User talk:Homunq: Difference between revisions

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Welcome[http://www.psend.com/users/afri_can/olpcwel.html]
The Koran


== RE: El bendito "chico" ==
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


''follow up to [[User talk:Xavi#El bendito "chico"]]''
The Romans
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.


: Je... justamente estuve sacando estadísticas del uso de algunos términos (ver [[Translating/Spanish terms]]) que justamente compara las terminologías por países y le agregue el [[Translating/Spanish terms#Caso: child|caso child]] (ya lo automaticé, con lo cual es muy fácil comparar :) '''Revisando los resultados, salta a la vista la preferencia por ''niño''. Esto implicaría empezar a migrar de terminología... zut!'''
[30.1] Alif Lam Mim.
: Uno de mis 'problemas' con el término ''niño'' es su 'ñ'. Por un lado me parece bueno usar esa 'letra exclusiva', pero eso al mismo tiempo crea un problema al momento de escribirlo&mdash;he visto muchas formas de escribir palabras con 'ñ' en teclados qwerty: <tt>nn, nh, ni, gn, ...</tt>. Por otro lado, y esto es totalmente personal, el término ''niño'' siempre me pareció académico, formal, o algo distante. Siempre me ha parecido que las personas prefieren o usan términos más locales y regionales.
[30.2] The Romans are vanquished,
: En fin, tendremos que empezar a migrar... voluntarios? :) Cheers, [[User:Xavi|Xavi]] 13:49, 11 August 2007 (EDT)
[30.3] In a near land, and they, after being vanquished, shall overcome,

[30.4] Within a few years. Allah's is the command before and after; and on that day the believers shall rejoice,
: PS: As for the gender issue, I mostly agree with the discriminatory connotations, but [http://spanish.about.com/library/beginning/bl-beg-nouns-gender.htm spanish is not gender neutral]&mdash;quite the contrary. English is much more flexible at generating and coining neologisms and terms, the academic nature of spanish inhibits that. Also, we must accept the differences and not impose cultural biases on perception (ie: just because the USA is all wound up on a subject doesn't mean the rest of the world has to follow suit). Culture-shock cuts both ways. I think we should strive for neutrality whenever possible, but artificially impossing it just confuses things most of the time: reading text with <tt>los/las niñas/os</tt> everywhere is the best way to hide the message... [[User:Xavi|Xavi]] 14:15, 11 August 2007 (EDT)
[30.5] With the help of Allah; He helps whom He pleases; and He is the Mighty, the Merciful;

[30.6] (This is) Allah's promise! Allah will not fail His promise, but most people do not know.
:: ''follow up''
[30.7] They know the outward of this world's life, but of the hereafter they are absolutely heedless.

[30.8] Do they not reflect within themselves: Allah did not create the heavens and the earth and what is between them two but with truth, and (for) an appointed term? And most surely most of the people are deniers of the meeting of their Lord.
::: Protegidas? No veo ninguna&mdash;[[Special:Protectedpages]] solo muestra una página realmente protegida y solo para usuarios no-registrados (las otras páginas ahí son por spamming). Con lo cual... voluntarios? :) BTW, usando la [http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&safe=off&cof=&domains=wiki.laptop.org&q=chico&btnG=Search&sitesearch=wiki.laptop.org búsqueda de ''chico''] (de [[Google]] limitada al sitio) encontré 95 hits.
[30.9] Have they not travelled in the earth and seen how was the end of those before them? They were stronger than these in prowess, and dug up the earth, and built on it in greater abundance than these have built on it, and there came to them their apostles with clear arguments; so it was not beseeming for Allah that He should deal with them unjustly, but they dealt unjustly with their own souls.
::: Quixotic? No more than trying to de-gender biology ;) As for the RAE... I've always resented and have been against their grip on '''my''' language - heck, in Argentina we use the ''voseo'' but books don't teach it! Why? My finger points to the RAE (passing through the local academy) and language teachers... So in that sense, my battle is not gender-related but freedom-wise, once we set the language free we can tackle (maybe ;) the softening of the gender issues of the language :) Cheers, --[[User:Xavi|Xavi]] 16:00, 11 August 2007 (EDT)
[30.10] Then evil was the end of those who did evil, because they | rejected the communications of Allah and used to mock them.

[30.11] Allah originates the creation, then reproduces it, then to Him you shall be brought back.
::: About your specific mention, [[Core principles/lang-es]] would seem fully ''niñizado'', wouldn't it? And alternating gender? I don't necessarily object to it, but it's '''not''' the same as in english with plurals, as the spanish femenine plural is '''more gender specific''' than the masculine plural&mdash;maybe not in the written form, but most definitely in the meaning.
[30.12] And at the time when the hour shall come the guilty shall be in despair.
::: If by 'protection' you mean the ''green OLPC ribbon'' on top, that is just a marker denoting not the 'protection' of the page, but rather a 'watch what you edit here'. IOW, you are free to edit, but double and triple check, as the contents are 'official'. [[User:Xavi|Xavi]] 16:00, 11 August 2007 (EDT)
[30.13] And they shall not have any intercessors from among their gods they have joined with God, and they shall be deniers of their associate-gods.

[30.14] And at the time when the hour shall come, at that time they shall become separated one from the other.
:::: ''follow up''
[30.15] Then as to those who believed and did good, they shall be made happy in a garden.

[30.16] And as to those who disbelieved and rejected Our communications and the meeting of the hereafter, these shall be brought over to the chastisement.
::::: Revert? Hey, I've done plenty of translations, but I'm not the owner :) Most of them were done too fast to consider or pick the exact terms, and many really need a review, so you are more than welcome to tweak them. I did re-tweak some of your changes though, but minor or for gender consistency.
[30.17] Therefore glory be to Allah when you enter upon the time of the evening and when you enter upon the time of the morning.
::::: Just for the record, I doubt I'll go the extra-mile to switch gender. After many years (going back to my school days) where I proactively used the los/las as gender encompassing technique, my current approach (in the wiki) is one of "least surprise" of the reader, as my main objective is to make content accessible. But please feel free to do it yourself! :) In the process you may also catch whatever localisms and better wording! After all, this is a wiki :)
[30.18] And to Him belongs praise in the heavens and the earth, and at nightfall and when you are at midday.
::::: BTW, 'enganche' (lousy translation, I know) is used in some places as something that engages, or hooks, your attention. There is no real translation for 'engage' as it's context-sensitive in spanish. [[User:Xavi|Xavi]] 19:25, 11 August 2007 (EDT)
[30.19] He brings forth the living from the dead and brings forth the dead from the living, and gives life to the earth after its death, and thus shall you be brought forth.
[30.20] And one of His signs is that He created you from dust, then lo! you are mortals (who) scatter.
[30.21] And one of His signs is that He created mates for you from yourselves that you may find rest in them, and He put between you love and compassion; most surely there are signs in this for a people who reflect.
[30.22] And one of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth and the diversity of your tongues and colors; most surely there are signs in this for the learned.
[30.23] And one of His signs is your sleeping and your seeking of His grace by night and (by) day; most surely there are signs in this for a people who would hear.
[30.24] And one of His signs is that He shows you the lightning for fear and for hope, and sends down water from the clouds then gives life therewith to the earth after its death; most surely there are signs in this for a people who understand
[30.25] And one of His signs is that the heaven and the earth subsist by His command, then when He calls you with a (single) call from out of the earth, lo! you come forth.
[30.26] And His is whosoever is in the heavens and the earth; all are obedient to Him.
[30.27] And He it is Who originates the creation, then reproduces it, and it is easy to Him; and His are the most exalted attributes in the heavens and the earth, and He is the Mighty, the Wise.
[30.28] He sets forth to you a parable relating to yourselves: Have you among those whom your right hands possess partners in what We have given you for sustenance, so that with respect to it you are alike; you fear them as you fear each other? Thus do We make the communications distinct for a people who understand.
[30.29] Nay! those who are unjust follow their low desires without any knowledge; so who can guide him whom Allah makes err? And they shall have no helpers.
[30.30] Then set your face upright for religion in the right state-- the nature made by Allah in which He has made men; there is no altering of Allah's creation; that is the right religion, but most people do not know--
[30.31] Turning to Him, and be careful of (your duty to) Him and keep up prayer and be not of the polytheists
[30.32] Of those who divided their religion and became seas every sect rejoicing in what they had with them
[30.33] And when harm afflicts men, they call upon their Lord, turning to Him, then when He makes them taste of mercy from Him, lo! some of them begin to associate (others) with their Lord,
[30.34] So as to be ungrateful for what We have given them; but enjoy yourselves (for a while), for you shall soon come to know.
[30.35] Or, have We sent down upon them an authority so that it speaks of that which they associate with Him?
[30.36] And when We make people taste of mercy they rejoice in it, and if an evil befall them for what their hands have already wrought, lo! they are in despair.
[30.37] Do they not see that Allah makes ample provision for whom He pleases, or straitens? Most surely there are signs in this for a people who believe.
[30.38] Then give to the near of kin his due, and to the needy and the wayfarer; this is best for those who desire Allah's pleasure, and these it is who are successful.
[30.39] And whatever you lay out as usury, so that it may increase in the property of men, it shall not increase with Allah; and whatever you give in charity, desiring Allah's pleasure-- it is these (persons) that shall get manifold.
[30.40] Allah is He Who created you, then gave you sustenance, then He causes you to die, then brings you to life. Is there any of your associate-gods who does aught of it? Glory be to Him, and exalted be He above what they associate (with Him).
[30.41] Corruption has appeared in the land and the sea on account of what the hands of men have wrought, that He may make them taste a part of that which they have done, so that they may return.
[30.42] Say: Travel in the land, then see how was the end of those before; most of them were polytheists.
[30.43] Then turn thy face straight to the right religion before there come from Allah the day which cannot be averted; on that day they shall become separated.
[30.44] Whoever disbelieves, he shall be responsible for his disbelief, and whoever does good, they prepare (good) for their own souls,
[30.45] That He may reward those who believe and do good out of His grace; surely He does not love the unbelievers.
[30.46] And one of His signs is that He sends forth the winds bearing good news, and that He may make your taste of His mercy, and that the ships may run by His command, and that you may seek of His grace, and that you may be grateful.
[30.47] And certainly We sent before you apostles to their people, so they came to them with clear arguments, then We gave the punishment to those who were guilty; and helping the believers is ever incumbent on Us.
[30.48] Allah is he Who sends forth the winds so they raise a cloud, then He spreads it forth in the sky as He pleases, and He breaks it up so that you see the rain coming forth from inside it; then when He causes it to fall upon whom He pleases of His servants, lo! they are joyful
[30.49] Though they were before this, before it was sent down upon them, confounded in sure despair.
[30.50] Look then at the signs of Allah's mercy, how He gives life to the earth after its death, most surely He will raise the dead to life; and He has power over all things.
[30.51] And if We send a wind and they see it to be yellow, they would after that certainly continue to disbelieve
[30.52] For surely you cannot, make the dead to hear and you cannot make the deaf to hear the call, when they turn back and
[30.53] Nor can you lead away the blind out of their error. You cannot make to hear any but those who believe in Our communications so they shall submit.
[30.54] Allah is He Who created you from a state of weakness then He gave strength after weakness, then ordained weakness and hoary hair after strength; He creates what He pleases, and He is the Knowing, the Powerful.
[30.55] And at the time when the hour shall come, the guilty shall swear (that) they did not tarry but an hour; thus are they ever turned away.
[30.56] And those who are given knowledge and faith will say: Certainly you tarried according to the ordinance of Allah till the day of resurrection, so this is the day of resurrection, but you did not know.
[30.57] But on that day their excuse shall not profit those who were unjust, nor shall they be regarded with goodwill.
[30.58] And certainly We have set forth for men every kind of example in this Quran; and if you should bring them a communication, those who disbelieve would certainly say: You are naught but false claimants.
[30.59] Thus does Allah set a seal on the hearts of those who do not know.
[30.60] Therefore be patient; surely the promise of Allah is true and let not those who have no certainty hold you in light estimation.

Revision as of 00:52, 9 December 2007

Welcome[1]

RE: El bendito "chico"

follow up to User talk:Xavi#El bendito "chico"

Je... justamente estuve sacando estadísticas del uso de algunos términos (ver Translating/Spanish terms) que justamente compara las terminologías por países y le agregue el caso child (ya lo automaticé, con lo cual es muy fácil comparar :) Revisando los resultados, salta a la vista la preferencia por niño. Esto implicaría empezar a migrar de terminología... zut!
Uno de mis 'problemas' con el término niño es su 'ñ'. Por un lado me parece bueno usar esa 'letra exclusiva', pero eso al mismo tiempo crea un problema al momento de escribirlo—he visto muchas formas de escribir palabras con 'ñ' en teclados qwerty: nn, nh, ni, gn, .... Por otro lado, y esto es totalmente personal, el término niño siempre me pareció académico, formal, o algo distante. Siempre me ha parecido que las personas prefieren o usan términos más locales y regionales.
En fin, tendremos que empezar a migrar... voluntarios? :) Cheers, Xavi 13:49, 11 August 2007 (EDT)
PS: As for the gender issue, I mostly agree with the discriminatory connotations, but spanish is not gender neutral—quite the contrary. English is much more flexible at generating and coining neologisms and terms, the academic nature of spanish inhibits that. Also, we must accept the differences and not impose cultural biases on perception (ie: just because the USA is all wound up on a subject doesn't mean the rest of the world has to follow suit). Culture-shock cuts both ways. I think we should strive for neutrality whenever possible, but artificially impossing it just confuses things most of the time: reading text with los/las niñas/os everywhere is the best way to hide the message... Xavi 14:15, 11 August 2007 (EDT)
follow up
Protegidas? No veo ninguna—Special:Protectedpages solo muestra una página realmente protegida y solo para usuarios no-registrados (las otras páginas ahí son por spamming). Con lo cual... voluntarios? :) BTW, usando la búsqueda de chico (de Google limitada al sitio) encontré 95 hits.
Quixotic? No more than trying to de-gender biology ;) As for the RAE... I've always resented and have been against their grip on my language - heck, in Argentina we use the voseo but books don't teach it! Why? My finger points to the RAE (passing through the local academy) and language teachers... So in that sense, my battle is not gender-related but freedom-wise, once we set the language free we can tackle (maybe ;) the softening of the gender issues of the language :) Cheers, --Xavi 16:00, 11 August 2007 (EDT)
About your specific mention, Core principles/lang-es would seem fully niñizado, wouldn't it? And alternating gender? I don't necessarily object to it, but it's not the same as in english with plurals, as the spanish femenine plural is more gender specific than the masculine plural—maybe not in the written form, but most definitely in the meaning.
If by 'protection' you mean the green OLPC ribbon on top, that is just a marker denoting not the 'protection' of the page, but rather a 'watch what you edit here'. IOW, you are free to edit, but double and triple check, as the contents are 'official'. Xavi 16:00, 11 August 2007 (EDT)
follow up
Revert? Hey, I've done plenty of translations, but I'm not the owner :) Most of them were done too fast to consider or pick the exact terms, and many really need a review, so you are more than welcome to tweak them. I did re-tweak some of your changes though, but minor or for gender consistency.
Just for the record, I doubt I'll go the extra-mile to switch gender. After many years (going back to my school days) where I proactively used the los/las as gender encompassing technique, my current approach (in the wiki) is one of "least surprise" of the reader, as my main objective is to make content accessible. But please feel free to do it yourself! :) In the process you may also catch whatever localisms and better wording! After all, this is a wiki :)
BTW, 'enganche' (lousy translation, I know) is used in some places as something that engages, or hooks, your attention. There is no real translation for 'engage' as it's context-sensitive in spanish. Xavi 19:25, 11 August 2007 (EDT)
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