User talk:Fasten

Ref: Talk:Games

Hi! I noticed that you zapped all your hard work! :( And left just a question... personally, can't talk for others, I don't mind having a game / game review section. If you hadn't had zapped it, I would probably now be asking for a more 'educational' or 'pedagogical' slant to it :)

I think you should recover your work... as a matter of fact, I just 'rolled it back' :) You can probably work from there with a more 'pedagogical' slant to it... :) Cheers! --Xavi 16:18, 17 January 2007 (EST)

The majority of Linux games that exist are not written with pedagogical goals. The more interesting games may be older commercial games written with pedagogical goals. (see WINE) The game Ancient Empires Lux, for example, links to Wikipedia articles from within the game but it provides no motivation for the player to read the articles. That mistake can also be found in games developed with pedagogical goals when the authors have just combined a knowledge part and a game or a collection of games. Examples for games that try to provide more motivation are (e.g.) Genius - Task Force Biologie, Chemicus II and Mathica --Fasten 08:27, 18 January 2007 (EST)

I agree with you about games not being pedagogical... although my perception is that most games have a pedagogical reading or aspect in them but are not designed to have them. For example, most games were made just to have fun (although the game industry changed that in order for them to make money ;) Later on, somebody may analyze them for their pedagogical value and praised or lambasted them. I doubt (correct me if I'm wrong) that chess was developed to teach strategy, but after analysis it was found that strategy was a major component in how to win the game - thus it can be used to teach strategy, its concepts, amongst other things.

I don't know what the inventor of chess intended it to be, andragogy may have been a goal. Many games contain logical challenges, even XBlast does have some logical challenges. --Fasten 10:08, 18 January 2007 (EST)

Anyway, maybe a pedagogical analysis should be done on many of those games... don't know your credentials in pedagogical issues (mine are nill ;) but maybe you could try searching edutainment review sites and see what are their criteria, analysis and reviews... --Xavi 09:50, 18 January 2007 (EST)

I don't have any credentials in pedagogy myself. --Fasten 09:55, 18 January 2007 (EST)

license question

I'm a bit baffled by your removal of the summary in the Java page because it's "GFDL, not the cc-Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5"... Care to explain? (without too much legalese, please ;) After all it's clearly a quote, and given credit for it. --Xavi 16:44, 31 January 2007 (EST)

There are some issues with the way you made the quote, not with the use of Wikipedia content in general:

Main Text:

• You may not add, remove, or change any content or links within the Main Text itself (with exceptions)

License and Copyright Statement:

• You must link to a local copy of the GFDL.
• You must make it clear that the content from Wikipedia is available under the GFDL license.

Aggregation and cover pages:

• Embedding a Wikipedia Document within a larger webpage. (legally questionable)

I don't think you need to explain what Java is here but if you want it I can add a copy of the article in a way that should be acceptable. --Fasten 07:58, 2 February 2007 (EST)

Thanks for explaining and links (and the Template:WikipediaContent).

The intention is to quote Wikipedia's definition (or summary) on a particular subject. True, it could be done locally (as you propose to do with Java) but the point was to give a definition that carries some weight and avoid wasting your time and others in this wiki replicating the community process that resulted in Wikipedia's overview about Java... or whatever subject.

BTW, I kept all links intact (pointing back to Wikipedia articles) so as to preserve the original text in its fullest—providing some possibly interesting side info for the local reader—while re-inforcing the source of the information.

Needless to say, that Java is not point. I believe that this wiki is and should be cross-disciplinary; so no subject can be taken for granted. IT people will probably not need a definition about Java; but a linguistic, teacher, or whatever may not relate it to anything but the island... and I think it would be helpful to give a valid definition on any particular (and appropriate) subject and not alienate anybody by assuming a particular background (after all this is an educational project ;)

Personally, I found that quoting the summary did a nice balance between local input, foreign definitions and foreign sites... Originally I just placed a link to Wikipedia (I even asked for inter-wiki links to be enabled here).

Having the intention in mind, what would you recommend?

1. Zap all wikipedia content? (leave just an external link)
2. Leave the 'quote' but include your (nice-n-clean) template?
3. Think something else? (ie: re-write, or whatever)

Either way, it's obvious that since I put the text, I will carry out the corrective measures. (iow, I did it, I'll fix it... :) For the record, and since I'm not OLPC myself (I ignore your status) I contacted S.J. Klein regarding this issue as I thought it appropriate to alert somebody within, and that it is being addressed. So, thanks for noting the issue, and sorry for taking up your time! :)

A final (legalese) observation is that according to Wikipedia Copyrights (an official policy page):

... Wikipedia content can be copied, modified, and redistributed so long as the new version grants the same freedoms to others and acknowledges the authors of the Wikipedia article used (a direct link back to the article satisfies our author credit requirement). Wikipedia articles therefore will remain free forever and can be used by anybody subject to certain restrictions, most of which serve to ensure that freedom.

Emphasis by me. The way I read this, the main issue is if CC-Attributions 2.5 remains compatible with GFDL... I would think it does, but I'm no legal expert... --Xavi 16:22, 3 February 2007 (EST)

I do think the template is sufficient if a link to the article itself on Wikipedia is provided as well. --Fasten 08:24, 4 February 2007 (EST)

Hi

Hi, gibt es hier bereits eine deutsche Community, ein deutsches Übersetzungsteam oder etwas in der Art? Bin neu hier und noch total orientierungslos... --Michael Reschke 19:45, 23 July 2007 (EDT)

Da würde ich doch einfach mal auf OLPC Germany und in die Category:Translations lang-de schauen. Im deutschen Übersetzungsteam bist du schon drin, so wie ich das sehe und von einer deutschen Community würde ich nicht sprechen. Ich selber schreibe meistens auf Englisch und habe auch kein großes Interesse an einer speziellen deutschen Gruppe. Das ist angesichts der weiten Verbreitung von Englisch in Deutschland vielleicht auch die sinnvolle Einstellung. Für andere Länder sind Übersetzungsteams sinnvoller und wichtiger. --Fasten 10:44, 24 July 2007 (EDT)