> He does not know of number of units in CA or Van
* <swansong> He does not know of number of units in CA or Van
<swansong> aholt: over 5000 in Canada with "more to come soon"
* <swansong> aholt: over 5000 in Canada with "more to come soon"
<swansong> ScottN: Very DIY. Putting themselves out there as grp that adheres to goals and ideals
* <swansong> ScottN: Very DIY. Putting themselves out there as grp that adheres to goals and ideals
<swansong> looking to host workshops, sessions, etc
* <swansong> looking to host workshops, sessions, etc
<swansong> Adam: pls explain freegeek more
* <swansong> Adam: pls explain freegeek more
<swansong> ScottN: accept donations of old computer hardware, volunteers sort and scavenge (they are trained by org)
* <swansong> ScottN: accept donations of old computer hardware, volunteers sort and scavenge (they are trained by org)
<swansong> Minimum cut for reassembly, lower stuff gets partfarmed
* <swansong> Minimum cut for reassembly, lower stuff gets partfarmed
<swansong> or even metalfarmed
* <swansong> or even metalfarmed
<swansong> the rest: people volunteer for 24 hours to work rebuilding. at end, they get their own from the rebuilds.
* <swansong> the rest: people volunteer for 24 hours to work rebuilding. at end, they get their own from the rebuilds.
<swansong> High end stuff goes into thrift store (parts and units), which generates funds for program
* <swansong> High end stuff goes into thrift store (parts and units), which generates funds for program
<swansong> Non-profits can apply for free hardware
* <swansong> Non-profits can apply for free hardware
<swansong> which they set up with Ubuntu and then give to those agencies
* <swansong> which they set up with Ubuntu and then give to those agencies
<swansong> Kim: Are you interested in repairing XO?
* <swansong> Kim: Are you interested in repairing XO?
<swansong> ScottN: we have a laptop fixit wizard who is very good. they have only been around a year. They do NOT want a warehouse. They don't want to bite off more than they can chew.
* <swansong> ScottN: we have a laptop fixit wizard who is very good. they have only been around a year. They do NOT want a warehouse. They don't want to bite off more than they can chew.
<swansong> They also don't want to deal with post [shipping & handling].
* <swansong> They also don't want to deal with post [shipping & handling].
<swansong> So, maybe, start small - once a month XO repair jam
* <swansong> So, maybe, start small - once a month XO repair jam
<swansong> Three staff members (paid), rest are volunteer. [Sounds awesome, Scott!!]
* <swansong> Three staff members (paid), rest are volunteer. [Sounds awesome, Scott!!]
<swansong> Programs done being discussed/floated. Now, general questions.
* <swansong> Programs done being discussed/floated. Now, general questions.
<humble-van> mirror site: http://cprost.freegeekvancouver.org (slightly out of date, but...)
* <humble-van> mirror site: http://cprost.freegeekvancouver.org (slightly out of date, but...)
<swansong> Kim is hopeful that .edu organizations will be part of this
* <swansong> Kim is hopeful that .edu organizations will be part of this
<humble-van> ( primary site seems slashdotted right now ;-) <swansong> shipping is tough problem for nonprofits. even $5.25 (bulk price) keyboard (aholt)
* <humble-van> ( primary site seems slashdotted right now ;-) <swansong> shipping is tough problem for nonprofits. even $5.25 (bulk price) keyboard (aholt)
<swansong> so this $5.25 is illusory, b/c fulfillment costs for kbd are greater than part cost, so who know what the final price will be
* <swansong> so this $5.25 is illusory, b/c fulfillment costs for kbd are greater than part cost, so who know what the final price will be
<swansong> brightstar is going to charge/defray fulfillment costs to stay profitable itself, so kbds will by definition be substantially more than $5.
* <swansong> brightstar is going to charge/defray fulfillment costs to stay profitable itself, so kbds will by definition be substantially more than $5.
<mchua> are there alternative parts/sources to the official ones for any components? (for instance, the charger plugs discussion)
* <mchua> are there alternative parts/sources to the official ones for any components? (for instance, the charger plugs discussion)
<swansong> a $5 kbd in china has to make it to US ($) and then be warehoused ($) and shipped to repair centers ($)
* <swansong> a $5 kbd in china has to make it to US ($) and then be warehoused ($) and shipped to repair centers ($)
<mchua> (charger plugs discussion == you can use these things to charge your XO instead if you lose your 'official' charger)
* <mchua> (charger plugs discussion == you can use these things to charge your XO instead if you lose your 'official' charger)
<swansong> Olin has been provided with 2 units.
* <swansong> Olin has been provided with 2 units.
<swansong> Marten looking for units
* <swansong> Marten looking for units
<swansong> no, mel, that has not been brought up
* <swansong> no, mel, that has not been brought up
<swansong> Kim: can Marten do send-ins? or just walk-ins.
* <swansong> Kim: can Marten do send-ins? or just walk-ins.
<swansong> Marten will do shipping, but customer pays
* <swansong> Marten will do shipping, but customer pays
<swansong> Kim: Nikki and April-Hope are for training!
* <swansong> Kim: Nikki and April-Hope are for training!
<swansong> (AHW gave me a frightened look .. heh)
* <swansong> (AHW gave me a frightened look .. heh)
<swansong> nikki: will put up place for people to leave comments for what people WANT to do
* <swansong> nikki: will put up place for people to leave comments for what people WANT to do
<swansong> (err, want doc on)
* <swansong> (err, want doc on)
<swansong> Kim: gaping hole: there is no repair manual
* <swansong> Kim: gaping hole: there is no repair manual
<swansong> so let's give olin/IMSA some units to figure that out
* <swansong> so let's give olin/IMSA some units to figure that out
<swansong> [Walter Bender] will be publishing 24 page deployment guide [now posted here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_Guide ]
* <swansong> [Walter Bender] will be publishing 24 page deployment guide [now posted here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_Guide ]
<ahw> we can start a pilot as soon as we get broken units, so i think thats the place Nikki and Stefan and IMSA are at right now
* <ahw> we can start a pilot as soon as we get broken units, so i think thats the place Nikki and Stefan and IMSA are at right now
<swansong> AHW: looking for units as well as simulated numbers for parameters for pilots
* <swansong> AHW: looking for units as well as simulated numbers for parameters for pilots
<swansong> ScottN: looking for some units for parts for seeding repair jams
* <swansong> ScottN: looking for some units for parts for seeding repair jams
<swansong> Kim: who has opened it up?
* <swansong> Kim: who has opened it up?
<swansong> everyone seems to have
* <swansong> everyone seems to have
<swansong> Jim Gerry: who has put it back together?
* <swansong> Jim Gerry: who has put it back together?
<swansong> same answer
* <swansong> same answer
<swansong> MVCC (Moraine Valley) received 12 broken units in late Feb: 8 M stock and 4 D stock. MVCC's Steve Mastej now commenting
* <swansong> MVCC (Moraine Valley) received 12 broken units in late Feb: 8 M stock and 4 D stock. MVCC's Steve Mastej now commenting
<swansong> Steve contends: so what if you've torn and rebuilt -- have you actually repaired it?
* <swansong> Steve contends: so what if you've torn and rebuilt -- have you actually repaired it?
<swansong> Documenting: include times
* <swansong> Documenting: include times
<swansong> Steve contends it's 30 min for teardown to replace state, 1 hr to replace the really cantankerous parts
* <swansong> Steve contends it's 30 min for teardown to replace state, 1 hr to replace the really cantankerous parts
<mchua> Documenting: include who did it (first-time XO tear-downer? 30 years of computer repair experience?)
* <mchua> Documenting: include who did it (first-time XO tear-downer? 30 years of computer repair experience?)
<mchua> (so that times/difficulty can be gauged)
* <mchua> (so that times/difficulty can be gauged)
<swansong> Some DOAs are bricked, and require a surface mount ram replace
* <swansong> Some DOAs are bricked, and require a surface mount ram replace
<CanoeBerry> Skype problem?
* <CanoeBerry> Skype problem?
<TTown> something bad happening to the phone line
* <TTown> something bad happening to the phone line
<CanoeBerry> Plz hang up if you have a speakerphone!
* <CanoeBerry> Plz hang up if you have a speakerphone!
<swansong> 2 levels of bricked: 1 kind repairable.
* <swansong> 2 levels of bricked: 1 kind repairable.
<swansong> Skype?
* <swansong> Skype?
<swansong> [Conference call line fixed itself 1-2min later]
* <swansong> [Conference call line fixed itself 1-2min later]
<cjb> "surface mount ram replace"?
* <cjb> "surface mount ram replace"?
<swansong> 1 cannot.
* <swansong> 1 cannot.
<swansong> sorry, I was transcribing a convo half there when we went into weird line noise space
* <swansong> sorry, I was transcribing a convo half there when we went into weird line noise space
<cjb> Hm, I guess the SPI replacement fits that bill. But a *much* simpler way to fix that DOA is to hook up a serial port.
* <cjb> Hm, I guess the SPI replacement fits that bill. But a *much* simpler way to fix that DOA is to hook up a serial port.
<swansong> SPI replacement, yes
* <swansong> SPI replacement, yes
<swansong> cjb: we're doing them backwards. From totally useless to actually reparable
* <swansong> cjb: we're doing them backwards. From totally useless to actually reparable
<swansong> they're starting to discuss the serial line, but stopped just short
* <swansong> they're starting to discuss the serial line, but stopped just short
<swansong> marten: concern about customs clearance
* <swansong> marten: concern about customs clearance
<swansong> zero value on dead units
* <swansong> zero value on dead units
<swansong> Call closed.
* <swansong> Call closed.
</pre>

Latest revision as of 14:33, 3 April 2008

<mvn071> how XO's are expected in Birmingham?

  • <TTown> 1000 on April 15
  • <TTown> Remaining 14000 later this year.
  • <mvn071> how XS are you planning the setup XS boxes?
  • <mvn071> central config/install/updates with puppet or so?
  • <humble-van> humble-van --> Scott from Vancouver, Canada
  • <swansong> Call is beginning
  • <swansong> Kim speaking
  • <swansong> Birmingham next major deploy.
  • <humble-van> org I work with is http://freegeekvancouver.org
  • <swansong> Looking at model for getting repair centers.
  • <swansong> Collecting ideas: non profits, profit-based, etc. Then, what is the best way to get them off the ground, availability of parts, etc.
  • <mchua> is there a target date for when these repair centers should be able to "get off the ground"? (this may not be the right question to ask)
  • <swansong> Kim speaking on issues with parts
  • <swansong> getting reasonable costs for spares
  • <mchua> (I am, however, asking it because it seems like a lot of repair centers are stuck at the "...but we need parts!" issue)
  • <swansong> so who will warehouse
  • Mar 20 14:11:37 * mchua is Mel, btw
  • <swansong> working with Brightstar
  • <swansong> To get started, Brightstar will sell small numbers (tens of something) instead of usual minimum (O(1000))
  • <swansong> over time, they want people to have direct part purchase planning
  • <mchua> what does that mean?
  • <swansong> err, not planning, capability
  • <mchua> as in "here, a website with a shopping cart... I want 15 antennae"?
  • <swansong> eventually, quanta wants people buying from *quanta's* supplier
  • <swansong> I think more that Brightstar wants to get out of the business of subwarehousing, but that is Scott's interpretation, not Kim/Adam canon
  • <swansong> This is future plans, at which point D-stock and M-stock would be insufficient
  • <mvn071> what is d/n stock?
  • <mvn071> d-m
  • <swansong> Using D-stock and M-stock to launch nonprofit repair centers is a good idea, tho
  • <swansong> Adam is speaking to minimum quantity on keyboards right now
  • <swansong> being taken offline
  • <swansong> question asked about D- and M- stocks
  • <swansong> M-stock is XOs identified at Brightstar as returns with problems usable only for parts or deep repair
  • <swansong> quantity is silly (97)
  • <mchua> D-stock and M-stock == returned laptops, broken laptops
  • <swansong> D-stock: DOAs.
  • <mchua> (what scott said)
  • <swansong> Currently, O(200) [actually 138 remaining] of D-stock. These are funded, if you will, by G1G1 RMAs
  • <swansong> 80,000+ total quantity of Give1Get1s, and that is now a closed stock.
  • <swansong> aholt believes that the numbers will double. Kim dissents.
  • <swansong> aholt believes that double is due to lag of support requests. Kim acquiesced that delay may cause up to doubling.
  • <swansong> Moraine Valley Community College (SW Chicago) group speaking now (Larry Langellier & Steve Mastej)
  • <swansong> ideas about campus clubs, jam sessions
  • <swansong> noncredit courses at college
  • <swansong> advice to other colleges who want to do that.
  • <swansong> second proposal: create an actual repair center. question: where do parts come from?
  • Mar 20 14:21:04 * mchua wishes to raise the issue of "certification" of repair centers - are we doing it? (personally I hope not)
  • <swansong> question is for repair center, how much do you charge?
  • <swansong> kim responds that people will probably not pay US$200 to repair a "US$200" G1G1 unit
  • <TTown> accrediting centers would be nice - having a way of registering and getting maybe online peer reviews
  • <TTown> of your repair shop
  • <TTown> certification is overkill
  • <swansong> larry's concept is a flat exchange
  • <swansong> kim just said "certified repair centers"
  • <swansong> so this is a good segue -- I will ask when can
  • <swansong> wants to avoid scalping
  • <swansong> no ability to buy full units, just spare parts, at this time
  • <swansong> kim: OLPC wants all people to have a way to get this repaired
  • <swansong> kim: much prefers online peer reviews
  • <swansong> pointing people at "where to get it fixed"
  • <swansong> she feels actual certification IS overkill
  • <swansong> and will close things
  • <swansong> might be hard to justify laptops -- if it is hard to justify them, then make it easier, and maybe a certification type thing MIGHT help with that
  • <mchua> I'd rather go with peer reviews and independent groups being able to create their own certifications ("passed MVCC XO-repair test") is better than bottlenecking at OLPC
  • Mar 20 14:25:29 * mchua agrees with kim
  • <swansong> I think kim is in synch, mchua
  • <mchua> yay!
  • <mvn071> user rating
  • <mchua> yeah, I got that impression from swansong's notes of what kim said  :) just expressing my happiness
  • <swansong> Moving on to Stefan Reitz
  • <swansong> Birmingham, Alabama -- if you want to get involved, info is on the wiki
  • <swansong> his dayjob is fixing things, so it looks like this is a serious grassroots effort
  • <swansong> since there is going to be 10,000+ installbase
  • <swansong> Kim ref'ing the online doc ( http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Repair_center_locations )
  • <swansong> Labor costs in US too high compared to laptop cost
  • <swansong> so make the parts non-soldered and user-replaceable (this was design theory)
  • <swansong> mobo [motherboad] breaking -- example of something supplied only to repair centers doing a good job
  • <swansong> Stefan is wanting to have access to parts/schematics that require solder-level work (components) -- e.g. power transistors
  • <swansong> Not SOP [/*S*mall *O*utline *P*ackage, a surface mount technology]/, but sort of a "level 2" hardware
  • <swansong> Kim will look into how schematics are obtained. There are Issues.
  • <swansong> [if others think I misquote, PLEASE include/requote/correct]
  • <swansong> Stefan: how do I get spare parts? what's the price break on parts? O(1) vs O(10)?
  • <swansong> Looking for financial viability
  • <swansong> Local repair centers. With 10-15K units. Bender quoted 1-2% damage rate per year.
  • <swansong> He thus estimates that 150-300 per year require intervention
  • <mvn071> more over the years
  • <swansong> Kim: can't make a business on 10-15K units
  • <swansong> there's only 80K units in all of N America, which is hard enough, and then you have shipping
  • <mvn071> data recoverage / reinstall
  • <swansong> 10-15K is just a drop in the bucket for the future
  • <swansong> so this is just a slow start
  • <swansong> so this might make sense for someone to take on the business, to see how it will grow
  • <swansong> Stefan wants to see this expand to other parts of alabama
  • <swansong> Kim: Birmingham sort of caught them by surprise, so cannot comment on rest of AL or US
  • <swansong> Adam: 1% is an important number
  • < 1% RMA 30day
  • <swansong> over 5 years, kim points out, will be higher
  • <swansong> she needs to look that data up
  • <mchua> where is the 1% number coming from? pilots?
  • <swansong> Walter
  • <swansong> 1-2% per year
  • <mchua> (right, but where does walter get that number from?)
  • <swansong> (stefan corrected)
  • <1% (hopefully) 30day rma rate - user smash! vs mfg error
  • < where student ownership
  • <swansong> numbers now being investigated
  • <swansong> XO obviously have different numbers
  • <swansong> we dont know yet
  • <swansong> should probably put competitive numbers on wiki page to suss out things
  • <swansong> (that from kim)
  • <swansong> Also, industry starting to see 10% momentary out-of-service numbers in educational 1:1 24-hour mobil programs
  • <swansong> (mobile)
  • <swansong> Kim: ~300k in service already, keyboard peeloff problem wont be fixed even in the next couple hundred of thousand
  • <swansong> (XOs)
  • <swansong> Nikki Lee [in Cambridge, MA w/ Kim & Adam at OLPC office] is hard to hear
  • <swansong> "do stuff on own, be resource to others"
  • <swansong> Olin wants to pilot
  • <swansong> how do things work, documentation and passing info
  • <swansong> April-Hope Wareham speaking on IMSA.edu's idea to research project
  • <swansong> simulate a repair center from anywhere in the world
  • <olpc_wad> swansong: Actually, I'm just hanging around from yesterday's meeting. But schematics cannot be released by OLPC
  • <swansong> do a student-run repair center (ages 14-18 techs)
  • <swansong> piloting concept
  • <swansong> Kim encouraging Olin College and IMSA to work together
  • <swansong> Marten Vijn now speaking from the Netherlands
  • <swansong> 5 broken units thus far (if I heard right)
  • <swansong> using scavenging from brokens to repair others.
  • <swansong> Interest in teaching and learning as a side project, not full time career
  • <swansong> using schools for workforce as a side effect of learning cycle (or learning as side effect of workforce, might be commutative)
  • <swansong> Scott Nelson, Vancouver: Freegeek! http://freegeekvancouver.org (on channel)
  • <swansong> nonprofit -- no interest in competing with local for-profits. He is still waiting for his XO(s).
  • <swansong> He does not know of number of units in CA or Van
  • <swansong> aholt: over 5000 in Canada with "more to come soon"
  • <swansong> ScottN: Very DIY. Putting themselves out there as grp that adheres to goals and ideals
  • <swansong> looking to host workshops, sessions, etc
  • <swansong> Adam: pls explain freegeek more
  • <swansong> ScottN: accept donations of old computer hardware, volunteers sort and scavenge (they are trained by org)
  • <swansong> Minimum cut for reassembly, lower stuff gets partfarmed
  • <swansong> or even metalfarmed
  • <swansong> the rest: people volunteer for 24 hours to work rebuilding. at end, they get their own from the rebuilds.
  • <swansong> High end stuff goes into thrift store (parts and units), which generates funds for program
  • <swansong> Non-profits can apply for free hardware
  • <swansong> which they set up with Ubuntu and then give to those agencies
  • <swansong> Kim: Are you interested in repairing XO?
  • <swansong> ScottN: we have a laptop fixit wizard who is very good. they have only been around a year. They do NOT want a warehouse. They don't want to bite off more than they can chew.
  • <swansong> They also don't want to deal with post [shipping & handling].
  • <swansong> So, maybe, start small - once a month XO repair jam
  • <swansong> Three staff members (paid), rest are volunteer. [Sounds awesome, Scott!!]
  • <swansong> Programs done being discussed/floated. Now, general questions.
  • <humble-van> mirror site: http://cprost.freegeekvancouver.org (slightly out of date, but...)
  • <swansong> Kim is hopeful that .edu organizations will be part of this
  • <humble-van> ( primary site seems slashdotted right now  ;-) <swansong> shipping is tough problem for nonprofits. even $5.25 (bulk price) keyboard (aholt)
  • <swansong> so this $5.25 is illusory, b/c fulfillment costs for kbd are greater than part cost, so who know what the final price will be
  • <swansong> brightstar is going to charge/defray fulfillment costs to stay profitable itself, so kbds will by definition be substantially more than $5.
  • <mchua> are there alternative parts/sources to the official ones for any components? (for instance, the charger plugs discussion)
  • <swansong> a $5 kbd in china has to make it to US ($) and then be warehoused ($) and shipped to repair centers ($)
  • <mchua> (charger plugs discussion == you can use these things to charge your XO instead if you lose your 'official' charger)
  • <swansong> Olin has been provided with 2 units.
  • <swansong> Marten looking for units
  • <swansong> no, mel, that has not been brought up
  • <swansong> Kim: can Marten do send-ins? or just walk-ins.
  • <swansong> Marten will do shipping, but customer pays
  • <swansong> Kim: Nikki and April-Hope are for training!
  • <swansong> (AHW gave me a frightened look .. heh)
  • <swansong> nikki: will put up place for people to leave comments for what people WANT to do
  • <swansong> (err, want doc on)
  • <swansong> Kim: gaping hole: there is no repair manual
  • <swansong> so let's give olin/IMSA some units to figure that out
  • <swansong> [Walter Bender] will be publishing 24 page deployment guide [now posted here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_Guide ]
  • <ahw> we can start a pilot as soon as we get broken units, so i think thats the place Nikki and Stefan and IMSA are at right now
  • <swansong> AHW: looking for units as well as simulated numbers for parameters for pilots
  • <swansong> ScottN: looking for some units for parts for seeding repair jams
  • <swansong> Kim: who has opened it up?
  • <swansong> everyone seems to have
  • <swansong> Jim Gerry: who has put it back together?
  • <swansong> same answer
  • <swansong> MVCC (Moraine Valley) received 12 broken units in late Feb: 8 M stock and 4 D stock. MVCC's Steve Mastej now commenting
  • <swansong> Steve contends: so what if you've torn and rebuilt -- have you actually repaired it?
  • <swansong> Documenting: include times
  • <swansong> Steve contends it's 30 min for teardown to replace state, 1 hr to replace the really cantankerous parts
  • <mchua> Documenting: include who did it (first-time XO tear-downer? 30 years of computer repair experience?)
  • <mchua> (so that times/difficulty can be gauged)
  • <swansong> Some DOAs are bricked, and require a surface mount ram replace
  • <CanoeBerry> Skype problem?
  • <TTown> something bad happening to the phone line
  • <CanoeBerry> Plz hang up if you have a speakerphone!
  • <swansong> 2 levels of bricked: 1 kind repairable.
  • <swansong> Skype?
  • <swansong> [Conference call line fixed itself 1-2min later]
  • <cjb> "surface mount ram replace"?
  • <swansong> 1 cannot.
  • <swansong> sorry, I was transcribing a convo half there when we went into weird line noise space
  • <cjb> Hm, I guess the SPI replacement fits that bill. But a *much* simpler way to fix that DOA is to hook up a serial port.
  • <swansong> SPI replacement, yes
  • <swansong> cjb: we're doing them backwards. From totally useless to actually reparable
  • <swansong> they're starting to discuss the serial line, but stopped just short
  • <swansong> marten: concern about customs clearance
  • <swansong> zero value on dead units
  • <swansong> Call closed.
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