User talk:Xavi

This page is getting quite messy... so I'm thinking either of splitting it up (sub-talk pages—why do I keep thinking in sub-pages? ;)

Until I figure it out, you may keep doing as usual, but you are warned, things will change (hopefuly for the better). For starters, I reinstantiated the TOC... --Xavi 16:59, 10 July 2007 (EDT)

A belated welcome :)

Welcome to the One Laptop per Child wiki. Please make yourself at home; read through the Table of Contents and FAQ, and take a look around.

Other pages of interest:

• Pictures
• Ask OLPC a Question
• OS images for emulation
• Rollout and community building ideas

Feel free to leave me a note on my talk page if you have further questions or need help finding your way around.

Cheers, Sj

Thanks

OLPC TV

Hello, I just registered http://olpc.tv , a place to list and release OLPC related videos. I wonder if you would be interested and if you would have time to join me on that site as a moderator. You can email me at <charbax AT/EN charbax PUNTO/DOT com> if you are interested. I plan not only to have all the videos listed at Video of the OLPC (which I think I mostly have been updating and that page which I created about a year ago on this wiki), I plan to also regularly search youtube and Google Video for new OLPC related videos, also ask OLPC staff to produce more videos, and have a feature where any user can submit videos which a group of moderators can check and release on the video feed. Charbaax posted this.

Wiki Input

Xavi, thank you for all of your input and wiki organization. To answer some of your implicit questions: subpages just create backlinks to their parent pages up top. And yes, we need to turn on interwiki links.... Sj talk

Thanks! I just hope that my signal:noise ratio is within the accepted limits :) So any feedback (go, stop, deviate, focus here, forget that, etc.) will be more than appreciated!! We all have our perks and personal interests... we just have to find the best way for the project!

One thing I would like about interwiki linking is to have an icon (similar to the offsite link) that would denote to which wiki that'll take you.

Another thing, would be the capability of including images from external (wikipedia's mostly) sites. That is to avoid having to upload them to this site (although I don't know what policies would apply to 'divert' traffic to external repositories). Cheers. --Xavi 11:59, 27 December 2006 (EST)

And again, thanks for your oversight of newbie contributions. External images... I'll look into that. Better -- and safer from a standpoint of imagers not breaking in future -- is still to upload them here.

OLPC Colombia

Xavi, thanks a lot for helping me complement OLPC Colombia, i think that we have to help each other like latinoamericans in this proyect.--RafaelOrtiz 21:05, 29 December 2006 (EST)

Un placer! Creo que hay un montón de cosas sobre las cuales podemos trabajar juntos. Lo mio (por el momento) son estadisticas y otros aspectos no-informáticos. Una posible veta para explorar es ver a latinoamérica en su conjunto, no solo como países aislados... te prendes?

I'm assuming from your name and working area in the wiki that you're colombian (thus a native spanish speaker) if that's not the case, please let me know, and I'll swap languages! :) --Xavi 21:17, 29 December 2006 (EST)

Xavi me le pego de una vez, todo lo que pueda hacer lo hare, deberiamos crear una pagina especial para latinoamerica, con links de noticias y proyectos...?, ademas tambien me gustaria ayudar a organizar las paginas de paises como nepal y laos asi como nuevos paises que esten iniciando en el proyecto.--RafaelOrtiz 11:48, 30 December 2006 (EST)

Rafael, estoy totalmente de acuerdo con la 'zona latinoamericana'... y ya hubiera generado la página inicial, pero me cuesta encontrar el nombre correcto...

• OLPC Latin America - incluye a Brasil, que ya tiene suficiente coherencia interna como país, y la idea es (para mí) integrar a los países de habla castellana en el continente americano (todo bien con Brasil :)
• OLPC LA - son demasiadas letras (y nunca falta el que piense en Los Angeles ;)
• OLPC Hispanic America - por motivos 'ideológicos' no me gusta... :( aunque en cierto modo, creo que es el más 'correcto'

Tambien habia pensado en 'OLPC Sudaca' - que si bien para algunos es despectivo, también otorga identidad (aunque algo rebelde e irreverente... ;)

Por el momento voy a arrancar con OLPC Spanish America (cualquier cosa despues la movemos). Sugerencias o ideas? --Xavi 07:17, 31 December 2006 (EST)

• El nombre Spanish america me parece acertado, lastima lo de Brasil pero entiendo las razones y no hay lio, podriamos poner un mapa en la pagina con los paises involucrados o que tengan algun proceso en cuanto a este proyecto, tal vez un link a country status por ejemplo...

Por otro lado no se si tenemos soporte interwiki.. tu sabes si hay o lo has utilizado..? --RafaelOrtiz 03:50, 6 January 2007 (EST)

adminship

Xavi, I've made you a wiki admin; please use your newfound power for good -- be careful in banning users, and in protecting or deleting pages. Sj talk 17:58, 9 January 2007 (EST)

I'm flattered. Thanks! I'll use the new powers carefully.

BTW, is there a page (besides OLPCWiki:Community Portal and some other notes here and there) for admins to flock around and coordinate things?

I guess my days as careless contributor are over... now I'll have to watch over myself! :) --Xavi 08:51, 10 January 2007 (EST)

wixi?

Xavi, thanks for categorizing language methods.. please check wixi which wants to replace twext.. todo bien? gracias .. pd.. me puedes responder en mi talk page and feel free de borrar este pregunta..

Country Tables

'Afternoon, Xavi. Please email me at abrandi@laptop.org, I have some questions about the country reference tables you use for articles like OLPC Nigeria and Libya. Thanks :)

Skype much?

Hi Xavi, are you on skype? If so, drop me a line : metasj

Cheers, Sj

Writing to learn

Thanks for adding the category to Writing to learn, I was about to do it... Good luck, I will be back sometimes on this website ! Astirmays 18:39, 30 January 2007 (EST)

seti at home et al.

Firstly, the reference to Seti at home and other screensavers was inserted in an inappropriate place and the educational use of such things was not explained. It was ADVERTISING.

Secondly, Seti At Home and other screensavers don't work on computers that have no Internet connection. They also don't work on slow computers like OLPC laptops and they don't work on computers that are regularly shut down or put to sleep.

Thirdly, this background calculation software is in direct conflict with the OLPC's goal of low and controlled power consumption. Engineers have put a lot of effort into making the OLPC laptops consume less electricity than a commercial laptop.

OLPCities

Hi Xavi,

I just left a message on his talk page, but didn't ask him before diving in. I'm planning to delete some of those (now redirect) pages, because they really gum up the main namespace. Pages like keyboard and interface should not be about this random javascript nonsense, but rather about the actual laptop keyboard, and interface.

Over the next few days/weeks, I'm going to be trying to do a massive cleanup and reorganization of the wiki, deleting or merging lots of pages, and trying to put relevant information where regular people can find it. I have to talk to SJ and Nia about this a bit more, but I'll definitely be glad to hear your thoughts on what the organization should look like, etc. You've done an amazing job tending this wiki. Lord knows it needs a lot more serious attention than even one or two people can give.

--Jacobolus 20:46, 13 February 2007 (EST)

Totally agree on the redirects and the gumming up on the namespace. I was basically postponing it, afraid of messing up somebody's vision (especially after so much effort by User:Adamascj). But yes, the wiki needs a lot of work... again, a bit of a chicken myself to 'edit boldly' as the wiki-user-manual says...

Well, with some authority from SJ, Nia, and Walter, I'm going to hopefully be very bold in the next few days/weeks.

Some approaches I tried with more or less success / consistency were

• homogeneous structure (particularly I tried with some languages, alphabets and countries)

  Yes, and here the goal is going to be to *really* homogenize things as much as possible, including aligning wiki pages with a re-organized main website, and merging lots of individual wiki pages together

• the FAQ needs better organization and content (I doubt the reorganization into Ask OLPC ... about XXX by itself made a dent in the barrage of questions)

  No argument there. I'm not even going to worry about the FAQ at first though. I think once both laptop.org and the wiki have made useful content easy to find, a lot of the questions will be answered.

Areas that need plenty of work (imho) is content and related academic stuff... I find it hard to determine either structure or usability of some content. Not to mention the multi-language issues. Needless to say that I'm all ears to give a hand! :) --Xavi 21:43, 13 February 2007 (EST)

Yes, and hopefully SJ knows about that stuff, being the "director of content". Hopefully laptop.org itself can get a "content" section as well. --Jacobolus 21:58, 13 February 2007 (EST)

Pedagogical Ideas

Hi Xavi ! As you are the only person who was contact me, you are the only person that I think to ask a question. :-) Do you know if there is a person or a team is particulary interested in pedagogical ideas, educational ideas, etc. (all subjects about education) in OlpcWiki ? I would present him, her or them the OlpcProject:Educational ideas to take their commentaries. (Could you give me your commentaries ?) I would more implicate me but I would connect to ideas are already in this wiki and respect them. Can you help me ? Thanks -- Zyacat 17:51, 15 February 2007 (EST)

Low-level projects

It's a fine thing to add low-level projects to software projects (including bios- and firmware-related projects) -- some fall under more than one category. We should also have hardware projects, though there aren't many yet [the laptop design itself, firmware and mmx-specific projects perhaps, hand-chargers, school server design]. Sj talk 16:27, 21 February 2007 (EST)

API Links

Xavi, As you can see, I'm trying to figure out the Sugar API by tracing my way through the code. Can I help you by adding API links to the HIG? Thanks, -Jeff 16:51, 5 March 2007 (EST)

Xavi, I'm working on both linking the HIG to the APIs, and fleshing out the APIs. Can you help me build up a standard API Template for Python Packages & Modules? Thanks, -Jeff 14:14, 7 March 2007 (EST)

Translation to brazilian portuguese

Hi Xavi,

Thanks for you message about the portuguese translation of HIG. The structure you created for tranlations of documents is very nice. It makes my life much easyer when tranlating a document. I got the idea of how it works in a few minutes and started the translation of the HIG. Maybe could be a good idea to write a Guide to Translators article in the Community portal. Thanks for the help --Juliano

User Interface for the illiterate

Xavi, I just read Literacy_Programs, and the anonymous user had an interesting point. Can we develop a section of the sugar human user interface to help children become literate? A special mode that reads stories aloud while highlighting the text & a decent voice synthesizer? -Jeff 17:12, 7 March 2007 (EST)

translation hints

Hi Xavi,

Thanks for the translation hints. I really have some problems to understand some templates. But I'm using your spanish translation as a reference, and things are getting more clear to me.

Thanks

Juliano

Questions =

Hola, Xavi,

Thanks for the welcoming note - a couple of questions -

De vez en cuando están usando la palabra "portatil" en vez de usar "laptop." ¿Eso es a propósito o no? (o sea, ¿es variación local?)

Tambien - ¿Es "Una Laptop por Niño" o "Una Laptop por Chico"? Tambien estoy viendo las dos versiones.

Lo que me da un poco de lástima es que las dos palabras "Niño" y "Chico" inevitablemente tengan atribución masculina. Pero francamente no puedo pensar en otra palabra que no la tenga.

Thnx - let me know if there's somewhere else I should have asked questions.

Alec

Laptop vs. Portátil y Cosas de Género

Hola Xavi,

Originalmente de Venezuela, pero hace muchos años en EE.UU.(Boston, Seattle, Rhode Island)

Yo también prefiero ´laptop´.

Lo del género, me interesa lo que dices de que el asunto (o al menos la sensibilidad hacia el asunto) fuese importado de EE.UU. Te digo que desde niño en Venezuela me parecía una injusticia fundamental que un grupo de niñas se tuviesen que convertir en niños con la llegada de un chico.

Pero que se hace, son las injusticias del idioma.

¿Chic@? ¡Que forma de aprovecharse de la indefensa arroba, que ya tiene su rol en el internet!

(y te lo imaginas - "what the heck is a "Chickat"?)

No sé si hay solución, al menos dentro de los marcos de este proyecto. En serio son muchos años desde la última vez que pensé de esto.

Pero aún me entristece.

Y si existiera alguna solución práctica, (like ´child´), trataría de utilizarla.

Saludos desde New England, seguiré haciendo exploración por estos lados.

Alec

colors and translation

I'll try to sort through the css file for the wiki and make the default colors consistent with the logo colors where possible. Meanwhile, I am close to having the new translation system in place. A few more changes to the PO file and then I'll move it out of User:Felice.

regards.

-walter

Page deletion

Hi Xavi!

Thanks for all the things you've done for me, lil' French newbie. I have a question for you : Is it possible to delete a page from the Wiki ? Or to ask the OLPC Team for the deletion of a page ?

--EdX 17:59, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

RAE Online

Hola Xavi,

Pues fíjate que no me había dado cuenta que la RAE tenia el diccionario online.¡Que bien! A browsear se ha dicho.

Tambien, ¿está bien cambiar las páginas de ´portatil´a ´laptop´?

Tal vez valdría la pena construir una pagina de convenciones para la traducción. Asi el asunto es mas fácil.

ADM

wiki abuse

First we have User:Hunter and User:Bakersdz, who behave somewhat like bots. They are referenced from this spammy page, created by Special:Contributions/216.194.7.206. Then there is the junkbox page, which seems to tie those to "users" to the 216.194.0.0/18 address range that ARIN assigned to MetTel in New York. (addr 216.194.0.0 mask 255.255.192.0, covering the addresses from 216.194.0.0 to 216.194.63.255)

Then there is User:Php5 and his OLPC_Smartphone article, among others. Wow, I didn't know OLPC would release a smartphone with a 15.4" display (phone??? 15.4"???) by May 15th. That's only 2 months away, and it might even be non-x86? Either this is a shocking and well-kept secret, or somebody likes Photoshop. I think I recognize the phone as a leaked mock-up of Apple's iPhone. While I do often defend humor, IMHO it is really nasty to be misleading people like this.

Well, this is one time I'm glad to not be the admin. You get to sort this weirdness. :-)

AlbertCahalan 21:28, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Can someone please block Peter Griffin? He has caused some serious vandalism. —Lois Griffin 14:40, 31 May 2007 (EDT)

Oh, yeah? —Peter Griffin 14:43, 31 May 2007 (EDT)

Hi, I'm the Weirdness *^^*

hi, Xavi thanks for your kind-enough assistance.

and there is some misunderstanding about our works, I will delete all vague expressions such as OLPC_Smartphone article.

However, we are now making that OLPC smartphone prototype based on Openmoko and Chumby. Though i'm living in a third world, my country provides good mock-up facilities to every citizen.

Anyway, thanks again for your kindnesses.. - user:php5

Localization strings

Lovely! I've started putting localization pages under Localization... Sj talk 22:54, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

we may want to start renaming the po files before-the-hyphenation-gets-too-extreme. Sj talk

Update: see the po-file strings on Localization and the use of subpages for templates / tables. I will see about moving away from po files to something more suited for raw text translation -- we aren't doing standard software interfaces, so we aren't using many/most of the features built into gettext.... also: we're making po-string names in spanish; your proofreading is appreciated. Sj talk

Hola Xavi,

No puedo cambiar la web page pero que te parece en vez deÑ

La XO permite a los que aprender oportunidades que nunca han tenido. Herramientas como un navegador web, reproductores de multi-media, y lectores de e-books traen al alcance mundos enteros de conocimiento que de otro modo serían difícilmente o simplemente imposibles de acceder para los chicos.

cambiado a

La XO les da a los que aprenden oportunidades que nunca antes han tenido. Dándoles herramientas como un navegador web, reproductores para multi-media, y lectores de ebooks les da la oportunidad de ir a nuevos mundos de conocimiento a los cuales nunca antes hubieran podido llegar.

Dime si sirve, y si es así te envío otras revisiones.

Saludos de por aquí.

Alec en Rhode Island.

Cambios a la página

Okei, ya entiendo.

La página a la que me refiero es la que encontré aquí

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/News

Una de las noticias dice

2. laptop.org: We are using the wiki as our content management system and the infrastructure for translation is now in place. Thanks to the tireless efforts of Xavier Alvarez, the first translation of the new website is on line (See http://www.laptop.org/es).

Yendo a www.laptop.org/es, haz cliq en´chicos´y ' ya llegamos.

Resulta que no sabía lo de ir al PO. Ahora lo veo, lo único es que dice que comentarios y todo eso se deben hacer en la discussion page. Pero si me lo permiten, con gusto hago los cambios (y también con las otras traducciones, a las que les hace falta un poco de twikeo).

Si existe la palabra debugear, tiene que existir el verbo twikear.

Alec en RI

Ouch! cierto... que desastre... ya veo de corregirla :) BTW, la pagina en particular es PO-laptop.org-top-level-es, el 'indice' esta en PO-laptop.org-es... y twikea tranquilo, sera bienvenido! :) --Xavi 17:29, 1 April 2007 (EDT)

From Korean citizens

Frankly, I admire your efforts (including translation works). I also want to be an Xavi for the Korean language.

Thanks Xavi

I was somewhat embarrassed about how to translate the User Interface Guideline. I hoped restructure all the main page and subpages into Korean, but, maybe due to some php lines, it's not so easy as expected.

I'll follow your advice. thanks a lot..

Thank you for your advice about wiki category. If I was born smarter than as is, I would be a programmer. As not, I'm a fisher as well as part-time farmer now, however, in some sense, fortunate. There are some difficulties to express my intention rightly in wiki architecture, at which I'm a beginner, but some days later, I hope to express my intentions more smoothly. I have no talent like yours, in every sense, unfortunate.

Anyway, I have a question. Is Xavi a part of your name or just a nick?

your sincerely - php5

Welcome! I just don't want to be a nag or pest... I know how hard is to 'get used to other people's structures' so don't be afraid to ask (or tell me to shut up! :)

BTW, I've just noticed (check one of my last edits - that I'll save in a couple of minutes) that you are not preserving inter-HIG links for example:

       OLPC Human Interface Guidelines/The Laptop Experience#The_Frame
       should be 'translated' as
       OLPC Human Interface Guidelines/The Laptop Experience/lang-kr#The_Frame

I removed the |visualText for demonstration purposes, but obviously in the translation you should do as you are doing (showing a sensible text :) Note the addition of the /lang-kr... (but also note that if the link has an anchor (ie: #The_Frame the lang part goes before it, and thus by the translation pages structure and preserving the <div id="The Frame"></div> in the translation, internal wiki links are easily 'translated'... :)

My name is 'Xavier', 'Xavi' is just my nick-name / abbreviation... technically pronounced as a tchavi (basque origins)... Cheers, --Xavi 08:27, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

Hi, Xavi. Don't you sleep? You seem working day and night. Argentina is lucky to have a worker like you.

A few days ago, I sent a mail requesting a few B3 laptops of May distribution for Korean people, as there is no single machine in Korea. However, the reply said to fill application form in this wiki, developers' page, but I can't find it. Do you have any idea of where to find it, the application form? ...Cheers - php5

Do I sleep? Oh yes... :) Contrary to my bot-like editions, I'm a real person :)

As for the page you're looking for, check Developers program#How to apply... I think that's what you're looking for. Good luck trying to lay your hands on an XO!! --Xavi 00:07, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

ko or kr

Dear Xavi

A Korean volunteer suggested to change the current lang-kr abbreviation to lang-ko. kr means South Korea, and ko means both South and North Korea.

Though changing all krs to ko is troublesome, I think it's necessary action. So, would change Template:Hig-nav-lang to support ko rather than kr?

And, how do you think about inserting Template:Hig-nav-lang into all leftsidebar menues? I think it's very useful for our readers.

Sincerely... user:php5

Oops! Actually IANA's language registry kr is for the Kanuri language... not Korean language which is, as you say, ko.

I think I really messed it up there! I have no idea how I mixed them up! Worst of all, and as far as I can tell, I wrongfully corrected you! Arggghhhh!!! :(

Let me try to think about how we can fix this. In the meantime try to hold the creation of any new pages (editions of existing pages shouldn't pose any problems).

The language navigation bar (akin to Wikipedia's language bar you mean?) is, as far as I can tell, a whole different set of templates and extensions that I don't think are available on this wiki... the best I could come up with is the current set of templates. If you find a way to do it, please do tell! :)

BTW, the language codes are independent of country codes, although they happen to look quite similar.

Oh boy! let me think about my mess... :( BTW, good you noticed!!! :) --Xavi 08:39, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

Anyway, you must be a genius....Xavi.

Thanks~~ Xavi

If I know the wiki structure, I could have done the work myself...Thank you and sorry~~ ^^

---

Hi, Xavi

I'm translating some other pages in this wiki, and how to find the version information of a page? I searched related pages, but couldn't get a right answer, please let me know where the information is ... thanks~

There seems a kind of error in {{translation}} syntax in some pages. After I tried several times with the same phrase {{translation}}, it works.

Could check the page Ask_OLPC_a_Question_about_Software/Summary?

---user:php5

Problem

How can I change the default direction for the wiki page?. Arabic is read right to left and wiki keeps giving me the left to right direction. Is there a command available?

Thanks

Nalrawahi 15:17, 13 April 2007 (EDT)

The way to write in Arabic with a flow left to right in wiki

I found it, this is the way you can write in Arabic.

You can write this small tag with css style directive

<div div style="direction:rtl"></div>

This will work fine for Hebrew as well.

Nalrawahi 18:50, 13 April 2007 (EDT)

Translation in OLPC FAQ category itself

Hello..I think it desirable to write Category:OLPC FAQ/lang-ko for all Korean FAQ translation pages be together in a separate category rather than current OLPC FAQ category. If not, some days later, the category itself will be quite mixed of various language FAQ pages....

How do you think? let me know your opinion.. Sincerely -user:php5

---

I see...english rather than English.

---

Yes, those pages should be deleted.

OLPC 사용자 인터페이스 지침서,
OLPC 사용자 인터페이스 지침서/소개, and
OLPC 사용자 인터페이스 지침서/활동

Translator Meeting - sorry i missed

Hola, Xavi,

Sorry I missed it - I didn't quite click on the dates. Ojalá pueda participar en la próxima. Hope it was a good meeting.

Saludos desde RI

Alec

I see...Xavi, thank you for your advice

As always before, I will follow your advice.

I want to clear just one point. I'm not in the racing of who translates more than others, but because there are plenty of Korean pages not yet introduced here, regarding OLPC variation projects in Korea. However, before writing those Korean pages (and translating them into English), I think it is necessary for most pages here to be translated (even parts of them) into Korean.

The reason of translating even a part of any page is;

• to provide discussion pages for Korean language. The language barrier between Korean (and Japanese also) and English is higher than those among Latin oriented languages. Most Koreans hesitate to participate in English-driven sites, and it's the main reason of only a few Koreans participating open source communities.
• to provide summaries of all pages is better than full translation of only a few pages, if using the same labor hours.
• that for some pages, only their summaries are sufficient (particularly technical).

I hope your understanding about the situation I am in. First of all, those to-be-uploaded Korean pages are keenly related to OLPC projects, and I think it very much necessary step to translate most of the pages (or even their titles only) here into Korean before uploading those Korean pages (of course, the main audiences will be Koreans).

I always respect your opinions, and always thanks for your advices. php5 21:42, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

errors

There are some errors in page Software/translations, but I can't figure it out. Could you give me some help?

As far as I can tell, you are using the /translations page as the holder of what should go in /lang-ko (in other words, your text-to-translate). In /translations you should only have something like

[[Software|english]] | [[Software/lang-ko|koreanInKorean]]

Instead, you are dumping the text to translate into the /translations page and thus the framework goes bananas... you should review the translating pages; and also the Mesh Network Details failed translation (as well as Software). Cheers, --Xavi 23:52, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

Yes, I know the reason of this malfunction, but couldn't fix it. The text I dumped in /translations page can't be deleted? I have tried to fix it, but couldn't.

Question about posting list of open-source content repositories

Xavi, first I want to thank you for the great job on the wiki. Also want to thank you for cleaning up my articles. I see that removed my links to some open courseware sites on the OLPC_Courseware_Review article. I want to great a list of possible open courseware resources and rate them + indicate if their resources are actually open source. Is there another place I should put these or should I start a new entry? thanks --Bryan

Welcome :) As for removing links in OLPC Courseware Review, nope, that wasn't me (unless you consider removing the text '''hellomoto''' from my rollback to be a link, which I took as being from a 'careless curious contributor' ;)

The history of the page shows a lot of editions by unregistered editors (mainly from 66.30.117.127 but I have no idea who could that be... (guesswork by hostip.info puts it in Grass Valley, CA, UNITED STATES).

Bottom line, if you think the links should go there, please re-instate them! :) As for 'somewhere else', maybe I would check the Content projects and Content projects/websites/details pages (but check with User:Sj first though), once the list has been trimmed or reviewed or you cherry-pick them :) Cheers! --Xavi 03:11, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

-- Thanks Xavi, I was working on it late at night, maybe I never clicked Save

Suggestion about template:translations

Hi, Xavi

What do you think about a little modifying the design of translation box? In my opinion, I'm not sure whether Translation of xxxxxxxxx comment is necessary, without those comment, I think, most know it's translation box. In addition, if the background color of the translation box is more bright and thin, visualizing country names may be better. I'm feeling that currently the box is a little bit big and dark. Anyway, it's just an opinion. sincerely -- php5 23:34, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

Hi! Just a comment: Template:Translations (plural) is the one-liner bar in the original; Template:Translation (singular) is the two-liner that goes in each translation, and we are displaying language names, not countries.

I see your point about the Translation of... text, but although it was really reduntant originally (specially with just english | español) I think it's good to have an obvious and unequivocal reference to the original.

Color wise... I agree! It's a bit too dark for my taste. We (actually Walter) switched my olpc-green-variation I was using, to the arrow blue of the 'community' icon... which I thought of as a nice touch. Actually there are some ideas going on about 'coloring' the wiki based on the icon colors (although the choice of the 'children color' for traversed link is an unhappy one as I usually confuse it with the red-missing-link in the wiki itself :(

So, yes, let's try somethings out!  :)

If the bar in The OLPC Wiki is any indication, and translations expand into new languages, we may have to settle for a two-liner everywhere just for the language names (which would make the Template:Translation, three-liners—way too heavy). So maybe we could try to make it a bit more compact. How about:

    lang-0 | lang-1 | ... | lang-n    ...some white space...    original / diff

original would not be the current original link, just a link to the 'xxxxx' page. diff would still be what it's now. This would make it thinner (until we get the n-th language ;) The only thing is that now we may lose sight of when we are working in a translation or the original (I sometimes have that problem in that language is transparent)

Color, check the Sandbox color tests... I could probably vote for a blue-D :)

If you want to try it, go ahead, but I would recommend using the Template:Sandbox (not the original templates) for testing ideas, as we wouldn't want to break the template while doing tests on layouts, colors, whatever. Cheers, --Xavi 00:36, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

Xavi, aquí estoy disponiéndome a aportar sobre OLPC en Uruguay. Gracias por tu bienvenida y nos mantenemos en contacto.

Hi Xavi. thanks for your tireless interests on my works

(with some helps from fellows) I have already written a quantity of data for the table I uploaded, and I attached some comment on the page header.

First of all, I'm writing content for XO, and convinced of it being very very very helpful for children to learn how a society is organzed and operates.

Even if you disagree the usefulness of the content I will write on this wiki, please show me some tolerance. They must be very useful.

• All my efforts to deploy OLPC in Korea both educational sectors and other social sectors will be a reference model for other nations both developed and developing.

• All my content about how various social organizations operate will be valuable learning content for children. They will learn the mechanism of various social entities and will debug them.

I think XO hardware itself is useless without software, Sugar and actitivies. Even Sugar and activities are useless without learning content. All my activties are focused on those contents.

As I have humbel, but very stable job, a farmer, I will surely do it for the rest of my life.

Sincerely

Hi, Xavi. your design of Template:OLPC Korea is so impressive, and I'm very happy about it. It's really beautiful....thanks again

And, it needs some modification in Template:Translation/translation_of/lang-ko

I hope to see One Laptop per Child의 번역 rather than current ~의 번역 One Laptop per Child, reversed order without ~ mark. Somewaht curiously...word order in Korean is quite different from English, but Chinese and English are much similar to each other.

Welcome! I just couldn't stand the lack of padding... ;)

As for the korean text for Translation of/lang-ko be my guest, change it! Unfortunately the ordering is something I can't parameterize (rather haven't really found a way)... I sort of fear the moment when arabic and other left-to-right languages start popping up... :P So any previous experiences would be enlightning. How would it be written in korean? 'page-translationOf' instead of 'translationOf-page'? --Xavi 18:32, 26 April 2007 (EDT)

portales

That would be fun to try out. Especially if it's for regions and not for countries at first, it will help many people see and consider the same. More portals for organizing information would be a good thing; we haven't come close to having 'too many' engaging site maps. Sj talk 11:23, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

notice

hi Xavi , you have notice me about translation , by you havent any model for french , so if you can speack french i can understand U, but also it difficult for me to undestand you have fun ; if you like to change to translation , you can remplace en cour de traduction by translation | fr

Cordialement ikerc.

ok :) c'est tout simplement parcequ'au moins l'espagnol n'inverse pas le sens des mots comparé a l'anglais , et vu que je comprend le sens global des phrases espagnoles je préfère prendre cette traduction ... pour les mots espagnols que je ne connait pas je regarde l'anglais car j'ai eu beaucoups plus d'anglais a l'ecole :)

Cordialement ikerc Ikerc 12:41, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

sait tu si tout le monde peut se procurer un laptop ? :=) Ikerc 12:59, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

hi Xavi

I'll be busy in farming this week, so this wiki be full of peace and harmony for a while....Please don't be too delighted or plan a festival, cause I'll coming back next week. cheers php5 16:19, 7 May 2007 (EDT)

Hi, Xavi. it was quite a few days..and, now start again my olpc works. php5 21:43, 16 May 2007 (EDT)

Automated translation template?

Google provides automated translation from en -> es, pt, etc, and es/pt -> en. The google url for the translations are very regular. One could imagine every single en page linking to automated translations, and to its manual translation when that exists. And for non-en pages, links back to en. I wonder: how useful this would actually be? how easy technically? (could it simply be a template? part of the wiki layout?) Random thought. MitchellNCharity 12:27, 19 May 2007 (EDT)

This would be pretty neat. I have an email from Franz O @ Google about ways to be involved with their translation team... we could try to do the simplest possible thing and also look into future improvements. Sj talk 13:53, 25 May 2007 (EDT)

I already templated the Google links: Template:Google Translations... it's not pretty, nor very flexible. It would be nice to have some way of toggling specific languages on/off when there's a human translation available, but lack functionality (ie: #if ).

Integration at the wiki-layout level would require other things I guess... --Xavi 14:09, 25 May 2007 (EDT)

Arabic

Thanks for the notice, The link to Arabic page and the translation issue are fixed now, feel free to ask me for any Arabic translation related issue. --Khaled hosny 23:53, 22 May 2007 (EDT)

:) The word ترجمة should be in the the right of the name of the original page, I'm not an expert in mediawiki templates, but if you can, the template should be mirrored to the right when lang = ar --Khaled hosny 01:00, 23 May 2007 (EDT)

No problem at all, I'd like to help in this :) --Khaled hosny 10:13, 23 May 2007 (EDT)

I t is OK now, template:translation rtl behaves correctly regarding Arabic direction, thanks for your help :) --Khaled hosny 11:19, 23 May 2007 (EDT)

Coming back again

It's farming season now. From time to time, I'll be absent for 1~3 days. please don't miss me too much. cheers~ php5 19:35, 27 May 2007 (EDT)

When do translations push out to the web site?

Just curious, what's the timing usually on corrections, new versions, etc. being actually put out on the site?

I notice we still have errors like ¨los que aprender¨etc. on the main site.

Alec

Mi empleo ha estado algo fuerte estos dias, asi que no me has visto en un rato - dime donde valdría la pena hacer mas trabajo, si quieres.

Template Talk

Might we also want to include status and/or team members, like the Template:Status_boxstatus box template? Or does that make it too complicated?

Also: I've been thinking about how to create a task page template so that when you create a new task, instead of a blank page, you get an empty "task page" with the category template and basic organization included. I couldn't figure out how to do this, though...

--Lauren 12:40, 1 June 2007 (EDT)

Most definite... but, what do you mean by 'team member status'? battle front? theater? r&r? awol?... Hmmm, now that I think about it the OBX proposals page may hint that a 'full blown' sample should be added, when the intent is to have textual proposals (like, "I would like a template to describe team member status..." :) and then we can sandbox them there :) --Xavi 16:59, 10 July 2007 (EDT)

Portal:Education: There's a bug in one of the templates so the text goes below the box, not in it. I can't figure it out. Can you?

--Lauren 16:14, 10 July 2007 (EDT)

I'll take a look into it... :) --Xavi 16:59, 10 July 2007 (EDT)

YABS

I'd give you a barnstar if I believed in them :-) Do you have time for an IRC chat? Sj talk 18:02, 2 June 2007 (EDT)

Hi, Xavi

It's a long time..my busy farming works are done now.

Do you have any idea about how to get PO files for SUGAR and other Default Activities to be distributed this September?

If I want a Korean version of SUGAR, how can I write it? cheers.. php5 23:40, 5 June 2007 (EDT)

Somewhat difficult for me...How about rewriting the localization page into plain english? that is like the <www.laptop.org> po files. If you have any plan to rewrite the page, I will focus on other pages (Korean) for a while, and if not, then I should try to understand the page right now.... php5 00:01, 6 June 2007 (EDT)

Dear Xavi

It's been a long month.

I did farm works and repaired a traditional Korean house, peculiar to my province, Jeju Island. Pictures are in http://a0002.tistory.com. My face and body is well sun-tanned, darker than black..

Now I'm rewriting governmental functions of Korea, about 65,000 services. As many are repetitive organization to organization, total independent functions (services) are just 3,000 more or less. I think I can writing all those services using Python, which I'm learning now.

So, with just 5 to 7 years work, I alone can move all governmental services of Korea onto XO, really working modules, transparent like glass, anyone can participating in writing/modifying modules, world-first open source government.

Anyway, I received a B2 machine last month. It's beautiful..Felice said OLPC may send me 5 B4 machines next month. With those machines, I and my fellows will trip all the province of Korea (even North) to show and explain XO and OLPC project to Korean officers and teachers etc.

I hope, and believe there will be enormous demands for XO in Korea at the end of this year...

Sincerely php5 04:26, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

Localization

Dear Xavi.

How about rewrite Sugar i18n page into plain English for non-programmers?

I visited git://dev.laptop.org pages, but difficult to understand those developers' wiki, so posted a new on http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/1674 there. Anyway, I think it's the best way to rewrite http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Sugar_i18n page for SUGAR and Activities' localization by those withou programming background.

What do you think about it? php5 04:27, 11 June 2007 (EDT)

I agree that the instructions are a bit technical, although not impossible, they refer to the 'broad' concept of ensuring that whatever localization is present it will activate correctly (like the keyboard, the language preferences, etc). Localizing an activity means (afaik) that the developers have to do things in their work before it can be done—hopefuly your trac-report will nudge more developers to do so. Also, (afaik) using the wiki as the PO repository is not the usual way of doing things. Maybe Walter could chime in with his overall experience (good, bad, messy, etc). IOW, I wouldn't expect too many activity-POs in the wiki. Another page to take a look at is Customizing NAND images. --Xavi 10:19, 11 June 2007 (EDT)

Wanted page etc.

Hi, Xavi. I will fill those pages as soon as possible, and you may delete any orphaned pages related XO Korea. As you know, I can't delte those orphaned pages because of my not having permission. cheers php5 00:42, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

wiki art

Sounds good to me, although I'm not sure how much I can devote to it immediately. Once we get the art community up and running it'll be a lot easier to get that done. It might be a good starting project for the community, though, and a great way to make our work known to people in the other areas of the project. If you want to talk more in depth, feel free to hit my talk page or email me. --Nikki 00:21, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

Dear Xavi

One Korean Squeak user named Kim Seung-Beum (김 승범) has translated Squeak and Daemon's Castle into Korean. Do you know how to include Korean version of Squeak, Etoy, and Daemon's Castle into XO laptop?

New Translation Project

Here's a project to test out some of our new task and translation templates: MMM_lesson_plan_translations. Thoughts? Lauren 18:07, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

follow-up to User_talk:Lauren#Re:_New_Translation_Project

The idea is to translate the lesson plans linked to at the bottom of MMM_lesson_plan_translations (those listed under the "To Do" section header)-- so, local (OLPC) wiki page translations.

Once the lesson plans are translated, they will be embedded as Abiword files in the actual Activities. (I converted the Abiword files to wikitext for ease of use).

I'm pretty sure that the MMM Activities are available for download from their developer site. If you're curious, you can try running one of them to see what I mean.

In re: task template-- yes. Once the task is completed, the task tag should be removed.... I think. Do you think it would be a good idea to continue to tag completed tasks?

--Lauren 10:22, 21 June 2007 (EDT)

Construccionimo vs Constructivismo

Xavi, recibí tu mensaje del tema de las traducciones, gracias. Por otro lado, encontre en esta liga que no esta muy clara la diferencia entre construccionismo y constructivismo. [1] Este es un ejemplo entre otras muchas líneas "El proyecto OLPC puede ser mejor apreciado y aprovechado si tomamos en consideración una corriente llamada constructivismo." El constructivismo con V, lo desarrollo Piaget. Y , el construccionismo con N, lo desarrollo Papert. OLPC esta inspirado en el Construccionismo con N de Papert. Saludos.--Carla 14:02, 20 June 2007 (EDT)

Some Templates

follow-up to User_talk:Lauren#some_templates

I think that's a great idea. I've been working on an Educator template for educator user pages, but many of the section headers that are included in that template (school/affiliation, location, languages) would be better represented by user box templates (or parameters within those templates).

And you're right-- we should have user boxes for educators, artists, developers, translators, etc. That would be a wonderful addition!

--Lauren 10:45, 21 June 2007 (EDT)

Just now thinking about what a "lesson plan" box would look like, with subject, age range, contributors, etc. that would auto-categorize the lesson plan for ease-of-use. Like for this page: Slider_Puzzle:_Lesson_1. What do you think?

--Lauren 14:46, 3 July 2007 (EDT)

Yes. My primary concern right now is that each lesson plan get categorized as a lesson plan, and to a lesser extent, by contributing org, subject/skill, and grade level. V. similar to the educator template, you're right.

Dear Xavi

We work here to establish an environment where worldwide children share experiences and collaborate each other. So, it will be good for us to have a page where we can share experiences and collaborate to deploy XO in each of our countries. Could you do that? This is my sample php5 23:40, 1 July 2007 (EDT)

re Babel-XO

Talk:Wiki_Page_Restructuring_Common_Room#Babel-XO_design_converstation

French team organization

Hi Xavi,

Thanks for your advice. I've tried to set up a page to track work being done. Could you "validate" it ? Isn't it misplaced ? That's here : Translating/French Organization

SamuelB 09:56, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

Thanks for the wiki help!

Xavi,

Thanks for catching the Volunteer frontpage goof! I'm trying to get more into the happy swarm of info that is this wiki (and will start monitoring the Recent Changes log, as well) and would like to help with Xoxo, if you'd like another hand. Can probably help SJ in updating goings-on around 1 Cambridge Center, at least for the content crew. What should I know about writing updates, if anything?

I also like the thoughts on User_talk:Sj/xoxo. The idea of making a "newsy" interface for viewing wiki updates is very powerful. I'd like to talk with you about developing that sometime (possibly in conjuction with the Knight News Challenge) especially since the volunteer base is going to explode in size very soon and we'll need some way for people to stay up to date.

Ping me on irc sometime, nick mchua.

follow up to [[User_talk:Mchua&redirect=no#RE:_Thanks_for_the_wiki_help.21

Sweet! I'll see what I can do about getting a 1cc update meme started (clear a section of the whiteboard and start writing down things that happen, transcribing them every day to Xoxo). Looking forward to the parser! (I am amazed at how much you do for OLPC in your "free time," given that you have off-olpc duties as well. Really, really impressive. Thank you for doing so much!

Dear Xavi

I have tried to make a thinner version of {{Translation}}, but couldn't. Could you make me a One Line template rather than current Two Line one. Because all Korean pages have {Korean} template, there are two large template section in each page if current Two Line {Translation} template is included.

Well, that's not very logical... not using {{Translation}} nullifies the use of {{Translations}}... If the issues are cosmetic we can try to work them out, but dropping the use is also dropping the automatic categorization, and making the korean pages dead ends... (in respect to traversing the available languages).

I think 원문: or Original: tap is 'unnecessary because link to the original page is displayed automatically above the {{Translations}} template such as seen in XO_map/lang-ko page.

Besides the links to translated pages, the template provides three links:

• a link to the source or original page (ie: the "Translation of [[Foo]])
• a link to the version of the orginal page that was translated (ie: the page [[Foo]] as it looked when translated (could be different to the current state).
• a link to the changes between the source/current and the version/last-sync

True, I don't think I've ever used the version link but I don't think they are redundant, maybe unneeded.

Btw, I am now experimenting a different Translation activity. As XO communities in each nation will surely localize all activities and content of OLPC, I think it's desirable to write new localized pages based on content in original pages rather than just translating them. For example, I wrote a new XO_map/lang-ko based on XO_map rather than translating it, that is, localized and more content than original page. Of course, the entire content of original pages should be included in translated(?) pages also, but in rather a smooth way. cheers php5 03:34, 13 July 2007 (EDT) (* why don't you say me cheers?)

Mmmm... I don't think I like the twist.

I mean, I could be biased, but reusing {{Translations}} as some sort of 'local interest' navigation is a whole different story. For starters, the pseudo-translated page is still in english—not something I would expect following a language link (not to mention the dead-end); then it's just copy-paste of the original version, plus only some additional text; and finally, I think that whatever content is relevant to Korea (or wherever), should go in the original page, and only if it grows organically we can think about making a specific page. Currently a problem in the wiki is the dispersal of information: too many pages with tiny bits of information...

For example, it had been a while that I had stopped patrolling /lang-ko editions assuming that they were just translations into korean (a language I can't read), and I assumed that the use of the templates was not a problem anymore. So I basically skipped those pages. I assume that most other people are like me, we don't go to a 'page translated into a language we know nothing about' to find new stuff, we stick to the languages we know (languages, not countries—that have their own page/s).

For me, that's another part of what I understand the role of a translator is: bi-directional. If the translated version is augmented somehow, the original should be augmented too.

Creating 'islands' goes against of what I understand is the spirit of the project...

We should try to chat (ie: IRC) this so we can work out how to make things better :) --Xavi 11:42, 13 July 2007 (EDT)

Yeah...I see what you mean. First of all, in the case of Korean pages, all localized content for Korea is written in English only and the Korean language is only for translating purpose, so there is no content written in Korean without matching English content written by OLPC or other OLPC contributors (not by me). Anyway, I think we may have two options in our translation works.

Firstly, just translating One English page to exactly the same One Korean page etc. If any Korean user add some Korean content on those Korean-translated page, then re-translate it back to the original English page. So, all regional versions will have the same content. I'm not sure whether it is possible and even desirable.

Second option is that regional pages have two kinds of content; one is the same as original pages, and the other is localized. That means, if any Korean add Korean content on the Korean-translated pages, there is no need to translate the new Korean addition to English to keep the same content in both. I'm now thinking about how to display original content and localized content differently in a given Korean page (maybe using different color or fonts etc.). Then we all will know that all regional pages have both the original content of matching English pages and their own content. One of some problems related this option is that no one knows the entire content in this wiki and what is going on regional pages. In this case, {Translations} template had better be renamed as {L10n} template.

Frankly, I prefer the second option; local page with both full-translated and additional localized content. In this case, translated pages will be normally longer (more KBs) than original, but never shorter. What do you think? cheersphp5 19:27, 13 July 2007 (EDT)

* OLPC said that they would send me a few B4 XO laptops, and I'm waiting for them day and night for my presentation tours in the entire Korea..to meet maybe thousands of people for 2~3 months from now. Because my presentations assume audiences with various backgrounds (teachers, public officers, NGOs, politicians, parents' association, various corporations, and even extreme communists in North Korea), I'm try to write as various kinds of content as those people before I'll meet them. Have those B4 already arrived in Argentina?

I hope to see your picture in your user page. How aboutphp5 19:27, 13 July 2007 (EDT)

I forgot a third option. that is a variation of First option + Second option above. Currently I'm trying the third option; Full translation + localized Korean content + re-translating the new Korean content back to English + DO NOT add those new localized content in English onto the original English pages.

Well for me translating is region/country-less... when I translate into spanish I do it not for argentina, but for all spanish speakers (be them in argentina, mexico... well, not necessarily spain, they speak too non-neutral ;) So the way I think about a translation is that you are just expressing or bringing ideas and things into another language, not a country or region. So I would oppose in using {{Translation}} for that purpose. As for a theoretical new {{l10n}} template, I wouldn't mind (but I thought that was what {{Korean}} was about).

I personally don't recall any changes in a translated page that ended in the original... although it would make sense that if as a translator you 'bridge the gap' in one way, you should be able to bridge it the other way. This doesn't mean that I think that translated pages can only be exact translations... but I do have the hope that whatever the non-english speaking communities have to say, I'll be able to read about and learn from.

I don't think there's a policy or anything of sorts about regional things, but I think that valid solution is to keep local things independent from translations and link to the wiki (be it the translated pages or the originals). For example, OLPC Spanish America tries to do that, isolating the local/regional issues, and linking into the main wiki. I think that is more modular and less messy, because a translated page only has one concern: presenting the idea; while a local community page deals only with the interpretation of the idea—this could be just the talk page of the translation ;)

My picture? probably when I get my B4 :) --Xavi 20:10, 13 July 2007 (EDT)

I see what you mean, and try to follow your request as was before. I'll include all region where people using Korean, a region in China, Japan, and the USA.

Anyway, I'm a royal Xavist. cheers php5 05:15, 16 July 2007 (EDT)

(not so) Dear Xavi

Of course I understood what you mean. I'll do full translation, and do not add any addtional content on translated pages. Then, what do you think about attaching only {Korean} template to pages translated into Korean? cheersphp5 20:02, 16 July 2007 (EDT)

(again) Dear, Xavi. do you have any idea how to connect a B4 machine to the web? I just received one...amazing..but, couldn't make internet connection, I'm using dsl modem, maybe 2~3Mbps.

LOGO/lang-ko (which I picked more or less at random, and is not translated), is a literal copy of the english version, except that it uses {{Korean}} instead of {{Translations}}. The only incoming links to that page are from the inclusion of LOGO/translations... but once in it, I'm stuck! I can't navigate to other languages/translations!

I haven't thought about if the {{Korean}} template should be included or not in the pages translated into Korean... what I'm saying is that language-based navigation is curtailed by not including the {{Translation}} in those pages. Still I think that mixing 'language' with 'country' is not necessarily a good thing to do. Maybe I'm biased towards Spanish & English that cover many different countries and sooner or later, what goes for one place doesn't necessarily fly in another... Still, I find it very confusing that the headers in that template match some of the root pages of the wiki, but they point to totally different things... even concepts ie: XO_Korea/Hardware vs. Hardware specification or even Hardware specification/lang-ko...

I did some queries and it appears that there are 39 pages that follow the /lang-ko translating convention but don't have the {{Translation}} template in them:

Activity Grid/lang-ko, Art Wanted/lang-ko, Constructionist learning activity/lang-ko, Content repository/lang-ko, Content repository/Template/lang-ko, Content stamping/lang-ko, Draw/lang-ko, Editor Musical/lang-ko, Education networks/lang-ko, Education projects/lang-ko, Educational activity ideas/lang-ko, Educational content ideas/lang-ko, Educational content ideas/language learning/lang-ko, Educational organization template/lang-ko, Educators/lang-ko, Educators/Roll Call/lang-ko, Embedded controller/lang-ko, FACIL/lang-ko, Helix media activity/lang-ko, How-tos/lang-ko, Kuku/lang-ko, Learning activities/School Census/lang-ko, Literature/lang-ko, LOGO/lang-ko, LSI/lang-ko, OBX proposals/lang-ko, Our Stories/lang-ko, Participate/Help/lang-ko, Participate/lang-ko, Read/lang-ko, Requirements/lang-ko, School partnerships/lang-ko, School server/School district networks/lang-ko, Stopwatch/lang-ko, TamTam:Development Tasks/lang-ko, Tests/100 laptops/lang-ko, The Theft Problem/lang-ko, Video/lang-ko, WiXi/lang-ko,

I'll be first to say that the current 'framework' is not the best (we should explore the new language features recently enabled in the wiki), but it's what we have right now. If you have any suggestions on how to make it better, please let's discuss them. But if each language starts doing things differently, then coordination and collaboration becomes way too difficult and time consuming—not to mention that this lack of homogeneity makes any volunteer's learning curve much steeper and we would all lose in the end! --Xavi 22:28, 16 July 2007 (EDT)

I fully understand. thank you php5 22:48, 16 July 2007 (EDT)