Repair centers/Mar 20 2008: Difference between revisions
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<mvn071> how XO's are expected in Birmingham? |
<mvn071> how XO's are expected in Birmingham? |
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<TTown> 1000 on April 15 |
* <TTown> 1000 on April 15 |
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<TTown> Remaining 14000 later this year. |
* <TTown> Remaining 14000 later this year. |
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<mvn071> how XS are you planning the setup XS boxes? |
* <mvn071> how XS are you planning the setup XS boxes? |
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<mvn071> central config/install/updates with puppet or so? |
* <mvn071> central config/install/updates with puppet or so? |
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<humble-van> humble-van --> Scott from Vancouver, Canada |
* <humble-van> humble-van --> Scott from Vancouver, Canada |
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<swansong> Call is beginning |
* <swansong> Call is beginning |
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<swansong> Kim speaking |
* <swansong> Kim speaking |
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<swansong> Birmingham next major deploy. |
* <swansong> Birmingham next major deploy. |
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<humble-van> org I work with is http://freegeekvancouver.org |
* <humble-van> org I work with is http://freegeekvancouver.org |
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<swansong> Looking at model for getting repair centers. |
* <swansong> Looking at model for getting repair centers. |
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<swansong> Collecting ideas: non profits, profit-based, etc. Then, what is the best way to get them off the ground, availability of parts, etc. |
* <swansong> Collecting ideas: non profits, profit-based, etc. Then, what is the best way to get them off the ground, availability of parts, etc. |
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<mchua> is there a target date for when these repair centers should be able to "get off the ground"? (this may not be the right question to ask) |
* <mchua> is there a target date for when these repair centers should be able to "get off the ground"? (this may not be the right question to ask) |
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<swansong> Kim speaking on issues with parts |
* <swansong> Kim speaking on issues with parts |
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<swansong> getting reasonable costs for spares |
* <swansong> getting reasonable costs for spares |
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<mchua> (I am, however, asking it because it seems like a lot of repair centers are stuck at the "...but we need parts!" issue) |
* <mchua> (I am, however, asking it because it seems like a lot of repair centers are stuck at the "...but we need parts!" issue) |
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<swansong> so who will warehouse |
* <swansong> so who will warehouse |
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Mar 20 14:11:37 * mchua is Mel, btw |
* Mar 20 14:11:37 * mchua is Mel, btw |
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<swansong> working with Brightstar |
* <swansong> working with Brightstar |
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<swansong> To get started, Brightstar will sell small numbers (tens of something) instead of usual minimum (O(1000)) |
* <swansong> To get started, Brightstar will sell small numbers (tens of something) instead of usual minimum (O(1000)) |
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<swansong> over time, they want people to have direct part purchase planning |
* <swansong> over time, they want people to have direct part purchase planning |
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<mchua> what does that mean? |
* <mchua> what does that mean? |
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<swansong> err, not planning, capability |
* <swansong> err, not planning, capability |
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<mchua> as in "here, a website with a shopping cart... I want 15 antennae"? |
* <mchua> as in "here, a website with a shopping cart... I want 15 antennae"? |
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<swansong> eventually, quanta wants people buying from *quanta's* supplier |
* <swansong> eventually, quanta wants people buying from *quanta's* supplier |
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<swansong> I think more that Brightstar wants to get out of the business of subwarehousing, but that is Scott's interpretation, not Kim/Adam canon |
* <swansong> I think more that Brightstar wants to get out of the business of subwarehousing, but that is Scott's interpretation, not Kim/Adam canon |
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<swansong> This is future plans, at which point D-stock and M-stock would be insufficient |
* <swansong> This is future plans, at which point D-stock and M-stock would be insufficient |
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<mvn071> what is d/n stock? |
* <mvn071> what is d/n stock? |
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<mvn071> d-m |
* <mvn071> d-m |
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<swansong> Using D-stock and M-stock to launch nonprofit repair centers is a good idea, tho |
* <swansong> Using D-stock and M-stock to launch nonprofit repair centers is a good idea, tho |
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<swansong> Adam is speaking to minimum quantity on keyboards right now |
* <swansong> Adam is speaking to minimum quantity on keyboards right now |
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<swansong> being taken offline |
* <swansong> being taken offline |
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<swansong> question asked about D- and M- stocks |
* <swansong> question asked about D- and M- stocks |
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<swansong> M-stock is XOs identified at Brightstar as returns with problems usable only for parts or deep repair |
* <swansong> M-stock is XOs identified at Brightstar as returns with problems usable only for parts or deep repair |
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<swansong> quantity is silly (97) |
* <swansong> quantity is silly (97) |
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<mchua> D-stock and M-stock == returned laptops, broken laptops |
* <mchua> D-stock and M-stock == returned laptops, broken laptops |
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<swansong> D-stock: DOAs. |
* <swansong> D-stock: DOAs. |
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<mchua> (what scott said) |
* <mchua> (what scott said) |
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<swansong> Currently, O(200) [actually 138 remaining] of D-stock. These are funded, if you will, by G1G1 RMAs |
* <swansong> Currently, O(200) [actually 138 remaining] of D-stock. These are funded, if you will, by G1G1 RMAs |
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<swansong> 80,000+ total quantity of Give1Get1s, and that is now a closed stock. |
* <swansong> 80,000+ total quantity of Give1Get1s, and that is now a closed stock. |
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<swansong> aholt believes that the numbers will double. Kim dissents. |
* <swansong> aholt believes that the numbers will double. Kim dissents. |
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<swansong> aholt believes that double is due to lag of support requests. Kim acquiesced that delay may cause up to doubling. |
* <swansong> aholt believes that double is due to lag of support requests. Kim acquiesced that delay may cause up to doubling. |
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<swansong> Moraine Valley Community College (SW Chicago) group speaking now (Larry Langellier & Steve Mastej) |
* <swansong> Moraine Valley Community College (SW Chicago) group speaking now (Larry Langellier & Steve Mastej) |
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<swansong> ideas about campus clubs, jam sessions |
* <swansong> ideas about campus clubs, jam sessions |
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<swansong> noncredit courses at college |
* <swansong> noncredit courses at college |
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<swansong> advice to other colleges who want to do that. |
* <swansong> advice to other colleges who want to do that. |
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<swansong> second proposal: create an actual repair center. question: where do parts come from? |
* <swansong> second proposal: create an actual repair center. question: where do parts come from? |
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Mar 20 14:21:04 * mchua wishes to raise the issue of "certification" of repair centers - are we doing it? (personally I hope not) |
* Mar 20 14:21:04 * mchua wishes to raise the issue of "certification" of repair centers - are we doing it? (personally I hope not) |
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<swansong> question is for repair center, how much do you charge? |
* <swansong> question is for repair center, how much do you charge? |
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<swansong> kim responds that people will probably not pay US$200 to repair a "US$200" G1G1 unit |
* <swansong> kim responds that people will probably not pay US$200 to repair a "US$200" G1G1 unit |
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<TTown> accrediting centers would be nice - having a way of registering and getting maybe online peer reviews |
* <TTown> accrediting centers would be nice - having a way of registering and getting maybe online peer reviews |
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<TTown> of your repair shop |
* <TTown> of your repair shop |
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<TTown> certification is overkill |
* <TTown> certification is overkill |
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<swansong> larry's concept is a flat exchange |
* <swansong> larry's concept is a flat exchange |
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<swansong> kim just said "certified repair centers" |
* <swansong> kim just said "certified repair centers" |
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<swansong> so this is a good segue -- I will ask when can |
* <swansong> so this is a good segue -- I will ask when can |
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<swansong> wants to avoid scalping |
* <swansong> wants to avoid scalping |
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<swansong> no ability to buy full units, just spare parts, at this time |
* <swansong> no ability to buy full units, just spare parts, at this time |
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<swansong> kim: OLPC wants all people to have a way to get this repaired |
* <swansong> kim: OLPC wants all people to have a way to get this repaired |
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<swansong> kim: much prefers online peer reviews |
* <swansong> kim: much prefers online peer reviews |
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<swansong> pointing people at "where to get it fixed" |
* <swansong> pointing people at "where to get it fixed" |
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<swansong> she feels actual certification IS overkill |
* <swansong> she feels actual certification IS overkill |
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<swansong> and will close things |
* <swansong> and will close things |
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<swansong> might be hard to justify laptops -- if it is hard to justify them, then make it easier, and maybe a certification type thing MIGHT help with that |
* <swansong> might be hard to justify laptops -- if it is hard to justify them, then make it easier, and maybe a certification type thing MIGHT help with that |
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<mchua> I'd rather go with peer reviews and independent groups being able to create their own certifications ("passed MVCC XO-repair test") is better than bottlenecking at OLPC |
* <mchua> I'd rather go with peer reviews and independent groups being able to create their own certifications ("passed MVCC XO-repair test") is better than bottlenecking at OLPC |
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Mar 20 14:25:29 * mchua agrees with kim |
* Mar 20 14:25:29 * mchua agrees with kim |
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<swansong> I think kim is in synch, mchua |
* <swansong> I think kim is in synch, mchua |
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<mchua> yay! |
* <mchua> yay! |
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<mvn071> user rating |
* <mvn071> user rating |
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<mchua> yeah, I got that impression from swansong's notes of what kim said :) just expressing my happiness |
* <mchua> yeah, I got that impression from swansong's notes of what kim said :) just expressing my happiness |
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<swansong> Moving on to Stefan Reitz |
* <swansong> Moving on to Stefan Reitz |
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<swansong> Birmingham, Alabama -- if you want to get involved, info is on the wiki |
* <swansong> Birmingham, Alabama -- if you want to get involved, info is on the wiki |
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<swansong> his dayjob is fixing things, so it looks like this is a serious grassroots effort |
* <swansong> his dayjob is fixing things, so it looks like this is a serious grassroots effort |
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<swansong> since there is going to be 10,000+ installbase |
* <swansong> since there is going to be 10,000+ installbase |
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<swansong> Kim ref'ing the online doc ( http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Repair_center_locations ) |
* <swansong> Kim ref'ing the online doc ( http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Repair_center_locations ) |
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<swansong> Labor costs in US too high compared to laptop cost |
* <swansong> Labor costs in US too high compared to laptop cost |
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<swansong> so make the parts non-soldered and user-replaceable (this was design theory) |
* <swansong> so make the parts non-soldered and user-replaceable (this was design theory) |
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<swansong> mobo [motherboad] breaking -- example of something supplied only to repair centers doing a good job |
* <swansong> mobo [motherboad] breaking -- example of something supplied only to repair centers doing a good job |
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<swansong> Stefan is wanting to have access to parts/schematics that require solder-level work (components) -- e.g. power transistors |
* <swansong> Stefan is wanting to have access to parts/schematics that require solder-level work (components) -- e.g. power transistors |
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<swansong> Not SOP [/*S*mall *O*utline *P*ackage, a surface mount technology]/, but sort of a "level 2" hardware |
* <swansong> Not SOP [/*S*mall *O*utline *P*ackage, a surface mount technology]/, but sort of a "level 2" hardware |
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<swansong> Kim will look into how schematics are obtained. There are Issues. |
* <swansong> Kim will look into how schematics are obtained. There are Issues. |
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<swansong> [if others think I misquote, PLEASE include/requote/correct] |
* <swansong> [if others think I misquote, PLEASE include/requote/correct] |
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<swansong> Stefan: how do I get spare parts? what's the price break on parts? O(1) vs O(10)? |
* <swansong> Stefan: how do I get spare parts? what's the price break on parts? O(1) vs O(10)? |
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<swansong> Looking for financial viability |
* <swansong> Looking for financial viability |
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<swansong> Local repair centers. With 10-15K units. Bender quoted 1-2% damage rate per year. |
* <swansong> Local repair centers. With 10-15K units. Bender quoted 1-2% damage rate per year. |
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<swansong> He thus estimates that 150-300 per year require intervention |
* <swansong> He thus estimates that 150-300 per year require intervention |
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<mvn071> more over the years |
* <mvn071> more over the years |
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<swansong> Kim: can't make a business on 10-15K units |
* <swansong> Kim: can't make a business on 10-15K units |
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<swansong> there's only 80K units in all of N America, which is hard enough, and then you have shipping |
* <swansong> there's only 80K units in all of N America, which is hard enough, and then you have shipping |
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<mvn071> data recoverage / reinstall |
* <mvn071> data recoverage / reinstall |
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<swansong> 10-15K is just a drop in the bucket for the future |
* <swansong> 10-15K is just a drop in the bucket for the future |
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<swansong> so this is just a slow start |
* <swansong> so this is just a slow start |
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<swansong> so this might make sense for someone to take on the business, to see how it will grow |
* <swansong> so this might make sense for someone to take on the business, to see how it will grow |
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<swansong> Stefan wants to see this expand to other parts of alabama |
* <swansong> Stefan wants to see this expand to other parts of alabama |
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<swansong> Kim: Birmingham sort of caught them by surprise, so cannot comment on rest of AL or US |
* <swansong> Kim: Birmingham sort of caught them by surprise, so cannot comment on rest of AL or US |
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<swansong> Adam: 1% is an important number |
* <swansong> Adam: 1% is an important number |
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< 1% RMA 30day |
* < 1% RMA 30day |
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<swansong> over 5 years, kim points out, will be higher |
* <swansong> over 5 years, kim points out, will be higher |
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<swansong> she needs to look that data up |
* <swansong> she needs to look that data up |
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<mchua> where is the 1% number coming from? pilots? |
* <mchua> where is the 1% number coming from? pilots? |
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<swansong> Walter |
* <swansong> Walter |
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<swansong> 1-2% per year |
* <swansong> 1-2% per year |
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<mchua> (right, but where does walter get that number from?) |
* <mchua> (right, but where does walter get that number from?) |
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<swansong> (stefan corrected) |
* <swansong> (stefan corrected) |
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<1% (hopefully) 30day rma rate - user smash! vs mfg error |
* <1% (hopefully) 30day rma rate - user smash! vs mfg error |
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< where student ownership |
* < where student ownership |
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<swansong> numbers now being investigated |
* <swansong> numbers now being investigated |
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<swansong> XO obviously have different numbers |
* <swansong> XO obviously have different numbers |
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<swansong> we dont know yet |
* <swansong> we dont know yet |
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<swansong> should probably put competitive numbers on wiki page to suss out things |
* <swansong> should probably put competitive numbers on wiki page to suss out things |
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<swansong> (that from kim) |
* <swansong> (that from kim) |
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<swansong> Also, industry starting to see 10% momentary out-of-service numbers in educational 1:1 24-hour mobil programs |
* <swansong> Also, industry starting to see 10% momentary out-of-service numbers in educational 1:1 24-hour mobil programs |
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<swansong> (mobile) |
* <swansong> (mobile) |
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<swansong> Kim: ~300k in service already, keyboard peeloff problem wont be fixed even in the next couple hundred of thousand |
* <swansong> Kim: ~300k in service already, keyboard peeloff problem wont be fixed even in the next couple hundred of thousand |
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<swansong> (XOs) |
* <swansong> (XOs) |
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<swansong> Nikki Lee [in Cambridge, MA w/ Kim & Adam at OLPC office] is hard to hear |
* <swansong> Nikki Lee [in Cambridge, MA w/ Kim & Adam at OLPC office] is hard to hear |
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<swansong> "do stuff on own, be resource to others" |
* <swansong> "do stuff on own, be resource to others" |
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<swansong> Olin wants to pilot |
* <swansong> Olin wants to pilot |
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<swansong> how do things work, documentation and passing info |
* <swansong> how do things work, documentation and passing info |
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<swansong> April-Hope Wareham speaking on IMSA.edu's idea to research project |
* <swansong> April-Hope Wareham speaking on IMSA.edu's idea to research project |
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<swansong> simulate a repair center from anywhere in the world |
* <swansong> simulate a repair center from anywhere in the world |
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<olpc_wad> swansong: Actually, I'm just hanging around from yesterday's meeting. But schematics cannot be released by OLPC |
* <olpc_wad> swansong: Actually, I'm just hanging around from yesterday's meeting. But schematics cannot be released by OLPC |
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<swansong> do a student-run repair center (ages 14-18 techs) |
* <swansong> do a student-run repair center (ages 14-18 techs) |
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<swansong> piloting concept |
* <swansong> piloting concept |
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<swansong> Kim encouraging Olin College and IMSA to work together |
* <swansong> Kim encouraging Olin College and IMSA to work together |
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<swansong> Marten Vijn now speaking from the Netherlands |
* <swansong> Marten Vijn now speaking from the Netherlands |
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<swansong> 5 broken units thus far (if I heard right) |
* <swansong> 5 broken units thus far (if I heard right) |
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<swansong> using scavenging from brokens to repair others. |
* <swansong> using scavenging from brokens to repair others. |
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<swansong> Interest in teaching and learning as a side project, not full time career |
* <swansong> Interest in teaching and learning as a side project, not full time career |
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<swansong> using schools for workforce as a side effect of learning cycle (or learning as side effect of workforce, might be commutative) |
* <swansong> using schools for workforce as a side effect of learning cycle (or learning as side effect of workforce, might be commutative) |
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<swansong> Scott Nelson, Vancouver: Freegeek! http://freegeekvancouver.org (on channel) |
* <swansong> Scott Nelson, Vancouver: Freegeek! http://freegeekvancouver.org (on channel) |
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<swansong> nonprofit -- no interest in competing with local for-profits. He is still waiting for his XO(s). |
* <swansong> nonprofit -- no interest in competing with local for-profits. He is still waiting for his XO(s). |
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<swansong> He does not know of number of units in CA or Van |
* <swansong> He does not know of number of units in CA or Van |
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<swansong> aholt: over 5000 in Canada with "more to come soon" |
* <swansong> aholt: over 5000 in Canada with "more to come soon" |
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<swansong> ScottN: Very DIY. Putting themselves out there as grp that adheres to goals and ideals |
* <swansong> ScottN: Very DIY. Putting themselves out there as grp that adheres to goals and ideals |
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<swansong> looking to host workshops, sessions, etc |
* <swansong> looking to host workshops, sessions, etc |
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<swansong> Adam: pls explain freegeek more |
* <swansong> Adam: pls explain freegeek more |
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<swansong> ScottN: accept donations of old computer hardware, volunteers sort and scavenge (they are trained by org) |
* <swansong> ScottN: accept donations of old computer hardware, volunteers sort and scavenge (they are trained by org) |
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<swansong> Minimum cut for reassembly, lower stuff gets partfarmed |
* <swansong> Minimum cut for reassembly, lower stuff gets partfarmed |
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<swansong> or even metalfarmed |
* <swansong> or even metalfarmed |
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<swansong> the rest: people volunteer for 24 hours to work rebuilding. at end, they get their own from the rebuilds. |
* <swansong> the rest: people volunteer for 24 hours to work rebuilding. at end, they get their own from the rebuilds. |
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<swansong> High end stuff goes into thrift store (parts and units), which generates funds for program |
* <swansong> High end stuff goes into thrift store (parts and units), which generates funds for program |
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<swansong> Non-profits can apply for free hardware |
* <swansong> Non-profits can apply for free hardware |
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<swansong> which they set up with Ubuntu and then give to those agencies |
* <swansong> which they set up with Ubuntu and then give to those agencies |
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<swansong> Kim: Are you interested in repairing XO? |
* <swansong> Kim: Are you interested in repairing XO? |
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<swansong> ScottN: we have a laptop fixit wizard who is very good. they have only been around a year. They do NOT want a warehouse. They don't want to bite off more than they can chew. |
* <swansong> ScottN: we have a laptop fixit wizard who is very good. they have only been around a year. They do NOT want a warehouse. They don't want to bite off more than they can chew. |
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<swansong> They also don't want to deal with post [shipping & handling]. |
* <swansong> They also don't want to deal with post [shipping & handling]. |
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<swansong> So, maybe, start small - once a month XO repair jam |
* <swansong> So, maybe, start small - once a month XO repair jam |
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<swansong> Three staff members (paid), rest are volunteer. [Sounds awesome, Scott!!] |
* <swansong> Three staff members (paid), rest are volunteer. [Sounds awesome, Scott!!] |
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<swansong> Programs done being discussed/floated. Now, general questions. |
* <swansong> Programs done being discussed/floated. Now, general questions. |
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<humble-van> mirror site: http://cprost.freegeekvancouver.org (slightly out of date, but...) |
* <humble-van> mirror site: http://cprost.freegeekvancouver.org (slightly out of date, but...) |
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<swansong> Kim is hopeful that .edu organizations will be part of this |
* <swansong> Kim is hopeful that .edu organizations will be part of this |
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<humble-van> ( primary site seems slashdotted right now ;-) <swansong> shipping is tough problem for nonprofits. even $5.25 (bulk price) keyboard (aholt) |
* <humble-van> ( primary site seems slashdotted right now ;-) <swansong> shipping is tough problem for nonprofits. even $5.25 (bulk price) keyboard (aholt) |
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<swansong> so this $5.25 is illusory, b/c fulfillment costs for kbd are greater than part cost, so who know what the final price will be |
* <swansong> so this $5.25 is illusory, b/c fulfillment costs for kbd are greater than part cost, so who know what the final price will be |
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<swansong> brightstar is going to charge/defray fulfillment costs to stay profitable itself, so kbds will by definition be substantially more than $5. |
* <swansong> brightstar is going to charge/defray fulfillment costs to stay profitable itself, so kbds will by definition be substantially more than $5. |
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<mchua> are there alternative parts/sources to the official ones for any components? (for instance, the charger plugs discussion) |
* <mchua> are there alternative parts/sources to the official ones for any components? (for instance, the charger plugs discussion) |
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<swansong> a $5 kbd in china has to make it to US ($) and then be warehoused ($) and shipped to repair centers ($) |
* <swansong> a $5 kbd in china has to make it to US ($) and then be warehoused ($) and shipped to repair centers ($) |
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<mchua> (charger plugs discussion == you can use these things to charge your XO instead if you lose your 'official' charger) |
* <mchua> (charger plugs discussion == you can use these things to charge your XO instead if you lose your 'official' charger) |
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<swansong> Olin has been provided with 2 units. |
* <swansong> Olin has been provided with 2 units. |
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<swansong> Marten looking for units |
* <swansong> Marten looking for units |
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<swansong> no, mel, that has not been brought up |
* <swansong> no, mel, that has not been brought up |
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<swansong> Kim: can Marten do send-ins? or just walk-ins. |
* <swansong> Kim: can Marten do send-ins? or just walk-ins. |
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<swansong> Marten will do shipping, but customer pays |
* <swansong> Marten will do shipping, but customer pays |
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<swansong> Kim: Nikki and April-Hope are for training! |
* <swansong> Kim: Nikki and April-Hope are for training! |
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<swansong> (AHW gave me a frightened look .. heh) |
* <swansong> (AHW gave me a frightened look .. heh) |
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<swansong> nikki: will put up place for people to leave comments for what people WANT to do |
* <swansong> nikki: will put up place for people to leave comments for what people WANT to do |
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<swansong> (err, want doc on) |
* <swansong> (err, want doc on) |
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<swansong> Kim: gaping hole: there is no repair manual |
* <swansong> Kim: gaping hole: there is no repair manual |
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<swansong> so let's give olin/IMSA some units to figure that out |
* <swansong> so let's give olin/IMSA some units to figure that out |
||
<swansong> [Walter Bender] will be publishing 24 page deployment guide [now posted here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_Guide ] |
* <swansong> [Walter Bender] will be publishing 24 page deployment guide [now posted here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_Guide ] |
||
<ahw> we can start a pilot as soon as we get broken units, so i think thats the place Nikki and Stefan and IMSA are at right now |
* <ahw> we can start a pilot as soon as we get broken units, so i think thats the place Nikki and Stefan and IMSA are at right now |
||
<swansong> AHW: looking for units as well as simulated numbers for parameters for pilots |
* <swansong> AHW: looking for units as well as simulated numbers for parameters for pilots |
||
<swansong> ScottN: looking for some units for parts for seeding repair jams |
* <swansong> ScottN: looking for some units for parts for seeding repair jams |
||
<swansong> Kim: who has opened it up? |
* <swansong> Kim: who has opened it up? |
||
<swansong> everyone seems to have |
* <swansong> everyone seems to have |
||
<swansong> Jim Gerry: who has put it back together? |
* <swansong> Jim Gerry: who has put it back together? |
||
<swansong> same answer |
* <swansong> same answer |
||
<swansong> MVCC (Moraine Valley) received 12 broken units in late Feb: 8 M stock and 4 D stock. MVCC's Steve Mastej now commenting |
* <swansong> MVCC (Moraine Valley) received 12 broken units in late Feb: 8 M stock and 4 D stock. MVCC's Steve Mastej now commenting |
||
<swansong> Steve contends: so what if you've torn and rebuilt -- have you actually repaired it? |
* <swansong> Steve contends: so what if you've torn and rebuilt -- have you actually repaired it? |
||
<swansong> Documenting: include times |
* <swansong> Documenting: include times |
||
<swansong> Steve contends it's 30 min for teardown to replace state, 1 hr to replace the really cantankerous parts |
* <swansong> Steve contends it's 30 min for teardown to replace state, 1 hr to replace the really cantankerous parts |
||
<mchua> Documenting: include who did it (first-time XO tear-downer? 30 years of computer repair experience?) |
* <mchua> Documenting: include who did it (first-time XO tear-downer? 30 years of computer repair experience?) |
||
<mchua> (so that times/difficulty can be gauged) |
* <mchua> (so that times/difficulty can be gauged) |
||
<swansong> Some DOAs are bricked, and require a surface mount ram replace |
* <swansong> Some DOAs are bricked, and require a surface mount ram replace |
||
<CanoeBerry> Skype problem? |
* <CanoeBerry> Skype problem? |
||
<TTown> something bad happening to the phone line |
* <TTown> something bad happening to the phone line |
||
<CanoeBerry> Plz hang up if you have a speakerphone! |
* <CanoeBerry> Plz hang up if you have a speakerphone! |
||
<swansong> 2 levels of bricked: 1 kind repairable. |
* <swansong> 2 levels of bricked: 1 kind repairable. |
||
<swansong> Skype? |
* <swansong> Skype? |
||
<swansong> [Conference call line fixed itself 1-2min later] |
* <swansong> [Conference call line fixed itself 1-2min later] |
||
<cjb> "surface mount ram replace"? |
* <cjb> "surface mount ram replace"? |
||
<swansong> 1 cannot. |
* <swansong> 1 cannot. |
||
<swansong> sorry, I was transcribing a convo half there when we went into weird line noise space |
* <swansong> sorry, I was transcribing a convo half there when we went into weird line noise space |
||
<cjb> Hm, I guess the SPI replacement fits that bill. But a *much* simpler way to fix that DOA is to hook up a serial port. |
* <cjb> Hm, I guess the SPI replacement fits that bill. But a *much* simpler way to fix that DOA is to hook up a serial port. |
||
<swansong> SPI replacement, yes |
* <swansong> SPI replacement, yes |
||
<swansong> cjb: we're doing them backwards. From totally useless to actually reparable |
* <swansong> cjb: we're doing them backwards. From totally useless to actually reparable |
||
<swansong> they're starting to discuss the serial line, but stopped just short |
* <swansong> they're starting to discuss the serial line, but stopped just short |
||
<swansong> marten: concern about customs clearance |
* <swansong> marten: concern about customs clearance |
||
<swansong> zero value on dead units |
* <swansong> zero value on dead units |
||
<swansong> Call closed. |
* <swansong> Call closed. |
||
</pre> |
Latest revision as of 14:33, 3 April 2008
<mvn071> how XO's are expected in Birmingham?
- <TTown> 1000 on April 15
- <TTown> Remaining 14000 later this year.
- <mvn071> how XS are you planning the setup XS boxes?
- <mvn071> central config/install/updates with puppet or so?
- <humble-van> humble-van --> Scott from Vancouver, Canada
- <swansong> Call is beginning
- <swansong> Kim speaking
- <swansong> Birmingham next major deploy.
- <humble-van> org I work with is http://freegeekvancouver.org
- <swansong> Looking at model for getting repair centers.
- <swansong> Collecting ideas: non profits, profit-based, etc. Then, what is the best way to get them off the ground, availability of parts, etc.
- <mchua> is there a target date for when these repair centers should be able to "get off the ground"? (this may not be the right question to ask)
- <swansong> Kim speaking on issues with parts
- <swansong> getting reasonable costs for spares
- <mchua> (I am, however, asking it because it seems like a lot of repair centers are stuck at the "...but we need parts!" issue)
- <swansong> so who will warehouse
- Mar 20 14:11:37 * mchua is Mel, btw
- <swansong> working with Brightstar
- <swansong> To get started, Brightstar will sell small numbers (tens of something) instead of usual minimum (O(1000))
- <swansong> over time, they want people to have direct part purchase planning
- <mchua> what does that mean?
- <swansong> err, not planning, capability
- <mchua> as in "here, a website with a shopping cart... I want 15 antennae"?
- <swansong> eventually, quanta wants people buying from *quanta's* supplier
- <swansong> I think more that Brightstar wants to get out of the business of subwarehousing, but that is Scott's interpretation, not Kim/Adam canon
- <swansong> This is future plans, at which point D-stock and M-stock would be insufficient
- <mvn071> what is d/n stock?
- <mvn071> d-m
- <swansong> Using D-stock and M-stock to launch nonprofit repair centers is a good idea, tho
- <swansong> Adam is speaking to minimum quantity on keyboards right now
- <swansong> being taken offline
- <swansong> question asked about D- and M- stocks
- <swansong> M-stock is XOs identified at Brightstar as returns with problems usable only for parts or deep repair
- <swansong> quantity is silly (97)
- <mchua> D-stock and M-stock == returned laptops, broken laptops
- <swansong> D-stock: DOAs.
- <mchua> (what scott said)
- <swansong> Currently, O(200) [actually 138 remaining] of D-stock. These are funded, if you will, by G1G1 RMAs
- <swansong> 80,000+ total quantity of Give1Get1s, and that is now a closed stock.
- <swansong> aholt believes that the numbers will double. Kim dissents.
- <swansong> aholt believes that double is due to lag of support requests. Kim acquiesced that delay may cause up to doubling.
- <swansong> Moraine Valley Community College (SW Chicago) group speaking now (Larry Langellier & Steve Mastej)
- <swansong> ideas about campus clubs, jam sessions
- <swansong> noncredit courses at college
- <swansong> advice to other colleges who want to do that.
- <swansong> second proposal: create an actual repair center. question: where do parts come from?
- Mar 20 14:21:04 * mchua wishes to raise the issue of "certification" of repair centers - are we doing it? (personally I hope not)
- <swansong> question is for repair center, how much do you charge?
- <swansong> kim responds that people will probably not pay US$200 to repair a "US$200" G1G1 unit
- <TTown> accrediting centers would be nice - having a way of registering and getting maybe online peer reviews
- <TTown> of your repair shop
- <TTown> certification is overkill
- <swansong> larry's concept is a flat exchange
- <swansong> kim just said "certified repair centers"
- <swansong> so this is a good segue -- I will ask when can
- <swansong> wants to avoid scalping
- <swansong> no ability to buy full units, just spare parts, at this time
- <swansong> kim: OLPC wants all people to have a way to get this repaired
- <swansong> kim: much prefers online peer reviews
- <swansong> pointing people at "where to get it fixed"
- <swansong> she feels actual certification IS overkill
- <swansong> and will close things
- <swansong> might be hard to justify laptops -- if it is hard to justify them, then make it easier, and maybe a certification type thing MIGHT help with that
- <mchua> I'd rather go with peer reviews and independent groups being able to create their own certifications ("passed MVCC XO-repair test") is better than bottlenecking at OLPC
- Mar 20 14:25:29 * mchua agrees with kim
- <swansong> I think kim is in synch, mchua
- <mchua> yay!
- <mvn071> user rating
- <mchua> yeah, I got that impression from swansong's notes of what kim said :) just expressing my happiness
- <swansong> Moving on to Stefan Reitz
- <swansong> Birmingham, Alabama -- if you want to get involved, info is on the wiki
- <swansong> his dayjob is fixing things, so it looks like this is a serious grassroots effort
- <swansong> since there is going to be 10,000+ installbase
- <swansong> Kim ref'ing the online doc ( http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Repair_center_locations )
- <swansong> Labor costs in US too high compared to laptop cost
- <swansong> so make the parts non-soldered and user-replaceable (this was design theory)
- <swansong> mobo [motherboad] breaking -- example of something supplied only to repair centers doing a good job
- <swansong> Stefan is wanting to have access to parts/schematics that require solder-level work (components) -- e.g. power transistors
- <swansong> Not SOP [/*S*mall *O*utline *P*ackage, a surface mount technology]/, but sort of a "level 2" hardware
- <swansong> Kim will look into how schematics are obtained. There are Issues.
- <swansong> [if others think I misquote, PLEASE include/requote/correct]
- <swansong> Stefan: how do I get spare parts? what's the price break on parts? O(1) vs O(10)?
- <swansong> Looking for financial viability
- <swansong> Local repair centers. With 10-15K units. Bender quoted 1-2% damage rate per year.
- <swansong> He thus estimates that 150-300 per year require intervention
- <mvn071> more over the years
- <swansong> Kim: can't make a business on 10-15K units
- <swansong> there's only 80K units in all of N America, which is hard enough, and then you have shipping
- <mvn071> data recoverage / reinstall
- <swansong> 10-15K is just a drop in the bucket for the future
- <swansong> so this is just a slow start
- <swansong> so this might make sense for someone to take on the business, to see how it will grow
- <swansong> Stefan wants to see this expand to other parts of alabama
- <swansong> Kim: Birmingham sort of caught them by surprise, so cannot comment on rest of AL or US
- <swansong> Adam: 1% is an important number
- < 1% RMA 30day
- <swansong> over 5 years, kim points out, will be higher
- <swansong> she needs to look that data up
- <mchua> where is the 1% number coming from? pilots?
- <swansong> Walter
- <swansong> 1-2% per year
- <mchua> (right, but where does walter get that number from?)
- <swansong> (stefan corrected)
- <1% (hopefully) 30day rma rate - user smash! vs mfg error
- < where student ownership
- <swansong> numbers now being investigated
- <swansong> XO obviously have different numbers
- <swansong> we dont know yet
- <swansong> should probably put competitive numbers on wiki page to suss out things
- <swansong> (that from kim)
- <swansong> Also, industry starting to see 10% momentary out-of-service numbers in educational 1:1 24-hour mobil programs
- <swansong> (mobile)
- <swansong> Kim: ~300k in service already, keyboard peeloff problem wont be fixed even in the next couple hundred of thousand
- <swansong> (XOs)
- <swansong> Nikki Lee [in Cambridge, MA w/ Kim & Adam at OLPC office] is hard to hear
- <swansong> "do stuff on own, be resource to others"
- <swansong> Olin wants to pilot
- <swansong> how do things work, documentation and passing info
- <swansong> April-Hope Wareham speaking on IMSA.edu's idea to research project
- <swansong> simulate a repair center from anywhere in the world
- <olpc_wad> swansong: Actually, I'm just hanging around from yesterday's meeting. But schematics cannot be released by OLPC
- <swansong> do a student-run repair center (ages 14-18 techs)
- <swansong> piloting concept
- <swansong> Kim encouraging Olin College and IMSA to work together
- <swansong> Marten Vijn now speaking from the Netherlands
- <swansong> 5 broken units thus far (if I heard right)
- <swansong> using scavenging from brokens to repair others.
- <swansong> Interest in teaching and learning as a side project, not full time career
- <swansong> using schools for workforce as a side effect of learning cycle (or learning as side effect of workforce, might be commutative)
- <swansong> Scott Nelson, Vancouver: Freegeek! http://freegeekvancouver.org (on channel)
- <swansong> nonprofit -- no interest in competing with local for-profits. He is still waiting for his XO(s).
- <swansong> He does not know of number of units in CA or Van
- <swansong> aholt: over 5000 in Canada with "more to come soon"
- <swansong> ScottN: Very DIY. Putting themselves out there as grp that adheres to goals and ideals
- <swansong> looking to host workshops, sessions, etc
- <swansong> Adam: pls explain freegeek more
- <swansong> ScottN: accept donations of old computer hardware, volunteers sort and scavenge (they are trained by org)
- <swansong> Minimum cut for reassembly, lower stuff gets partfarmed
- <swansong> or even metalfarmed
- <swansong> the rest: people volunteer for 24 hours to work rebuilding. at end, they get their own from the rebuilds.
- <swansong> High end stuff goes into thrift store (parts and units), which generates funds for program
- <swansong> Non-profits can apply for free hardware
- <swansong> which they set up with Ubuntu and then give to those agencies
- <swansong> Kim: Are you interested in repairing XO?
- <swansong> ScottN: we have a laptop fixit wizard who is very good. they have only been around a year. They do NOT want a warehouse. They don't want to bite off more than they can chew.
- <swansong> They also don't want to deal with post [shipping & handling].
- <swansong> So, maybe, start small - once a month XO repair jam
- <swansong> Three staff members (paid), rest are volunteer. [Sounds awesome, Scott!!]
- <swansong> Programs done being discussed/floated. Now, general questions.
- <humble-van> mirror site: http://cprost.freegeekvancouver.org (slightly out of date, but...)
- <swansong> Kim is hopeful that .edu organizations will be part of this
- <humble-van> ( primary site seems slashdotted right now ;-) <swansong> shipping is tough problem for nonprofits. even $5.25 (bulk price) keyboard (aholt)
- <swansong> so this $5.25 is illusory, b/c fulfillment costs for kbd are greater than part cost, so who know what the final price will be
- <swansong> brightstar is going to charge/defray fulfillment costs to stay profitable itself, so kbds will by definition be substantially more than $5.
- <mchua> are there alternative parts/sources to the official ones for any components? (for instance, the charger plugs discussion)
- <swansong> a $5 kbd in china has to make it to US ($) and then be warehoused ($) and shipped to repair centers ($)
- <mchua> (charger plugs discussion == you can use these things to charge your XO instead if you lose your 'official' charger)
- <swansong> Olin has been provided with 2 units.
- <swansong> Marten looking for units
- <swansong> no, mel, that has not been brought up
- <swansong> Kim: can Marten do send-ins? or just walk-ins.
- <swansong> Marten will do shipping, but customer pays
- <swansong> Kim: Nikki and April-Hope are for training!
- <swansong> (AHW gave me a frightened look .. heh)
- <swansong> nikki: will put up place for people to leave comments for what people WANT to do
- <swansong> (err, want doc on)
- <swansong> Kim: gaping hole: there is no repair manual
- <swansong> so let's give olin/IMSA some units to figure that out
- <swansong> [Walter Bender] will be publishing 24 page deployment guide [now posted here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_Guide ]
- <ahw> we can start a pilot as soon as we get broken units, so i think thats the place Nikki and Stefan and IMSA are at right now
- <swansong> AHW: looking for units as well as simulated numbers for parameters for pilots
- <swansong> ScottN: looking for some units for parts for seeding repair jams
- <swansong> Kim: who has opened it up?
- <swansong> everyone seems to have
- <swansong> Jim Gerry: who has put it back together?
- <swansong> same answer
- <swansong> MVCC (Moraine Valley) received 12 broken units in late Feb: 8 M stock and 4 D stock. MVCC's Steve Mastej now commenting
- <swansong> Steve contends: so what if you've torn and rebuilt -- have you actually repaired it?
- <swansong> Documenting: include times
- <swansong> Steve contends it's 30 min for teardown to replace state, 1 hr to replace the really cantankerous parts
- <mchua> Documenting: include who did it (first-time XO tear-downer? 30 years of computer repair experience?)
- <mchua> (so that times/difficulty can be gauged)
- <swansong> Some DOAs are bricked, and require a surface mount ram replace
- <CanoeBerry> Skype problem?
- <TTown> something bad happening to the phone line
- <CanoeBerry> Plz hang up if you have a speakerphone!
- <swansong> 2 levels of bricked: 1 kind repairable.
- <swansong> Skype?
- <swansong> [Conference call line fixed itself 1-2min later]
- <cjb> "surface mount ram replace"?
- <swansong> 1 cannot.
- <swansong> sorry, I was transcribing a convo half there when we went into weird line noise space
- <cjb> Hm, I guess the SPI replacement fits that bill. But a *much* simpler way to fix that DOA is to hook up a serial port.
- <swansong> SPI replacement, yes
- <swansong> cjb: we're doing them backwards. From totally useless to actually reparable
- <swansong> they're starting to discuss the serial line, but stopped just short
- <swansong> marten: concern about customs clearance
- <swansong> zero value on dead units
- <swansong> Call closed.