Repair centers/Mar 20 2008

<mvn071>    how XO's are expected in Birmingham?
<TTown>    1000 on April 15
<TTown>    Remaining 14000 later this year.
<mvn071>    how XS are you planning the setup XS boxes?
<mvn071>    central config/install/updates with puppet or so?
<humble-van>    humble-van --> Scott from Vancouver, Canada
<swansong>    Call is beginning
<swansong>    Kim speaking
<swansong>    Birmingham next major deploy.
<humble-van>    org I work with is http://freegeekvancouver.org
<swansong>    Looking at model for getting repair centers.
<swansong>    Collecting ideas: non profits, profit-based, etc.  Then, what is the best way to get them off the ground, availability of parts, etc.
<mchua>    is there a target date for when these repair centers should be able to "get off the ground"? (this may not be the right question to ask)
<swansong>    Kim speaking on issues with parts
<swansong>    getting reasonable costs for spares
<mchua>    (I am, however, asking it because it seems like a lot of repair centers are stuck at the "...but we need parts!" issue)
<swansong>    so who will warehouse
Mar 20 14:11:37 *    mchua is Mel, btw
<swansong>    working with Brightstar
<swansong>    To get started, Brightstar will sell small numbers (tens of something) instead of usual minimum (O(1000))
<swansong>    over time, they want people to have direct part purchase planning
<mchua>    what does that mean?
<swansong>    err, not planning, capability
<mchua>    as in "here, a website with a shopping cart... I want 15 antennae"?
<swansong>    eventually, quanta wants people buying from *quanta's* supplier
<swansong>    I think more that Brightstar wants to get out of the business of subwarehousing, but that is Scott's interpretation, not Kim/Adam canon
<swansong>    This is future plans, at which point D-stock and M-stock would be insufficient
<mvn071>    what is d/n stock?
<mvn071>    d-m
<swansong>    Using D-stock and M-stock to launch nonprofit repair centers is a good idea, tho
<swansong>    Adam is speaking to minimum quantity on keyboards right now
<swansong>    being taken offline
<swansong>    question asked about D- and M- stocks
<swansong>    M-stock is XOs identified at Brightstar as returns with problems usable only for parts or deep repair
<swansong>    quantity is silly (97)
<mchua>    D-stock and M-stock == returned laptops, broken laptops
<swansong>    D-stock: DOAs.
<mchua>    (what scott said)
<swansong>    Currently, O(200) [actually 138 remaining] of D-stock.  These are funded, if you will, by G1G1 RMAs
<swansong>    80,000+ total quantity of Give1Get1s, and that is now a closed stock.
<swansong>    aholt believes that the numbers will double. Kim dissents.
<swansong>    aholt believes that double is due to lag of support requests.  Kim acquiesced that delay may cause up to doubling.
<swansong>    Moraine Valley Community College (SW Chicago) group speaking now (Larry Langellier & Steve Mastej)
<swansong>    ideas about campus clubs, jam sessions
<swansong>    noncredit courses at college
<swansong>    advice to other colleges who want to do that.
<swansong>    second proposal: create an actual repair center.  question: where do parts come from?
Mar 20 14:21:04 *    mchua wishes to raise the issue of "certification" of repair centers - are we doing it? (personally I hope not)
<swansong>    question is for repair center, how much do you charge?
<swansong>    kim responds that people will probably not pay US$200 to repair a "US$200" G1G1 unit
<TTown>    accrediting centers would be nice - having a way of registering and getting maybe online peer reviews
<TTown>    of your repair shop
<TTown>    certification is overkill
<swansong>    larry's concept is a flat exchange
<swansong>    kim just said "certified repair centers"
<swansong>    so this is a good segue -- I will ask when can
<swansong>    wants to avoid scalping
<swansong>    no ability to buy full units, just spare parts, at this time
<swansong>    kim: OLPC wants all people to have a way to get this repaired
<swansong>    kim: much prefers online peer reviews
<swansong>    pointing people at "where to get it fixed"
<swansong>    she feels actual certification IS overkill
<swansong>    and will close things
<swansong>    might be hard to justify laptops -- if it is hard to justify them, then make it easier, and maybe a certification type thing MIGHT help with that
<mchua>    I'd rather go with peer reviews and independent groups being able to create their own certifications ("passed MVCC XO-repair test") is better than bottlenecking at OLPC
Mar 20 14:25:29 *    mchua agrees with kim
<swansong>    I think kim is in synch, mchua
<mchua>    yay!
<mvn071>    user rating
<mchua>    yeah, I got that impression from swansong's notes of what kim said  :)   just expressing my happiness
<swansong>    Moving on to Stefan Reitz
<swansong>    Birmingham, Alabama -- if you want to get involved, info is on the wiki
<swansong>    his dayjob is fixing things, so it looks like this is a serious grassroots effort
<swansong>    since there is going to be 10,000+ installbase
<swansong>    Kim ref'ing the online doc ( http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Repair_center_locations )
<swansong>    Labor costs in US too high compared to laptop cost
<swansong>    so make the parts non-soldered and user-replaceable (this was design theory)
<swansong>    mobo [motherboad] breaking -- example of something supplied only to repair centers doing a good job
<swansong>    Stefan is wanting to have access to parts/schematics that require solder-level work (components) -- e.g. power transistors
<swansong>    Not SOP [/*S*mall *O*utline *P*ackage, a surface mount technology]/, but sort of a "level 2" hardware
<swansong>    Kim will look into how schematics are obtained.  There are Issues.
<swansong>    [if others think I misquote, PLEASE include/requote/correct]
<swansong>    Stefan: how do I get spare parts?  what's the price break on parts? O(1) vs O(10)?
<swansong>    Looking for financial viability
<swansong>    Local repair centers.  With 10-15K units. Bender quoted 1-2% damage rate per year.
<swansong>    He thus estimates that 150-300 per year require intervention
<mvn071>    more over the years
<swansong>    Kim: can't make a business on 10-15K units
<swansong>    there's only 80K units in all of N America, which is hard enough, and then you have shipping
<mvn071>    data recoverage / reinstall
<swansong>    10-15K is just a drop in the bucket for the future
<swansong>    so this is just a slow start
<swansong>    so this might make sense for someone to take on the business, to see how it will grow
<swansong>    Stefan wants to see this expand to other parts of alabama
<swansong>    Kim: Birmingham sort of caught them by surprise, so cannot comment on rest of AL or US
<swansong>    Adam: 1% is an important number
< 1% RMA 30day
<swansong>    over 5 years, kim points out, will be higher
<swansong>    she needs to look that data up
<mchua>    where is the 1% number coming from? pilots?
<swansong>    Walter
<swansong>    1-2% per year
<mchua>    (right, but where does walter get that number from?)
<swansong>    (stefan corrected)
<1% (hopefully) 30day rma rate - user smash! vs mfg error
< where student ownership
<swansong>    numbers now being investigated
<swansong>    XO obviously have different numbers
<swansong>    we dont know yet
<swansong>    should probably put competitive numbers on wiki page to suss out things
<swansong>    (that from kim)
<swansong>    Also, industry starting to see 10% momentary out-of-service numbers in educational 1:1 24-hour mobil programs
<swansong>    (mobile)
<swansong>    Kim: ~300k in service already, keyboard peeloff problem wont be fixed even in the next couple hundred of thousand
<swansong>    (XOs)
<swansong>    Nikki Lee [in Cambridge, MA w/ Kim & Adam at OLPC office] is hard to hear
<swansong>    "do stuff on own, be resource to others"
<swansong>    Olin wants to pilot
<swansong>    how do things work, documentation and passing info
<swansong>    April-Hope Wareham speaking on IMSA.edu's idea to research project
<swansong>    simulate a repair center from anywhere in the world
<olpc_wad>    swansong: Actually, I'm just hanging around from yesterday's meeting.   But schematics cannot be released by OLPC
<swansong>    do a student-run repair center (ages 14-18 techs)
<swansong>    piloting concept
<swansong>    Kim encouraging Olin College and IMSA to work together
<swansong>    Marten Vijn now speaking from the Netherlands
<swansong>    5 broken units thus far (if I heard right)
<swansong>    using scavenging from brokens to repair others.
<swansong>    Interest in teaching and learning as a side project, not full time career
<swansong>    using schools for workforce as a side effect of learning cycle (or learning as side effect of workforce, might be commutative)
<swansong>    Scott Nelson, Vancouver: Freegeek! http://freegeekvancouver.org (on channel)
<swansong>    nonprofit -- no interest in competing with local for-profits.  He is still waiting for his XO(s).
<swansong>    He does not know of number of units in CA or Van
<swansong>    aholt: over 5000 in Canada with "more to come soon"
<swansong>    ScottN: Very DIY.  Putting themselves out there as grp that adheres to goals and ideals
<swansong>    looking to host workshops, sessions, etc
<swansong>    Adam: pls explain freegeek more
<swansong>    ScottN: accept donations of old computer hardware, volunteers sort and scavenge (they are trained by org)
<swansong>    Minimum cut for reassembly, lower stuff gets partfarmed
<swansong>    or even metalfarmed
<swansong>    the rest: people volunteer for 24 hours to work rebuilding.  at end, they get their own from the rebuilds.
<swansong>    High end stuff goes into thrift store (parts and units), which generates funds for program
<swansong>    Non-profits can apply for free hardware
<swansong>    which they set up with Ubuntu and then give to those agencies
<swansong>    Kim: Are you interested in repairing XO?
<swansong>    ScottN: we have a laptop fixit wizard who is very good.  they have only been around a year.  They do NOT want a warehouse.  They don't want to bite off more than they can chew.
<swansong>    They also don't want to deal with post [shipping & handling].
<swansong>    So, maybe, start small - once a month XO repair jam
<swansong>    Three staff members (paid), rest are volunteer.  [Sounds awesome, Scott!!]
<swansong>    Programs done being discussed/floated.  Now, general questions.
<humble-van>    mirror site: http://cprost.freegeekvancouver.org (slightly out of date, but...)
<swansong>    Kim is hopeful that .edu organizations will be part of this
<humble-van>    ( primary site seems slashdotted right now  ;-) <swansong>    shipping is tough problem for nonprofits. even $5.25 (bulk price) keyboard (aholt)
<swansong>    so this $5.25 is illusory, b/c fulfillment costs for kbd are greater than part cost, so who know what the final price will be
<swansong>    brightstar is going to charge/defray fulfillment costs to stay profitable itself, so kbds will by definition be substantially more than $5.
<mchua>    are there alternative parts/sources to the official ones for any components? (for instance, the charger plugs discussion)
<swansong>    a $5 kbd in china has to make it to US ($) and then be warehoused ($) and shipped to repair centers ($)
<mchua>    (charger plugs discussion == you can use these things to charge your XO instead if you lose your 'official' charger)
<swansong>    Olin has been provided with 2 units.
<swansong>    Marten looking for units
<swansong>    no, mel, that has not been brought up
<swansong>    Kim: can Marten do send-ins? or just walk-ins.
<swansong>    Marten will do shipping, but customer pays
<swansong>    Kim: Nikki and April-Hope are for training!
<swansong>    (AHW gave me a frightened look .. heh)
<swansong>    nikki: will put up place for people to leave comments for what people WANT to do
<swansong>    (err, want doc on)
<swansong>    Kim: gaping hole: there is no repair manual
<swansong>    so let's give olin/IMSA some units to figure that out
<swansong>    [Walter Bender] will be publishing 24 page deployment guide [now posted here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_Guide ]
<ahw>    we can start a pilot as soon as we get broken units, so i think thats the place Nikki and Stefan and IMSA are at right now
<swansong>    AHW: looking for units as well as simulated numbers for parameters for pilots
<swansong>    ScottN: looking for some units for parts for seeding repair jams
<swansong>    Kim: who has opened it up?
<swansong>    everyone seems to have
<swansong>    Jim Gerry: who has put it back together?
<swansong>    same answer
<swansong>    MVCC (Moraine Valley) received 12 broken units in late Feb: 8 M stock and 4 D stock.  MVCC's Steve Mastej now commenting
<swansong>    Steve contends: so what if you've torn and rebuilt -- have you actually repaired it?
<swansong>    Documenting: include times
<swansong>    Steve contends it's 30 min for teardown to replace state, 1 hr to replace the really cantankerous parts
<mchua>    Documenting: include who did it (first-time XO tear-downer? 30 years of computer repair experience?)
<mchua>    (so that times/difficulty can be gauged)
<swansong>    Some DOAs are bricked, and require a surface mount ram replace
<CanoeBerry>    Skype problem?
<TTown>    something bad happening to the phone line
<CanoeBerry>    Plz hang up if you have a speakerphone!
<swansong>    2 levels of bricked: 1 kind repairable.
<swansong>    Skype?
<swansong>    [Conference call line fixed itself 1-2min later]
<cjb>    "surface mount ram replace"?
<swansong>    1 cannot.
<swansong>    sorry, I was transcribing a convo half there when we went into weird line noise space
<cjb>    Hm, I guess the SPI replacement fits that bill. But a *much* simpler way to fix that DOA is to hook up a serial port.
<swansong>    SPI replacement, yes
<swansong>    cjb: we're doing them backwards.  From totally useless to actually reparable
<swansong>    they're starting to discuss the serial line, but stopped just short
<swansong>    marten: concern about customs clearance
<swansong>    zero value on dead units
<swansong>    Call closed.