Contributors program/August 7, 2009

[ AGENDA ]

   * New projects & libraries -- teaching them Community Outreach:
     http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects#XO_Laptop_Lending_Libraries

   * Which projects might you enjoy Mentoring?!
     http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects
     http://rt.laptop.org/Search/Results.html?Query=Queue=%27contributors%27

   * Fast Review of the 2 latest (greatest!) HW/Project Proposals -- please
     join us advocating for and/or reviewing shortcomings of these proposals:

     #1 Notalon: New Note-Taking Software - Harvard/Cambridge, MA, USA
     #2 OLPC Philippines - Kindling Discoveries Pilot Program
     #3 OLPC Bayern Library - Munich/Munchen, Germany


[ INTROS ]

<CanoeBerry> Hi!
<CanoeBerry> Contributor Program Meeting starts now, my apologies for the delay..
<gintasdx> Hi :)
<ramoonas> hey Adam
<CanoeBerry> Welcome ALL
<CanoeBerry> Agenda Here: http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2009-August/025342.html
<CanoeBerry> gintasdx: Please introduce yourself if you can :)
<gintasdx> Just a contributtor from Lithuania :)
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<sandrat> hello sorry to be late
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<CanoeBerry> Welcome sandrat & bemasc, time to start!
<CanoeBerry> Again the agenda: http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2009-August/025342.html
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<CanoeBerry> 3 projects from Massachusetts, Philippine and Germany...
<CanoeBerry> ramoonas: get those baltics moving, we need projects/libraries up in the Arctic too ;)
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<CanoeBerry> In other news, I apologize that a few shipments to Kenya, Uruguay, Philippines and Los Angeles were delayed, but are now moving out.
* dwmw2 is now known as dwmw2_gone
<CanoeBerry> Those folks should finally get their DHL/Fedex tracking numbers over by Mondayish :)
<CanoeBerry> So let's begin, OK?
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[ PROJECT #1 : Notalon: New Note-Taking Software - Harvard/Cambridge, MA, USA ]

<CanoeBerry> Project #1: Notalon: New Note-Taking Software - Cambridge, MA, USA
<CanoeBerry>    http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=45208
<CanoeBerry>    http://hg.notalon.org/saketh/notalon
<CanoeBerry>    Requests 1 XO's over 9 months
<sandrat> ok  I'm checking out first project
<CanoeBerry> Project Objectives:
<CanoeBerry>    Project Objectives: Develop a version of Notalon for the XO that allows
<CanoeBerry>    students to take notes on books and during lectures within an application
<CanoeBerry>    specifically designed for note-taking, encouraging organizational skills.
<CanoeBerry> Please all provide feedback on above!
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<mafe> wow...i like this idea...
<mafe> this will make the XO more useable....
<CanoeBerry> eKindlingRy: welcome and please introduce yourself if you can.
<CanoeBerry> We are reviewing a Harvard student
<eKindlingRy> Hi all, good morning and good afternoon at the same time..
<eKindlingRy> My name is Ryan and I am representing eKindling from the Philippines
<CanoeBerry> s project providing a new Note-Taking software Activity for Sugar hopefully :)
<eKindlingRy> Thanks for having me :)
<CanoeBerry> Welcome Ryan, are you in Manila?
<eKindlingRy> yes, I am in Metro-Manila right now
<CanoeBerry> Great.  Now let's see a show of hands for Project #1 -- any objections on this small but very intriguing project?
<mafe> so it's your 2am ...wow...
<gintasdx> It's very useful and we save few trees if XO users don't use paper for notes. :)
<CanoeBerry> We may be able to provide him (applicant) an XO right here in Cambride, MA directly..
<mafe> yes...and it's useful
<eKindlingRy> yep so bare with me!
<CanoeBerry> Any other votes/objections?
<ramoonas> CanoeBerry, i agree, it is a good project
<CanoeBerry> Last call?
<CanoeBerry> OK: Approved!


[ PROJECT #2 : OLPC Philippines - Kindling Discoveries Pilot Program ]

<CanoeBerry> Onto Project #2:
<CanoeBerry> OLPC Philippines: Kindling Discoveries Pilot Program
<CanoeBerry>    http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=45453
<CanoeBerry>    http://ekindling.org
<CanoeBerry>    http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Project/ekindling
<CanoeBerry>    http://twitter.com/eKindling
<CanoeBerry>    http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Kindling_Discoveries_Series
<sandrat> This looks good to me.  Already has an application, and it has a good use, notetaking may never go away, very popular in African schools, where paper and trees are in short supply
<CanoeBerry> Requests 50 XO's over 12 months
<CanoeBerry>    Project Objectives:
<CanoeBerry>    1. Successfully design and deploy a scalable and sustainable pilot 
<CanoeBerry> program in an elementary public school with an inaugural class of 30-35 
<CanoeBerry> students.
<CanoeBerry>    2. Use good and best practices from initial pilot program to support 
<CanoeBerry> XO deployment programs throughout the Philippines.
<CanoeBerry>    3. Facilitate development of Philippine-centric content for XO 
<CanoeBerry> laptops with partner academic institutions and volunteer developers.
<CanoeBerry>    4. Grow community of different stakeholders/supporters ranging from 
<CanoeBerry> educators, academic institutions, developers, business leaders, 
<CanoeBerry> philanthropist, etc. that can support future deployment and content 
<CanoeBerry> development.
<CanoeBerry>    5. Share best deployment practices and valuable content for the 
<CanoeBerry> benefit of the global OLPC community.
<CanoeBerry> Sorry for the formatting above.  Plz read the 5 above sites carefully!
<CanoeBerry> Let me know if you need RT.laptop.org access and want to join OLPC's Support Team.
<mafe> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Project/ekindling/Kindling_Discovery_Pilot2009
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<mafe> inputs are very much welcome and appreciated....
<ramoonas> Seems like a good project, i dont see anything wrong with it.
<ramoonas> is it already started?
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<eKindlingRy> We have already formalized the group and are in the process of incorporating
<eKindlingRy> to take in donations
<CanoeBerry> Please all run the meeting yourselves for 5 minutes reviewing this very important project as I have to run to say goodbye to our summer legal intern (her party right now).
<eKindlingRy> also in the process of finalizing  Memorandum of agreements with partner Universities
<ramoonas> eKindlingRy. ok :) sounds fun :)
<eKindlingRy> so things are already set in motion
<CanoeBerry> While 50-XO deployment are not supported by OLPC's Contributors Program as a general rule, we need to look at what is actually possible here, particularly what the project will give back to other OLPC/Sugar projects around the world :)
<mafe> this is the first pilot initiatives for the Philippines
<gintasdx1> eKindlingRy I wish to see this project in developmnt stage :P
<eKindlingRy> well, we are trying to accomplish multiple things through this program
<CanoeBerry> OK, I'll be back in 5 min -- please all take a tough look at all the important issues here :)
<ramoonas> eKindlingRy, what things?
<eKindlingRy> there is a strong and large community of developers in the Philippines
<eKindlingRy> that are both active and inactive in this project..
<sandrat> This is well put together.  Where is the center, The project is owned by everyone, but there needs to be a core center and place to provide the evidence,  feedback loop on successful shared practices etc.  I don't see this part in this project
<eKindlingRy> With our partner university, specifically, Asia Pacific College, and other volunteer developers
<sandrat> I don't see the project structure is what I am saying, the rollout process definition
<sandrat> So the Asia Pacific College is the core group who will be responsible for the rollout of this project?
<CanoeBerry> OK, I'm finally leaving for 5 min -- when I get back we have to get realistic on how many XO's we can support for a project that has not yet had an allocation.
<eKindlingRy> Hi everyone
<eKindlingRy> do you still see what I am typing?
<sandrat> yes
<mafe> yes
<ramoonas> yes
<mafe> eKindlingRy you still on
<sandrat> Is there a group of faculty committed to this project at APC
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<mafe> sdandrat: yes...and there are also core team that are involve...
<sandrat> community of developers is good, but I don't see the structure of the group yet
<eKindlingRy> Hi all, sorry I got logged off..my internet connection is terrible..am in the philippines right now
<eKindlingRy> Yes there is a structure to the group
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<eKindlingRy> This is where eKindling comes into play
<eKindlingRy> we are in the process of incorporating right now
<sandrat> Ques.  community of developers is good, but I don't see the structure of the group yet
<eKindlingRy> and the core team consist of different expertise that can undertake the deployment
<mafe> we have the OLPC-Ph community ...
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<eKindlingRy> so sorry guys, can you repeat your questions
<sandrat> the core team is in the phillipines?  and have already an org relationship.. this is good
<mafe> that started last year...
<eKindlingRy> I just want to make sure I am answering them
<eKindlingRy> the core team is in the Philippines..
<mafe> sandrat:yes...
<sandrat> What is the role of the college? and committement?
<eKindlingRy> APC will play a large role
<eKindlingRy> they are a center one of out 9 centers of excellence in the philippines
<sandrat> more on the role...
<eKindlingRy> they will play a big role in content development
<sandrat> great
<eKindlingRy> curriculum design as well as teacher training
<mafe> sandrtat: content development
<eKindlingRy> they are actually going to structure a new department focusing on IT in education
<sandrat> sounds very good
<eKindlingRy> and they want their 4th year students to create content
<mafe> sandrat: and some universities for XO software development
<sandrat> what is the staging and timeframe
<eKindlingRy> So APC wants to get the ball rolling in terms of identifying the needs of the school in September
<eKindlingRy> and begin to create and match content on the basis of those needs
<sandrat> OK 1. Identify needs 2 :  match needs 3.
<eKindlingRy> We hope to begin training teacher on basic use  by December..
<eKindlingRy> and have the actually deployment by January after break
<sandrat> sorry forgot how many XO to be deployed 500 was it?
<ramoonas> 50
<eKindlingRy> only 50
<sandrat> OK.. that's a manageable number
<eKindlingRy> classrooms range from 40-80
<eKindlingRy> but we want to work with a class of 35 if possible, so that we can truly monitor their progress
<sandrat> sounds very good
<eKindlingRy> I just want to note that numerous non-profit organization, faculty from universities, developers have already approached us about starting pilot program..
<eKindlingRy> this will serve as our foundation, and hopefully our model for further deployments..
<sandrat> great.. momentum is important
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<CanoeBerry> ok
<sandrat> I like the realistic size of the goals and timeframe looks realistic also
<eKindlingRy> yea,  this will be amazing for our momentum
<sandrat> and great resources
<sandrat> +1
<mafe> any inputs/objections from the group?
<ramoonas> +1
<mafe> +1
<ramoonas> eKindlingRy, how can we help?
<CanoeBerry> Who are the kids?
<ramoonas> i mean i help
<CanoeBerry> Sorry please help me review.
<eKindlingRy> the kids are from urban poor communities
<CanoeBerry> And what is being offered to the OLPC/Sugar community?
<eKindlingRy> in Metro Manila
<eKindlingRy> we are large on content development..and we know the importance of it
<gintasdx1> +1
<eKindlingRy> we focus on content, not simply the vehicle..
<eKindlingRy> and also, we offer deployment lessons from our pilot program
<mafe> ramoonas: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects/ekindling#Get_Involved
<CanoeBerry> Where is the specific school, who is the principal and specific teachers involved?
<CanoeBerry> This need not be public but it must be in the proposal.
<eKindlingRy> we are learning from OLE Nepal, Waveplace, and Teaching Matters right now
<CanoeBerry> Privacy will be protected.
<eKindlingRy> and it would be great to get more mentorship in terms of deployment design,
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<eKindlingRy> we are learning from past evaluations, and it would be great to get more
help on that
<CanoeBerry> Caryl: welcome
<CanoeBerry> Caryl: please review the PDF here..
<mafe> Caryl: nice to see you here
<CanoeBerry> http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Attachment/635135/348936/Kindling%20Discoveries%20Contributor%20Program.pdf
<eKindlingRy> Actually, we have numerous schools to select from..
<eKindlingRy> so we are still in the screening process..and make sure that they meet our criteria
<CanoeBerry> OK, then 50 is inappropriate at this time.
<eKindlingRy> We will have a discovery session late August
<CanoeBerry> My apologies, but let's deal with the present for now.
<eKindlingRy> early september
<eKindlingRy> where we invite the interested schools to join to really learn
<eKindlingRy> about what it is
<eKindlingRy> By september we will have a school selected,
<CanoeBerry> OK, should we cancel this proposal until September?  Or do you wish a small initial allotment for preparatory work?
<sandrat> I have to leave the call.  Nail down the numbers and dates and sounds good to me.  Also German manual next item looks good very realistic
<CanoeBerry> sandrat: thanks and talk soon!
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<eKindlingRy> Right now, our top school in the running is SagipBata
<mafe> sandrat: kenyan projects update
<CanoeBerry> sandrat: please keep in close touch so the 3+3+3 initial XO's I sent to your friends in Kenya are properly prep'd.
<mafe> sandrat: talk soon
<eKindlingRy> which means saving children
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<CanoeBerry> yevlempy: welcome!
<yevlempy> CanoeBerry: hello.
<eKindlingRy> I urge you not to cancel the proposal until September
<CanoeBerry> Can someone now review what eKindling wants in the short term? (TODAY)
<mafe> CanoeBerry: we have Sagip Bata sessions going...
<CanoeBerry> If not we need to put this proposal on hold.
<eKindlingRy> We think  it to be very important that we really screen the school, and give them a strong briefing on what this program is about
<CanoeBerry> Time is running out and we need to move onto the German proposal.
<CanoeBerry> eKindlingRy: strongly agreed.
<eKindlingRy> because after all they will be our partner for the first pilot program
<dgd> is this only for OLPC or do SUGAR issues figure here as well?
<CanoeBerry> dgd: indeed
<eKindlingRy> Sugar plays a very important role
<mafe> dgd: yes...both olpc and sugar
<CanoeBerry> dgd: Sugar and/or OLPC must benefit from the Project.
<eKindlingRy> that was drew Asia Pacific College into the partnership
<eKindlingRy> WE also have a talk in September about Sugar
<eKindlingRy> Both Jerome Gotangco and Sandeep will be speaking in the largest developer gathering in the Philippines..
<eKindlingRy> in early September
<eKindlingRy> and we want to showcase the beginning of our pilot program to increase awareness
<CanoeBerry> Fantastic, do they need XO's for that?
<dgd> suggestion then to other than English speaking Sugar/OLPC users... please post screencasts of your successes and problems with Sugar... to increase awareness and provide training to interested parties...
<CanoeBerry> What other specific community deliverables are being offered to OLPC/Sugar worldwide?
<eKindlingRy> we are also pooling in Caroline Meeks for a Kindling Discoveries Open Talks
<mafe> dgd: great inputs...we'll do that
<CanoeBerry> OK, we need to move on now.  I suggest we reconsider this project next week.  Same time, same place.  The proposal lacks specificity.
<CanoeBerry> Next week we will need:
<CanoeBerry> (1) specific (non-vague) deliverables which will be offered to Sugar/OLPC
<CanoeBerry> (2) early school details (privacy will be protected)
<eKindlingRy> ok great we will pull that in for you
<dgd> CanoeBerry: Where? On the OLPC wiki? Sugar wiki?
<CanoeBerry> Proposals are always emailed to contributors@laptop.org
<CanoeBerry> Teams are encouraged to post as much of their proposals as possible publicly off of wiki.laptop.org, eg:
<eKindlingRy> ok great..
<eKindlingRy> we will email it to you
<CanoeBerry> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Project/ekindling
<eKindlingRy> and post it on our
<eKindlingRy> wiki
<eKindlingRy> also, is there anything else you need from us
<eKindlingRy> so that we clearly address your questions?
<eKindlingRy> I will also pull in a faculty member from Asia Pacific College, and Jerome Gotangco as well who is heading our technology side..
<CanoeBerry> Yes, I would suggest (3) short-term needs, since the Contributors Program very rarely supports classroom/pilot/deployments, unless the group has delivered stellar prior work
<CanoeBerry> In short, you are much more likely to be approved if you prepare a strong team applying for up-to-10 XO Laptops initially, and pulish your work.
<CanoeBerry> Mafe & I will help you here if nec.
<CanoeBerry> Time to move on :)
<CanoeBerry> Onto Project #...
<CanoeBerry> #3
<dgd> http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=pleabargain&view=videos&query=sugar 28 + training and bug videos for Sugar
<mafe> ekindlingry: thanks ...
<eKindlingRy> hey everyone..thank you so much
<CanoeBerry> Thanks all for investing so much work into these Filipino efforts.  Your community-building is the most impressive I've seen.
<CanoeBerry> Now you need to deliver :)
<eKindlingRy> and I will return next week to address your question..
...
<eKindlingRy> well we do our best, because we want our vision to be realized
...
<eKindlingRy> see you guys next week!
<CanoeBerry> eKindlingRy: thank you and goodbye!
<ramoonas> edmcnierney, bye
<ramoonas> eKindlingRy, bye
<ramoonas> sorry
<ramoonas> ;)


[ PROJECT #3 : OLPC Bayern Library - Munich/Munchen, Germany ]

<CanoeBerry> OK, onto Project #3:
<CanoeBerry> 3. OLPC Bayern Library - Munich/Munchen, Germany
<CanoeBerry>    http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=45454
<CanoeBerry>    http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Bayern (NEEDS REVISING)
<CanoeBerry>    Requests 15 XO's over 18 months
<eKindlingRy> well we do our best, because we want our vision to be realized
<CanoeBerry> Project Objectives:
<CanoeBerry>    Translate the english manuals into a German/understandable version.
<CanoeBerry>    Examine the look and feel of the laptop and how to provide more
<CanoeBerry>    useful online help on the laptop for the different target groups (eg.
<CanoeBerry>    developer, child, teacher, other people...)
<CanoeBerry>    Test the help and search for improve potential
<CanoeBerry>    The idea of OLPC is good. To see what potential is possible in
<CanoeBerry>    technical writer environment we will look on the system and
<CanoeBerry>    seek to write useful help text for user.
<eKindlingRy> see you guys next week!
<CanoeBerry> eKindlingRy: thank you and goodbye!
<ramoonas> edmcnierney, bye
<ramoonas> eKindlingRy, bye
<ramoonas> sorry
<ramoonas> ;)
<CanoeBerry> Above German proposal is imperfect in its english but has 5 sponsors :)
<dgd> Get someone to do screencasts of the activity talk through the procedures in target language then farm out the transcription to someone else... mechanical turk volunteers or similar... docs can be done later... with text and screengrabs... as a suggestion
<CanoeBerry> I would like to ask them if 10 XO's is sufficient -- while we know the lead applicant well, and he is a strong community-builder in the Munich/Bayern area, we do not normally provide more than 10 for laptop-lending libraries.
<CanoeBerry> dgd: who/what are you addressing exactly?  Sorry I'm missing the full context ;)
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<dgd> sorry: first noone likes writing docs, or few do, techs certainly don't. Get the SME for Sugar/OLPC to do screencasts of the OLPC for the target audience. Publish the screencast and then get volunteers to do write ups from the screencast.
<CanoeBerry> Do we have votes here for/against the German library?
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<dgd> Protect the SMEs from doing boring/tedious writing activities, get them to do training...
<CanoeBerry> dgd: sorry I'm still missing the context of your suggestion -- what is this
in responde to, the Filipino proposal?
<CanoeBerry> Or some aspect of it?
<CanoeBerry> dgd: OK, I think I getcha now maybe :)
<dgd> German docs, proposal #3, you are asking for documentation to be translated... don't translate... transcribe... don't need SMEs to transcribe, need SMEs to code and to train
<dgd> SMEs do trainings as screencasts, build docs from the screencasts... saves time and captures buggy behavior too
<CanoeBerry> dgd: am listening
<dgd> SME = subject matter expert... we want SMEs doing brainy stuff, not boring text documentation
<dgd> transcriber watches video, does screengrabs, writes, watches a little more, screengrab, writes... it's Mechanical turk Work...
<mafe> dgd: you think it's boring to them...
<dgd> watches training/screencast videos of OLPC and Sugar in action
<dgd> mafe: tech writing? yes, that's why it is rarely done and often badly done
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<mafe> dgd: but that's one impt thing also that's need to done and should be encourage
<CanoeBerry> dgd: do you speak German and have knowledge of OLPC/Sugar's German docs?
<dgd> mafe: and I'm suggesting an easier way to do just that... we want SMEs showing us how to solve problems...  let someone else do the time consuming part of WRITING about it
<dgd> CanoeBerry: No, my German is sehr schlect
<cjb> dgd, mafe: I think telling volunteers to do things they don't seem to want to do in the first place is a bad start :-)
<dgd> but, I imagine a German user of Sugar could be found to do some basic screencasts of the ways/wherefores of Sugar
<dgd> cjb: I totally agree! let volunteer coders code, let everyone else do the docs...
<dgd> Get the SMEs to screencast what they know in their language... the knowledge base will build from there...
<dgd> recording a screencast takes a minute... writing the same can take 5X as long...
<dgd> and with annotations, the video can demo in whatever target language you need... one base video... * number of languages
<dgd> the UI is the same for all languages... just the text... so add annotations to the video...
<mafe> dgd: now I fully understand ....what you're saying...I absolutely agree on if there's a better way to do it ...i know here will always the best way...:)
<mafe> dgd: is this part of the german library project?
<dgd> mafe: what is your native language?
<dgd> mafe: this idea applies to the german library project, could apply to Kenya, could apply to filipino... china... whereever there's a need for more software/OS/OLPC/Sugar training
<dgd> :)
<ramoonas> i am sorry i am a bit off topic but is this project also going to translate sugar OS to german language? Or am i missing something?
<dgd> CanoeBerry>	OK, onto Project #3:
<dgd> 	<CanoeBerry>	3. OLPC Bayern Library - Munich/Munchen, Germany
<dgd> 	<CanoeBerry>	http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=45454
<dgd> 	<CanoeBerry>	http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Bayern (NEEDS REVISING)
<dgd> 	<CanoeBerry>	Requests 15 XO's over 18 months
<dgd> 	<eKindlingRy>	well we do our best, because we want our vision to be realized
<dgd> 	<CanoeBerry>	Project Objectives:
<dgd> 	<CanoeBerry>	Translate the english manuals into a German/understandable version.
<dgd> last line: translate manuals... the manuals in English are sketchy at best (IMHO) go straight to recording as screencasts what teachers/students need to know
<dgd> get volunteers to make docs from screencasts made by SMEs of Sugar or OLPC or both
<mafe> dgd: this can't be done in emulation?
<dgd> mafe: I'm doing it in emulation... in fact, I've not been able to get SoaS to play nice at all on Intel machines but that's a diff story
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<dgd> I am not an SME of Sugar or OLPC. I'm a naive user and a teacher. Getting Sugar to work or make sense has been my biggest problem... the docs are thin, the help files in Sugar non existant.
<Caryl> I think I read your post on IAEP.  I take exception with your comments about teachers, however, I am trying to get someone to help with the issue
<dgd> I am trying to make Sugar palatable to teachers but even with my fair tech. background, getting Sugar to work has been difficult and NON transparent... for unskilled teachers without LOTS of support... Sugar won't sweeten many classrooms
<dgd> Caryl: teachers are people too, and most people don't like change... and Sugar represents a huge change in working paradigm for all concerned
<Caryl> There are many very skilled teachers.  We just need SoaS to be a little more reliable and to write some an easy to understand guide.
<Caryl> Showing SoaS at teachers conferences also would be helpful
<dgd> showing SoaS working on social media sites will get a lot more eyeballs...
<Caryl> We hope to do that at CUE in Palm Springs in March 2010 and SCaLE in Santa Monica in Feb 2010
<ramoonas> you know i work at organisation which primary function to teach other teacher, i suppose i could demonstrate SoaS
<Caryl> That would be great
<ramoonas> sorry for off topic
<ramoonas> i will speak with me collegues when summer break will be over
<dgd> ramoonas: excellent! please be sure to have a camera there... and no, it's not off topic... the topic was getting more OLPC and training into a German library
<Caryl> email me at caryl at laptop.org
<dgd> ramoonas: you broadcast your training and you will help others understand how to nagivate Sugar
<mafe> ramoonas: that would be a great contribution to all...
<Caryl> Have you heard of Classroon 2.0?
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<ramoonas> dgd: i am responsible only for computers, teaching material and promotion are 
other peoples responsibility. I will have to get that authorised
<ramoonas> Caryl, i am sorry, who you are addressing?
<Caryl> They do weekly live sessions using Elluminate.  They are recorded and can be accessed later
<Caryl> you
<ramoonas> oh
<ramoonas> no i have not heard about classroom :)
<Caryl> Let me go find a link...
<dgd> What is the official position on using old Intel laptops instead of OLPC machines?
<mafe> what's the final comment on project #3?
<CanoeBerry> :)
<ramoonas> +1
<Caryl> Here is a link to their main stite: http://www.classroom20.com/
<cjb> dgd: I'd expect OLPC and Sugar Labs to have different positions on that
<ramoonas> i see no problem that people want to translate
<ramoonas> :)
<CanoeBerry> +1 with a mentor..
<gintasdx1> +1
<Caryl> If that is the library...+1
<ramoonas> Caryl, ok i will look at it


[ CLOSING REMARKS ]

<Caryl> How did project #2 go?
<mafe> Caryl: they need additional specifics...to submit /email..
<Caryl> Ok  50 seemed like a bit much to me
<mafe> Caryl: do you have additional input on Project #2?
<mafe> Caryl: but a regular class in PH is 50-80 per class..
<Caryl> There are many projects we have approved in the past for 10 machines that could have used 50.  They should think more in terms of students sharing fewer machines
<Caryl> Jamal's group has 50
<Caryl> and 10 machines
<Caryl>  they are thrilled to have them
<mafe> Caryl: how do they got those 50?
<Caryl> 50 students, not 50 machines.  They only have 10 machines
<Caryl> it isn't the machine that makes it work.  It is the collaborative nature of what the students are doing with and without the machines
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<mafe> oic...50 students...
<Caryl> oic?
<dgd> Caryl: Oh I see?
<mafe> oh i see....:) internet lingo
<Caryl> :-)
<Caryl> OK
<mafe> i believe the group has other purpose for the 50 xo..it's allocated in the proposal...
<CanoeBerry> dgd: sorry I didn't keep up with all your comments earlier, as I had 2 phone/in-person interruptions, but I'd like to hear more about your Documentation
advocacy.
<mafe> hey need to go...caryl: do post your other comments and inputs onto #2
<Caryl> I'd better read the whole proposal carefully first
<dgd> You can see part of what I'm talking about at the wiki.sugarlabs.
<CanoeBerry> dgd: do you have a personal site?
<dgd> For every thing I discover, I document, and most of that documentation takes shape in screencasts
<mafe> caryl: that would be great...and would be happy if you can part of the mentor for theis project
<dgd> CanoeBerry: http://dennisdaniels.moodlehub.com/ but I've not updated it in a few days..
<cjb> dgd: so, I think how well this works depends on who your audience is
<Caryl> The prof at MSU who is pres. of the Bozeman LUG seems to have an excellent handle on SoaS, both the usb and disk versions.  I have invited him to work with me on some sort of guide
<CanoeBerry> dgd: are you in SF?
<cjb> if you're trying to get developers interested in fixing your bugs, then a screencast doesn't work.  I'm not going to watch a screencast in case it contains a bug someone might need to fix; I'm going to wait for a bug report.
<cjb> if you want to show other users how to do stuff, a screencast is good
<dgd> cjb: asolutely... and my preferred audience are kids who want to install Sugar... :)
<dgd> but I'm probably missing that boat too...
<dgd> but, we all try in our humble ways...
<Caryl> Mafe: let me read it first
<mafe> Caryl: the eKindling team would be interested to hear that...since SoaS will be a valuable thing for an additional sugar activity
<mafe> Caryl: thanks....
<dgd> CanoeBerry: I was in SF... got too expensive. Now in NOLA but probably won't be here much longer either... I travel a lot...
<CanoeBerry> :)
<CanoeBerry> dgd: know where you're headed?
<Caryl> He hasn't said "yes" yet
* Russet-Silver-01  Quit ("CGI:IRC")
* Lime-Green-11  Quit ("CGI:IRC")
<dgd> to the grave eventually, Ukraine most likely... lived overseas most of my adult life
<mafe> wow this is the longest ever cp review i've attended so far...:)
<mafe> Caryl : keep usposted and nice to see you here & miss you here...*wink*
<Caryl> I came late...forgot because I was obsessed with digging weeds.
<dgd> mafe: glad to have you here/met you
<Caryl> Adam's email also arrived about an hour late!
<mafe> Caryl: hahaha ..that's a good stress reliever ....
<CanoeBerry> dgd: thank you very much for joining.  Have you spent time with OLPC/Sugar folks in person?
<Caryl> not when you get obsessed like I do!
<mafe> dgd: me too...and looking forward on your project update
<mafe> Caryl: Adam said quick review....now I miss my swimming....:)
<mafe> Caryl: careful on poison ivy
<Caryl> We don't have any here!
<dgd> CanoeBerry: negative... saw OLPC skeleton in seattle years ago, tried the buy one get one free... then got busy doing something else... I'm leaning towards teaching again and I am NOT going back into a classroom without a full network solution for my students... otherwise teaching is too much like a job... and I don't want a job
<Caryl> dgd: Check out Classroom 2.0 Lots of great stuff for teaching with technology there
<CanoeBerry> dgd: Wow -- would you also consider photogenic documentation of small any small SoaS or OLPC deployment?
<dgd> Caryl: thanks, know about them...
<dgd> CanoeBerry: Not sure I understand what you mean...
<Caryl> dgd: what subject/level do you plan to teach?
<mafe> ok great weekend ahead everyone....Caryl:you'll never know ...but anyway have fun....i've tried that too...indeed you can be obsessed...
<CanoeBerry> dgd: I'm just speaking generally -- SoaS and small OLPC deployments are _badly_ in need of communicating their successes and failures with clean documentation.
<Caryl> mafe: yep...wanna come play in my yard???
<CanoeBerry> dgd: if you ever decide to help in such areas.
<dgd> I'm on sugarlabs wiki... that's where I've been trying to patch the doc holes
<mafe> Caryl: would be glad too....where are you? :) i know you're everywhere in CA
<mafe> dgd: wow..you've been around the community...?
<dgd> mafe: Around the community? I'm a noob to Sugar/ SOAS/. Worked Open Source projects. Big fan of LTSP.
<Caryl> mafe:  Montana until the end of Sept
<Caryl> Lots of room and lots of weeds!
<mafe> Caryl: happy weeding...
<mafe> dgd: what's LTSP?
<dgd> mafe: linux terminal server project... take cheap thin/fat computers and turn them into clients running off a central application server... the calmest 18 months of teaching I've ever had was while running that LTSP network... my best work yet, frankly
<dgd> My students blew every test out of the water and get regular emails from kids who want to get good high paying jobs because of the skills I taught them there
<dgd> went on to get
<CanoeBerry> dgd: have you interacted with nubae?
<CanoeBerry> nubae is Sugar/OLPC's most passionate LTSP advocate.. currently still living in Vienna I believe.
<dgd> yes
<dgd> I know of him
<CanoeBerry> great.
<dgd> and I know vienna a little
<dgd> I lived in Austria for a while...
<mafe> dgd: awesome...it  would  be  great to see you around here
<dgd> maybe Nov... good chance in Nov
<mafe>  ok final bye.....thanks @CanoeBerry....& to all...
<dgd> mafe: take care!
<CanoeBerry> dgd: if you ever want to dig deeper into supporting/documenting your favorite teacher's angle, consider: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Support_Gang
<gintasdx1> Faisal Sadeq Khan <[EMAIL ADDRESS]>  Martin Dengler <[EMAIL ADDRESS]>
<dgd> CanoeBerry: ok
<dgd> gintasdx1: cross posting?
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<gintasdx1> Nevermind. Wrong field
<dgd> one last thing before we go-go... Sugar really needs better support for screencasting... I have to do all of my screencasts in emulation mode as the built in activity borks hard in Sugar .85
<dgd> we want children showing off sugar for us... that'll get the excitement this project needs
<Caryl> I think someone on the IAEP list said they had implemented screencasting
<dgd> Caryl: correct. tested it. borked. no joy.
<Caryl> tell them.  they'll fix it
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<cjb> that was probably me, and I'm unlikely to fix it, but maybe you can persuade someone else to.
<cjb> (I think it used to work in a previous Sugar version and has stopped working for unknown reasons.)
<dgd> cjb: thanks
* dgd have don't know history of project(s), which sometimes help
<Caryl> I think it was Tom Gilliard, unless that is you?
<cjb> that's not me, but I wrote the Screencast activity.
<dgd> cjb: ! :) cool!
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<cjb> dgd: it'd be cooler if it still worked, I'm sure :)
<dgd> cjb: we won't mention that part... ;)
<dgd> I'm always in awe of those who can write code... :)
<ramoonas> sorry i lost context, are we still at meeting?
<Caryl> I think I'll go study Project #2 in depth
<Caryl> bye for now
<ramoonas> bye Caryl