Journal, reloaded/IRC transcript 2008-10-15
Raw dump of IRC transcript logs of cscott's talk. Please ask for clarification if something is confusing - scott talks fast and I couldn't type everything, and typos are all over this. Mchua 18:30, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
Oct 15 12:08:52 <mchua|xo> Hey guys - cscott is about to sta
rt his journal talk and I'll be transcribing as best I can i
n here
Oct 15 12:09:14 <mchua|xo> Also feel free to holler if you'r
e not in the room but want to ask questions (pls flag with R
ELAY: before your question) and I and others will try to pas
s it on
Oct 15 12:09:37 <tomeu> ooh, awesome
Oct 15 12:09:42 <tomeu> thanks mchua|!
Oct 15 12:09:54 <mchua|xo> np :) repaying the favor for the
many times it's been given to me
Oct 15 12:10:51 <mchua|xo> recording start
Oct 15 12:11:10 <mchua|xo> Ok
Oct 15 12:11:14 <mchua|xo> So I'm cscott and i work at olp
Oct 15 12:11:20 <mchua|xo> i;m goignto give a talk about new
ideas for journal
Oct 15 12:11:25 <mchua|xo> i'll give the requisite discliaim
er that a
Oct 15 12:11:28 <mchua|xo> most of the good ideas aren't mi
ne
Oct 15 12:11:38 <mchua|xo> BORROWE GREAT IDEAS FROM AS WE GO
Oct 15 12:11:43 <mchua|xo> AND BUT IF I FORGET JUST ASSUME T
HTAIT'S NOT MY IDEA
Oct 15 12:11:48 <mchua|xo> THE SECOND ONE IS THAT WHEN WE GE
T THORUGH THE ACTUAL GUI STUFF
Oct 15 12:11:55 <mchua|xo> none of this has gone through our
designers yet
Oct 15 12:11:56 <mchua|xo> (yay capslock)
Oct 15 12:12:04 <mchua|xo> so even's going to hate that some
buttons are square and some buttons are run and...
Oct 15 12:12:09 <mchua|xo> he'll give me a good talking to l
ate and w'ell fix that one
Oct 15 12:12:13 <mchua|xo> last, i'm deoig this on my laptop
Oct 15 12:12:17 <mchua|xo> so when we get to looking at file
s and stuff
Oct 15 12:12:26 <mchua|xo> we'll going to see the things tha
t i work w whcih are nto teh thigns that kdis work with
Oct 15 12:12:36 <mchua|xo> so most of the interesting files
are going to be lik source code and stuff bc that's what i'v
e been working on reclently
Oct 15 12:12:39 <mchua|xo> i'm an old school unix hacker
Oct 15 12:12:40 <mchua|xo> discliamer:
Oct 15 12:12:41 <mchua|xo> for youg nkids
Oct 15 12:12:47 <mchua|xo> their files aren't really going t
o look like my fiels
Oct 15 12:13:05 <mchua|xo> so if i do somethign that works w
ell for me tand is scaleable and growable and if i let kids
grow up to be bearded unix hackers
Oct 15 12:13:09 <mchua|xo> existing journal dseign
Oct 15 12:13:16 <mchua|xo> for 2 reasons - for peope watchin
g online maybe never seen jouranl before
Oct 15 12:13:20 <mchua|xo> also design not quite implemetned
yet
Oct 15 12:13:25 <mchua|xo> sowe 'll start with what it shoul
d look like
Oct 15 12:13:36 <mchua|xo> SLIDE
Oct 15 12:13:44 <mchua|xo> so we've got action view
Oct 15 12:13:46 <mchua|xo> BACKSLIDE
Oct 15 12:13:50 <mchua|xo> any questions should direct to eb
en
Oct 15 12:13:57 <mchua|xo> action view the thigns iv'e done
itno diary form
Oct 15 12:14:04 <mchua|xo> unlike a traiditonal file manager
, some of these things odn't actually have files assoc with
them
Oct 15 12:14:10 <mchua|xo> almost all of them do, and it too
k a lot for eben to convince me that someone might not
Oct 15 12:14:26 <mchua|xo> i added some objects, idid some o
ther stuff but other things like i copied a file to my usb k
ey
Oct 15 12:14:32 <mchua|xo> file may not be around, usb key m
ay nto be around but it'sl there
Oct 15 12:14:40 <mchua|xo> i went and played with X, shows u
p n my jouranl too
Oct 15 12:14:55 <mchua|xo> expand, it shows the actual thing
s that i've been workginw tih
Oct 15 12:14:57 <mchua|xo> so that's the cgtion view
Oct 15 12:15:02 <mchua|xo> then there's the object view whic
hi s a mroe rtada fm view
Oct 15 12:15:07 <mchua|xo> this are the files you av seen mo
re or less
Oct 15 12:15:12 <mchua|xo> you can debate whether they're fi
els or instances or what
Oct 15 12:15:16 <mchua|xo> chronological order, thigns i did
most recently
Oct 15 12:15:18 <mchua|xo> start things that reimportant
Oct 15 12:15:25 <mchua|xo> and i have some checkboxes that c
an do obth operations at once
Oct 15 12:15:27 <mchua|xo> there's a search bar
Oct 15 12:15:31 <mchua|xo> i can search for anything, anyone
, at any time
Oct 15 12:15:39 <mchua|xo> the right click entry will show
Oct 15 12:15:41 <mchua|xo> more detailed preview
Oct 15 12:15:53 <mchua|xo> so in may ways it would be he act
ual image i dcan vie details view
Oct 15 12:15:55 <mchua|xo> whichi s what that button does
Oct 15 12:16:07 <mchua|xo> (request to show previous slide)
Oct 15 12:16:13 <mchua|xo> so the title, the application ia
made it in,
Oct 15 12:16:21 <mchua|xo> resume, resume with some other ac
tivity, copy to, send to, view details, erase
Oct 15 12:16:29 <mchua|xo> (reading the text on the slide of
the right click popup)
Oct 15 12:16:43 <mchua|xo> i'm not... so, I like most of thi
s I'm not compeltely in love with it
Oct 15 12:17:04 <mchua|xo> so somef othse operations here ca
n be doen wtih these heckboxes and if you can sort of I'm no
t sure if I"m confinveced i want to rclick and scroll down t
o erase
Oct 15 12:17:14 <mchua|xo> for gmail you have to click on al
l these things and click erase on top
Oct 15 12:17:29 <mchua|xo> then you actually get to some rea
l examples - moving the preview icon here is really hard
Oct 15 12:17:45 <mchua|xo> image files aren'et named, you ge
t underscoe 546.jpeg or something
Oct 15 12:17:54 <mchua|xo> this is where wel'll we'll come b
ack to this later on
Oct 15 12:18:11 <mchua|xo> but i'd like to see some place fo
r a smaller preview icon, the activity icon is important the
re, some peopel have tried to make hyrpcids
Oct 15 12:18:15 <mchua|xo> they'll do this iwh ta watermark
over the real image
Oct 15 12:18:18 <mchua|xo> but we'll come back to that
Oct 15 12:18:25 <mchua|xo> its' a godo qeustions for design
aftfer me
Oct 15 12:18:41 <mchua|xo> he's got a tool animation if I dr
ag this I can go back in time and see how far back ni time I
'm going
Oct 15 12:18:44 <mchua|xo> that's not implemented yet
Oct 15 12:18:45 <mchua|xo> not for me
Oct 15 12:18:50 <mchua|xo> actually what I really like sthum
bnail view here
Oct 15 12:19:02 <mchua|xo> this is aone page inso the i've g
otall these images and i cant'really tell what they are with
out mousing over them
Oct 15 12:19:04 <mchua|xo> these are thumbnail views
Oct 15 12:19:11 <mchua|xo> it would be nice if this wasn't j
ust ani con but actually some text from things
Oct 15 12:19:41 <mchua|xo> it's very important that if you t
ype a search that matches nothing that you have something co
me up that says no matching entries found
Oct 15 12:19:47 <mchua|xo> or they think they've broken the
machine
Oct 15 12:19:53 <mchua|xo> this is the details screen which
i'm not messing with at all
Oct 15 12:19:54 <mchua|xo> i love it
Oct 15 12:19:58 <mchua|xo> you can talk about it w eben
Oct 15 12:20:04 <mchua|xo> you have preview here, text here,
text extensions
Oct 15 12:20:09 <mchua|xo> all the metadata you could possib
ly be itnerested in
Oct 15 12:20:15 <mchua|xo> something here that in ever reali
zed before i went lokoing for it
Oct 15 12:20:23 <mchua|xo> this dropdown box here which you
can - the idea is i modified it 2 mins ago
Oct 15 12:20:34 <mchua|xo> if ai clicked i'd alo see the thi
ngs i did an hour ago, a long time ago
Oct 15 12:20:45 <mchua|xo> that's also parr of the big ball
of wax that i'm not going to
Oct 15 12:21:02 <mchua|xo> so if we can get back gto here...
Oct 15 12:21:03 <mchua|xo> so!
Oct 15 12:21:09 <mchua|xo> lets' just say the big problem wi
th this is - this is how it should look
Oct 15 12:21:14 <mchua|xo> it's woudl beonwderful if it actu
ally looked at this
Oct 15 12:21:18 <mchua|xo> most kids tondt' really naem thei
r documents well
Oct 15 12:21:33 <mchua|xo> curernt system has a bug bc if we
haten' done version yet, every time is ave somethign i get
one more entry in ehre
Oct 15 12:21:42 <mchua|xo> so tehre's a whoel bunch of thing
s that say write activity write activity record activity
Oct 15 12:21:52 <mchua|xo> blah blahb over again there's no
ingo not really godo aidea not really contextual info to fig
ure out wha'ts actually here
Oct 15 12:21:58 <mchua|xo> and um the avialiby to orfanige m
y file, very liiltea bility
Oct 15 12:22:10 <mchua|xo> so there is ome tags, there is so
me search function on the tags, but it's not really exposed
in thes ay tthat makes mpeopel comfy w
Oct 15 12:22:14 <mchua|xo> this is my schoolwork and ic an s
earch fo rit
Oct 15 12:22:26 <mchua|xo> peopel who have used computjers f
or a logn tiem is they do hierarchical
Oct 15 12:22:31 <mchua|xo> here is one not to do
Oct 15 12:22:35 <mchua|xo> this is one mlinux like file mana
ger
Oct 15 12:22:42 <mchua|xo> "the time traveling file manager"
from kde
Oct 15 12:22:50 <mchua|xo> has a nicwe features here, the ti
le bar that I can drag back and forth...
Oct 15 12:23:02 <mchua|xo> so ehre's also we'll add some ane
cdotal stories...
Oct 15 12:23:10 <mchua|xo> from actual user expereinces, it'
s not just 6 years olds who finds this
Oct 15 12:23:18 <mchua|xo> we stil ahve learned files and fo
dlers so we propose this as the soln to everything
Oct 15 12:23:38 <mchua|xo> inexperienced users, where inexpe
rienced means "not unix hacker" are havignt eh same kinds of
files and folders problems that kids do
Oct 15 12:23:54 <mchua|xo> (someone) has rolled out a server
across the entire city's infrasstructure (talking about som
e deployment)
Oct 15 12:24:03 <mchua|xo> the thing they did that make a hu
ge amt of diff in the # of frustrared queries
Oct 15 12:24:11 <mchua|xo> there's a tiny little button in t
he...
Oct 15 12:24:15 <mchua|xo> "document as email" button
Oct 15 12:24:16 * is4 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection
timed out))
Oct 15 12:24:22 <mchua|xo> and i can look at this document i
'm looking at right now and document it
Oct 15 12:24:36 <mchua|xo> but if you actually think of all
thes steps required to document somethgn as email and send i
t to a friend
Oct 15 12:24:38 <mchua|xo> in most cases
Oct 15 12:24:44 <mchua|xo> i can't click just the save butto
n
Oct 15 12:24:49 <mchua|xo> i have to do file, save as, then
there's the magical...
Oct 15 12:25:01 <mchua|xo> when i go to save, they'l gvie me
some random place on my filesystem
Oct 15 12:25:21 <mchua|xo> this si in openoffice, if i open
any other application in my system i'll se a different looki
ng dialog
Oct 15 12:25:28 <mchua|xo> and now i save it, and now it's g
one somewhere, i odn't know wehre
Oct 15 12:25:35 <mchua|xo> so now i hvae to close this progr
am, I have to got...
Oct 15 12:25:39 <mchua|xo> maybe applications.. maybe my ema
il is somewhere here
Oct 15 12:25:42 <mchua|xo> i have eto find it ahve to open
it
Oct 15 12:25:52 <mchua|xo> and then i'll have to find antohe
r little button that says "attach to document"
Oct 15 12:25:57 <mchua|xo> and then I have to go through som
e other filepath...
Oct 15 12:26:12 <mchua|xo> it looks like this - which is loo
king completely different, this one shows dotfiles too, and
now I have to find...
Oct 15 12:26:25 <mchua|xo> it turns out that this one was in
projects/olpc/git/joruanl2/foo b/c that's where the last th
ing I was working on was
Oct 15 12:26:36 <mchua|xo> so now I have to find this.. now
HI have to attach it... adn then am I home free? maybe. I ho
pe so.
Oct 15 12:26:44 <mchua|xo> so tisn' tnot just small kids tha
t have probels with this
Oct 15 12:26:47 <mchua|xo> files and folders are not really
a very good solution
Oct 15 12:26:54 <mchua|xo> this save everythign to the deskt
op and that works for a while
Oct 15 12:26:57 <mchua|xo> and then I get somethign like thi
s
Oct 15 12:27:00 <mchua|xo> (BIG MESSY DUMP)
Oct 15 12:27:05 <cjb> :)
Oct 15 12:27:07 <mchua|xo> and ti's hard for me to figure ou
t what my files and folders are
Oct 15 12:27:26 <aa> lol
Oct 15 12:27:26 <cjb> it would be really nice to have a way
to find the things I've been working with recently that does
n't involve all this crap
Oct 15 12:27:35 <cjb> and this is what GNOME's Journal folks
are working on
Oct 15 12:27:37 <mchua|xo> they came up with this 'recently
used' thing in gnome now that...
Oct 15 12:27:43 * cjl wonders if they are showing a picture
of my desktop
Oct 15 12:27:51 <mchua|xo> (question from egarrison that I m
iss)
Oct 15 12:28:00 <mchua|xo> cjl: it looks a lot like mine too
;)
Oct 15 12:28:06 <cjb> <erik> having recently used should sol
ve this
Oct 15 12:28:17 <cjb> <scott> there's a separate recently-us
ed list for each application!
Oct 15 12:28:25 <mchua|xo> <3 cjb
Oct 15 12:28:33 <mchua|xo> ther's aost his shortcuts folder
here and interesting to see largo talk
Oct 15 12:28:43 <mchua|xo> in all the desktop hes' every loo
ke at - this is always balnekd
Oct 15 12:28:45 <mchua|xo> blank
Oct 15 12:28:49 <mchua|xo> nobody ever uses it
Oct 15 12:28:57 <cjb> (this is the shortcuts bar in the gtkf
ilechooser)
Oct 15 12:29:06 <mchua|xo> so now we're rtaling about how yo
u organize stuff
Oct 15 12:29:09 <cjb> okay, here's a story
Oct 15 12:29:12 <mchua|xo> and the kids all like tags these
days
Oct 15 12:29:21 <mchua|xo> everythign goes in exactly one pl
ace which is kind of limiting
Oct 15 12:29:25 <mchua|xo> with tags i can put thigns im ult
ple places
Oct 15 12:29:30 <mchua|xo> this is in my mstone folder, in m
y other folder
Oct 15 12:29:37 <mchua|xo> but i'm old, i' used hirarchially
structuer paths everywhere
Oct 15 12:29:44 <mchua|xo> iv'e got all these dirs on mys ys
already
Oct 15 12:29:49 <mchua|xo> but i oudln't come up with a good
reason why this was necessary
Oct 15 12:29:58 <mchua|xo> it's like arandom selection of ta
gs - but they had structure
Oct 15 12:30:07 <mchua|xo> so i took all the files of my lap
top which has 10+ years of files
Oct 15 12:30:21 <cjb> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Experiments_
with_unordered_paths
Oct 15 12:30:23 <mchua|xo> i'm going to show them all the pl
aces where you can't jsust throw the path componetns without
order
Oct 15 12:30:27 <cjb> (has the details of this experiments)
Oct 15 12:30:32 <cjb> (if I got the URL right)
Oct 15 12:30:33 <mchua|xo> that bar/foo is different from fo
o/bar
Oct 15 12:30:40 <mchua|xo> so I wrote the script and i ran i
t on all my files in my /home dir
Oct 15 12:30:45 <mchua|xo> and it turned out exactly zero ca
ses
Oct 15 12:30:48 <mchua|xo> where the ordering of tags made a
difference
Oct 15 12:30:52 <mchua|xo> and my midn exploed at that point
Oct 15 12:30:55 <mchua|xo> iwas like o crap
Oct 15 12:31:05 <mchua|xo> i've got loads of crap there
Oct 15 12:31:14 <mchua|xo> iv'e got files unpacked fiels and
thingsk the gtk source tree, ltos of things from lots of ot
her project
Oct 15 12:31:17 <mchua|xo> so i had to rethink my world
Oct 15 12:31:23 <mchua|xo> turns out there were not exactly
0 instances
Oct 15 12:31:28 <mchua|xo> but none of them were compelling
Oct 15 12:31:33 <cjb> sphinx project from CMU
Oct 15 12:31:43 <mchua|xo> one of them was a speech rec proj
ect that... sphinx
Oct 15 12:31:53 <mchua|xo> has because it's java, it was sph
ingx/test/foo
Oct 15 12:31:57 <cjb> sphinx has sphinx/test/foo, output in
test/sphinx/foo
Oct 15 12:32:25 <cjb> duplicate tags are important
Oct 15 12:32:33 <mchua|xo> places like debian packages
Oct 15 12:32:50 <mchua|xo> so it turns out that if you allow
dup tags that gets you 90% of the exampels go
Oct 15 12:32:55 <mchua|xo> foo foo is a different tag than j
ust foo by itself
Oct 15 12:33:00 <mchua|xo> but you almost never need tfo use
ordered paths
Oct 15 12:33:05 <cjb> mchua|xo: your nick had me worried, I
thought you were typing (10x faster than me) on an XO keyboa
rd :)
Oct 15 12:33:22 <mchua|xo> so this wasn't erally an envelope
sketch because it's too long for an envelope, but
Oct 15 12:33:23 <mchua|xo> SLIDE
Oct 15 12:33:35 <mchua|xo> cjb: I am cultivating my magica p
owers to do so next :)
Oct 15 12:33:44 <mchua|xo> so here's an idea of how you coul
d add a little bit of better support for tags and structures
in the journal
Oct 15 12:33:45 <mchua|xo> so
Oct 15 12:33:46 <mchua|xo> here's my files
Oct 15 12:33:49 <mchua|xo> this is extremely ugly but...
Oct 15 12:34:06 <mchua|xo> in my joural tagginga nd markesr
for the day to separate them works a lot better than having
a bar that looks for the exact time it was done
Oct 15 12:34:13 <mchua|xo> so I pust it in columns (today, s
aturday...)
Oct 15 12:34:27 <mchua|xo> so i'm e basically listing all th
e directoreis that stuff is in astags
Oct 15 12:34:36 <mchua|xo> which is completely ignored excep
t if you really care
Oct 15 12:34:39 <mchua|xo> but other than that it looks gmai
l like
Oct 15 12:34:44 <mchua|xo> i have my fiel name, my file type
Oct 15 12:34:47 <mchua|xo> and a list of tag suggestions ove
r here
Oct 15 12:34:55 <mchua|xo> but thew ay i got this is a list
of all the tags that i've made
Oct 15 12:34:57 <mchua|xo> it's like folders
Oct 15 12:35:12 <mchua|xo> this makes it a little more disco
verable (to have them on the sidebar to left)
Oct 15 12:35:35 <mchua|xo> but so this middle section is sug
gestions
Oct 15 12:35:37 <mchua|xo> the most recently used stuff
Oct 15 12:35:41 <mchua|xo> or the what things have you done
recnetly
Oct 15 12:35:43 <mchua|xo> so we'll talk about that more lat
er
Oct 15 12:36:00 <mchua|xo> and that's brightly stole some ep
ipharnies when you bookmark stuff an ephiphny it t populates
something with the most recent tags
Oct 15 12:36:03 <mchua|xo> epiphany == browser
Oct 15 12:36:23 <mchua|xo> all the peopel with fiels in your
brains these are special tags with (something) written in
Oct 15 12:36:27 <mchua|xo> so if you want tomake hierarchial
structures you can
Oct 15 12:36:37 <mchua|xo> if you have a sbudirectory called
activities
Oct 15 12:36:41 <mchua|xo> (oh! something == slashes)
Oct 15 12:37:04 <mchua|xo> so if I wanted to see the Activit
ys/ I could click this tags and i could see allt the things
that were tagged with the activityes tag that is to say they
're from that folder
Oct 15 12:37:10 <mchua|xo> i've taken evens sort of long swe
arch bar
Oct 15 12:37:14 <mchua|xo> and exhanged most of that spac fo
r the search
Oct 15 12:37:23 <mchua|xo> so the idea is now who
Oct 15 12:37:28 <mchua|xo> is file tags that i wrote with ch
irss or whatever
Oct 15 12:37:33 <mchua|xo> and what is files i wrote in pipp
y
Oct 15 12:37:38 <cjb> chirss?!? ;-)
Oct 15 12:37:41 <mchua|xo> where is really contorversioa
Oct 15 12:37:47 <mchua|xo> so here's the default place which
i s thigns that were in my jouranl
Oct 15 12:37:53 <mchua|xo> but i can use the - look in my en
tire filesystem
Oct 15 12:38:08 <mchua|xo> removable devices
Oct 15 12:38:15 <cjb> can move from journal, to filesystem,
to removable devices
Oct 15 12:38:19 <mchua|xo> (usb, sd..)
Oct 15 12:38:31 <mchua|xo> (for those following along, this
makes way more sense with the screenshot)
Oct 15 12:38:40 <cjb> common deployment question: "put this
file in this directory"
Oct 15 12:38:44 <cjb> old journal can't do that
Oct 15 12:38:47 <mchua|xo> the old journal had no way to do
things like "put this in the boot dir of the usb stick"
Oct 15 12:38:53 <mchua|xo> so now I give it the tag "boot/"
Oct 15 12:38:56 <mchua|xo> and it's in tehre
Oct 15 12:39:11 <mchua|xo> and if i'm given a usb stick with
all sorts o fmusic in the something/ dir it all comes up wi
tht hat
Oct 15 12:39:24 <mchua|xo> (missed wad's q)
Oct 15 12:39:33 <mchua|xo> I 'd liek tot hink i could drag t
hese tasg into these projects
Oct 15 12:39:45 <mchua|xo> usually i'd just ad mroe tags...
but if I wanted to put ti to a specific place here...
Oct 15 12:39:50 <mchua|xo> ordered tags don't matter at all
in efal life
Oct 15 12:39:52 <cjb> <wad> how do I add a subdirectory?
Oct 15 12:39:55 <mchua|xo> but i spepect that there'll be ra
rely many cases
Oct 15 12:40:05 <cjb> <scott> use magic ordered tags with /
on the end
Oct 15 12:40:05 <mchua|xo> so I culd put the right place int
the front of this text
Oct 15 12:40:13 <mchua|xo> so i fi made a boot/ tag it also
makes a boot directory
Oct 15 12:40:18 <mchua|xo> and if I don't put anythinge sle
it'll put that dir in the top plevel
Oct 15 12:40:36 <mchua|xo> so maybe it does the wrnog things
yand you could just drag and drop them (to reorder i assume
)
Oct 15 12:40:44 <mchua|xo> so here's when, which is the= it
displays a calendar
Oct 15 12:40:52 <mchua|xo> what I really want is the widget
that eben will desgin for me
Oct 15 12:41:01 <mchua|xo> it will look at the set of days w
e want the same zoomign interface that we have elsewhere in
the system
Oct 15 12:41:08 <mchua|xo> did id do it yesterday/ last mont
h/ last year
Oct 15 12:41:09 <cjb> gtkcalendarwidget doesn't let you do d
ate region searches, just pick one day
Oct 15 12:41:18 <cjb> no way to select entire month
Oct 15 12:41:18 <aa> * the smell of molten fingers fills the
room *
Oct 15 12:41:23 <cjb> :)
Oct 15 12:41:28 <mchua|xo> (mm, toasty)
Oct 15 12:41:42 <mchua|xo> but hwer are all the thigns that
if you are familair with gmail
Oct 15 12:41:50 <mchua|xo> i can..
Oct 15 12:41:59 <mchua|xo> these icons are more like placeho
lders but ican copy them to some device, i can move them to
some device
Oct 15 12:42:04 <mchua|xo> I can delete them all
Oct 15 12:42:05 <mchua|xo> AAH!
Oct 15 12:42:22 <mchua|xo> the first thign that iw watn is "
find other things like these"
Oct 15 12:42:27 <mchua|xo> something that helsp you find oth
er thigns like these
Oct 15 12:42:30 <mchua|xo> and i think this is add tag and r
emove tag
Oct 15 12:42:34 <mchua|xo> these do thes ame kind of thing t
hey do with gmail
Oct 15 12:42:39 <mchua|xo> whichis the things i selected has
tags already
Oct 15 12:42:51 <mchua|xo> okay, so that's the modkup.
Oct 15 12:42:53 <mchua|xo> so I"ll take questison
Oct 15 12:42:56 <mchua|xo> and then we'll do really cool stu
ff
Oct 15 12:42:59 <mchua|xo> (channel? questions?)
Oct 15 12:43:30 <mchua|xo> aiee, cjb I can't lipread henry..
. help?
Oct 15 12:43:41 <mchua|xo> scott: the tags are really just t
ags
Oct 15 12:43:44 <cjb> <henry> what happens if I remove a tag
-slash?
Oct 15 12:43:45 <mchua|xo> so I've got - you'll se these in
the next demo
Oct 15 12:43:52 <mchua|xo> all the thigns on the other side
jsut becomes regular tags
Oct 15 12:43:59 <cjb> <scott> the other slash tags become un
ordered tags, maybe?
Oct 15 12:44:00 <mchua|xo> the other tags aren't speciali sl
ash tags any more
Oct 15 12:44:07 <mchua|xo> and if I wanted to recreate the d
i structure I could drag those back and have them hook on to
the end of my tag string
Oct 15 12:44:28 <mchua|xo> if I delete the schoolwork tag, t
urtles is just a tag, the files get mored into the Jouranl/
directory]
Oct 15 12:44:44 <mchua|xo> s/mored/moved
Oct 15 12:45:03 <cjl> RELAY would tags move with files from
XO to XO?
Oct 15 12:45:17 <mchua|xo> so my first idea for that...
Oct 15 12:45:24 <mchua|xo> i started thinking - waht is this
really like to use?
Oct 15 12:45:24 <tomeu> RELAY so slash tags are meant just t
o interface with the file system?
Oct 15 12:45:33 <mchua|xo> which is something that is tag st
ructured, where the order of the dir componetns don' tmater?
Oct 15 12:45:48 <mchua|xo> so all these file are in /home/ol
pc/blah/blah/blah
Oct 15 12:45:52 <cjb> tomeu: yes.
Oct 15 12:46:04 <mchua|xo> cjl: will relay
Oct 15 12:46:07 <cjb> (that's from me, not Scott)
Oct 15 12:46:24 * isforinsects (n=isforins@unaffiliated/isfo
rinsects) has joined #olpc-meeting
Oct 15 12:46:38 <mchua|xo> it rusns out that i was laboring
under the weight of the hierarchical files sytem asll the ti
me, in fact it was makng me do more work
Oct 15 12:46:55 <mchua|xo> it's basically like - well, lets'
start playign around with these ideas in a regular style
Oct 15 12:46:58 <mchua|xo> so I made a tag cd program
Oct 15 12:47:13 <mchua|xo> whenI changed dirs - i changed pa
ths - it would suggest that in the future you can get here m
roe easily by usign thse 2 words
Oct 15 12:47:17 <mchua|xo> and it would just jump me there
Oct 15 12:47:25 <mchua|xo> so if wiat tend to get to ol/cpsu
gar/toolkit/solar/sugar/blah
Oct 15 12:47:31 <mchua|xo> i could just type two of them and
it would drop me in
Oct 15 12:47:41 <mchua|xo> it would tll me sugar space and i
t woudl tell me the thigns tagged wtih sugar
Oct 15 12:47:43 <mchua|xo> that woudl be useful
Oct 15 12:47:58 <mchua|xo> "sugar g" is probably all that's
needed to get to that directory
Oct 15 12:48:08 <mchua|xo> i think it's an itneresting way t
o do the tagged files ystem w/o using the joural stuff
Oct 15 12:48:13 <mchua|xo> what if we didn't need a fancy cd
program
Oct 15 12:48:18 <tomeu> I guess the slides aren't on the net
yet, right?
Oct 15 12:48:20 <mchua|xo> but had a fielsystem that made di
rs for allt he palces you can go
Oct 15 12:48:32 <mchua|xo> so if I'm in... I wuld see all th
e tags in that system
Oct 15 12:48:39 <mchua|xo> tomeu: probaly not, he was modify
ing them right before we started :)
Oct 15 12:49:00 <mchua|xo> so I can make an mstone directory
and then michael could see that stuff
Oct 15 12:49:00 <tomeu> ok, I may have more questions afterw
ards ;)
Oct 15 12:49:04 <mchua|xo> it has some interesting security
properties
Oct 15 12:49:10 <mchua|xo> tomeu: we'll probalby ahve a bett
er transcript afterwards too
Oct 15 12:49:22 <mchua|xo> and it tursn otu that I think tha
t te unix security model generally works liek this
Oct 15 12:49:23 <tomeu> oh, no video recording?
Oct 15 12:49:32 <mchua|xo> because most system services don'
t recursively go through these direcroeis
Oct 15 12:49:41 <mchua|xo> tomeu: video, audio, and slidesha
re + transcript
Oct 15 12:49:44 <mchua|xo> (separate high-qual audio)
Oct 15 12:50:00 <mchua|xo> so if i"m in a directy and I didn
't want o modify inkscape or ff or wahtever i could moutnt h
is tag view of the dir
Oct 15 12:50:02 <mchua|xo> but the directoires are just tags
Oct 15 12:50:09 <tomeu> awesome!
Oct 15 12:50:18 <mchua|xo> so i can tag this w video and i a
m in this toher program now it'll show as tagged w video
Oct 15 12:50:42 <mchua|xo> cavallo: kids don't have preconce
ptions
Oct 15 12:50:58 <cjb> cavallo: there are legitimate ideas in
computing that we want to take root
Oct 15 12:51:04 <cjb> perhaps 'naming a file' or something l
ike that
Oct 15 12:51:15 <mchua|xo> (and... I'm... lost with david's
question - thanks cjb)
Oct 15 12:51:30 <mchua|xo> scott: global interface - if I do
n't... a kid starting out isn't actually goint ohave any tag
s here
Oct 15 12:51:32 <mchua|xo> except maybe activities
Oct 15 12:51:40 <cjb> cavallo: when in this model are they m
aking tags?
Oct 15 12:51:46 <cjb> when in their activity?
Oct 15 12:51:51 <mchua|xo> cavallo: when will they say "when
do I make a tag?"
Oct 15 12:51:52 <cjb> scott: you should talk to Eben
Oct 15 12:52:02 <mchua|xo> scott: i have a handwavy mental m
odel - i think of gmail's subject lien
Oct 15 12:52:11 <mchua|xo> you can make a msg w/o a subject
line in gmail, but they make it difficult
Oct 15 12:52:15 <mchua|xo> it 'll never force them to make a
godo name
Oct 15 12:52:20 <mchua|xo> but we could gently suggest that
they might do it
Oct 15 12:52:35 <mchua|xo> eben: (says something I can't hea
r)
Oct 15 12:53:03 <cjb> naming is kinda orthogonal
Oct 15 12:53:11 <mchua|xo> scott: for things on my hdd - lik
e images, i never name them, they're img_5235.jpg
Oct 15 12:53:16 <mchua|xo> i can ignroe that... it's going t
o be optional
Oct 15 12:53:23 <cjb> <eben> we might suggest naming when ki
ds click stop
Oct 15 12:53:27 <mchua|xo> i think ti's kind of an orthogona
l issue i thinkw e can do better in ehcouraging people to gi
ve names
Oct 15 12:53:34 <cjb> on an activity that hasn't been named
yet, maybe give a suggestion
Oct 15 12:54:07 <mchua|xo> (cjl, haven't forgotten you - eac
h question is taking a long time to answer :)
Oct 15 12:54:55 <mchua|xo> scott: tags and structure - this
is a key idea in computing, but i'm not convicne the hierarc
hy is
Oct 15 12:55:09 <mchua|xo> i'll make a blanet statement - "t
hey key problem I'm rying to solve is interoperation with th
e outside world."
Oct 15 12:55:30 <mchua|xo> there are lots of ther machiens a
round someone will give you a usb key with files on it and y
ou'll use an aplicatiotn that hasn't been sugarized and weir
d thigns happen
Oct 15 12:55:46 <mchua|xo> so what i'm trying to do is can w
e provide a better means to interoperate with that when it h
appens
Oct 15 12:55:59 <mchua|xo> i think a common problem is that
they can't find their files
Oct 15 12:56:06 <mchua|xo> cavallo: that's right - they can'
t find their files, not that they can't interoperate with...
Oct 15 12:56:30 <mchua|xo> it's an all xo environment in pil
ots - i think that is th issue - that's not going to general
ize, to say use an usb key
Oct 15 12:56:45 <mchua|xo> so in this world interoperability
across platforms might be an issue but not there
Oct 15 12:56:55 <mchua|xo> scott: but interop for devs is im
portant - i can't dogfood because of it
Oct 15 12:57:22 <mchua|xo> i believe this is soething that w
ould be in the jouranl, we could use it to grow our userbase
Oct 15 12:57:49 <mchua|xo> eben: i think we can take the jou
ranl and slolwoion troduce the notion of tags i fyo u wan in
trocue the notion of tags... if you think of a title with al
l the wrods in the title
Oct 15 12:57:52 <mchua|xo> you'rea lready thinking about the
tags
Oct 15 12:58:05 <mchua|xo> so if the title... and somethign
suggested tags, all of a sudden you ahve this easy way fo cl
icking on things
Oct 15 12:58:28 <mchua|xo> cavallo: i took these pictures -
and therea re mulitple ways of thinking about it - but if yo
u have kids will they be able to do stuff with the stuf ftha
'ts on the machine
Oct 15 12:58:40 <mchua|xo> nameing it ,and forcing it, and m
aking it diffiuclt ot tona meit adding more to the tags it a
t thes ame time thorugh the joruanl gets you something
Oct 15 12:58:43 <mchua|xo> but that'ss thte use case of the
kids
Oct 15 12:58:55 <mchua|xo> (multiple people talking at once)
Oct 15 12:59:08 <mchua|xo> mstone: i think you're talking ab
out a way for people to think in many simultaneous ways
Oct 15 12:59:31 <mchua|xo> dfa: i thin people are comig from
this from a wide variety of places
Oct 15 12:59:35 <mchua|xo> to cularify what's going on here
Oct 15 12:59:41 <mchua|xo> the serach capability is alreayd
implemented has been for months
Oct 15 12:59:52 <mchua|xo> where if you write a write doc an
d you got search yo can search for jouranl you can search rf
or text you wrote inside write
Oct 15 12:59:55 <mchua|xo> and that document wil pop up
Oct 15 13:00:01 <mchua|xo> if you wrote a memo and called it
memo, if you remembered it, that's fine
Oct 15 13:00:20 <mchua|xo> tags are also the idea of tags is
to be able to add searchable properties to objects that are
not inside the objct
Oct 15 13:00:32 <mchua|xo> what scott is proposing is a furt
her refirnement
Oct 15 13:00:33 <mchua|xo> of this
Oct 15 13:01:10 <mchua|xo> gettys: imagine an entirely searc
h-based interface
Oct 15 13:01:17 <mchua|xo> i end up stop having to file
Oct 15 13:01:23 * dsaxena_away is now known as dsaxena
Oct 15 13:01:27 <mchua|xo> filing was an alien concept becau
se you were so confident at beinga ble to find everything al
lthe time
Oct 15 13:01:37 <mchua|xo> my observation was taht gags was
the unusual thing that - when you had a todo list on every t
opic
Oct 15 13:01:41 <mchua|xo> and you had to ask something wher
e it was
Oct 15 13:01:44 <mchua|xo> and it was still going to be obvi
ous from the content
Oct 15 13:01:54 <mchua|xo> (talking about use of gmail)
Oct 15 13:02:05 <cjb> questions from cjb:
Oct 15 13:02:16 <mchua|xo> joe: whos' gong to teach kdis how
to use it? (I think that's what he's asking)
Oct 15 13:02:19 <mchua|xo> scott: you don't have to
Oct 15 13:02:20 <cjb> * everyone's talking about search for
text, but not everything in the datastore is a text file
Oct 15 13:02:22 * marcopg (n=marco@host163-6-dynamic.5-87-r.
retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #olpc-meeting
Oct 15 13:02:41 <mchua|xo> cjb+1
Oct 15 13:02:58 <mchua|xo> (scott pulling up windows left an
d right on his machine!)
Oct 15 13:03:07 <cjb> * Scott did a good job of convincing u
s that ordered tags aren't necessary, so I'm similarly uncon
vinced that they should be in the UI
Oct 15 13:03:14 <mchua|xo> this is actually my journal - (on
my computer)
Oct 15 13:03:17 <cjb> (maybe a "filesystem activity" for tha
t)
Oct 15 13:03:52 <cjb> (Scott demoing new journal)
Oct 15 13:05:42 * mchua|xo has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com
ajax IRC Client")
Oct 15 13:06:25 <cjl> ack, we lost mchua aka our trapscripti
onbot!
Oct 15 13:06:51 <tomeu> oh, I thought everybody got silent t
here ;)
Oct 15 13:07:06 <cjb> using pinot for desktop search
Oct 15 13:07:10 * aa has quit (Remote closed the connection)
Oct 15 13:07:11 <cjb> pinot's gui is ugly
Oct 15 13:07:15 <cjb> but the backend is nice
Oct 15 13:07:19 <cjb> uses xapian for search
Oct 15 13:07:26 <cjb> alternative OpenSearch backend
Oct 15 13:07:31 * aa (n=aa@r190-135-134-180.dialup.adsl.ante
ldata.net.uy) has joined #olpc-meeting
Oct 15 13:07:31 <cjl> thanks for picking up the slack cjb
Oct 15 13:07:36 * mchua|xo (i=12553180@gateway/web/ajax/mibb
it.com/x-a7b646a83963eae9) has joined #olpc-meeting
Oct 15 13:07:45 <cjb> xapian probabilistic IR system
Oct 15 13:07:53 <cjb> looks at context, relevance, scores
Oct 15 13:07:54 <mchua|xo> (sorry guys, battery died)
Oct 15 13:08:00 <cjb> works like Google does
Oct 15 13:08:05 <cjb> does magic pagerank stuf
Oct 15 13:08:10 <mchua|xo> wer'e nto using any of these extr
a features
Oct 15 13:08:14 <cjb> .. but we're not actually using any of
that
Oct 15 13:08:20 <cjb> gmail doesn't use any of that
Oct 15 13:08:46 <mchua|xo> so luckily, xapian also has a v e
fficient bool probablitstic serach... we're using the "under
4 feet tall" aspect of xapian
Oct 15 13:08:49 <mchua|xo> not the ferrari aspect
Oct 15 13:08:59 <mchua|xo> it does lets us find things sorte
d by time really fast
Oct 15 13:09:09 <mchua|xo> most things when you say sort by
time it will go through all the docs and then sort it
Oct 15 13:09:27 <mchua|xo> so all the fancy ferrariness of x
apain is right there
Oct 15 13:09:30 <mchua|xo> (left sidebar)
Oct 15 13:09:38 <mchua|xo> and these terms are relevant to t
hese
Oct 15 13:09:50 <mchua|xo> so it's nice that we have all thi
s stuff under the hood bht altl ehf ancy features that give
you better suggestions
Oct 15 13:10:00 <mchua|xo> bht... blah blahb --> gets turned
into
Oct 15 13:10:07 <mchua|xo> so it's demo time
Oct 15 13:11:13 <mchua|xo> scott: here are some questions i
have
Oct 15 13:11:26 <mchua|xo> (cjl, cjb - should find some way
to ask your qeustions too)
Oct 15 13:11:48 <mchua|xo> it should be easy to go back by d
eleting tags in your search
Oct 15 13:11:52 <mchua|xo> i'm not cnovinced this is the rig
ht wya
Oct 15 13:12:03 <mchua|xo> previews? i talked about a little
- i'm not satisfied with the way preview sare displayed
Oct 15 13:12:42 <mchua|xo> in gnome, nobody ever fills this
(frequent-use) folder with useful stuff
Oct 15 13:12:57 <mchua|xo> so if i have somethign thta gives
me suggestions, i mgith want to have something here that le
ts me pin those in place
Oct 15 13:13:03 <mchua|xo> so this mockup has stars beside t
ehse places
Oct 15 13:13:12 <mchua|xo> what that does is that this stuff
changes periodically but the starred thigns are ipnned down
Oct 15 13:13:41 <mchua|xo> i'm not completely convinced w/ h
ow this looks and feels yet
Oct 15 13:14:01 <mchua|xo> gettys: interesign questions - ar
e these (pins) for tags, or are they actually queries?
Oct 15 13:14:41 <mchua|xo> so the query tags i've implemente
d are the same who waht where when that the ui shows and so
what:pippy means what docs i imade in ppy
Oct 15 13:15:01 <mchua|xo> or i can type something out and i
t will do a free text search
Oct 15 13:15:14 <mchua|xo> so italked with some guys who wer
e into semantics
Oct 15 13:15:32 <mchua|xo> so if i searched for who:chris it
might also suggest good extensins of my serach
Oct 15 13:15:56 <mchua|xo> cavallo: i18n?
Oct 15 13:16:15 <mchua|xo> scott: my plan is to hunt down t
he people who have done this wt translation systems and nail
them to the wall about it
Oct 15 13:16:35 <mchua|xo> scott: if there's a complicated q
uery you want o do you can reify the tags to do it
Oct 15 13:17:17 <mchua|xo> cjb: ben talked about how tags ar
ent very useful, how about images searching for images?
Oct 15 13:17:28 <mchua|xo> scott: i put a picture as a draft
... in berlin... that was a month ago...
Oct 15 13:17:44 <mchua|xo> michael: consider 2o f the larger
images - facebook - search of images of people, of faces
Oct 15 13:17:54 <mchua|xo> scott: i'm going to put that in '
semantic magic'
Oct 15 13:18:03 <mchua|xo> ben: also the most popular img se
raches on the web are tagging
Oct 15 13:18:14 <mchua|xo> cjb: when you compare to gmail, g
mail si all text
Oct 15 13:18:21 <mchua|xo> scott: that is true
Oct 15 13:18:55 <mchua|xo> the way gmail works - for ex; whe
n i realized gmail wasn't doing any relevant sorting at all,
i thought it was magic but when i actually looked under the
covers after 2-3 years I didn't realize this
Oct 15 13:19:20 <mchua|xo> then when i looked at my google s
earches i also realized my searches were all really really s
hort
Oct 15 13:19:25 <mchua|xo> most people don't work like that
Oct 15 13:19:34 <mchua|xo> if they are searching for X or Y,
they just search for X Y
Oct 15 13:19:50 <mchua|xo> gettys: i found i used tags less
and less as time went on
Oct 15 13:20:08 <mchua|xo> as i get more and more confident
to search and be able to do siple queries, i just looked at
name queries and remembering what that naemd queries had bee
n
Oct 15 13:20:21 <mchua|xo> scott: i think the suggestions en
gine is really powerful too
Oct 15 13:20:46 <mchua|xo> egarrison: legacy apps?
Oct 15 13:20:51 <mchua|xo> scott: they rock
Oct 15 13:21:24 <mchua|xo> (opens sugar-emulator)
Oct 15 13:22:08 <mchua|xo> (opens inkscape from terminal act
ivity)
Oct 15 13:23:00 <mchua|xo> most of the things are not really
sugarized
Oct 15 13:23:13 <mchua|xo> (points out buttons and the like)
Oct 15 13:23:25 <mchua|xo> now pay no attention... the magic
of LD_PRELOAD, scott's going to do something you should ign
ore...
Oct 15 13:23:33 <mchua|xo> (reopens inskscape with magic ld_
preload thing)
Oct 15 13:23:37 <mchua|xo> hey look, it is the jouranl!
Oct 15 13:23:50 <mchua|xo> (searches through jouranl with ta
gs)
Oct 15 13:24:19 <mchua|xo> this is the second lesson of the
largo talk - there is no reason people can't embed the journ
al
Oct 15 13:24:23 <mchua|xo> into their apps
Oct 15 13:24:33 <mchua|xo> this is a compeltely sep process
- jouranl in pythion, inkscape != python
Oct 15 13:24:56 <mchua|xo> so you can search, journal makes
the file you pick available to inkscape, and (away you go)
Oct 15 13:25:10 <mchua|xo> you can also search for remote fi
les as well
Oct 15 13:25:58 <mchua|xo> another lesson from largo: people
don't want to learn new things, if you can do it in the fil
e browser you should be abel to do it in the open windwo bec
ause maybe you realize you need to make a new folder
Oct 15 13:26:37 <mchua|xo> (starts iceweasel)
Oct 15 13:26:46 <mchua|xo> this is a non ported version
Oct 15 13:26:52 <mchua|xo> (brings up open dilaog)
Oct 15 13:26:56 <mchua|xo> and it's the journal again!
Oct 15 13:27:17 <mchua|xo> baically there is a nice abstract
gtk interface for a file chooser
Oct 15 13:27:44 <mchua|xo> and we basically sub out most of
it for (magic bring up the journal stuff)
Oct 15 13:27:56 <mchua|xo> the q before was how to make this
work with existing things
Oct 15 13:28:04 <cjb> journal dialog preloader is written in
Vala
Oct 15 13:28:06 <mchua|xo> in most cases we just want to sho
w the journal
Oct 15 13:28:26 <mchua|xo> scott: what if it deosnt' work? i
t's a dbus interface...
Oct 15 13:28:32 <mchua|xo> (simultaneous conversations i'm m
issing)
Oct 15 13:30:12 * julianob (n=julianob@189.63.166.32) has jo
ined #olpc-meeting
Oct 15 13:30:41 <mchua|xo> (discussion outside the scope of
this talk)
Oct 15 13:31:26 <mchua|xo> scott: we want to avoid the user
having to learn all these different interfaces - use the jou
rnal for everything.
Oct 15 13:32:06 <mchua|xo> scott: let's save this discussion
for later i need to get through the slides
Oct 15 13:32:08 <mchua|xo> ok. so i love amazon
Oct 15 13:32:11 <mchua|xo> or at least a9
Oct 15 13:32:24 <mchua|xo> it's a really nice thing - it def
ines an open search interface and things can interoperate
Oct 15 13:32:29 <mchua|xo> with their results on that
Oct 15 13:32:35 <mchua|xo> so let's send... that's lal I nee
d tos ay about that atm
Oct 15 13:32:56 <mchua|xo> this is the fun part
Oct 15 13:33:09 <mchua|xo> (scott starting things on his com
puter...)
Oct 15 13:33:39 * frances (n=183d3b73@olpc.osuosl.org) has j
oined #olpc-meeting
Oct 15 13:34:04 <mchua|xo> so here is a search interrface, o
ver htp
Oct 15 13:34:06 <mchua|xo> http
Oct 15 13:34:16 <mchua|xo> in theory this should only be the
things i actually want to share with other people
Oct 15 13:34:21 <mchua|xo> but the cool things about this...
is that...
Oct 15 13:34:39 <mchua|xo> I can add a search engine to my w
eb browser, and search for things like... "puerto rico"
Oct 15 13:35:00 <mchua|xo> (he's searching on a web interfac
e done through a9)
Oct 15 13:36:46 <mchua|xo> i can now make things that belong
to my friends that look just like the journal entries that
i have
Oct 15 13:36:57 <mchua|xo> so I right clikc on chris, and i
have this thing that says "look at his file"
Oct 15 13:37:05 <mchua|xo> then i'll see the same journal in
terface
Oct 15 13:37:29 <mchua|xo> if my friend does not have an xo
they can subscribe to some sort of feed of my journal instea
d
Oct 15 13:38:21 <mchua|xo> so if i want to use this as a blo
g, then i tag it with 'blog' and anyone in the world can sub
scribe to the (autogenerated) feed of my xo's blog...
Oct 15 13:38:54 <mchua|xo> scott: network principles -t he t
ricy think is that i need a name so i can sub to an rss feed
Oct 15 13:39:08 <mchua|xo> you cna see [[Network principles]
] for more discussion
Oct 15 13:39:23 <mchua|xo> --- end talk ---
Oct 15 13:39:33 <mchua|xo> scott:what did i do wrong?
Oct 15 13:39:41 <mchua|xo> ben: <3 the things you've done
Oct 15 13:39:51 <mchua|xo> now they're in code form which is
a huge leap
Oct 15 13:40:03 <mchua|xo> have difficulty w/ notion of tags
you're using
Oct 15 13:40:25 <mchua|xo> when I work with tags I either en
d up with somethign that does not look like tags or does not
look like a dir structure
Oct 15 13:40:37 <mchua|xo> scott: the reason I made this mok
cup is so I could use it - have experience with it
Oct 15 13:40:44 <mchua|xo> i don't think it'll look like a d
ir structure
Oct 15 13:40:56 <mchua|xo> i'm hoping that this is a continu
ing discusson on the use of it
Oct 15 13:41:29 <mchua|xo> one thing is that there is an amb
iguity around... (I missed this)
Oct 15 13:41:46 <mchua|xo> ben: the other thing is that I se
e less value in the syntactic where-colon, what-colon search
es
Oct 15 13:41:56 <mchua|xo> talking w eben about what sort of
syntax we were actually going to use for that
Oct 15 13:42:05 <mchua|xo> i think that's more easy, valuabl
e
Oct 15 13:42:17 <mchua|xo> scott: i used the google terms bc
many people were already using it
Oct 15 13:42:52 <mchua|xo> typing in tags is mroe error pron
e than being able to select from a list of existing tags
Oct 15 13:46:06 * adricnet (n=adric@adsl-145-97-192.asm.bell
south.net) has joined #olpc-meeting
Oct 15 13:47:09 <mchua|xo> joe: suppose i have 2 machines, o
ne an XO on sugar/linux, one ms windows
Oct 15 13:47:13 <mchua|xo> i take a picture, i put file in s
tick
Oct 15 13:47:19 <mchua|xo> i put stick in windows machine, s
ave the file
Oct 15 13:47:31 <mchua|xo> i put stick in xo, tag, also save
it
Oct 15 13:47:37 <mchua|xo> tiem passes, i forget
Oct 15 13:47:43 <mchua|xo> now in both machines i want to fi
nd my file.
Oct 15 13:47:45 <mchua|xo> what do i do?
Oct 15 13:48:01 <mchua|xo> scott: that depends on a lot of t
he details - where i saved it, how much do i know about wind
ows
Oct 15 13:48:26 <mchua|xo> if i put it on my windows desktop
, it'll still be there
Oct 15 13:48:35 <mchua|xo> if tag it with 'photos' it'll sti
ll be tagged with photos
Oct 15 13:48:54 <mchua|xo> eben: it won't tag the photos for
you, you can tag w anything you want
Oct 15 13:49:03 <mchua|xo> joe: so from the user's perspecti
ve, what is that?
Oct 15 13:49:14 <mchua|xo> scott: so we have some magic info
rmation here... (searches for type:/jpeg)
Oct 15 13:49:24 <mchua|xo> computer knows about metadata you
might have about a jpeg file
Oct 15 13:50:37 <aa> mchua|xo: thank so much for the transcr
ipt!
Oct 15 13:50:45 <aa> cjb: you too
Oct 15 13:52:36 <mchua|xo> aa: np!
Oct 15 13:53:11 <mchua|xo> i'll post logs from my desktop wh
en I get back there in ~10m
Oct 15 13:55:21 <mchua|xo> too many simul. convos going on a
tm.. i'm going to stop recording
